18 18
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

smokin99

******This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



..........

On a simpler point, one of the reasons I never believed the dismissal of the chute based on Cossey's 'It's silk, and the one I gave to Cooper was nylon...'

Is because after December 7, 1941 silk production and importation virtually ceased in the United States for some years afterward. The chute is almost certainly not made of silk, and that explanation for dismissal appears in article after article about it. It simply doesn't make sense.



There you go again. I'm no silk expert but this is just historically inaccurate.

First, US production of silk has never been much of a success. That is why we had to import it from other countries, principally Japan.

Second. The US ceasing import of Japanese silk did not mean that all of the stores of silk in the United States disappeared overnight.

Actually what happened in 1941 is that the US government froze the imports and commandeered all existing US companies inventories of silk. The existing stock was mandated for government use only for things like parachutes, surgical sutures, electrical insulation. Processing silk for civilian use was prohibited.

Over the next few years, as the supply dwindled, they had to come up with an alternative. This still did not mean that silk chutes totally disappeared as some companies used up their supply while others quickly re-tooled for the new material. According to export records, we were also still supplying some other countries with silk parachute cloth in the mid to late 40s.

I have posted all of this before as well as documentation that showed that while limited, silk parachutes were still being manufactured in some mills in the mid 40s.

But really - even if the chute was not silk and was a first generation nylon - in the pictures it did not look like rip-stop nylon - even to my untrained eye.

If the chutes supplied to the hijacker were made of the material that was shown at the Washington historical exhibit that Sailsaw posted....then all the wishes in the world won't turn it into what has been photographed as the Amboy chute.

There was some discussion from 2010 on this site for example this one

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3947064#3947064

saying that "silk" parachute after the 1930s, weren't really silk anymore, but some material that looked like silk. If there were any issues of biodegradation or lack thereof, that could be why.

I'm just posting what I read. I encourage anyone with more knowledge than me to comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)
EDIT: You guys are asking the wrong questions, and seeking out the wrong sources. The pictures of the Amboy chute aren't that great. It was buried in the ground for years, no one knows how long. You should be going to the Seattle FBI.

The Seattle FBI examined the Amboy chute initially and announced there were no identifying markings on it. Then they said there WERE. Right away, this is a problem. How hard is it to lay out a chute and take a good look at it for evidence? Then they said it was the right size, the right color, and found in what they called the prime landing zone.

They supposedly consulted outside experts, but only by phone. Don't believe it? Ask them.

The one organization who was allowed to examine and analyze the physical evidence in the Cooper case and then create a world-class website on it, the Citizen Sleuths, were not allowed access to the chute. As Tom Kaye said:

Quote

'We have, I have begged Curtis in person to no avail. (to see the Amboy chute) I am not even sure its in the Seattle office...'



The Sleuths now have a standing offer to go to the site where the chute was discovered and dig for more evidence. It's on their website.

No harness or container were found with the Amboy chute, meaning someone removed them and took them elsewhere. Or they are still undiscovered nearby, and if found, would identify the chute. And somebody took the trouble to bury the canopy, as well.

In a score or more of nationally and internationally published articles, Earl Cossey is quoted repeatedly saying he dismissed the chute as Cooper's because it was silk and not nylon.

However, it is unlikely that the chute is actually MADE of silk.

In the end, the Seattle FBI dismissed the chute as Cooper's without giving an actual reason on how they determined this. Not one.

Five years later, in response to inquiries about the Amboy chute asking for any reason the chute was dismissed, the Seattle FBI says:

Quote

'It is evidence in an ongoing case...'



Maybe a FOIA request is in order here. How do you REALLY know the truth?

And the truth on that is this: You don't.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RobertMBlevins

All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)



At this point we don't have enough information to know whether he was right or wrong.

Additionally, the FBI said that Cossey was not the only source they relied upon.. whether you believe them or not, or spin anything else that they said -- it was reported that other experts were consulted. And please....... I know all of your arguments -- they just aren't sustainable.

As for as them saying it is still evidence in a case, I think that is just their standard response: on-going case and can't comment. Face it, unfortunately, they don't have to tell us anything.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smokin99

***All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)



At this point we don't have enough information to know whether he was right or wrong.

Additionally, the FBI said that Cossey was not the only source they relied upon.. whether you believe them or not, or spin anything else that they said -- it was reported that other experts were consulted. And please....... I know all of your arguments -- they just aren't sustainable.

As for as them saying it is still evidence in a case, I think that is just their standard response: on-going case and can't comment. Face it, unfortunately, they don't have to tell us anything.

Actually, I have to hand it to the Seattle FBI for answering my very occasional questions. They return the email, they call the office. It was only when I asked about the Amboy chute that they told me it was still evidence.

I'm a fairly straightforward guy. My next question would be, 'How could it be evidence if it was dismissed as evidence five years ago?' Makes sense to me. :)
I hope I'm not the only one who asks these type of questions.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkBennett

*********

There was some discussion from 2010 on this site for example this one

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3947064#3947064

saying that "silk" parachute after the 1930s, weren't really silk anymore, but some material that looked like silk. If there were any issues of biodegradation or lack thereof, that could be why.

I'm just posting what I read. I encourage anyone with more knowledge than me to comment.



Yes, I remember reading this. And he is probably right as far as nylon was the norm for parachutes and overall, silks were gone.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I just don't think it is historically accurate as to manufacturing, sale, or export of silk chutes fro the mills. Yes by 1946, the majority of manufacturers had crossed over, but not all. I looked at some mfg data, export, and government data when all this was discussed way back when and it "appears" that some mills were still mfg real silk parachutes in 1946. But hey, maybe that was leftover inventory and they went on and used it instead of cutting it all up into hankies.

LOL...I just think about betamax. Think how long that tried to hang around after it was clear they were gone. Okay maybe that analogy is a stretch, but think about it from a mfg point of view. When nylon came around it didn't just appear when all the silk was gone and all of a sudden overnight everyone is using this great new stuff. Nylon had to be tested. ........So it's tested and Now it's the new thing, but you aren't gong to be able to switch overnight. Even after you do switch, what are you gonna do with the leftover silk - that's a lot of scarves......so you call up Joe who you happen to know in procurement for the forestry service and say you've got some old chutes in the back that are already sewn up.....make you a good deal. Silk worked 4 years ago...it still works. Maybe it's the cultural goggles thing but I just can't imagine that everything turned on a dime back then....

And then again, I could be wrong.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
During the war - silk was almost impossible to find...old wedding dresses were remade just so the bride could wear silk. My mother and father married in 1938.

Too own a silk fan to use at church was a luxury during the war....I was only a baby, but I heard the stories told by my Aunts and my grandmother and great grandmother.

In 1960 when I got married silk was an easy find - I should know - I got married in 1960 and so did some of my friends.

I still have a silk war time fan my Great Aunt willed to me - I was named after their daughter who died at the age of 19....during the Flapper days.

Her daughters room was the same as it was the day she died...I was not allowed to go there, but did slip in one day & got caught. I told my aunt I just wanted to know about she was like....she just didn't want me in that room. Their home was very luxurious for the day.

When I spent the nights with them I had to sleep in the same bed with the two of them - they were very large individuals & was always afraid they would roll over on me. It was the only heated room in the winter besides the kitchen. As I got older I refused do go there...but still wanted to know about my name sake...My aunt and uncle were very closed mouth about her...but, I NEVER knew why. She was 19 when she died & I do not know what her ailment was. Her pictures looked very healty & very pretty...it was always a secret and now there is no one to ask now that I would like to pass the story on down the road...

So many of us have heard the stories of the past & we didn't write them down & now the history is lost.

I think that is why this thread has been so valuable to me. I is my exploration of Cooper....and the man who told me he was Dan Cooper 9 days before he died.
I do believe and know with all of my heart and soul that IF Duane Weber was NOT Cooper - he knew who was.

I believe Duane Weber was actually Cooper or I would not have pursued this for 18 yrs. A picture recently found shows Weber at the age of 19/20 yrs. He is wearing a uniform and he is with 2 other individuals...and it was NOT Navy. If it was not Weber it was his twin.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RobertMBlevins

******All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)



At this point we don't have enough information to know whether he was right or wrong.

Additionally, the FBI said that Cossey was not the only source they relied upon.. whether you believe them or not, or spin anything else that they said -- it was reported that other experts were consulted. And please....... I know all of your arguments -- they just aren't sustainable.

As for as them saying it is still evidence in a case, I think that is just their standard response: on-going case and can't comment. Face it, unfortunately, they don't have to tell us anything.

Actually, I have to hand it to the Seattle FBI for answering my very occasional questions. They return the email, they call the office. It was only when I asked about the Amboy chute that they told me it was still evidence.

I'm a fairly straightforward guy. My next question would be, 'How could it be evidence if it was dismissed as evidence five years ago?' Makes sense to me. :)
I hope I'm not the only one who asks these type of questions.

Believe it or not, no you're not.

My response to you would be, "You are wanting the government to be logical. That on its face is illogical." :)
Really, I think the point is they are not going to discuss it with you or let Tom Kaye have it ....and whatever reason they give for that is as good as the next. Because it's their government speak for "No and we don't really have to have a reason".

Why do they still insist that this is an on-going case would be my question. Let us have all the stuff. You'll never get a conviction if you caught him trying to pass a 20 at the curb store tomorrow. :D:D
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1943 and 1964 that was 71 and 51 yrs...is it time for the GOVERNMENT to release the truths?

If the do not there are those who will do their best to make AMERICA look bad.
Fess up to the secrets NOW & spare yourself the disgrace. The secrets no longer need to be kept.

We were promised several yrs ago the truths would be told - but the government only presented the things we already knew. All who had any sense at all knew Area 51, was not about aliens just government secrets....things that are common today - advancement of the electronics world & the fact the government actual stole the info off of one brilliant veteran...who was never given recognition.

AWARE was very involved in the construction of the air strips and the towers. But that was only part of the secret.

Secret CIA operations to train and arm Tibetan freedom fighter against the Chinese Communists....it was called Intermountain Communications. The very place they trained at was the same place that was used for another special group in 1943.

Individuals who did NOT fit the molded requirements such as vision and other health conditions - the US thought did NOT make a good Soldier.

In 1964 approx another group trained there & they recuited some who had trained there in 1940's...but the mission was different this time...they needed individuals who would never be missed & who needed the money - one word for it was Fortune Hunters...they also knew they might not survive - they would just come up missing, like the father of the man whose daughter I befriended only to have a cheap shot taken for the information I had coveted for yrs. Ex-con were perfect for this mission.

I was taught a vauable lesson - do not befriend ANYONE regardless of how sad their story is...protect yourself & have no heart ...I know where her father is buried, but she doesn't want to know...and I wasnt supposed to make the connections.

Old women and technology and a telephone and persistence and lots of REAL friends over the yrs...

Now the secrets are being revealed. It is no secret NOW. Duane Weber was part of the 1943/44 group in Colo and then again in 1964 with Air America. Why the hell do some of you think the files are still closed.

WELL, due to technology and so many individuals willing to keep on searching for the truths - the secrets are No longer a secret and the longer the government keeps secrets the worse they look to others.

The FBI and the CIA and or Government knows Duane Weber (or whatever name he was using) was there in 1943/44 and he was there in 1963/64. Families of ligitimate soldiers & warriors tell the stories about their family members & they post pictures they had NO idea after 71 yrs would open up a can of worms.

A picture that put Weber someplace he was NOT supposed to be in 1943/44.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrshutter45

Amateur Radio Callsigns in the United States
Class Size Format Letters Example
Group A Amateur Extra Class Four characters 1-by-2 K, N, or W plus two letters W1AW
2-by-1 AA-AL, KA-KZ, NA-NZ, or WA-WZ plus one letter AB0C
Five characters 2-by-2 AA-AL plus two letters AB2MH
Group B Advanced Class[18] Five characters 2-by-2 KA-KZ, NA-NZ, or WA-WZ plus two letters NZ9WA
Group C Technician or General Classes Five characters 1-by-3 K, N, or W plus three letters K9DOG
2-by-2
(location specific) KL, NL, or WL; NP or WP; KH, NH, or WH, plus two letters KL5CD
Group D Novice,[18] Club, and Military Recreations Stations; and sequentially to Technician or General Six characters 2-by-3
(Novice or Club) KA-KZ, WA-WZ plus three letters KA2DOG
2-by-3
(Sequential) KA-KZ plus three letters KN0WCW

care to explain KAJW4899? maybe it was BR-549?


______________________________________________

"Care to explain KAJW4899? maybe it was BR-549?"

CB radio licence callsign, smarty pants! Gees, you are always wrong on everything it seems. It is the only thing I can rely on with complete certainty. I don't remember my Hodgman callsign, but BR-549 sounds close. That sucker had some POWER!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RobertMBlevins

All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)
EDIT: You guys are asking the wrong questions, and seeking out the wrong sources. The pictures of the Amboy chute aren't that great. It was buried in the ground for years, no one knows how long. You should be going to the Seattle FBI.

The Seattle FBI examined the Amboy chute initially and announced there were no identifying markings on it. Then they said there WERE. Right away, this is a problem. How hard is it to lay out a chute and take a good look at it for evidence? Then they said it was the right size, the right color, and found in what they called the prime landing zone.

They supposedly consulted outside experts, but only by phone. Don't believe it? Ask them.

The one organization who was allowed to examine and analyze the physical evidence in the Cooper case and then create a world-class website on it, the Citizen Sleuths, were not allowed access to the chute. As Tom Kaye said:

Quote

'We have, I have begged Curtis in person to no avail. (to see the Amboy chute) I am not even sure its in the Seattle office...'



The Sleuths now have a standing offer to go to the site where the chute was discovered and dig for more evidence. It's on their website.

No harness or container were found with the Amboy chute, meaning someone removed them and took them elsewhere. Or they are still undiscovered nearby, and if found, would identify the chute. And somebody took the trouble to bury the canopy, as well.

In a score or more of nationally and internationally published articles, Earl Cossey is quoted repeatedly saying he dismissed the chute as Cooper's because it was silk and not nylon.

However, it is unlikely that the chute is actually MADE of silk.

In the end, the Seattle FBI dismissed the chute as Cooper's without giving an actual reason on how they determined this. Not one.

Five years later, in response to inquiries about the Amboy chute asking for any reason the chute was dismissed, the Seattle FBI says:

***'It is evidence in an ongoing case...'


Maybe a FOIA request is in order here. How do you REALLY know the truth?

And the truth on that is this: You don't.

______________________________________________

"However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute... "

You have to discount Cossey completely and not believe anything he said because he was part of the operation. He was the "go-to-guy" for the FBI to get the chutes. I know for a fact that the "X" chute was packed by Bill, not Cossey, and the chutes were intentionally stored with Cossey specifically for this operation. I clearly remember the entire conversation. Bill preferred the "older" chutes because they were better. It was the FBI that screwed things up on the retrieval of the chutes. I talked with Cossey about it. His comment to me and others was, "There are a lot of very important people involved here..." I can give you the list again, if you would like. That's the REAL truth of the matter. Not some cabin boy fairy story brewed up in the far reaches of your mind at the request of our mutual friend. Gotcha! You are an open book, Blev.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blevins
" You say EDIT: You guys are asking the wrong questions, and seeking out the wrong sources. The pictures of the Amboy chute aren't that great. It was buried in the ground for years, no one knows how long. You should be going to the Seattle FBI"

I can tell from looking at the two photos that the Amboy chute is not rip-stop nylon.

so get over it and forget about the Amboy chute.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I already have the Word doc original version of Bruce's book



When I said, I could even read "crap"... I meant it metaphorically :D


Quote

I have pretty much all the mainstream Cooper books and two copies of Ha Ha Ha, which isn't mainstream but is fairly well written. Can you believe it?



Suggest me a few titles and I am game. Thanks for suggesting Skyjack...just finished reading it. I was aiming for yours next "Into the Blast" .... it was 2nd in the list of suggested reading in Skyjack ... so might as well.


Quote


I also have a big surprise for everyone tomorrow. But it isn't KC or Cooper-related, or about Bruce's book or anything. It does have to do with Kindle and Amazon though. Let's just say that due to sharp readers and the fact I do have (some) fans who figured out the truth, I had to make some 'adjustments'.



Since my tomorrow happens before yours, I hope I haven't missed the news yet :P

Quote


'In March of 2008, a parachute was discovered buried in Amboy, WA that the Seattle FBI said in articles was the right color and size to the one used by skyjacker 'DB Cooper'......They called my office and said that the 'Amboy Chute' was 'evidence in an ongoing investigation,' even though they had dismissed it as evidence five years previously. See my July 2013 email to them and judge for yourself.



Isn't this a hoax made up by Larry Carr...at least that's what I gathered by reading Skyjack...What am I missing here??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since nobody asked my opinion… I feel compelled to give it.

It is on the recent Bestseller “Skyjack…The Hunt for D.B.Cooper”.

I am glad I read the book, it’s something I’ve been saying for a while now that irrespective of whether KC, DW, McCoy, Barabara Dayton etc. etc. are DBC or not, it can still be presented in a way which can, not just be readable but can also be entertaining enough to be Bestsellers.

With Geoff Gray’s book, I stand corrected!!


For those who have not read it, it is seriously not worth mentioning here on DZ as most people here (well including me actually, the Cooper Commoner) can easily give a run to Geoff Gray for his money. Let’s just say, in terms of commerce, he got away with most with least invested, at least so far. (although the book promises that 2 more books by members of DZ are on way…so let’s see)

Anyways, Skyjack is a cacophony of accounts, DBC suspects..ALL OF THEM (literally), quotes from here at DZ, mentions about it members and a rather lame attempt of adding the Martin Luther King & Kennedy angle to it….way to go Mr. Gray… I am just glad aliens did not feature beyond just the passing mentions. And Spoiler Alert: Vietnam features rather heavily along with needless to say Nixon & his "suits".

Actually the connection of this book with DBC is just a coincidence...Geoff Gray would've written DOT the same book irrespective of which unsolved crime it was about. :D:D

(Also with that I would like my LOKI theory to be considered officially as well :P)

I, however, have a renewed respect for this forum after finishing the book as the author has literally primarily based his book and “research” on this forum, it’s many members and has quoted many posts from here. (He has very graciously acknowledged them but I am guessing that is primarily for lack of an option. Still!)

Besides the entertainment value, in terms of quality the book offers nothing to no one and ends in a rather disappointing ending of adding one more conspiracy to it, in the name of someone who is “referred” as Jack because …. Well you guessed it right …. he wants to remain anonymous (so I am guessing another “deathbed” confession and Part II of the book)

Read it as a rather long gossip column and if you are reading the e version, stop at around page 400 something…it just goes South from there on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try to comment on your questions in order. Short version. :)No comment on Bruce's book. There aren't that many Cooper books that give more than a re-hashing of the case. His goes beyond that. I support it for this reason. Since I have a Cooper-related book out there myself, it wouldn't be fair for me to review it or give opinions.

Skyjack: Good and bad parts to this book. Would be better book if my co-author and private investigator Skipp Porteous would have kept Gray informed on the investigation into Christiansen. Blast: Published four years ago now. We learned a lot more about old Kenny Christiansen since that time. The basics are solid, but I would not rely on it totally for all the answers on Kenny.

Big Surprise: I released a book recently under a pen name and got found out pretty quick. Even my mother figured it out. I had to go to Amazon and change the cover and a few things inside the book. Right now, Amazon's preview of the book shows the old cover with 'Julia Broussard' as the author. The actual book being delivered is the new one. They should have this fixed by tomorrow. :S

Amboy chute 2008: No, not a hoax. And if you gauge the chances, probably NOT Cooper's chute. But...the FBI's explanation of it is a bit lame, too.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Skyjack: Good and bad parts to this book. Would be better book if my co-author and private investigator Skipp Porteous would have kept Gray informed on the investigation into Christiansen. Blast: Published four years ago now. We learned a lot more about old Kenny Christiansen since that time. The basics are solid, but I would not rely on it totally for all the answers on Kenny.



I don't think your evidences have anything to do with Geoff Gray... Porteous n you introduced Gray with an interesting and commercially bankable subject.... and let's just say Gray flew with it.

There's not even an iota of SENSE in that book...it's pure SENSATION!


I mean he just fell short of including Big Foot & The Wow Signal :D:D:D ....

Ms. Jo... you SHOULD read the book... his descriptions about your posts are rather "INFORMATIVE" :P and let's get real he's otherwise outright condescending about MOST members on here and have only used their personal lives and pasts, COMPLETELY unrelated to DBC, just to spice up his book. ("Charlene" episode is the most blatant example of that)

It may be Commerce but then how is it any different from Bruce knocking on Mucklow and family's door and then writing nasty public articles about them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smokin99

***Since nobody asked my opinion… I feel compelled to give it.



lol.... then you'll fit right in with the rest of us. :)
Here's another opinion. I have forgiven Skipp Porteous, but it's going to bug me from now until forever that he cut Geoff Gray out of the loop during the most critical time of the investigation into Christiansen. I will never forget getting Gray's book from Amazon on the day of release.

I read it pretty much through in a single day. And I knew by the first twenty pages that something was wrong. Where was any mention of the Geestmans', or Dawn Androsko, or Helen Jones? Porteous told me he was updating Gray on our investigation. I remember thinking 'WTF' is going on? Then when I talked to Gray at Third Place Books in Seattle, he told me what happened. So I gave him this 4GB flash drive with everything we had on KC up to that point. Well...so what. Kind of late for that now. His book was already out.

Water under the bridge. I never cared WHO got credit for what when or where. Was just trying to figure out the truth about Christiansen. That truth remains unproven, undiscovered. And I think part of that has to go to Porteous. Can you imagine Gray going around and talking to the same folks I did? Maybe he could have figured the deal out on old Kenny.

I don't know. There is a great deal of circumstantial evidence against Kenny, and a fair amount of solid witness testimony...but nothing linking him directly to the hijacking except the admission by Mrs. Geestman in her last interview. And a whole bag of lies by Bernie Geestman. We could toss in Bernie's niece saying she saw Kenny perhaps creating a phony bomb right before the hijacking. But that is not proof enough. I like what Decoded cast member Buddy Levy said about Christiansen though:

Quote

"He's either D.B. Cooper, or it's the biggest set of coincidences in history..."



So. One or the other but no one knows. I'm hoping at some point the Seattle FBI talks to the Geestman family, as well as Bernie himself. There are too many witnesses in that family now claiming that Bernie and Kenny were gone for a week over that Thanksgiving. So where did they go, what were they doing, and why did Bernie tell Decoded that sure...Kenny could be the guy...when he knew perfectly well they were together that week? They should ask him that.

Associate producer Peter Berg (Decoded) told me how it went down with Bernie Geestman. They talked to him for a few hours and got less than five minutes of film they could actually use. Berg said the cast would ask him questions like, 'Where were you the week of the hijacking?' and he would just stare at them and not say a word.

Cut. Let's try again. And so it went. In the end, he says I lied about everything and that yes...Kenny could be the hijacker. Berg said he often just SAT there in response to questions. Not a single word. Just stared at them. The whole film crew started to wonder why the hell he bothered making the drive from Port Angeles. The main cameraman, the same guy who does the underwater shots for Ice Road Truckers, is also a member of the LA County Sheriffs Dept. He told me he thought Geestman was not only being evasive, but lying to them.

Cut. Let's try again. :)
Oh, there is an update. Lyle Christiansen is sending me a couple of photo albums that belonged to Kenny. The pictures are behind little plastic sheets. He thinks the FBI might be able to get Kenny's prints off the pictures. It's doubtful Kenny's prints still exist in Army records, due to the 1973 fire. Only a one in five chance, since 80% of the records were destroyed.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RobertMBlevins

******Since nobody asked my opinion… I feel compelled to give it.



lol.... then you'll fit right in with the rest of us. :)
Here's another opinion. I have forgiven Skipp Porteous, but it's going to bug me from now until forever that he cut Geoff Gray out of the loop during the most critical time of the investigation into Christiansen. I will never forget getting Gray's book from Amazon on the day of release.



LOL, Robert, you blame poor ol porteous for everything........give the guy a break......if Gray had wanted to include anything more about Kenny, pretty sure he could have gotten it here.......or just picked up the phone and called the man.

I never got the idea that Gray's book was just about Kenny per se. He was just one of the several that he hit on and there's only so much space. Frankly, the general consensus seems to be that Geoff lost his cooper jones towards the end anyway.....I wouldn't let it bug me forever.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

LOL, Robert, you blame poor ol porteous for everything........give the guy a break......if Gray had wanted to include anything more about Kenny, pretty sure he could have gotten it here.......or just picked up the phone and called the man.

I never got the idea that Gray's book was just about Kenny per se. He was just one of the several that he hit on and there's only so much space. Frankly, the general consensus seems to be that Geoff lost his cooper jones towards the end anyway.....I wouldn't let it bug me forever.



Well...I just said that. Gray's book starts out with Christiansen and he is heavily covered in the book. But it is incomplete. And it is true that Skipp Porteous deliberately kept all information we were collecting out of Gray's hands. There was a strict confidentiality thing going, and Porteous did this only because of the book, and the fact he knew Gray was working on one as well. I had no way at that time to contact Gray on my own, and I didn't try because Porteous told me he was still speaking to him occasionally. He was...he just wasn't telling him anything. I also know Gray traveled around the Northwest interviewing and working with others involved in the Cooper case. Had he known that I was actually interviewing witnesses on Christiansen...people he knew nothing about...he would have undoubtably wanted to interview these people. And independent interviews done with these folks would have been better than just me standing up there alone with these witnesses.

Also, it cost me a lot of extra work, since after the book and the TV show came out I had more people coming out of the woodwork...like Geestman's family for example. If Gray had interviewed the previous witnesses, he probably would want to talk to the family today. But the last time I heard from Gray he told me he was (more or less) out of the Cooper business. I think I've gathered the best evidence available on Christiansen now, complete with names, phones, emails, and home addresses. Whether the Seattle FBI will ever bother trying to contact these people I haven't a clue.

I did hear recently that they are not satisfied with just the PDF. They want a paper copy. Okay, fine. Don't know why they can't just hit 'print' on their computers though. The parameters on the PDF, which I created with Adobe Acrobat, are set to High Quality Print. :S Sure. I will print one up and send it to them. But I will wait until the photo albums with Kenny's prints arrive. This is because I can't just send those off blindly. I will have to deliver the print version and the photo albums in person. I need to get a receipt or something. They can have them long enough to dust for prints or whatever, then I need to get them back and send them back to Lyle Christiansen.

Quote

"Tell me this isn't a government operation..."

Ed Harris, Apollo 13




Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

"...There are too many witnesses in that family now claiming that Bernie and Kenny were gone for a week over that Thanksgiving. So where did they go, what were they doing..."




Maybe they were, um, partying with Jumping Jack Cash, you know that Jack Collins guy and his Northwest 727 captain brother, Brad Collins' Uncle Buddy.

Or Wolfie? Nobody knows where he was on T-Day, '71, either. Or Richard McCoy - he was missin', too, except that Russ and Bernie found him Las Vegas, but Seattle says "nah"...

Barb missed the turkey, too.

Not sure on Duane, but I'm sure Jo can fix that gap in a jiffy.

Braden? I dunno.

LD - well, he made it to Momma's on Friday, but a bit banged up and squished in Dewey's UK sports car.

Burnworth? He was in Germany with the girls.

Lots of guys not at the T-Day dinner table, if you know what I mean....

Hey, BK, where were you? Watching football on TV? Whose TV? Whadda the crew do after the mission was over?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was Sheridan cooking a turkey in Nepal? If the FBI belived his mud hut alibi they wouldnt have come back requesting a DNA swab.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I saw Bruce's post on Christiansen and Geestman. I don't think I will bother to answer that one. If we knew exactly where they were beyond the property in Oakville, WA...then the whole case with these two would become clear. We know they went to Oakville first, because Geestman said before he left he was going camping in the new trailer, and that's where the trailer was parked. After that, who can say?

Regarding Sheridan Petersen, we know he had a daughter born in Nepal the year prior to the hijacking, and evidence has been presented he was on scene at her birth. The FBI may not have known this. It is hard to say what the FBI knew and didn't know when they investigated him. However, the blue eyes with him are a problem. You might mistake hazel for brown, since they very similar. But it's more difficult to say someone mistook blue for brown. That's quite a stretch.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thousandthings


It may be Commerce but then how is it any different from Bruce knocking on Mucklow and family's door and then writing nasty public articles about them?



Gray KNEW better than to speak badly of me - he like another person who spent some time in my home - knows I have a lot of things never discussed....and I do not mean Sluggo.

I have NOT contrived the story I have told & anyone who meets me or knows me knows I can tease (only in the written word), but actually cannot tell a lie....face to face. I read like an open book! Gray was at least courteous regarding my character...he made me sound like a prude - but, I know why he did that. I did not agree with some of the things he said about me - but, I read the book one time & that was it. I marked things as I read it in the event I had to discuss these things in the future.

I LIKED the way he ended his book - he had NO choice, but to crawl into the hole with me. It was not his intended ending.

He actually thought he could solve the case & earnestly put money & time into it...but all he did was run into rabbit holes that went NO WHERE. He just ended up running down one rabbit holes to so he ended the story in the hole with the Tomatoe cans....That ending was very appropriate.

As for the man who supposedly contacted Grey on the end - I think that was PURE fiction, but I didn't care...if there was a thread of truth in his ending about the contact - then that just buys into a conspiracy story and leaves it open for ANOTHER book someday in the future when there is NO one to counter what he writes.

There was NO russett sweater - but I do not know who first introduced a russett sweater other than a witness who claims he saw Cooper walking near the logging roads & contacted the FBI in 1971. That is a proven contact on my part and he claims the FBI never acknowledged it. His wife and other family members said it was true and that they all contacted the FBI about this...but outside of their accounting and what I told about their accounting I have no knowledge if the FBI really did contact them....I believe them because we have had a continued relationship since 2001.

They both lived under the original proposed flight path as did others I interviewed...but, I do not sell my story - it is here only so that I have a voice & hopefully someday someone will realized what I have spent my life trying to tell. The story Duane told me is the only story that has ever made sense of the ground sitings and reports - but, I didn't know that for a long long time...I just repeated the stories I had been told.

Most were perfect stranger when Margie Boule did her story.....the one contact I should have followed but neighter if NOR Margie thought it was solid....It was actually the most solid lead I had - but now he is deceased - died in 2004.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why I believe GEORGER knows things & hides things. He very briefly put up an obit on this man - & took it down. He didn't know I knew this was the man Duane had spoke of - his name was an Indian name - the first name being Joaquim....not sure I spelled it right.

ODD do you not think that Georger (JW) of all people knew who I was looking for & the man who attempted to contact me in 2001 thru Margie....

Later a wonderful man htis person contacted tried to help him get his story told & went to Himmelsbach on his behalf & attempted to get something done where he could not be prosecuted for coming forward with what he knew....the legal papers they filed actually exist.

Himmelsbach would not talk about this but verified the story was true.

Well, this story some of you know. The State of WA said they could not grant the man immunity & he would have to file with the USA government in WA. He just let it go - he knew he had cancer when he attempted to contact me in 2001....

A well, know sky jumper from the N.E. also knows this story as he was the one contacted by this man & the man did what he could....as he had done for me.

Writers like Bruce, Gray, Blevins & all of the othersnever made the grade regarding the depth of this story....I did because it was personal & not just a story to be told.
I was married for 17 yrs to a man who confessed to the crime and had the knowledge and reasons - the things he tried so desperately to relate to me.

Damn Dumb Bunny!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smokin99



I never got the idea that Gray's book was just about Kenny per se. He was just one of the several that he hit on and there's only so much space. Frankly, the general consensus seems to be that Geoff lost his cooper jones towards the end anyway.....I wouldn't let it bug me forever.



That was FUNNY! At least I can sign off with a laugh! Got a busy day tomorrow.

By the way - "Cooper Jones" - I like that one! For personal reasons it was good chuckle for me.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

18 18