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DB Cooper

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If you would like to read Chapter 1 of DB Cooper and the FBI, it is now posted in full at the Mountain News:

http://themountainnewswa.net/2015/03/17/db-cooper-and-the-fbi-a-case-study-of-americas-only-unsolved-skyjacking-published-on-amazon-kindle/#comment-28964

You can also read another stream of commentary, as Galen has adopted the MN as his current fave site to share his views.

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RobertMBlevins

***lol...Good night, for real this time.

I'm betting myself 100 dollars to my favorite charity that I will respond if he posts again.

lol...got to see how strong the addiction is.......



Well, you asked the same damn question three times, like I'm your personal Google researcher...

Then when I took the time to screenshot and edit the actual email I sent the Seattle FBI...where it mentions I referenced the articles...

You didn't even bother with an answer. So next time, don't bother asking. Save us both a lot of time. :)
lol...are you serious? I don't know why I bother but....

1. I didn't bother with an answer because you have yet to produce an iota of verification to back up your claims so it is useless to go round and round and round.

2. You sending an email to the FBI is not proof of anything. It's just an email. I send a bunch every day. Does it mean I got a response. No, it means nada. Besides you said you read what the FBI said in an article. I say prove it. You didn't. But I'm gonna let you off the hook - you can quit being "my personal google researcher" nowB|.

3. I bet myself that I would respond to you. It's called reverse psychology with self. I won. I made a donation to the local food bank anyway.

4. As to Cossey, had you bothered to read the post that I made to you, you would have seen this which pretty much tells you I'm done with the conversation because it is useless to try to discuss anything with you:

Quote

....In the excerpt I posted it is obvious that he was referring to this ownership in the vein of "yes, they're mine because I put them together." To refresh your memory or in case you missed it, the following excerpt from the Oregonian, dated November 26, 1971..

The parachute backpack on which the hijacker depended was a new rig specifically made for stunt fliers, not skydivers and had never been used, "Yep, that's my chute," said Earl Cossey, president of Seattle Sky Sports when the parachute and harness were described to him. Both backpacks supplied the hijacker were made by Cossey, but owned by Norman Hayden, a stunt pilot at Renton Aviation Co.

lol....but you know what -- lucky for you, I'm done with this. Going in for a dropzone intervention.
I will give you that he claimed ownership in a backhanded way. Hell....I'm feeling the wine, I mean magnanimous --- so I will even give you that he claimed this outright to other news media besides Bruce if you need that.

This is a silly argument when the end result is the same. But I do not feel bad about trying to keep you and the narrative honest.


So the takeaway:....

Call Ol Coss a liar and a fraud, and try to pretend that he is irrelevant. What I say is that he is most likely a victim of human frailty -- in that the fish just kept getting bigger and bigger. Kind of reminds me of some other folks I know.

Yet and still, his non-ownership / non-delivery and/or misrepresentation of same does NADA to change the fact that his knowledge of the parachutes, as a master rigger of those chutes, was superior to that of someone that never used and likely never saw the chutes. Tunnel vision just prevents you from giving credit where credit is due.



5. On another matter while I'm on a roll and before I get bored with this again......Bruce never asked anyone for a "shill" review. Never, Not Once. So get over yourself. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :)
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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BruceSmith

If you would like to read Chapter 1 of DB Cooper and the FBI, it is now posted in full at the Mountain News:

http://themountainnewswa.net/2015/03/17/db-cooper-and-the-fbi-a-case-study-of-americas-only-unsolved-skyjacking-published-on-amazon-kindle/#comment-28964

You can also read another stream of commentary, as Galen has adopted the MN as his current fave site to share his views.



Something's hinky with my firefox tonight - not loading pages all the way - guess it's telling me I need to get off the internet and go to bed -- only read the first part but looks to be very interesting so far.

Anyway ...I got my copy - just saving it for the weekend. Dead tired
from staying up too late wrestlin alligators and swimming with sharks. (lol...and no I'm not talking about Blevins :D:D - I'm doing taxes and then trying to do a full day at the coal mine. Us girls never get a break. Anyway -- looking good so far!
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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'On another matter while I'm on a roll and before I get bored with this again......Bruce never asked anyone for a "shill" review. Never, Not Once. So get over yourself. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.'



Not a problem. This is not about me. Here's the definition of a 'shill' review: It's when you release a book and then ask people you know to review it for you at Amazon, rather than waiting for the professional reviewers, or non-vested folks to review it. And...this is done sometimes at Amazon, often by new authors. And...the folks there who have done thousands of reviews of all products at Amazon know it, too.

So...when these people realize that shills are being posted, sometimes they decide to teach you a lesson by deliberately trashing your book in their OWN review, to keep you from gaming the star rating system. This battle has been going on at Amazon for years. Bowker's is the organization selling most of the legit ISBN's for books in America, and is associated with Ingram, the largest distributor of books on the planet. A recent article by them explains some of these things better than I can.

My policy at Adventure Books on shill reviews is pretty strict. For example, if we publish an author's book and I suspect that people they know, or family members, or recruited reviews are being posted for that author, I will ask them about it. If they admit this is happening, I will request those reviews be removed. If the author refuses, I may drop their book from publication.

I gave Bruce good advice, and he already said it was fair. I also gave him a caveat, and a bit of an out. If you are going to recruit people you know, or who are already heavily invested in the Cooper case to review...then for God's sake make sure they BUY the book if they are going to review it. This is because even if the pros at Amazon suspect shills, they will often bypass the ones that say 'Verified Purchase'. And the reviewer should go into some actual details about the book besides 'it's the best ever written on the Cooper case,' etc. That is NOT a review. Within 24 hours of the release of Bruce's book...the first review is a general glowing praise, (no details given about the book at all) by none other than Pat Forman. This is not necessarily bad or anything, but Pat should edit the review and state that she is the author of ANOTHER Cooper book. The fact that she is a verified purchaser, and readers of the review can see she authored another Cooper book...this actually makes the review very solid and believable. You know, like when you see an endorsement on the back of a paperback, and the endorsement is written by 'John Smith, author of (insert book title here, book which relates to YOUR book)

It's no big deal. Just be smart and don't try to game the star system at Amazon. Because sooner or later the Big Boy Reviewers will get tired of it and teach you a lesson. Or Amazon will start removing the reviews. I've been accused of encouraging shill reviews even when I didn't, so you have to watch it a bit.

Quote

'Call Ol Coss a liar and a fraud, and try to pretend that he is irrelevant.'



No. You are misquoting me. I used the truth about ownership and delivery of the chutes to question Cossey's instant rejection of the Amboy chute. Never said he was a 'fraud'. I'm the guy who keeps bugging everybody possible to keep trying to solve his murder. I've even done work on it. On the matter of the Amboy Chute articles, many of them from 2008 are no longer being carried by the host news organizations on their sites. Now I could pay money and use a service, but you could do that as well. And I'm already satisfied that the events and statements the FBI made in different articles actually EXIST...even if they aren't freely available on the internet anymore. I just don't think it is important enough to me to pay the fees just to satisfy you...because I've already seen these articles. Some do have either Laughlin or Burroughs admitting outside chute experts were only contacted by phone. Another says the FBI took the chute up to their lab in Seattle, but it was shown to Cossey the next day at his house. That is pretty much it on the 'unrevealed' revelations here.

You should contact Tom Kaye on this, perhaps. I have his email saying the Citizen Sleuths 'practically begged' (his words in the email) the Seattle FBI to examine the Amboy chute, but they were refused. And the FBI is still claiming to this day that the chute they dismissed in 2008 is 'evidence in an ongoing case'. You figure it out. I only raised the questions, and I still believe they are legit ones.

You know, when I emailed the Seattle FBI, I suggested that maybe they should just name a single solid criteria on why they dismissed it. Something like 'the chute Cooper jumped with was 26' and this one was 32', or 'it's a cargo chute,' or 'our research shows it IS made of silk,' anything really. But this is all I got:

Quote

"It is evidence in an ongoing case..."



Quote

'Something's hinky with my firefox tonight - not loading pages all the way...'



Try clearing your internet cache. You can use the Windows version, but the best free tools for this are Wise Disk Cleaner, Wise Game Booster, (shuts down unnecessary services in the background, which come back on automatically as you need them, very nice program) and Wise Registry Cleaner, (this one actually works without messing up your computer). All free programs. Just make sure you don't agree to any unneccessary toolbars or automatic updates. Happy user for two years.

If you have Windows 7-8, enable the Gadget that shows your current RAM and CPU usage. Looks like two clocks, one smaller than the other, and will appear in the upper right corner. And one big thing that will suddenly slow down your computer is if you enabled automatic download and installation of Windows Updates. Or ANY automatic updates for that matter. Unless you have at least 8GB of RAM, not a good idea. Use settings for Windows updates as: 'Notify Me, But Let Me Decide When to Download and Install'.


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thousandthings

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"Nothing, 1K? You missed my book announcement? I've been working on it for eight years, and surely it's got something in it that might interest you"




I think "YOU-will-interest-me" ... is an Oxymoron ;)


I already have the Word doc original version of Bruce's book, but I think he made extensive changes since then. I will likely pick up a copy once it reaches paperback. I have pretty much all the mainstream Cooper books and two copies of Ha Ha Ha, which isn't mainstream but is fairly well written. Can you believe it? We have 26 books or magazines out there for the Kindle, and I don't even OWN a Kindle. I don't want one, either. I'm kind of old fashioned that way. :)
I also have a big surprise for everyone tomorrow. But it isn't KC or Cooper-related, or about Bruce's book or anything. It does have to do with Kindle and Amazon though. Let's just say that due to sharp readers and the fact I do have (some) fans who figured out the truth, I had to make some 'adjustments'. The whole thing is kind of funny, really. I've been dealing with the 'wait a minute here' messages all frickin' day. Damnit, you just can't fool anybody these days.

The first to figure out what happened was Dear Old Mom. I should have known better than to send her the link at Amazon. I never could fool her, not a bit. And I have to fly down and see her in three weeks in Phoenix.
I know I will hear about it for sure. B|

Some Cooper Folk should consider a Facebook page and a Twitter account. This way, you can get stuff out to people like THIS:
Quote


'In March of 2008, a parachute was discovered buried in Amboy, WA that the Seattle FBI said in articles was the right color and size to the one used by skyjacker 'DB Cooper'. They even said it was located in the prime dropzone for Cooper. Less than ten days later, they discounted it based mostly on the word of Earl Cossey from Woodinville, WA - who had claimed for years that he not only owned the chutes given to Cooper, but delivered them to the airport. Neither of those things are true, according to an FBI document showing that Cossey only packed the chutes as a rigger. But when a Seattle FBI agent put the chute into the trunk of a car and drove it show Cossey, he discounts the chute by saying it was made of silk, and the ones he provided Cooper were ripstop nylon. That story doesn't wash, either. Chute experts galore have seen the 2008 pictures and say the chute presented by the FBI doesn't look like silk, which would have rotted anyway after so many years, because silk is biodegradable. After all of this debate, I finally sent the Seattle FBI a message on this issue. They called my office and said that the 'Amboy Chute' was 'evidence in an ongoing investigation,' even though they had dismissed it as evidence five years previously. See my July 2013 email to them and judge for yourself. Tom Kaye, formerly with the UW's Burke Museum, was leader of a three-person team allowed to examine the Cooper evidence. They published their finds at www citizen sleuths dot com. Kaye told me in an email that he practically begged the Seattle FBI to allow his Citizen Sleuths team access to the Amboy chute, but they were refused. Go figure...'



You wouldn't believe the messages I get. ;)


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Kaye told me in an email that he practically begged the Seattle FBI to allow his Citizen Sleuths team access to the Amboy chute, but they were refused. Go figure...'



When exactly did Tom say this? the email I got from him over a year ago said he never asked about the chute because it was dismissed?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

Quote

Kaye told me in an email that he practically begged the Seattle FBI to allow his Citizen Sleuths team access to the Amboy chute, but they were refused. Go figure...'



When exactly did Tom say this? the email I got from him over a year ago said he never asked about the chute because it was dismissed?


I'll give it to you for nerve. First, you ban me from your Cooper website...allow others to copy over my posts from THIS Cooper site...talking trash mostly about them at YOUR Cooper site...then you come to me with a question.

Fine. Here's your answer: January 16th, 2014.

You really should send a representative for questions, rather than asking them yourself. Everyone does what they feel they must. You can ask me things all day, or challenge whatever you want. Doesn't mean I'm going to discuss anything real with you. ;)


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You were corrected once about this Robert. I have every right to challenge any questions on either forum. you put yourself in the position you are in all by yourself.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

You were corrected once about this Robert. I have every right to challenge any questions on either forum. you put yourself in the position you are in all by yourself.



I don't care about that. If you have any other questions, or 'challenges,' see my modified post above. You don't seem to understand. I have trust issues with you, and you don't make it easy to answer certain questions. What makes you believe I would post emails from Kaye publicly when he's specifically asked me NOT to do that unless he gives permission in the message? I suppose I could screenshot his message and let you see it privately...but I have no way of sending it to you anyway...and no guarantee you wouldn't just make it public on YOUR site.

Nothing I can do here. If you want the answer, ask Tom Kaye. The date I provided will make it easier for him to locate the message for you.


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You can TRY and blame your behavior on me, but we know you didn't have any good intentions for joining under a false name. that's what got you banned. nobody was talking about you until you joined under false pretenses.

I don't send anyone anywhere on the internet. you and Jo need to understand that.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

You can TRY and blame your behavior on me, but we know you didn't have any good intentions for joining under a false name. that's what got you banned. nobody was talking about you until you joined under false pretenses.

I don't send anyone anywhere on the internet. you and Jo need to understand that.



Look, after what I've seen at your site...I don't really want to discuss anything with you or answer your questions. Already explained why, no use going into it further. Everyone makes choices. You made yours, and I have made mine. If you have a question, send someone else. If you don't believe that Tom Kaye sent me an email saying what I quoted, his exact words on the subject, then just go ask HIM. Do you think I would really quote him on something like that and just make it up? LOL he would never speak to me again. I'm not that dumb, you know. I kept his email. I keep all emails except spam. Since 2007.:S

EDIT: Your gall is unbelievable, Shutter. First, you block PM's...then email...then me from your website. Now you come to me asking questions as if you are owed something by me. I owe you nothing, and I can't figure out WHY...if you did all those things...you would even bother communicating with me personally. Think about it. It's ridiculous on its face.


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Your gall is unbelievable, Shutter. First, you block PM's...then email...then me from your website.



Really? lets see, you accused me of taking a video down that had something to do with copyrights, and basically called me a thief. that's why you were blocked from PM's. you had the wrong person you were directing the whole matter to in the first place (what a shock?)

Email? don't know what you are talking about. nobody is blocked on my emails. I have 3 regular emails, and one for work. not a sole is blocked on any of them.

The you say you were blocked from my forum? do we really need to go into this again?

I asked a simple question, and look at the responses over a valid question. if you didn't want to answer it, then you shouldn't of responded in the first place.

I'm going to try and not respond to this endless circle.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.

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MarkBennett

This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



This reminds me of Governor Nelson Rockefeller's famous quote to the media press corps in the 1970s:

"What you think I said is not what I think I meant to say."

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MarkBennett

This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



The truth is that Kaye was quoted correctly. And not only that, but he had ongoing concerns about the Amboy chute. This is plain from his email, and just as plain at his website. I have already quoted both.

I don't believe the date printed on the Amboy chute has anything to do with repacking. It's the Date of Manufacture. And a DOM that reads February 1946 means the chances are close to nil it is actually made of silk.

Same stuff, same argument. Cossey said it was silk. And that's the reason he dismissed it. If he was wrong, then how can you trust his dismissal? If the Seattle FBI says it isn't Cooper's, but doesn't give a reason, just dismisses it...then why would they say it's evidence in an ongoing case five years later? The age of the chute does put it at the extreme end of possibles...maybe...but then it would be the same as jumping today with a parachute made in 1990. Twenty five years old, considering Cooper happened in 1971.

I can't possibly be the only person who wonders about all that, and the fact that no container or harness were found with the chute. Which means someone disconnected them and took them elsewhere. And no one thinks any of these things are strange?

Brother, some of you must be really gullible. :S

While we're on that subject, I have some nice beachfront property about eighty miles NE of Reno you might be interested in. Cheap, too. Picture attached. ;)


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RobertMBlevins

***This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



The truth is that Kaye was quoted correctly. And not only that, but he had ongoing concerns about the Amboy chute. This is plain from his email, and just as plain at his website. I have already quoted both.

I don't believe the date printed on the Amboy chute has anything to do with repacking. It's the Date of Manufacture. And a DOM that reads February 1946 means the chances are close to nil it is actually made of silk.

Same stuff, same argument. Cossey said it was silk. And that's the reason he dismissed it. If he was wrong, then how can you trust his dismissal? If the Seattle FBI says it isn't Cooper's, but doesn't give a reason, just dismisses it...then why would they say it's evidence in an ongoing case five years later?

I can't possibly be the only person who wonders about all that, and the fact that no container or harness were found with the chute. Which means someone disconnected them and took them elsewhere. And no one thinks any of these things are strange?

Brother, some of you must be really gullible. :S

While we're on that subject, I have some nice beachfront property about eighty miles NE of Reno you might be interested in. Cheap, too. Picture attached. ;)


But, the point I was making was that the stories from you and Shutter were not inconsistent. If you had read the thread from January 2014, you'll see that Kaye is quoted as saying they didn't think to ask about the chute when he was granted access to evidence because it had been dismissed. Carr was still the case agent at the time.

Your quote from Tom asking about seeing the chute was obviously later because Eng was the case agent by then.

I'll shorten my post because I see you've edited yours to remove the snarkiness. But, can you be surprised you get the responses you get when you lash out even at people who support your position?

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Problem is...you guys need to go to the source more often. Tom Kaye...Seattle FBI...etc. And Shutter should not come to me with questions after he blocked PM's, email, and his website. I am okay with all of that, (I wouldn't post at his site even if I could, and I look at it anytime I wish) but I really don't want him to come here and try to discuss anything with me because I am not interested. Fair is fair. He didn't want contact or imput from me, so he should stick with that policy.

Anyone else, no problem.

I've kind of reached the point where sharing information has become counter-productive to me. I've seen examples where people come after me when I do, due to whatever reason. It doesn't do any good. I've shifted gears a bit by telling folks WHAT I'm doing in the Cooper case, but not necessarily the results. More and more I am sharing things privately only, with a few select folks I know and trust. I trust them because when I ask them not to say anything publicly about this or that...they respect that. And if you want to know anything private, you should email me anyway, not expect me to just hand it over publicly on the internet. To expect that is foolish.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. Yesterday I said I was going to tell you a funny thing regarding AB and Amazon and the Kindle. Fine. Here it is:

When I released our latest title for the Kindle, the ultra-violent Revenge Story, I used a pen name...'Julia Broussard'. I actually wrote it myself. I wasn't sure how people would take my move from sci-fi to crime. What the heck. Even Stephen King used the name 'Richard Bachman' a couple of times. I made the book a free download for five days at Amazon as an introduction, and hundreds took advantage...including many of my Facebook friends - and my mother, who has a Kindle.

It didn't take long before I started getting messages from readers. I have (a few) fans. And then I got a call from Dear Old Mom, who has every book we've ever produced. She came right out and asked me:

Quote

"Robert? Did you write that book?"



Oh, brother. Yes, mom. I have to face her in three weeks down in Phoenix. Damn. The book is really heinous in parts, like this scene, where our heroes have met up with a guy who can provide them clean passports and a way out the country:

Quote

The four of them went up a flight of stairs lined with plush white carpet and emerged into a living room half the size of a basketball court. Massive picture windows looked out over Lake Washington and a fireplace made of polished stone rose from one end of the room. Oil paintings hung on the walls and a few pieces of expensive-looking sculpture – obviously commissioned – were scattered about. Against a far wall was mounted the largest television they had ever seen, with an integrated video and audio system that was taller than the average man. “Pretty nice setup,” said Ben, staring through the glass door covering the video-audio components. “Business must be good.”

“Business is always good in my trade,” said Woodburn offhandedly. “Everyone wants the weapons they can’t have, and I provide them. The profit margin is good. Why don’t we sit down and talk about how I can help you.”

“So you’ll help us?”

“The sooner I get you out of my life, the safer I’ll be. Why don’t you all have a seat and let’s talk about that.”

Ben found a recliner and sat down. Ray and Karen took the couch.

Woodburn sat down on a marble shelf in front of the fireplace. He shook his head. “I guess I have to ask all of you something.”

“What’s that?” said Ben.

“Do you guys have any idea how much trouble you’re in?”

Ray spoke up. “Excuse me, but that sounds like a dumb question. Of course we do.”

Woodburn got up and went over to a portable bar sitting in the corner. Going around behind it, he pulled out a glass and a bottle of liquor and poured some into the glass. He took a big swallow, but didn’t offer any of them a drink. “I don’t think you realize the extent of the problem, Mr. Morris. There’s a reward for any information leading to your capture. You’re on the fucking TV news cycle twenty-four seven right now. Did you know that?”

Ben Cummings laughed. “How much are they offering?”

“A half-million dollars,” said Woodburn.

Ben eyed him warily. “You were thinking about trying to collect?”

“I don’t need the money, Ben.”

“Well, that’s good,” said Ben. “Because I thought you could be...” He stopped talking as two large men dressed in expensive suits suddenly appeared from another room, both carrying automatic pistols.

“Don’t anybody move,” said Woodburn. He came out from behind the bar holding a revolver. The other men raised their own pistols and took places in front of Ray and Karen.

“What the fuck is this?” said Ben. “I thought you said you didn’t need the money. What are you going to do? Just kill us right here?”

“No. If I wanted you dead, I would have done it in the garage right away. I’m turning your asses over to the F.B.I.”

“You made a deal with the Feds?”

Woodburn laughed. “Do you know how much happy-happy I can get from the cops for this? Shit, they’ll never look my way again. Once in a while, they do get the idea I might be in the gun trade. They aren’t sure about it, but I know my name’s come up a few times. It’s time for me to retire from the business while the going’s good. I was thinking of Aruba.”

“Maybe we’ll just fill them in on your history,” growled Ben. “Fuck you, asshole!”

“Go ahead. Tell them whatever you want about me while you’re sitting in jail. They won’t listen to you. And even if they do, I’ll just have my associates here clear out any inventory I have lying around and move it elsewhere for a while. They won’t find anything. I’ll be the biggest goddamn hero in America. I’ll donate the reward money to the ASPCA and even the animal lovers will worship the fucking ground I walk on.” Woodburn walked up quickly and cocked the pistol, pointing it dead center at Ben’s head. “What in the fuck were you thinking by coming here after what you did?” he shouted. “I was ready to help you, but that was before you killed maybe a dozen cops! You and your friends are too hot to deal with, even for me. You’re not my friend anymore, Ben. You’re a liability.”

“Whatever,” said Ben. “Did you lie about getting us passports, too?”

“No, actually I didn’t. I had those passports commissioned all right. When you deal with this guy, you have to take delivery, and you have to pay, otherwise he will kill you. So I’m letting the passports show up here, not that they will do you any good. But I changed my mind about helping you after you shot down that F.B.I. helicopter. No big deal, Ben. I’ll just pay him off with some of that bank money you stole and burn the passports in my fireplace.”

Karen Morris began to sob and reached into her purse for a handkerchief. She dabbed at her eyes and then laid the handkerchief on the sofa between her and Ray.

Ray sat stock still, but out of the corner of his eye, he spotted a tiny glint of silver under the edge of the handkerchief. It was the 9MM Beretta pistol. He had slipped the pistol to Karen when Woodburn had ordered them out of the van and into the house. Woodburn hadn’t spotted it in her purse. His heart began to pound so hard he thought it would burst from his chest. Woodburn was still shouting things at Ben, but Ray no longer heard a word of it. He was thinking about the gun and whether he had any chance at all to turn the tables. A dozen scenarios raced through his mind in the space of a few seconds. The two hoods in front of him now had their guns pointed more toward Ben than he and Karen. They think Ben’s the real threat.

Ben shouted something back at Woodburn about loyalty, raising his voice higher. The goons shifted their eyes over to him even more.

Ray slipped his right hand under the handkerchief and grasped the pistol. No one noticed. He flipped the safety catch with the barest of movements. The shouting match between Ben and Woodburn reached a fevered pitch.

Then everything seemed to happen in slow motion.

Ray brought the Beretta up smoothly and shot Woodburn in the temple. Crack. Even before Woodburn started to collapse, Ray rose from the couch before anyone could react and squeezed off two more shots in quick succession into the foreheads of the goons. Crack, crack.

All three men fell to the ground with a heavy thud at almost the same moment. A light drift of smoke powder floated from the barrel of the Beretta.

Karen screamed, and then slapped her hands over her mouth, her eyes wide with terror.

Ben threw himself to the floor and snatched up Woodburn’s revolver, wildly looking up for a target. But there was no one to shoot anymore. He looked around at the sudden carnage. It had all happened in the space of two or three seconds.

Large crimson puddles began spreading out on the white carpet from beneath the heads of the three men. Blood flowed from the corner of Woodburn’s mouth. All three of the dead men had a look of surprise permanently embedded on their faces. Ray looked down on them in disdain.

Ben got up from the floor and tucked the revolver into his belt. He looked at Ray as if he didn’t know the man at all. He shook his head in wonder. “Jesus, Ray.”

“Fuck ‘em,” said Morris. “Some friends you got.”



When I get down to see my folks, it's gonna be like 'Lucy...you got some 'splainin to do!' :)


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With what the FBI has on their emails IF they even read them - is a finding NO ONE ever expected.

The information has been forwarded to all who matter & NO one in this thread.


I will provide you guys a hint if U really want to know the answers as to who Cooper REALLY was.

Hale, Colorado.....
Pictures are very very important.
I had researched this before yrs ago,
but now there is something there I had never seen & only told about by Weber.

U guys will recall that Weber was in Colorado & encarcerated....supposedly!
1960 to 1962 & formed a union with a woman in 1962 who he would divorce in 1972.

Immediately after release he spends a few wks with his sister & introduced to another world by his brother-in-law.

Do any of you have any idea where Weber was right after he was discharged from the Navy? Do any of you have any idea where Weber was from 1962 to 1964.

Why did the FBI conceal this or where they ordered to ignore it?

A man Duane knew was wounded & discharged New Yrs. 1945! A man Duane told me about - but, just figured it was just a story.

Remember all of those PATCHES Duane had when he died - the ones I sold to a collector at a garage sale after Weber died?

I am sure 377 remembers.

1943 there was some strange training going on in Colorado....guys who could not pass mustard because of their eye site or other problems - men who made good soldiers, because an organization came to their aid.

A special camp for special people.

Is there a picture of Weber in this camp?
How could that be? In 1943 there were many misfits placed in to specialized traing - some not considered physically capable due to such minor things as vision.

Is there a picture of Weber at this facility?
He definitely knew one of the other men in the picture....because he told me about him, but I didn't know who he was referring to until recently.

Was this the beginning of Weber's on again off again connections to another world?

The authorities will be given a dead line to identify the man in the picture - then I go public trying to find out the name that man used...somewhere there must be a record. I already knew the story yrs & yrs ago and one I tried to tell, but with NO proof.

The connections Weber made at this facility would involve him in other things in the 60's...

I wondered why Duane spoke of these things but I was trying to connect so many dots - and a lot of what is now public was not public 10 yrs ago. Most of the men are deceased and family members are telling their story...this story I already knew because it was a story Weber told me.

At one time I touched on this, but I did not have any physical proof or anything that could make a connection....

Afraid to say anymore in the event it will all go POOF! as so much had done that over the yrs...

Bad timing for me - but, perhaps that is why it is only now being made available...
I want to know MORE & I want to know why I was ignored regarding this - 18 yrs ago.

Old pictures have a way being made public that should never have been, because family members didn't themselves know the significance of the old photos...they were just photos shared by the family as they tell the story about their deceased and picture not intended to be made public. Just a guy sending pictures home to his family....

Of course he had no way to know that one young man would use what he learned to commit a skyjacking in 1971. They after all had been accepted in to a program that allowed them to serve the country they loved.

If there is one pic out there then there must be others & there must be records of some kind....there had to be names. We have no idea what name Weber may have been using.

Surely the CIA or FBI can pull the names of all individuals involved - surely they did not destroy all of the old files. Now we have approx dates and NO reason for the Government to continue to deny deny deny.

Perhaps because Weber was involved in other things after this approx 1943 thing. Remember he supposedly was not in McNeil & yet they used the McNeil prints per Ckret (Carr) & they still use the prints from 1945.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

***This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



..........

On a simpler point, one of the reasons I never believed the dismissal of the chute based on Cossey's 'It's silk, and the one I gave to Cooper was nylon...'

Is because after December 7, 1941 silk production and importation virtually ceased in the United States for some years afterward. The chute is almost certainly not made of silk, and that explanation for dismissal appears in article after article about it. It simply doesn't make sense.



There you go again. I'm no silk expert but this is just historically inaccurate.

First, US production of silk has never been much of a success. That is why we had to import it from other countries, principally Japan.

Second. The US ceasing import of Japanese silk did not mean that all of the stores of silk in the United States disappeared overnight.

Actually what happened in 1941 is that the US government froze the imports and commandeered all existing US companies inventories of silk. The existing stock was mandated for government use only for things like parachutes, surgical sutures, electrical insulation. Processing silk for civilian use was prohibited.

Over the next few years, as the supply dwindled, they had to come up with an alternative. This still did not mean that silk chutes totally disappeared as some companies used up their supply while others quickly re-tooled for the new material. According to export records, we were also still supplying some other countries with silk parachute cloth in the mid to late 40s.

I have posted all of this before as well as documentation that showed that while limited, silk parachutes were still being manufactured in some mills in the mid 40s.

But really - even if the chute was not silk and was a first generation nylon - in the pictures it did not look like rip-stop nylon - even to my untrained eye.

If the chutes supplied to the hijacker were made of the material that was shown at the Washington historical exhibit that Sailsaw posted....then all the wishes in the world won't turn it into what has been photographed as the Amboy chute.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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Yes, fair is fair. you screwed up with your little stunt. if you don't wish to reply, that's how that works. I don't turn my blocks on and off like you do.

I have gone to the source. the source doesn't really agree with your conclusion at this point. I'm waiting for a second response.

This started back in January of 2014. you were claiming for several years that Tom was denied, and stonewalled while asking to see the chute while at the office of the FBI. that wasn't the case at all. he never asked to see it. that's straight from the source.

When someone makes a claim the first thing you do is confront that person for more information. if one is not satisfied at that point, then yes you go directly to the source, if you can.

If he did ask years later, you can't expect the FBI to have a revolving door for you to return anytime you wish. if they dismissed the chute, it's still considered part of the investigation. the policy doesn't permit discussion about an open case.

You will probably get the same results asking for anything, for example, the test results on the money found on Tina Bar (FBI results) or the complete results of the drop test.

You will probably not get an answer to who suspect #24 was, or anything involved with the case itself. it's open, and they will not discuss it with who ever wishes to see something. I agree that they should be a little more open with this case, but they follow strict guidelines apparently. the chute could of been sent to Washington, it was probably wasn't there during his visit.

It's not a mystery that he was denied, you will find that same pattern with anything related to the case.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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I read your post, Smokin99. So do you believe, as Cossey said, that the Amboy chute is actually made from silk, and not nylon? Historical accuracy aside regarding silk production or importation during WW2, that is the real question isn't it? Because it is the only criteria Cossey used to dismiss it.

Shutter says THIS:

Quote

'This started back in January of 2014. you were claiming for several years that Tom was denied, and stonewalled while asking to see the chute while at the office of the FBI. that wasn't the case at all. he never asked to see it. that's straight from the source...'



January 2014 is not 'several years'. It is just over a year ago. I think we've reached an impasse here. You say he never asked to see it. I say he did because I have Kaye's email saying so. If you produce a screenshot of your email from Kaye denying he ever asked, I will go ahead and show his from January 2014 where he says he practically begged Curtis Eng to see it. Otherwise your claims are without merit. You were the one who raised the question. And now you come to me with this alleged denial. So PROVE it. I have to have a damn good reason to make someone like Tom Kaye's email public.

In other words, you go first. That's all the respect you'll get from me, otherwise you can believe what you wish. Really Shutter...didn't you even read what he said on his own website about the Amboy chute? :S


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You don't read things very well Robert. I said you were claiming for years that he was denied access to the chute. that was the argument back then.

I emailed Tom January 13, 2014, his reply was " we never saw the chute. we didn't think to ask about it at the time because it had been dismissed."

That is his exact quote. I shouldn't have to reveal anything. you were the one stating something different than what the argument was about. it was basically you saying he was denied.

I have the screenshot cocked and loaded. it will read the same..

Now, I read back in the thread were you emailed him, but I haven't seen anything from you. that's what needs to be shown. my email doesn't say anything about being denied anything. it's about what occurred during the visit to the FBI.

I'm not the one making the claims here Robert! my email was about the previous claims you made for several years prior to 2014.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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RobertMBlevins

I read your post, Smokin99. So do you believe, as Cossey said, that the Amboy chute is actually made from silk, and not nylon? Historical accuracy aside regarding silk production or importation during WW2, that is the real question isn't it? Because it is the only criteria Cossey used to dismiss it.



Well first - if we are talking history I think it's is pretty important to be accurate. logic says ... if you say that he cannot summarily dismiss it based on historical events....., then you need to be accurate in your assessment of those historical events.

I don't know if it was silk. It could have been first gen nylon, but I do not rule out that it was a cargo chute made of silk in 1946.
Or even that it was a chute that was sewn prior to 46 and serialized when it was harnessed or sold.

I also believe this -- regardless of the actions by the FBI regarding the Amboy chute.... or who did or did not look at it, I believe that a master rigger should know something about chute material. I might be wrong, but I don't think you can totally dismiss Cossey's credentials in this area.

And I also don't think you can believe everything you read. "Yeah I knew in the first ten seconds it wasn't the chute" is probably just Earl Cossey posturing for the media. I will admit he did a lot of that.

But yes, it is my admittedly non-expert opinion that the Amboy chute close-up did not look like the material poking out of the chute that Sailshaw had a picture of -- that I believe he said was Hayden's. (And before you go there -I'm not talking about the color, condition, etc.)

Hey not that we will ever be told anyway, but I might be wrong. It happens occasionally :):D
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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