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quade

DB Cooper

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You know BS, I can see why Cossey told you to fuck off.
You've posted so much utter crap on this one page that my eyes are stinging from the smell of it. I don't even know where to start and I'm not even going to handle all of it.

- DID YOU JUST EVEN REMOTELY SUGGEST THAT THERE MIGHT BE SIX PARACHUTES?
- DID YOU IMPLY HERE THAT COSSEY MIGHT BE AN FBI SHILL?
- DID YOU JUST SUGGEST THAT MAYBE THAT'S WHY HE "GOT WHACKED?"

Are you joking? If you're screwing around, tongue in cheek, I will apologize. If not, you sir, are King Shit of Diaper Mountain.

>>> I'm going to give you a chance to walk up to the plate and hit a pitch BS. If you think that FBI summation ..HaydenCosseyFBIExcerpt.pdf.. is weak sauce, (it's the only one I have ever seen) post any document you have that proves that summation is inaccurate.<<<

Post it. A document.

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Reichenbach

You know BS, I can see why Cossey told you to fuck off.
You've posted so much utter crap on this one page that my eyes are stinging from the smell of it. I don't even know where to start and I'm not even going to handle all of it.

- DID YOU JUST EVEN REMOTELY SUGGEST THAT THERE MIGHT BE SIX PARACHUTES?
- DID YOU IMPLY HERE THAT COSSEY MIGHT BE AN FBI SHILL?
- DID YOU JUST SUGGEST THAT MAYBE THAT'S WHY HE "GOT WHACKED?"

Are you joking? If you're screwing around, tongue in cheek, I will apologize. If not, you sir, are King Shit of Diaper Mountain.

>>> I'm going to give you a chance to walk up to the plate and hit a pitch BS. If you think that FBI summation ..HaydenCosseyFBIExcerpt.pdf.. is weak sauce, (it's the only one I have ever seen) post any document you have that proves that summation is inaccurate.<<<

Post it. A document.



Mixed metaphors there, Rikesie - smell of Diaper Mt. stinging your eyes?

But at least you got my Cooper Royalty correct. I always did think of myself as a King.

1. Yes, six parachutes: two from Cossey, two from Hayden, and two from Issaquah Sky Sports via the WSP. That is one scenario.

2. No, I am not implying that Cossey was an FBI shill. Rather, I was trying to prove a hypothesis that Cossey helped the FBI fabricate a new narrative to the Cooper skyjacking that would minimize Cooper's popular appeal and get guys like me off the FBI's back for not solving the case for 40-upteen years. To call Cossey a "shill" is not very dignified. The Cossey spin, I think, was masterful, and it lasted for 40 years. Impressive, no? The many Cooper stories that Cossey told was quite artful.

Further, any distraction that Cossey's announcements and behaviors might provide from searching for the real skyjacker was simply icing on the cake, I think, for the FBI. No?

3. Yes, I have often suggested that Coss got whacked because of his involvement with Norjack and his many bad behaviors, which are now coming to light.

Herr Reichs, all of this seems to get your knickers in a twist, if I might use a British saying. How come? Is Earl Cossey your patron saint, or are you the CEO of the American Parachute Rigging Association?

As for The Document on the parachutes, I'll have to go digging for it. In all actuality, what you're asking me to post was already posted here in September 2011, which is where I got it. Snowmman discovered that Geoffrey had stolen some of the FBI's files and stored them in a secret cache in cyber space. Snow posted the codes here and many of us went snooping through GG's stuff. It was fun! And very educational.

As for the document itself, it is virtually incomprehensible, which is why Bobby re-wrote it into Common American English. Of course, with Bobby-being-Bobby, he fucked it up in his own delightful way, which we continue to try to sort out.

Such are the many duties of Royalty.

Attached are the actual files, from pages 226-227 of a larger Cooper case file that I stole from GG.

BTW: Even though the FBI says that Hayden is the source of their information, Norman says he never spoke with the FBI, and he denies all of these descriptions.

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"...Truth is stranger than fiction ... and that is the only reason, a novice like me would entertain (and not rule out) any suspects...."


How big is your ruler, 1K, there are a reported 900 or so confessees.

Right here we've got:

1. Barb
2. Kenny-ish
3. Duane
4. Wolfie G-ish

Then there's smokejumpers, special forces,etc.......

Actually, no. You are speaking of the number of people the FBI seriously checked out for the hijacking...NOT the number of people who actually confessed to the crime..."



Wrongo, Bobby.

The current figures in Norjak are:

1. Confessions reported to the FBI - 900-plus (Galen says 922)
2. Number of suspects/leads reported to the FBI that have been investigated: 1,100 and counting.

Ya know, Bobby, some days I really wonder if you ever read my book. How many copies have I sent to you???

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NMIWrecks

***It's an intriguing, unanswered question, which boggles my mind. I have thought through some of the possibilities such as:

1. A second jumper, accomplice
2. A second jumper as a hostage
3. Additional rigs in the event some were unusable
4. Additional resources, as we know paracord was used to tie-down the money sack.

It seems to me that there was a question in the plan or some other options that Cooper had in-play that may go unanswered, however I think it is of note that he requested more chutes than necessary for him to make a singular jump.



I always thought he requested the extra chutes to imply he was taking a hostage with him, so the authorities wouldn't sabotage any of the chutes. That's just an opinion.

Your opinion was widely shared in 1971, and still is today.

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BruceSmith

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"...Not complicated at all. Attached: The Seattle FBI's own file on the matter, created shortly after the hijacking...."


Oh, Bobby, what are we going to do with you?

The FBI report is totally mucked-up. Even your sanitized and heavily edited version of the FBI report that you keep posting is fubar'd. For instance, where the fuck is "Boeing Flight Services in Seattle"?

And why were the chutes sent there when the skyjacking was taking place at Sea-Tac? HUNH!


You also say these things, which are not quite accurate:

Quote

'Yes, the "not-used" back chute was also kept by the FBI and delivered to Hayden about ten years later, after he waged a court battle to get it returned.

4. However, Cossey says his "not used" parachute was never returned, even though NWO supposedly paid for it. There is no explanation of these circumstances from the FBI, Cossey, or anyone else that I am aware of...'



There was no court battle, and the chutes were not purchased by NWA, only RENTED. Hayden had the chute returned to him simply by having his lawyer send a single letter to the FBI. Based on that letter, the chute was returned to him. NWA did pay the rental fees, but not for the entire ten years, of course. The pink chute was not returned because it was declared evidence in the case, since Cooper actually handled it, and cut lines from it.

The document I presented has not been 'edited,' but only re-typed from the original for better presentation. It is a word-for-word representation of the original. You could easily check that yourself, since that file is in the FBI's Vault link at their website. It was created by former Seattle FBI agent John S. Detlor at the time of the crime.

As far as the 'Boeing Flight Services' reference, it is possible that Hayden was told to send them there, rather than directly to SeaTac Airport. Remember...Barry Halstad was already at Flight Services when they called him for chutes. Due to the situation going on at the airport, it is doubtful a cab driver would be allowed to deliver the chutes himself to wherever spot the FBI and NWA had set up as their temporary HQ at the airport. Perhaps the State Patrol went to Boeing Flight and picked up the chutes there.

THEY would be allowed to park out front of the main entrance to SeaTac, unlike a cab. THEY would have instant access to anywhere inside SeaTac Airport. THEY would be able to go as fast as they wished between Boeing Flight and the airport. In fact, this scenario makes perfect sense. It is a reletively minor issue, since we know all four chutes ended up on the jet for Cooper anyway.

You could also check this by calling up Norman Hayden. I have his number if you want it. As far as where 'Boeing Flight Services' is...your lack of knowledge on that means you've never been to an airport smaller than a major hub, I guess. They mean the building on the airport property where you go get lessons, arrange to have your plane serviced, pay your tie-down or hangar fees, etc. The one here at Auburn Airport is...amazingly enough...called Auburn Flight Services. You see, Bruce...they don't actually LET you deliver parachutes to the runways at airports. Mostly you have go into the office. ;)

*Some of the above information was obtained through a telephone interview I did with Hayden some time ago. In any case, I attached the original FBI document so you could see why I re-typed it. Also the re-typed version in case you want to do a forensic comparison.

And my name isn't Bobby. You don't know me well enough to call me that. :S


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skyjack71

2 front chutes and 2 chest packs that is not 4 chutes . The chest pack is just a back up in the event the main chute does not open. Asking for 2 sets would alert the athorities - he might be taking someone with him - this was to make sure the packs had NOT been tampered with.

These jumpers can expain that better than I can - Bruce is not a jumper and there are only 4 or 5 real jumpers who actually post now and then to the thread.

I get PM's from some of them - those who rarely post and some who never posted.

Always wondered about the old gentleman who contacted when I first came to the DZ.
He was not a well person & probably died all I had was is first name and his
handle - would love to have met that man.

There are several I really would like to meet before I go - but, that will just not happen unless they come to a jump in my area. Most no longer jump - because they are getting up in age...like Richard Peterson who knew when it was time to stop doing PULLS.

It must be a fascinating feeling to fly thru the air with NO WINGs (some jumpers do have wings now & they zoom around fast) but also knowing that before you get too close you can pull that cord.



Robb Heady performed his skyjacking with only one chute - a front pack, which he wore under his windbreaker.

Jo, I seriously wonder sometimes if you have ever read my book, even though I have sent you plenty of copies. Wassup, girl?

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"...As far as the 'Boeing Flight Services' reference, it is possible that Hayden was told to send them there, rather than directly to SeaTac Airport. Remember...Barry Halstad was already at Flight Services when they called him for chutes...."




Nope. Bobby, you are kind of close, but No Cigar.

Barry was at work at Pacific Aviation.

Further, Barry told me that he had never heard of Boeing Flight Services, saying, "I even worked for Boeing and I never heard of that place."

As for your speculations, nice try but I ain't buying any of it. Not for a second.

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"...your lack of knowledge on that means you've never been to an airport smaller than a major hub, I guess..."




BOBBY! You haven't even read Chapter 1 of my book!!!

Does your mother get as exasperated with you as I? Whew.

I rediscovered the Cooper story at Thun Field when I met the Formans, so forget the "major hub" canard.

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I do not read garbage & when I see how you twist things on the thread it makes me sick to my stomach...

Where is Cossey's phone?

When the person is not here to defend themselves you take vulgar & garish liberties....I expect you did that in your book!

Anyone who knows the crime & how you treated everyone you interviewed...would not want to read your book.

You think that all of that garbage will be history one day. Betcha didn't dare mention the DZ!

What your readers need to know is how GROSS & VULGAR & demeaning you are on this thread. You would never repeat a review that would put you in your place. You have NEVER apologized for the crude things you said about Tina and her family in this thread,

You are a CHILDISH BULLY who does not care who he hurts to get his way!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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BruceSmith

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"...As far as the 'Boeing Flight Services' reference, it is possible that Hayden was told to send them there, rather than directly to SeaTac Airport. Remember...Barry Halstad was already at Flight Services when they called him for chutes...."




Nope. Bobby, you are kind of close, but No Cigar.

Barry was at work at Pacific Aviation.

Further, Barry told me that he had never heard of Boeing Flight Services, saying, "I even worked for Boeing and I never heard of that place."

As for your speculations, nice try but I ain't buying any of it. Not for a second.


Of course you aren't. It's obvious that there was some discussion between Hayden, the person who contacted him, and where the chutes were supposed to go in the taxicab. I did make a minor error saying Halstad was at Boeing Flight that afternoon, rather than at Pac Aviation...but the chutes DID end up at Flight Services at Boeing. Then someone (probably a member of law enforcement) actually took them to the airport. Why don't you just ask Hayden about it? I'm sure he knows the exact arrangements.

You understand that most airports just aren't the runways, right? Unless we're talking about a grass strip in WhereverLand with a wind sock hanging out there and you are Johnny-on-Your-Own for landings and takeoffs.

Boeing Flight Services in 1971 refers to a group of buildings at Boeing Field where the business of the airport took place, Bruce. They don't just set up desks and file cabinets in the middle of the runways, you know. Maybe you should call up Boeing Field and ask them about it. Just because Barry Halstad wasn't familiar with the location of the main office for Boeing Field in 1971 doesn't mean they forgot to create one. ;)

You are funny as hell sometimes, I swear.

You also say this:

Quote

'Attached are the actual files, from pages 226-227 of a larger Cooper case file that I stole from GG.'



Yeah. That's the file I already presented. Same one, plus my easier-to-read re-type. It's public. On the FBI's website, freely available to anyone for years now. You didn't 'steal' it.

Quote

'BTW: Even though the FBI says that Hayden is the source of their information, Norman says he never spoke with the FBI, and he denies all of these descriptions...'



Norman is right. He only spoke to NWA to make sure they understood the chutes were a rental, and he wanted them back. And he agrees with the basic descriptions of the chutes he provided. He says he never noticed the 'worn' reference is all. (From my interview with him)

If you are going to interview people, you need to start recording them, or at least taking notes for exact quotes once in a while, especially on key points. You have a really bad habit of just claiming someone said this or that without ANY exact quotes from them along the way...and this is very bad reporting. If you don't quote someone (exact words on a point) occasionally, there is no way to verify the reference. It's also funny that you often refer to interviewees on a first-name basis when many of the people you've interviewed get so angry or disgusted with you that they refuse you a second visit at the trough. :S

As far as your book, I said I supported it, and I still do because there are few enough Cooper books out there. Didn't say I actually read the whole thing, nor will I ever make a review or an official comment on it. I get enough manuscripts shoved at me as it is. I think I have seen your theme song, though. :)
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'Nobody takes it seriously...'




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"...Betcha didn't dare mention the DZ!.."



Nope. I talk about the DZ extensively. In fact, you are featured in that chapter. I call you the "godmother" of a resurgent DB Cooper investigation.

Since you're clearly making one ignorant statement after another, I'm gonna cut you off- no more free books for you. You simply don't bother to read what I've written and given to you for free.

From now on, sweetie, if you wanna read what I've said about you and the rest of the Norjak case, you're gonna have to pay $6.99 like everyone else.

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"...but the chutes DID end up at Flight Services at Boeing. Then someone (probably a member of law enforcement) actually took them to the airport. Why don't you just ask Hayden about it? I'm sure he knows the exact arrangements...."



Nope. Wrongo again, Bobby.

1. The chutes did not end up at Boeing Flight Services, where ever it may be, if in fact it even exists.

WSHM documents from the estate of George Harrison clearly show that the two chutes from Hayden arrived at the NWO freight desk at Sea-Tac by taxi as arranged prior with Norman.

All this was confirmed when I spoke with Norm several years ago at his shop in Renton. No need to talk to the guy again.

2. The FBI docs are in gross disarray. Get used to it Bobby; it's just the way it is. In fact, the more I read of the FBI docs the more they appear to be akin to Into the Blast.

The FBI clearly needs an "editor." A supervisor would do - anyone with some smarts who could read every agent's note and sort it all out.

As good a writer as John Detlor is, and he is the author of the History of the FBI, he still mucked-it-up back in '71.

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"...If you are going to interview people, you need to start recording them, or at least taking notes for exact quotes once in a while, especially on key points. You have a really bad habit of just claiming someone said this or that without ANY exact quotes from them along the way...and this is very bad reporting. If you don't quote someone (exact words on a point) occasionally, there is no way to verify the reference...."




Really wrong, Bobby. My book is filled with a lot more dialogue than your Into the Blast.

But then how would you know, since you've never read my book, and it appears you have no intention of ever doing so.

Sigh.

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18E

Any theories on why he asked for 4 chutes with a combination of 2 different styles?

Was there a 2nd jumper who didn't jump?



I think the popular theory is that; it is to lead FBI into thinking that he'd make a hostage jump with him so they don't sabotage the gear.

Accomplice on board is out of question, there were barely 36 pax and clearly they all would've gone thru rigorous background check, especially after the hijacking.

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18E


So then if in fact Cooper intentionally asked for two sets of chutes to ensure that the FBI would not tamper with them, giving them the notion that he would take a hostage, one would surmise this was a very smart tactic on his part.



Well that and a few other things like no one still knows where did he come from and...well...where did he go.

The bugger definitely had a hell of an IQ and some serious exposure (not just training and planning I guess).... they say a lifetime of happiness cannot teach you lessons that a few bad days can.

I think this man had seen war/intelligence/operations kind of stuff.

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thousandthings

***
So then if in fact Cooper intentionally asked for two sets of chutes to ensure that the FBI would not tamper with them, giving them the notion that he would take a hostage, one would surmise this was a very smart tactic on his part.



Well that and a few other things like no one still knows where did he come from and...well...where did he go.

The bugger definitely had a hell of an IQ and some serious exposure (not just training and planning I guess).... they say a lifetime of happiness cannot teach you lessons that a few bad days can.

I think this man had seen war/intelligence/operations kind of stuff.

Yes, in view of such details as this (purpose for multiple parachutes), I can see why a conclusion can be drawn as you state above.

Here's what I get hung up on; if a man is well-trained in the art of war/intelligence/black-ops/etc, why does he jump into the November night sky over the Pacific Northwest with the rain, cold, wind and uneven terrain in a suit and dress shoes? (I lived in Western Oregon as a kid and am familiar with the weather). This is hardly being prepared for the elements at 10,000 feet on a cold November night. Also, it seems like very poor preparation for a botched landing that could be off-course and place him in an uncompromising position.

I go on a day-long fishing trip and take fishing gear, waders, toolkit, change of clothes, cash, water, emergency first-aid, phone, and even a survival kit in the event something unlooked for happens. This guy was jumping out of an airplane at 10,000 feet into the black-of-night cold of the November Pacific NW into some possible rugged terrain with a requested chute, dressed in a suit/raincoat, no headgear, dress shoes and a bag of money wrapped around his waist.

I'm just not detecting the intelligence in his prep.

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18E


Here's what I get hung up on; if a man is well-trained in the art of war/intelligence/black-ops/etc, why does he jump into the November night sky over the Pacific Northwest with the rain, cold, wind and uneven terrain in a suit and dress shoes? (I lived in Western Oregon as a kid and am familiar with the weather). This is hardly being prepared for the elements at 10,000 feet on a cold November night. Also, it seems like very poor preparation for a botched landing that could be off-course and place him in an uncompromising position.

I go on a day-long fishing trip and take fishing gear, waders, toolkit, change of clothes, cash, water, emergency first-aid, phone, and even a survival kit in the event something unlooked for happens. This guy was jumping out of an airplane at 10,000 feet into the black-of-night cold of the November Pacific NW into some possible rugged terrain with a requested chute, dressed in a suit/raincoat, no headgear, dress shoes and a bag of money wrapped around his waist.

I'm just not detecting the intelligence in his prep.



I think it's a matter of perspective.

Why do crime at all in which case?

I mean there are 1000s of legit ways of making more money than $200K.

There are less risky illegit ways than jumping off a plane to make $200K .... I don't know either btw :P

Anyways, no one knows what he was wearing underneath. Even if it was nothing, let's not forget some people are trained in worse conditions than what DBC attempted.

Soldiers / spies / counter intelligence guys etc. put up with far worse and a lot more danger, that to in hostile territories. Often at the face of certain death and no more motivation than an "Order".

Crime, on the other hand has motivation far more personal than that-PROFITS OR PERSONAL GAINS.

I think while a lot of people question what you are, I think we are completely discounting the power of Human Will.

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I'm just not detecting the intelligence in his prep.

I think it's a matter of perspective.

Why do crime at all in which case?

I mean there are 1000s of legit ways of making more money than $200K.

There are less risky illegit ways than jumping off a plane to make $200K .... I don't know either btw :P

Anyways, no one knows what he was wearing underneath. Even if it was nothing, let's not forget some people are trained in worse conditions than what DBC attempted.

Soldiers / spies / counter intelligence guys etc. put up with far worse and a lot more danger, that to in hostile territories. Often at the face of certain death and no more motivation than an "Order".

Crime, on the other hand has motivation far more personal than that-PROFITS OR PERSONAL GAINS.

I think while a lot of people question what you are, I think we are completely discounting the power of Human Will.

Motivation is a very important aspect to understanding any crime, and thus solving it, and this crime is certainly no different. I see various profiles that can help in determining motivation:

1. Criminal-Thief. Motivation - money.
2. Government Operative. Motivation - orders, duty, loyalty.
3. Begrudged Government Operative. Motivation - revenge.
4. Nutcase. Motivation - none necessary ('Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.' ~ Alfred Pennyworth in The Dark Knight.

Let me know if there are other 'types' you can think of that would expand this list.

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"....18E: I'm just not detecting the intelligence in his prep.

I think it's a matter of perspective.

Why do crime at all in which case?

I mean there are 1000s of legit ways of making more money than $200K.

There are less risky illegit ways than jumping off a plane to make $200K .... I don't know either btw :P

Anyways, no one knows what he was wearing underneath. Even if it was nothing, let's not forget some people are trained in worse conditions than what DBC attempted.

Soldiers / spies / counter intelligence guys etc. put up with far worse and a lot more danger, that to in hostile territories. Often at the face of certain death and no more motivation than an "Order".

Crime, on the other hand has motivation far more personal than that-PROFITS OR PERSONAL GAINS.

I think while a lot of people question what you are, I think we are completely discounting the power of Human Will.

Motivation is a very important aspect to understanding any crime, and thus solving it, and this crime is certainly no different. I see various profiles that can help in determining motivation:

1. Criminal-Thief. Motivation - money.
2. Government Operative. Motivation - orders, duty, loyalty.
3. Begrudged Government Operative. Motivation - revenge.
4. Nutcase. Motivation - none necessary ('Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.' ~ Alfred Pennyworth in The Dark Knight.

Let me know if there are other 'types' you can think of that would expand this list.



My Dear 18E and 1K - I offer quite a bit of information and analysis of why other skyjackers stole their plane. In fact, I did a whole chapter on Robb Heady. Plus, there is a lot on Richard McCoy.

Other books touch on this subject as well, such and Tosaw's and Rhodes.

I'd love to hear your comments after digesting those commentaries.

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'WSHM documents from the estate of George Harrison clearly show that the two chutes from Hayden arrived at the NWO freight desk at Sea-Tac by taxi as arranged prior with Norman.

All this was confirmed when I spoke with Norm several years ago at his shop in Renton. No need to talk to the guy again.

2. The FBI docs are in gross disarray. Get used to it Bobby; it's just the way it is. In fact, the more I read of the FBI docs the more they appear to be akin to Into the Blast.

The FBI clearly needs an "editor." A supervisor would do - anyone with some smarts who could read every agent's note and sort it all out.

As good a writer as John Detlor is, and he is the author of the History of the FBI, he still mucked-it-up back in '71.'



The documents released by the FBI in the Cooper case, (also known as The Vault) are only a small fraction of the actual files. They're just the ones the FBI decided to make public, and don't include the really important ones, like the written witness statements.

Okay. You point to the Harrison reference where the chutes went directly to NWO freight, while Detlor says they went to (basically) the main office at Boeing Field. Maybe I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that, but it really is a small point. The chutes ended up on the jet, I think we can agree on that.

The reason I originally presented the document isn't because of delivery issues. It was because the document shows who actually OWNED the chutes. That would be Hayden, and not Earl Cossey. And this fact alone, that Cossey allowed that error to continue for so many years COULD call into question his accuracy on ID'ing anything the FBI came to him with later. Like the Amboy chute for example. And the fact that he based his dismissal of it on a very unlikely statement that the chute was made of silk and not nylon. You see, Bruce...the problem here is that Cossey may not have been motivated to identify anything for the FBI because he had perpetuated an 'error' on ownership of the chutes for literally DECADES. This is a definite problem. The FBI made it worse by not giving a reason why they discounted the chute. Also, if Cossey had ever said, "Yes, that's the chute..." this would have been big news and it would have come out in the media about the myth he perpetuated for decades...that he owned and delivered said chutes. Might have been embarrassing for him. Maybe he never intended to ID anything...EVER...for the FBI.

I think we all know chances are good the Amboy chute was not Cooper's. The odds are against it. But if you want to point to a mucked-up investigation into a single facet of the case...the Amboy chute is a real good example.

Back to Norman Hayden: I interviewed him by phone for about an hour, after some initial emails back and forth. And that was at the same time I re-typed the FBI document by Detlor. I sent it to him by email and asked him if he knew about it, and...was it accurate?

He says, yes...that's 'basically' how it went down. He didn't dispute the accuracy of it except to say something about this part of it:

Quote

'The parachute has a foam pad cushion and a fray
mark down the rib on the back from rubbing on metal...'



Hayden told me he didn't remember the fray mark, but let it go. Then he asked me for a high-res version of the document so he could print it up and frame it for his office. So I did that for him.

I saw a comment back there on 'there are easier ways to get $200,000,' or something like that. Not really. That's a pretty extreme method, i.e. creating an alleged bomb and going for broke out the back of a flying jet at night. And back in 1971, that amount of money would be worth approximately $1,040,000 today. That's a fair amount of moolah no matter how you cut it.

Motivation to try such a thing? Plenty of reasons. Desperation, need for money, unhappiness with something or other, who knows? I agree with the people who say it probably wasn't anyone who was in Special Forces or any of that stuff. The way the hijacker dressed is a giveaway for sure, although I hear one witness claimed Cooper was at least wearing thermal underwear. And no one knows what he was carrying in the paper bag...which was never found either. Boots would have been good, although you would think he would put those on before putting on the parachute, and Mucklow never said anything about him taking anything out of the bag.

Comparing your book to Into The Blast is like comparing apples to oranges. Blast has a very narrow scope and is a reletively short book. It only deals with the possibility that Ken Christiansen may have been the hijacker, while yours goes into much more about the hijacking itself and the history of the investigation into the Cooper case. I suppose I should read your book if only to find out whether, unlike Geoff Gray, you come to a conclusion on the probable identity of the hijacker. I'm going to hope you didn't select Sheridan Peterson because I don't think he would have done a hijacking for money. His entire life history points to a person who would have considered it beneath him to threaten people just for money. And the blue eyes are a real problem with him. The fact that the FBI actually looked him up and took a DNA swab also makes you wonder how confident they really are in the official description of the hijacker. As I said earlier, they should have turned around and left as soon as they saw those big blue eyes looking back at them.

On Kenny Christiansen: One thing is for sure on old Kenny. It's going to be discovered for sure whether he was Cooper or not, and it's going to happen this year. I have NO idea which way it will go. And I understand the chances of actually being right about him are much less than being wrong. But I think he needs to be eliminated or confirmed one way or another at last.

I have created my own profile of the hijacker, based on what I have learned. Some of these things fit Kenny, some don't:

1) I believe the hijacker got his jump training in the military and jumped little to none as a civilian. I base this on the fact he selected the military chute, and seemed to know what he was doing with it. Also, the fact that the FBI's many inquiries within the parachuting community turned up zero.

2) The hijacker may have been a Boeing employee who worked on the SST program. Funding for that program was cancelled in March 1971 and there were layoffs. Maybe he was pissed off about that. But the problem here is that the only real thing linking the hijacking to Boeing is that the plane was MADE by Boeing. The hijacker wasn't 'going after' Boeing, or even the US Government...the two entities involved in the ending of SST.

3) The hijacker was probably from the Puget Sound area. Statements, actions by the hijacker point strongly to this possibility.

4) The hijacker was desperate for money and was probably dirt-poor at the time of the hijacking. He came poorly dressed, poorly prepared. If he lived, it was a miracle for sure.

5) The hijacker was familiar with basic flight controls and how they would affect an aircraft. His instructions to the crew show that.

6) The hijacker made a comment about Minnesota being 'nice country'. At least according to Geoff Gray's book. Ask yourself how he formed such an opinion. And if he was from the Puget Sound area, then your suspect could be a person who was familiar with both Minnesota AND Puget Sound. ;)

7) The hijacker had not jumped in some time. Again, this relates to his selection of the military chute. If he were a current civilian jumper, he might have chosen the Pioneer rig.

8) The hijacker was familiar with the operations of an aircraft for NWA. I base this on the fact that he told Mucklow he knew where the O-2 bottles were, and that if he needed them, he would use them. Also...these bottles were stored in different locations depending on the actual flight. There was not a standard location necessarily used on all flights. And I don't know this for sure...but I would say these bottles would be stored out of sight of passengers if for no other reason but safety, because smoking was allowed.

9) The hijacker was probably dropped off at the Portland Airport. No car was found, no one remembered him from public transportation. It was like he appeared there out of nowhere.


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NON-COOPER: I want to lighten things up by telling you a funny...and TRUE story...that happened to me back in 1981. I think the Statute of Limitations has expired on this one, so talking about it is okay. I also recently sent a nice message to the person in question about this, since he is now out of jail. B|

I actually sold a car to a spy and bank robber. Christopher Boyce, you know...the Falcon. I just ordered his new book to see if he put in anything about this incident.

Back in 1981 I worked for a while on a small car lot in Federal Way, WA, selling used cars. One day, I was alone there while everyone else was at lunch. This guy comes in on foot and asks me which of the three Mustangs we had on the lot there was the best. I pointed out a white Mustang and he asked me the price. Eleven hundred, I told him. (good old days of cheap cars)

Then this guy asks me if we have a bathroom. Sure, around the corner there. He tells me to go ahead and write up the sale. I ask if he wants a test drive, maybe hear it run. He says if I say it runs good, that's okay by him. Goes to the bathroom and comes back a few minutes later with this big stack of bills. Five, ten, twenty, twenty-one, whatever...he's counting out until he reaches the total price of the car. This wasn't really unusual back then. I give him the keys, he leaves. My boss comes back, he's happy. Sales have been slow.

The next day....:)
Two guys in suits show up on the lot. My boss is sitting in the corner, and I am behind the desk. They show me this grainy black and white photo and ask me if I have seen this guy, or did he buy a car. They didn't say who he was, or why they were looking for him, but they said he dumped a stolen car at the old Diamond Jim's restaurant next door.

The suits are looking at me, but my boss is over there in the corner giving me the 'wave' to say no, so...I said no. Truth was, I didn't really recognize the guy who bought the car from the crappy B/W picture they had. It was no bigger than the smallest-sized school photos you see. Maybe three inches tall by two inches wide. After the suits left, (I think they were Federal marshals) my boss told me he didn't want them seizing the money just on a 'maybe' for some wanted guy.

Few months later...they catch Chris Boyce at a drive-in restaurant up in Port Angeles. His picture is in the paper. Much better picture. I recognize him right away. Mustang guy. That's him, all right. I didn't see any sense in telling anyone about it since they had him anyway and I thought I might get into trouble for selling him the car. I wasn't working at the car lot anymore anyway.

Wonder if he says anything in his book about this incident. I will have to look. In my message to him, I took him down Memory Lane about the Mustang and congratulated him on the book and the fact that he was finally out of jail. I also wonder if he will remember...and answer. I'll let you know if he does. B|


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!8E and Thousanthingy not going to try figure out which said what, but regarding some of the thoughts the 2 of you communicated...I would like to comment how the apply to Weber.


"definitly had a hell of an IQ and some serious exposure (not just training and planning I guess).... they say a lifetime of happiness cannot teach you lessons that a few bad days can"

That statement is so very true & remember having a high IQ does not mean being well educated... things get in the way - behavior problems, wars, family loosing their home to the depression...Duane's brother was a lot older than Duane. Duane was the baby.

I believe his brother if my memory serves me was 13/15 yrs older...and his sister was 6 yrs older...

Duane wanted to make his parents proud...he wanted to be a pilot. The first time Duane tried to enlist at the ripe old age of 15 he was rejected and his eyesite did not meet the airforce rule - so he manages to get himself in to the navy and then kicked out of the navy in a few months for striking a 90 day wonder who would not leave a young lady alone.

In April of 1943 he writes a letter home from Camp Sibert... the penmanship is excellent and the subject matter Evidently he enclose a picture of himself in his army uniform - but I never saw it and it was not something that his brother had access to and his sister tried to send me things - but, her son controlled her life during the last aspect of it as she aged. A lot of the photos I never got to see.

At least not the Army picture.

Duane L. Weber 35608905
Co D- 2st CWS Tng. Regt
Camp Siebert, Ala.

I provided the FBI with that information in 1997 and yet they claimed on 2 occassions Duane was never in the ARMY...as late a 2000 the agent was making this claim - and he excused himself from the phone and called me back about 3 hrs later.

After 3 yrs of claiming Duane was NOT in the ARMY they FBI ate their words...
I guess they didn't know I had a letter mail from Camp Sibert....a flimsy claim of having one of the numbers wrong....Duh! the had the same information I did and supposedly more.

Even when CARR came to the thread he tried claiming Duane was not in the ARMY didn't take a heart beat to get that straightened out.

NOTE the date of the letter - April 15, 1943 this is very important to remember later on...because of a very long post I will be putting up in a few days...

I just found something else in the file I had forgotten about.

I HAVE TOLD IN THE PAST THAT DUANE WENT TO KS & NEBRASKA IN 1990 BEFORE HE WENT ON THE MACHINE OR RIGHT AFTER HE WENT ON THE MACHINE. I DID NOT KNOW I HAD PROOF UNTIL THIS MOMENT OR I HAVE STATED IT & FORGOT IT.

HE WAS IN HUTCHINSON KS. ON MARCH 14 1990....THERE WAS A $2,438. CHARGE TO MY CREDIT CARD.

FROM OLD MILL ANTIQUES. WHERE IS HUTCHINSON, KS. HIS EX WIFE HAD A SISTER WHO HAD AN ANTIQUE SHOP IN KS...I WONDER IF SHE OWNED THAT SHOP IN 1990...WONDER IF THE FBI EVER CHECKED THIS OUT?

AT ANY RATE DUANE DISAPPEARED FOR 3 DAYS AROUND THAT TIME AND THERE WAS A ONE WAY FLIGHT TICKET CHARGED TO MY OTHER ACCOUNT FROM TALLAHASSEE TO NEBRASKA.

Sorry guys I got off track....but the date of that letter is very important for you to remember and then remember this DUANE flies off of the map for 18 months or more only to surface again in CA. where his parent lived in 1943.

The entire time he is in the Army his parents are fighting the system to get his bad conduct discharged from his Navy record...how the hell - I just realized that the Army & the Navy seem at time stacked!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Do not know who said what - but below are quotes that will mean something very important in a few days.

"Here's what I get hung up on; if a man is well-trained in the art of war/intelligence/black-ops/etc, why does he jump into the November night sky over the Pacific Northwest with the rain, cold, wind and uneven terrain in a suit and dress shoes? (I lived in Western Oregon as a kid and am familiar with the weather). This is hardly being prepared for the elements at 10,000 feet on a cold November night. Also, it seems like very poor preparation for a botched landing that could be off-course and place him in an uncompromising position."

"Anyways, no one knows what he was wearing underneath. Even if it was nothing, let's not forget some people are trained in worse conditions than what DBC attempted.

Soldiers / spies / counter intelligence guys etc. put up with far worse and a lot more danger, that to in hostile territories. Often at the face of certain death and no more motivation than an "Order". "

Crime, on the other hand has motivation far more personal than that-PROFITS OR PERSONAL GAINS".

*************************
************************

OK you guys just set the whole thing up & you guys & I have NEVER spoke & we do not know each other & have never met.

Case #1199879 Municipal Court, Akron, Ohio May 5, 1943.

The Case of State of Ohio Planitiff,
vs. Duane Weber Defendant, is set for trial in the municipal court - 8th floor Police Court for Thursday May 8, 1943.

1 o'clock P.M
Courtney & Manes Plaintiff
Underswood Defendatn.
Walter Rice Clerk.

Retain this for a while - because it is going to take several days for the package to open up....and to lead the blind to Cooper....but it is here & it was in the Weber files all along - (I gave copies of all of this to the FBI) someone missed it. Maybe I am not understanding it, but it will be a few days & then you will be asked to remember this posting.

A letter regarding a marriage certificate is dated October 11, 1943 in the County of Monroe - Monroe, Michigan.

Duane Weber to Daisy Schuller - July 23, 1943.

Duane's brother made a perplexing note on the paper he sent to me.

"Note the date of letter April 15, 1943 and the court appearance May 5, 1943 and the marriage July 23, 1943 in Monroe, Mich."

In October his mother verified the marriage as the information was mailed to her....was this the mother of the only child Duane supposedly had?

He told his friend he had both a son and a daughter....I was only aware of a daughter who was 9 yrs old the last tiime he saw her.

"Note the date of letter April 15, 1943 and the court appearance May 5, 1943 and the marriage July 23, 1943 in Monroe, Mich."

;)Does that not sound ODD to some of you - Duane's brother was an engineer with Boeing & with a great deal of education. He did not understand the information he found in the files his mother kept & frankly I didn't either...thought the FBI would have some answers, but they didn't even know all of this...nor did they ever acknowledge it.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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