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DB Cooper

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10 hours ago, Slim King said:

Tina convinced him it was better going out the back and he agreed. 

Why the hell would a 22 year old stewardess give a crap about what exit he jumped out of?

When did this conversation take place? There is not a single shred of evidence anywhere that this conversation occurred. You don't get to just make stuff up. 

While they were on the ground in Seattle and after Flo and Alice left, Cooper and Tina had a conversation about the Beatles while they smoked a joint together. He asked her who her favorite Beatle was. She said she liked George because he was the quiet one and all the other girls loved Paul and John. Cooper said he was more a Rolling Stones guy. 

Don't ask me where I learned about this conversation, but it totally, totally happened. 

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3 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Why the hell would a 22 year old stewardess give a crap about what exit he jumped out of?

When did this conversation take place? There is not a single shred of evidence anywhere that this conversation occurred. You don't get to just make stuff up. 

While they were on the ground in Seattle and after Flo and Alice left, Cooper and Tina had a conversation about the Beatles while they smoked a joint together. He asked her who her favorite Beatle was. She said she liked George because he was the quiet one and all the other girls loved Paul and John. Cooper said he was more a Rolling Stones guy. 

Don't ask me where I learned about this conversation, but it totally, totally happened. 

It is claimed in the Reca tapes...

Of course there is no evidence for any of the Reca narrative... in fact the evidence decimates the Reca narrative. It is a story made up by Carl Laurin feeding Walter Reca information, but Carl was a terrible researcher and got most of the facts wrong.

We have wasted too much time already on the Reca scam..

Slim King is just a Reca shill...  he can't even get the Reca story right.

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5 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It is claimed in the Reca tapes...

Of course there is no evidence for any of the Reca narrative... in fact the evidence decimates the Reca narrative. It is a story made up by Carl Laurin feeding Walter Reca information, but Carl was a terrible researcher and got most of the facts wrong.

We have wasted too much time already on the Reca scam..

Slim King is just a Reca shill...  he can't even get the Reca story right.

He's literally the worst suspect that has ever been given a shred of publicity. 

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10 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

He's literally the worst suspect that has ever been given a shred of publicity. 

Absolutely,

Notice they have no evidence, just unsubstantiated claims...

If you have the displeasure of listening to the Carl/Walter tapes,, Carl gives Walter the answers in the questions... and they still get most of the facts wrong.

IMO, Carl pulled a scam... 

 

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13 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Ulis did a video and he screws up the "negotiable American Currency" argument..

Ulis argued that anybody could say uncirculated or negotiable and it does not indicate a Canadian...

Of course that is true but he doesn't understand the actual argument is based on the use of the qualifier "American" and "US".

The pilots said "American currency" and Tina said Cooper later told her "US Currency"..  the argument has nothing to with "uncirculated" or "negotiable"..

The real argument..

A person who was always in the US and only ever dealt with US money would not qualify the ransom money with "American" and "US".. they would just say currency or money. Imagine somebody who has never left the US going into a bank and asking for American or US money.. It doesn't make sense, there is no reason to qualify the money.

Since Cooper used the qualifier "American" and" US" for the currency that strongly suggests he had spent time outside the US recently... He could be a foreigner or an American who spent a lot of time outside the US.

Basically, Cooper had an international aspect to his life...

This deserves a deep dive. 

ATC logs

3:07: "wants money in negotiable American currency, denomination of bills not important."

Crew notes written by Flo:

Page 1: "man with briefcase with a bomb - request $200,000 by 1700" (no qualifier)

Page 4: "wants money in negotiable currency." (perhaps just writing down what she heard Bill say)

Page 5: "he request fuel truck, $200,000" (no qualifier)

Flo's 11/24/71 statement:

"She said that the man dictated the following request to her: "I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash."

Tina 11/24/71:

1) "The note further indicated that he had a bomb and wanted $200,000.00" (no qualifier)

2) Schaffner at that time on a plain envelope wrote out the demands of the hijacker, listening that he wanted four parachutes including two back packs and two chest packs, $200,000 in cash in small bills and he wanted this all by five o'clock."

Alice 11/24/71:

"She stated that the hijacker handed another stewardess on board the flight by the name of Florence a ransom note demanding $200,000 in cash."

Rataczak 11/24/71: 

"Hostess Florence Schaffner brought a note on what appeared to be a standard 6 x 9 tablet written with a felt pen as well as an envelope that had notations also containing the figure $200,000." (no qualifier)

Tina 12/1/71:

"He later told Tina that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U.S. currency."

My take: 

I found many different instances in the 302's where the phrase "U.S. currency" was used by the FBI to describe money they found in a car or seized as evidence in a case or money they were sending for lab tests. There is a possibility that the "U.S. currency" used in the 302 of Tina's 12/1/71 is just FBI lingo. 

Given the number of hijackings that were occurring in the previous few years where hijackers were wanting to be taken overseas, perhaps Bill was just being specific when he said "American currency". All indications are that the ransom note simply said "$200,000 in cash". Seeing the term "cash" on the note, I think it's possible that Bill understood that he was dealing with someone who wanted dollars and not Cuban pesos or whatever. 

Personally I think there is too much variation in terminology to determine what Cooper actually said. The only agreement at all between any of these statements is that the note apparently said "$200,000 in cash". 

To me it's akin to people wanting to claim he was a pilot or flight attendant because the term "crew meals" appears in the 302's. Bill also uses the term "meals" in the ATC transcript.  

Edited by olemisscub

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28 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

This deserves a deep dive. 

ATC logs

3:07: "wants money in negotiable American currency, denomination of bills not important."

Crew notes written by Flo:

Page 1: "man with briefcase with a bomb - request $200,000 by 1700" (no qualifier)

Page 4: "wants money in negotiable currency." (perhaps just writing down what she heard Bill say)

Page 5: "he request fuel truck, $200,000" (no qualifier)

Flo's 11/24/71 statement:

"She said that the man dictated the following request to her: "I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash."

Tina 11/24/71:

1) "The note further indicated that he had a bomb and wanted $200,000.00" (no qualifier)

2) Schaffner at that time on a plain envelope wrote out the demands of the hijacker, listening that he wanted four parachutes including two back packs and two chest packs, $200,000 in cash in small bills and he wanted this all by five o'clock."

Alice 11/24/71:

"She stated that the hijacker handed another stewardess on board the flight by the name of Florence a ransom note demanding $200,000 in cash."

Rataczak 11/24/71: 

"Hostess Florence Schaffner brought a note on what appeared to be a standard 6 x 9 tablet written with a felt pen as well as an envelope that had notations also containing the figure $200,000." (no qualifier)

Tina 12/1/71:

"He later told Tina that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U.S. currency."

My take: 

I found many different instances in the 302's where the phrase "U.S. currency" was used by the FBI to describe money they found in a car or seized as evidence in a case or money they were sending for lab tests. There is a possibility that the "U.S. currency" used in the 302 of Tina's 12/1/71 is just FBI lingo. 

Given the number of hijackings that were occurring in the previous few years where hijackers were wanting to be taken overseas, perhaps Bill was just being specific when he said "American currency". All indications are that the ransom note simply said "$200,000 in cash". Seeing the term "cash" on the note, I think it's possible that Bill understood that he was dealing with someone who wanted dollars and not Cuban pesos or whatever. 

Personally I think there is too much variation in terminology to determine what Cooper actually said. The only agreement at all between any of these statements is that the note apparently said "$200,000 in cash". 

To me it's akin to people wanting to claim he was a pilot or flight attendant because the term "crew meals" appears in the 302's. Bill also uses the term "meals" in the ATC transcript.  

Agreed, can't really conclude either way.  This could have been cleared up in 1971 and pretty much any point in time from then to possibly even today as both key witnesses are still alive.  A simple follow up question to Tina or Flow, " Did the hijacker say negotiable/circulated American currency or did he just ask for $200k in cash?"  Even if they both said, not sure/can't remember, we'd at least be where we are today lol.  

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43 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

This deserves a deep dive. 

ATC logs

3:07: "wants money in negotiable American currency, denomination of bills not important."

Crew notes written by Flo:

Page 1: "man with briefcase with a bomb - request $200,000 by 1700" (no qualifier)

Page 4: "wants money in negotiable currency." (perhaps just writing down what she heard Bill say)

Page 5: "he request fuel truck, $200,000" (no qualifier)

Flo's 11/24/71 statement:

"She said that the man dictated the following request to her: "I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash."

Tina 11/24/71:

1) "The note further indicated that he had a bomb and wanted $200,000.00" (no qualifier)

2) Schaffner at that time on a plain envelope wrote out the demands of the hijacker, listening that he wanted four parachutes including two back packs and two chest packs, $200,000 in cash in small bills and he wanted this all by five o'clock."

Alice 11/24/71:

"She stated that the hijacker handed another stewardess on board the flight by the name of Florence a ransom note demanding $200,000 in cash."

Rataczak 11/24/71: 

"Hostess Florence Schaffner brought a note on what appeared to be a standard 6 x 9 tablet written with a felt pen as well as an envelope that had notations also containing the figure $200,000." (no qualifier)

Tina 12/1/71:

"He later told Tina that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U.S. currency."

My take: 

I found many different instances in the 302's where the phrase "U.S. currency" was used by the FBI to describe money they found in a car or seized as evidence in a case or money they were sending for lab tests. There is a possibility that the "U.S. currency" used in the 302 of Tina's 12/1/71 is just FBI lingo. 

Given the number of hijackings that were occurring in the previous few years where hijackers were wanting to be taken overseas, perhaps Bill was just being specific when he said "American currency". All indications are that the ransom note simply said "$200,000 in cash". Seeing the term "cash" on the note, I think it's possible that Bill understood that he was dealing with someone who wanted dollars and not Cuban pesos or whatever. 

Personally I think there is too much variation in terminology to determine what Cooper actually said. The only agreement at all between any of these statements is that the note apparently said "$200,000 in cash". 

To me it's akin to people wanting to claim he was a pilot or flight attendant because the term "crew meals" appears in the 302's. Bill also uses the term "meals" in the ATC transcript.  

I disagree, the FBI finding money in a car is a specific identification of the item which could be foreign.. 

Not the same as demanding American/US currency.

So, there is no doubt that for somebody who has never left the US or been exposed to non US currency to qualify a demand as American/US would be extremely odd and rare...

So, do people at a bank normally ask for American/US currency... not unless there is a foreign context.. imagine a bank robber in the US asking for American money, it just doesn't make sense.

But, this turns on whether Cooper actually asked for American/US currency..

ATC,, "American" was used,, why would it be added by the pilot if Cooper didn't use it.. possible but unlikely.. It would still be odd to add it to the demand. The Mexico demand had NOT happened yet. 

But Tina also said he later told her US currency,, that IMO is the corroboration that makes it very likely Cooper did qualify the money and has an international context.

And Cooper later demanded to go to Mexico, another international element..

Like many things in this case it isn't proof, but it indicates...

I am Canadian and deal with both US and Canadian currency all the time... I never refer to Canadian currency as Canadian currency in Canada (unless it is in a foreign context) but always refer to American currency as American/US..  

Edited by FLYJACK

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Here's one issue I've got with it. There's no indication that he said anything about "American/U.S. currency" to Flo. She just wrote down what he said, which was "$200,000 in cash", and walked it to the cockpit. So to go from "$200,000 in cash" to "American/U.S. currency" means that at some point Cooper must have turned to Tina and said something like "oh I forgot to mention that I want this money in circulated U.S. currency, call up to the cockpit and tell them that." 

Did that happen? Maybe. Maybe not. 

As an attorney I'm pretty good at arguing both sides of an argument. I could easily argue FlyJack's side on this as well.

This isn't an opinion I'm married to. It just seems like an odd thing to say. Seems to me that there would be no need to specify the nationality of the currency unless you were asking for something different from the country you are in i.e. the scenario of a Cuban hijacking an American plane in American airspace and asking for pesos. It seems like an unnecessary qualifier for Cooper to make and to me almost sounds like Rat being ultra-specific. I think anyone who has seen Rat interviewed could see him doing that. 

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1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Here's one issue I've got with it. There's no indication that he said anything about "American/U.S. currency" to Flo. She just wrote down what he said, which was "$200,000 in cash", and walked it to the cockpit. So to go from "$200,000 in cash" to "American/U.S. currency" means that at some point Cooper must have turned to Tina and said something like "oh I forgot to mention that I want this money in circulated U.S. currency, call up to the cockpit and tell them that." 

Did that happen? Maybe. Maybe not. 

As an attorney I'm pretty good at arguing both sides of an argument. I could easily argue FlyJack's side on this as well.

This isn't an opinion I'm married to. It just seems like an odd thing to say. Seems to me that there would be no need to specify the nationality of the currency unless you were asking for something different from the country you are in i.e. the scenario of a Cuban hijacking an American plane in American airspace and asking for pesos. It seems like an unnecessary qualifier for Cooper to make and to me almost sounds like Rat being ultra-specific. I think anyone who has seen Rat interviewed could see him doing that. 

One researcher went so far as as to assign Cooper to Saskatchewan, because of US American currency ! Cooper never mentioned Saskatchewan. He did mention Mexico and the FBI's profile based on interviews of crew includes the possibility he is Latin. There is lots of over-reach and over-thinking that went on in the case. People trying to cover many bases ... against an uncertain and incomplete knowledge base namely Cooper himself and what he wanted and would do ... including an FAA Psychiatrist issuing wild assertions about what Cooper was going to do! .

As a practical matter, First Ntl's emergency fund was only in US currency, not Pesos or Canadian. So the issue was mute, in any event. Anyone who thought otherwise was revealing a lack of basic knowledge about the options available at the time. The Cooper case has its share of authority driven bad scripts being read by people! 

Edited by georger

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7 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Here's one issue I've got with it. There's no indication that he said anything about "American/U.S. currency" to Flo. She just wrote down what he said, which was "$200,000 in cash", and walked it to the cockpit. So to go from "$200,000 in cash" to "American/U.S. currency" means that at some point Cooper must have turned to Tina and said something like "oh I forgot to mention that I want this money in circulated U.S. currency, call up to the cockpit and tell them that." 

Did that happen? Maybe. Maybe not. 

As an attorney I'm pretty good at arguing both sides of an argument. I could easily argue FlyJack's side on this as well.

This isn't an opinion I'm married to. It just seems like an odd thing to say. Seems to me that there would be no need to specify the nationality of the currency unless you were asking for something different from the country you are in i.e. the scenario of a Cuban hijacking an American plane in American airspace and asking for pesos. It seems like an unnecessary qualifier for Cooper to make and to me almost sounds like Rat being ultra-specific. I think anyone who has seen Rat interviewed could see him doing that. 

I get it,, my point was that the argument wasn't about negotiable/uncirculated.

This turns on whether Cooper actually said it.. IMO, it is more likely that he did..

I just can't see both the pilot and Tina adding it... one adding it would be odd.

I also believe Cooper initially wanted to go to Mexico.. and he had military aviation experience overseas..

It may just be that he was recently in Vietnam...

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34 minutes ago, georger said:

One researcher went so far as as to assign Cooper to Saskatchewan, because of US American currency ! Cooper never mentioned Saskatchewan. He did mention Mexico and the FBI's profile based on interviews of crew includes the possibility he is Latin. There is lots of over-reach and over-thinking that went on in the case. People trying to cover many bases ... against an uncertain and incomplete knowledge base namely Cooper himself and what he wanted and would do ... including an FAA Psychiatrist issuing wild assertions about what Cooper was going to do! .

As a practical matter, First Ntl's emergency fund was only in US currency, not Pesos or Canadian. So the issue was mute, in any event. Anyone who thought otherwise was revealing a lack of basic knowledge about the options available at the time. The Cooper case has its share of authority driven bad scripts being read by people! 

I believe that was Manitoba based on french speaking with no accent.. and the Dan Cooper comic.

But Maillardville outside of Vancouver BC was a blue collar ex-military french Canadian community of mostly people that spoke english without an accent.

I looked into this and concluded just no evidence..

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4 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

I also believe Cooper initially wanted to go to Mexico.

You'll need to explain to me how you reached this conclusion. I understand the whole "go to Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico" bit. But to go from "I legitimately want to go to Mexico City" to "I'm going to jump out of this aircraft north of Portland" seems quite incongruent. 

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

I get it,, my point was that the argument wasn't about negotiable/uncirculated.

This turns on whether Cooper actually said it.. IMO, it is more likely that he did..

I just can't see both the pilot and Tina adding it... one adding it would be odd.

I also believe Cooper initially wanted to go to Mexico.. and he had military aviation experience overseas..

It may just be that he was recently in Vietnam...

If Cooper said negotiable/uncirculated American, then he is revealing he is a foreigner and out of touch with what any bank can even provide "by 5:00PM" on the spur of the moment ... much less what they will provide! He might as well be asking that the money be delivered "in a Cadillac pink in color" ... to be dropped from the 727 with him in it! How far do we stretched this?   Negotiable/uncirculated delivered in a canoe?  It doesnt matter what he WANTS - it only matters what he can get and what is available to get. He seems completely out of touch with how you conduct a hijacking and ask for money.  

He's a guy from some village in Mexico and hyjacking/burglary is all new to him. But he knows how to build a convincing fake bomb! He actually thinks the Americans can and wil give him ' negotiable/uncirculated. American currency'. Just never mind what the banks or the FBI actually can do or can deliver! That is irrelevant to Cooper. :$ 

World to Cooper!  negotiable.  Bills are negotiable by definition!  You dont have to ask for it!   uncirculated.   You mean NEW bills never used before? That is what uncirculated means in English!  You arent going to get uncirculated.  You can only get used bills. So sir, go back to your village and rethink what you are going to ask for, and HOW to ask for it - non English speaker/thinker.  Beuno!? 

If DB Cooper said: negotiable/uncirculated American currency, then Cooper's thought process is distinctly not standard American English or even Canadian English. Cooper's semantics and thought process are from some other language no matter what his socalled 'accident' is. Or, Cooper never said:  negotiable/uncirculated American currency. 

Edited by georger

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35 minutes ago, georger said:

 

If DB Cooper said: negotiable/uncirculated American currency, then Cooper's thought process is distinctly not standard American English or even Canadian English. Cooper's semantics and thought process are from some other language no matter what his socalled 'accident' is. Or, Cooper never said:  negotiable/uncirculated American currency. 

U.S Currency is very law "enforcementy". I see it quite often. This is from a current client of mine's indictment:

 

currency.png

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5 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

U.S Currency is very law "enforcementy". I see it quite often. This is from a current client of mine's indictment:

 

currency.png

That isn't the same context..

Law enforcement requires a precise legal description for the evidence..

Demanding ransom cash using American/US as a qualifier is a different ballgame.

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I don't work in business or finance, is "negotiable currency" or "negotiable American currency" a valid or frequently used term ?  Doing quick internet searches doesn't return too much.  I see "negotiable instruments" in most of the search returns where things like checks, money orders are listed as examples. But why would he want something like that ?  Is there any benefit in terms of easier redemption ?  I would think that those items are easier to trace.   If the hijacker used the word negotiable, it wouldn't seem incidental.  There would have been some intent behind it, maybe it applies more if you are leaving the country...I don't know.

The phrase "circulated currency" seems more logical as it would help passing the money a little easier or conversely make spotting the bills more difficult for those searching for them.

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47 minutes ago, georger said:

If Cooper said negotiable/uncirculated American, then he is revealing he is a foreigner and out of touch with what any bank can even provide "by 5:00PM" on the spur of the moment ... much less what they will provide! He might as well be asking that the money be delivered "in a Cadillac pink in color" ... to be dropped from the 727 with him in it! How far do we stretched this?   Negotiable/uncirculated delivered in a canoe?  It doesnt matter what he WANTS - it only matters what he can get and what is available to get. He seems completely out of touch with how you conduct a hijacking and ask for money.  

He's a guy from some village in Mexico and hyjacking/burglary is all new to him. But he knows how to build a convincing fake bomb! He actually thinks the Americans can and wil give him ' negotiable/uncirculated. American currency'. Just never mind what the banks or the FBI actually can do or can deliver! That is irrelevant to Cooper. :$ 

World to Cooper!  negotiable.  Bills are negotiable by definition!  You dont have to ask for it!   uncirculated.   You mean NEW bills never used before? That is what uncirculated means in English!  You arent going to get uncirculated.  You can only get used bills. So sir, go back to your village and rethink what you are going to ask for, and HOW to ask for it - non English speaker/thinker.  Beuno!? 

If DB Cooper said: negotiable/uncirculated American currency, then Cooper's thought process is distinctly not standard American English or even Canadian English. Cooper's semantics and thought process are from some other language no matter what his socalled 'accident' is. Or, Cooper never said:  negotiable/uncirculated American currency. 

Nope,, 

You know I am Canadian and I use American or US as a descriptor for American money always..  it something automatic that I don't even think about..

I never do it for my domestic Canadian money.. I have never demanded "Canadian" money in a transaction in Canada. (unless I was exchanging foreign money)

So, from my experience, I believe Cooper used American/US as a descriptor automatically.. without forethought.. a tell.

This is so simple, I don't know why people have so much trouble with it,, maybe it is people not used to using more than one currency.. 

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8 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

I don't work in business or finance, is "negotiable currency" or "negotiable American currency" a valid or frequently used term ?  Doing quick internet searches doesn't return too much.  I see "negotiable instruments" in most of the search returns where things like checks, money orders are listed as examples. But why would he want something like that ?  Is there any benefit in terms of easier redemption ?  I would think that those items are easier to trace.   If the hijacker used the word negotiable, it wouldn't seem incidental.  There would have been some intent behind it, maybe it applies more if you are leaving the country...I don't know.

The phrase "circulated currency" seems more logical as it would help passing the money a little easier or conversely make spotting the bills more difficult for those searching for them.

"negotiable currency" is more common and "circulated" obviously means used..

I don't think they have any relevance.. anybody could use those terms,,

 

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2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

You'll need to explain to me how you reached this conclusion. I understand the whole "go to Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico" bit. But to go from "I legitimately want to go to Mexico City" to "I'm going to jump out of this aircraft north of Portland" seems quite incongruent. 

No it isn't,, 

My conclusion based on all the evidence is that Cooper initially wanted to jump much further South probably outside the US.. when the range was a problem and the crew negotiated Reno Cooper changed his plan. He had the money and didn't want to be on the plane in Reno for the refuel..

1. Cooper's initial demand was airstairs lowered in flight (changed demand during discussion with crew to open on takeoff) When Reno was in play he wanted to jump early.

2. Cooper demanded to go to Mexico, no stops in US for any reason.. this was impossible, Cooper would not make this demand unless he actually believed it was possible. 

3. Cooper was described as swarthy. Latin American possibly Mexican.

4. [REDACTED]

5. Cooper rejected a refuel stop at LA and San Francisco, said too large wanted a small airport. At this point, he was still thinking he would be on the plane for the refuelling. Why would he care if he was jumping in the PNW.

6. Cooper never gave route instructions. He did not have a specific LZ, if they had flown to Mexico he could have later given specific instructions to an LZ.

7. Cooper was not dressed for a PNW jump.

8. There is no counterargument. People claim Mexico was just a ruse to get the plane heading South, there is no evidence for that and it doesn't make sense. There is no way Cooper would make a demand that he knew was impossible, would be rejected and need to be renegotiated.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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7 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

So why didn’t he wait til closer to Reno to jump? 

He gets more time.. and the FBI was planning for him to be in Reno.

Once Reno was in play he wanted to jump ASAP,, he was slightly delayed by the airstair issue..

Edited by FLYJACK

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I’m also not sure why any Cooperite would give any credibility to anything Gregory says.   His testimony is so full of factual errors he may as well have been drunk on the plane and may as well he describing a different person altogether. 

- says he was closest person to Cooper other than the stewardess 
- says dark haired stew sat by Cooper the whole time 
- says Stew told him not to look at Cooper
- says he sat in Row 18

I don’t doubt that Cooper was swarthy (the term “olive” comes up several times in eyewitness statements), but the person who spent the most time around him didn’t say anything about him being a Mexican or Latino nor did Mitchell. 
 

 

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59 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I’m also not sure why any Cooperite would give any credibility to anything Gregory says.   His testimony is so full of factual errors he may as well have been drunk on the plane and may as well he describing a different person altogether. 

- says he was closest person to Cooper other than the stewardess 
- says dark haired stew sat by Cooper the whole time 
- says Stew told him not to look at Cooper
- says he sat in Row 18

I don’t doubt that Cooper was swarthy (the term “olive” comes up several times in eyewitness statements), but the person who spent the most time around him didn’t say anything about him being a Mexican or Latino nor did Mitchell. 
 

 

Gregory has almost nothing to do with the Cooper going to Mexico argument..

but,

I think Gregory is credible. Everybody dismisses him based on false info.

Others corroborated Latin American/olive features.

He was the closest after Mitchell moved forward.. Gregory stayed in his seat..

So, Gregory was the closet for much of the flight. He was correct. I know everybody gets this wrong at their own peril.

He said in the rear, "believed" row 18, he was not claiming for certain. He said he had an aisle seat and that he looked back, so clearly he was a row or two ahead of Cooper and wasn't claiming the absolute rear seat. He just got the row number wrong, not his position.

Stew said not to look at Cooper,,, what does that mean for credibility. Nothing.

Since Gregory had the aisle seat and looked back at Cooper, he would have had a good view. He also got up to go to the rear restroom but was intercepted by the stew. 

He saw a blonde stew bring the money on the plane.

The brown haired stew is incorrect but that is minor, he did say there were 3 stews a blonde and two brunettes. It could be he mixed up Flo and Tina or the FBI interviewer mixed them up in notes or when he looked at Cooper he saw Flo with him both times.. this is the only inconsistency. So, you want to dismiss his testimony on that.

Gregory was a paint guy, he would have eye for colour and detail and he said the suit was russet which can be very dark almost black. Most would think it was black.

I once bought a sport jacket I thought was black but only when I put it next to a real black I could tell it was actually a russet colour..

That is my view on Gregory, if people want to dismiss him they can go right ahead.. I think he is one of the best witnesses, he got a look at Cooper straight on, unlike Mitchell and some of the Stews.

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Stew said not to look at Cooper,,, what does that mean for credibility. Nothing.

 

It means he's making crap up. He implies that the stew sitting next to Cooper said this to him. Why would a stew (presumably Tina) say something like that to a passenger? It would have only served to alert a passenger that something was wrong. I call BS on that happening. 

That's fine if you want to put a lot of stock into his testimony, but let's not forget that he also pegged Cooper at 35 and during his work on the sketches he described him as having greasy hair like Nixon and none of that is describing Hahneman (if that's who you think still did this)

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