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DB Cooper

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1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Yea, given what I've read, it seems he did not have boots on.  However, landing hard in calf high boots versus ankle high shoes is very different. Cooper was a very lucky man if he landed in ankle high loafers and did not twist an ankle or worse.

I don't really belong here, but as a long-time skydiver, a jumper with plenty of landing experience can most likely land with just about any shoe, as long as they plan for it and focus on the landing at landing time. I have hundreds of jumps on round canopies (including nearly a hundred on the kind he used, albeit with less body weight). The majority of those were with sneakers, and a decent number were either barefoot or with flip-flops that were rubber-banded to my big toe.

Slip-ons might or might not survive freefall; it'd depend on how tight they were (and ankle high would be fine).

Just data points.

Wendy P.

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Wasn't Lyle Cameron the editor/publisher of Skydiver Magazine..

My take is he embellished the Cooper "suspect" incident to promote the sport, his publication and the jump centre...

When the FBI got serious he walked it back..

Yes he was.  Here is a link to a nice write up on him when he died back in 1993.  

http://www.timefadesaway.co.uk/spc_history/pages/1960s/6569/lyle.htm

There are some pics in the article as well, born 1931 so that makes him 40 in 1971. ;P

db-cooper-lyle.JPG

Edited by JAGdb

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52 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Cooper had to blend in when he got on the plane .. Wearing boots and a suit would have been beyond conspicuous. Passengers noticed his insulated underwear. They would have to have seen it under his pant leg. Boots would have hidden the long johns. He was wearing penny loafers. He used rubber bands in an  attempt to use his glasses as goggles so he may have used rubber bands like Wendy P. did to secure his shoes.

Prove Cooper was wearing loafers..  or are you still woking out the fake Cle Elum flight path you posted 6 times.

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1 hour ago, Slim King said:

Cooper had to blend in when he got on the plane .. Wearing boots and a suit would have been beyond conspicuous. Passengers noticed his insulated underwear. They would have to have seen it under his pant leg. Boots would have hidden the long johns. He was wearing penny loafers. He used rubber bands in an  attempt to use his glasses as goggles so he may have used rubber bands like Wendy P. did to secure his shoes.

Any evidence in your research that Cooper smoked cigarettes 'backwards'. Lit the filers and puffed? That's a favorite habit of the Arukanian cowboys. 

Edited by georger

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3 minutes ago, Slim King said:

The suit and tie were purchased at a a second hand store. Logically no one would use a suit they wore all the time or would even wear again. However the insulated pants could be Coopers since he thought no one would see them under the suit. Keep in mind that Cooper wanted to jump several hours earlier when the weather conditions were much better.

You mean at 10:00 AM vs 8:00 PM ? Maybe Cooper wanted to jump on Monday instead of Wednesday in July vs November but had to save up to buy a ticket?

Edited by georger

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7 hours ago, Slim King said:

No .. Cooper was pretty smart. He would jump just before dusk and had all night to get away. He'd have a visual landing and as an expert in survival and rescue he'd be able to wing it with the help of a getaway driver he would contact from the nearest phone. All in all a simple plan that even worked several hours later.

You are wrong, as usual,,

Cooper planned a night jump, he demanded money and chutes by 5:00 PM. That was after sunset at 4:32.

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14 hours ago, Slim King said:

The suit and tie were purchased at a a second hand store. Logically no one would use a suit they wore all the time or would even wear again. However the insulated pants could be Coopers since he thought no one would see them under the suit. Keep in mind that Cooper wanted to jump several hours earlier when the weather conditions were much better.

There was a weather front passage through the Pacific Northwest just prior to the hijacking and the weather was actually improving at the time of the hijacking rather than getting worse.

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1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

There was a weather front passage through the Pacific Northwest just prior to the hijacking and the weather was actually improving at the time of the hijacking rather than getting worse.

And soon it would be a brand new century. 2000. The year today is 2022 !

us weather map 2 11_24_71.JPG

 

Edited by georger

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28 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Yes exactly .... Twilight is the perfect time. You forget .. I was there. Plenty of light until well after 5. I lived in Longview for 45 years. Brilliant plan. According to the internet and my personal observation it takes between 70 to 100 minutes to get totally dark in the Pacific Northwest after sunset. So it was still plenty light at 5:18 when Cooper planned to jump.

Dare I ask: how did Cooper money get to Tena Bar ? 

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42 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Yes exactly .... Twilight is the perfect time. You forget .. I was there. Plenty of light until well after 5. I lived in Longview for 45 years. Brilliant plan. According to the internet and my personal observation it takes between 70 to 100 minutes to get totally dark in the Pacific Northwest after sunset. So it was still plenty light at 5:18 when Cooper planned to jump.

Wrong. It was dark. This was before the money and chutes, cabin lights still on.

Demanded chutes/money by 5 PM,, before landing.. then fuelling... 

IT WAS DARK... COOPER PLANNED A NIGHT JUMP

2972.jpg.d40081780373186a6b3e6aa481cfbecf.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 minutes ago, Slim King said:

You are slipping ... This is much later than 5 o clock. The plane circled out over the Puget sound for a couple of hours before landing. The FBI expert said that the unsubscribes would probably blow up the plane. They flew over water to give the pilots a chance at a water landing in an unpopulated area. Same reason the pilots wanted to fly down the coast on the way to Reno. Cooper planned to jump right at dusk .. Around 5:18... The FBI screwed all that up. The FBI had just gotten a pilot killed a few months earlier with their shenanigans.

No slipping, You are wrong, Cooper wanted the plane to land after 5..  then load, and fuel, then takeoff...  it was dark, period.

Edited by FLYJACK

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20 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Simple .. The money was planted on Tena Bar by Dick Briggs and his drug buddies. He had gotten the cash from Don Brennan. There is a book and a documentary that explains how and why it happened. Briggs did not believe that he could spend the money, especially in its condition. He wanted people to believe he was Cooper to enhance his drug sales with such noteriety. ( I lived in Portland at the time, my band played many parties for the coke dealers in the area) So he told people that some of his Cooper money would soon be found..and it was....  The plan worked well with the finders eventually getting paid off and Briggs with all that new respect. Unfortunately he was found mysteriously dead in his car a short time later.

Amazing!   :$     How come none of this came out in Court, when the Ingram's were suing for a reward! ?

Edited by georger

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I'm gonna guess that Max Gunther did not take the steps to do any FOIA's. He clearly got some info wrong in his book that was readily available in articles, but he has enough info in there that tells me he read some articles.  I've read a good amount of his material (books, magazine articles) and I just don't find him to be a guy who digs too deep into details.  That served him well when writing his books and articles in that he could make things up or weave together stories with minimal info.  I suspect he got a little bit of info from "Clara" and then had to go the rest of his way on his own.

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3 hours ago, Slim King said:

If the FBI had not screwed this up the plane could have been refueled  and taken off by 4 o'clock. The money was already prepared for such a possibility. Cooper knew Cossey had already packed the chutes that he requested. The FBI slowed the entire process down. The plane took off from Portland at 2.50 pm. .. I've flown from Portland to Seattle many times .. The flight is about 30 minutes depending. The bank and the sky diving center are just minutes away from Seatac. The FBI had over 2 hours to simply pick up the stuff demanded just minutes away. The ground troops intentionally drug it out. Cooper could easily had made the jump at 5;18 as planned had they not played their deadly games.

False,

Cooper demanded the money/chutes by 5 PM.. THEN the plane could land.

Even if they landed at 5,, it would take at least 45 minutes to get back in the air.

A 5:18 jump is impossible and does not fit the evidence..

 

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2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I'm gonna guess that Max Gunther did not take the steps to do any FOIA's. He clearly got some info wrong in his book that was readily available in articles, but he has enough info in there that tells me he read some articles.  I've read a good amount of his material (books, magazine articles) and I just don't find him to be a guy who digs too deep into details.  That served him well when writing his books and articles in that he could make things up or weave together stories with minimal info.  I suspect he got a little bit of info from "Clara" and then had to go the rest of his way on his own.

There was a Cooper letter in the news mailed from Orange County,,, 

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3 hours ago, Slim King said:

Simple .. The money was planted on Tena Bar by Dick Briggs and his drug buddies. He had gotten the cash from Don Brennan. There is a book and a documentary that explains how and why it happened. Briggs did not believe that he could spend the money, especially in its condition. He wanted people to believe he was Cooper to enhance his drug sales with such noteriety. ( I lived in Portland at the time, my band played many parties for the coke dealers in the area) So he told people that some of his Cooper money would soon be found..and it was....  The plan worked well with the finders eventually getting paid off and Briggs with all that new respect. Unfortunately he was found mysteriously dead in his car a short time later.

Simple, Drug dealers tell lies.. 

This story is BS, there is no evidence to support it.

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3 hours ago, Slim King said:

Cooper knew Cossey had already packed the chutes that he requested.

Cooper did not get the chutes he asked for. He asked for 'two back and two front' chutes. In those days that would mean two mains and two reserves. The back chutes he got were not mains, but pilot emergency bailout rigs. Had he got the mains he asked for, they would have been packed by whoever owned them, likely not riggers unless they were from a military base. If he had happened to get chutes owned by Cossey, sure, but he did not specify where to get them from.

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16 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Cooper did not get the chutes he asked for. He asked for 'two back and two front' chutes. In those days that would mean two mains and two reserves. The back chutes he got were not mains, but pilot emergency bailout rigs. Had he got the mains he asked for, they would have been packed by whoever owned them, likely not riggers unless they were from a military base. If he had happened to get chutes owned by Cossey, sure, but he did not specify where to get them from.

Yes, they initially tried to get chutes from McChord but couldn't get through to the right authority.. they then called Cossey who directed them to Issaquah for front and back chutes,,, but before they were obtained by Emerick, Hayden was contacted and supplied the back chutes. Then only the fronts were needed from Issaquah..

Cossey thought his back chutes were used from Issaquah.. they weren't.

Edited by FLYJACK

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21 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Despite all the Red Herrings  (The FACTS remain) the 4 chutes provided were all packed by Cossey, a friend of Cooper and Don Brennan. I also believe the packer is identified on the chute somehow. Cooper knew that Cossey had packed his chute. Cooper trusted the packer unlike copycat McCoy who brought his own chute while asking for other chutes to present a hostage possibility. Cooper knew many of the jumpers in Issaquah. They knew he was a semi-famous barnstormer. If any of them fingered him, and most of them could have, the FBI ignored it. Why?

BS, Cooper didn't know the chutes were coming from Cossey. He thought they were coming from McChord..

Are you going to continue posting misinformation over and over,, you have got virtually everything wrong just like Carl and the Reca team's narrative.

Walter Reca/Peca was not Cooper,, 

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10 minutes ago, Slim King said:

So you deny that the chutes are tagged by their packer? Do you deny that Cossey packed all the chutes? How do you know what Cooper was thinking? I am giving the FACTS!!!!!!!!!! Why then did the FBI use Cossey on most of their parachute propaganda? What misinformation have I provided about these chutes? Please show me where Cooper asked for the chutes to come from McCord. Until then I'll stick to the facts.

Cossey packed the 3 chutes and made the dummy, Cooper thought they were coming from McChord.. he said so. 

Cooper had no idea the chutes from Issaquah and Hayden were packed by Cossey.

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2 minutes ago, Slim King said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong as FLYJACK pointed out. Hayden provided the back chutes that had been packed by Cossey. Hayden says they were identical chutes and not emergency bail out chutes (Which BTW would have worked just fine for this jump) Hayden eventually got his remaining chute back and I believe donated it to a museum of sorts. Cossey says something different and is murdered years later. The FBI seemed to be just fine with letting Cossey give false information throughout the so called investigation until his death.

You are wrong.

Hayden's back chutes were emergency bailout rigs, non steerable, he needed them for his plane due to regulations but never intended to use them.

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3 minutes ago, Slim King said:

You may be correct. I'll have to check my notes. I do know that he said the chutes were identical. I jumped with chutes you'd call not steerable... but be honest... You do have some steerable ability. I've read that Emergency chutes are built much more sturdily than the fancy steerable chutes and in actuality they would be better in this jump. The real question is why was the FBI using Cossey for all their propaganda and why was Cossey Murdered .... don't you think?

Hayden did say he thought his chutes were basically identical, Cossey was used by the FBI because the FBI thought he knew about the chutes. Cossey was wrong, he assumed his back chutes from Issaquah were used and never heard of Hayden. Cossey and Hayden never met, the shop that Hayden bought the chutes got them packed by Cossey.

Cossey lied to cover for his early chute mix up.. who knows why he was murdered, perhaps he startled a burglar.

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