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MarkBennett

***I don't know the answers to your questions, but I DO know that two guys can't sit in the same seat unless they are really friendly or something. :)
That was my point. Gray has both of them basically in the same place when there can only be one. Since he went into much greater detail on Mitchell sitting across from Cooper than he did with Gregory, it's obvious that MITCHELL was actually the one in the seat across from Cooper. I merely asked Gray to straighten all that out.
I wouldn't go into conspiracy mode on it quite yet. :)
On a separate note, I sent a message to the KCSO and the Woodinville PD suggesting they perhaps submit Cossey's case to Cold Justice. I provided them the link to the online submission form. I did tell them that only family members of the victim or law enforcement could suggest cases.

From the criticism of the King County Sheriffs Department by Justice, Seattle office, it's obvious they need some help on this one. I say bring on Kelly Siegler and Yolanda McClary and let these women take a shot at it.



I think they should submit the Cossey case to "Law and Order". That way, not only will they catch the killer, they can also put him on trial and convict him -- all within 60 minutes!
B|B|B|

Obviously, you haven't watched too many episodes of Cold Justice. Law and Order is a fictional crime drama. Cold Justice is a reality-based show, and the two women who star on that show have actually solved REAL murders, and people have been arrested and charged as a result of their work.

It is one of the best shows going on television. However, to have these women work on a case, bring their extensive resources to your family...you have to contact them first and ask. I think Cossey's family should ask. The asking must be done by the police department handling the cold case, or by the family. There is absolutely NOTHING funny or even remotely humorous about Cossey being beaten to death in his own home. So I don't see the purpose of your smiley faces there.

Due to the fact that Cossey's murder is indirectly related to another case everyone knows, (Cooper) it is very possible the producers of the show might accept a request from the family. Let's face it...the King County Sheriffs Department hasn't figured out a damn thing on it yet.

EDIT: I managed to get the phone number of a close relative of Earl Cossey's. I left a message suggesting they contact Cold Justice, and I said why they may want to try that option. No one was home, that's why I had to leave the message.


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RobertMBlevins

William Gossett as Cooper: I think at some point GC realized that he was flogging a dead horse. He used pictures taken years before the hijacking as comparison for Cooper.

See the attached picture. It shows Gossett at his retirement ceremony at Ft. Lewis, WA only 18 months after the hijacking.

Think he's Cooper? If an Army guy still on active service had pulled off the hijacking, the FBI would have figured it out long ago. ;)



Doesn't look like Cooper at all. Too much hair.

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BuckwheatFlower

***William Gossett as Cooper: I think at some point GC realized that he was flogging a dead horse. He used pictures taken years before the hijacking as comparison for Cooper.

See the attached picture. It shows Gossett at his retirement ceremony at Ft. Lewis, WA only 18 months after the hijacking.

Think he's Cooper? If an Army guy still on active service had pulled off the hijacking, the FBI would have figured it out long ago. ;)



Doesn't look like Cooper at all. Too much hair.

He's also fairly heavy. Now, I suppose it is possible (if he were Cooper) that he suddenly put on weight in the 18 months between the hijacking and when that photo was taken. On the other hand, Galen Cook's had a lot of years to check that out via Gossett's military records. He's working with Gossett's family, so he would be able to access all records. They also do PT tests on military personnel twice a year, (at least they used to when I was in, but that was a long time ago) and they usually state your weight for those. If he weighed about the same prior to the hijacking as he does in the '73 photo, then I think the chances are unlikely he was Cooper. In the '73 photo he looks not fat, but he's definitely a big guy. Cook could also request his medical records from the Army, which might show a few other important items.

I understood your comment about the hair. I think you were dropping a hint about Christiansen. All I can tell you is what we currently know about that. Dawn Androsko, Androsko's daughter, (who is Bernie Geestman's niece) Helen Jones, and Margie Geestman have all testified that yes...Kenny had a toupee but he didn't wear it very often, nor did he wear it at work. Androsko added that she was sure Kenny never wore it again after the date of the hijacking. Their testimony on this was added to the report on Christiansen.

Believe it or not, I have never asked Lyle Christiansen about this. I think I should do that. I THOUGHT I had talked to him about it, but looking back through my notes I see I did NOT. Just thought I did. So I sent him a message about it today.


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Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.

On a separate note, the Seattle FBI (today) says they don't think Cooper had much chute experience. On the other hand, Mucklow says he went right to the packing card. Then he pops the other chute for the cordage. And...that he put on that NB6/8 like he knew what the hell he was doing. I think the FBI is wrong on this. Cooper, it sounds like, was confident in his actions after the chutes arrived. Yes...like someone who knew what he was doing.

That statement by the FBI almost sounds like sour grapes. Also, instructions on usage of the chutes was allegedly provided to Cooper, who (also allegedly) stated, "I don't need those."


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RobertMBlevins

Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

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Robert99

***Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

Things don't swing around in a still photo. They are still. If you don't believe that's what Cooper had in mind when he tied up the bag, and then did the cord around his waist...then why do you think he did those things with the bag and the cord?

I doubt he was tying the rope around his waist to try and lower himself to the ground. If he released the bag, he probably did that after the chute had fully inflated. The picture, other than the military garb, makes perfect sense. I believe you disagreed with my assessment not because it is impossible, but because I was the one who suggested it.

My personal opinion, due to the fact that Cooper did not have a reserve chute, is that he went to the bottom of the stairs...held onto the bag...and then pulled the ripcord right off the stairs. Once it inflated, it would pull him away from the aircraft. He may have released his hold on the stairs while the chute was actually inflating. Once he stabilized and the chute was fully inflated, that's when he would have let the bag drop below him. As long as the bag and the paracord holding it were not subject to full opening shock, (because he is holding the bag) it would be more than able to support the twenty-two pounds of money from the paracord holding it. Type 3 550 cord has a minimum of 550 pounds strength. I'm not a skydiver, but I know that much.

Cooper taking a freefall off the stairs with a single, untested chute? Sure, that could happen. But that takes more nerve than most people possess. Pulling off the stairs to MAKE SURE THE DAMN THING WORKS before you just leap out there into darkness...is much more likely in this situation. It is safer, and more like a static line jump. If the chute doesn't pop, then you can go back up the stairs and try the sport model.

Quote

"It's the only option with the greatest margin for safety..."

A Mission Control technician from the film, Apollo 13.



I don't believe for a second he just went to the bottom of those stairs with that money bag and a single parachute and yelled 'Geronimo'. Engines sceaming above your head? Probably some fluctuations on the stairs when he already had to use his own weight to force them down? It's dark, it's noisy as hell? Probably over an area he wasn't planning on anyway? At night?

Not a chance in hell. I would bet money on it. He eased his ass to the bottom of those stairs and just tried the ripcord right there. As I said, if it doesn't work, he can go back and try the other chute. To just trust your life to a single chute without knowing if it will work, well...that's hard to swallow. Especially when you have another chute available up in the cabin.

Look, I understand popular culture likes to believe Cooper just leaped off into the night like it was nothing. But I have tried many times to put myself into the shoes of someone who would actually be crazy enough to leap out the back of a jet at night, using a set of moving stairs. And every time I think about it, and couple that with the stair problems, the no-reserve, the added weight of the money bag, I just don't see a Geronimo here. I see a guy who probably eased himself down the steps backwards and pulled the cord at the bottom. This makes sense if you take into account the conditions he faced. He had to have wondered whether the chute would even work, and with no reserve, why would he take a chance on that when there is the OTHER chute available?

Just in case...:)


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Robert99

***Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

THAT POST SHOWS HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW. I HAVE PROVEN IN THE PAST THE SMOKE JUMPERS JUMPED W/LOTS OF "STUFF.....THEY HAD EQUIPMENT WITH THEM ESSENTIAL TO SURVIVE & IT WENT WITH THE JUMPER.

THE HEAVY EQUIPMENT DANGLED BELOW THEM & NOT BETWEEN THEIR LEGS - THAT COULD HURT REAL BAD - IF A PIECE OF THAT EQUIPMENT HIT YOU KNOW WHERE.

ME THINKS YOU NEED TO RESEARCH THIS!

YOU NEED TO SEE THE PICTURES OF THE JUMPERS FROM BACK IN THE DAY....YOU NEED TO READ THEIR STORIES OF SURVIVAL.

GETTING TANGLED IN A TREE WAS NOT A PROBLEM - THEY KNEW HOW TO GET OUT!

I SUGGEST YOU PICK UP A BOOK REGARDING THE BEGINNING OF SMOKE JUMPING. YOU REVEALED HOW LITTLE YOU ACTUALLY KNOW.

IN FACT THERE USED TO BE A CLIP ON AN OLD SMOKE JUMPER SITE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY SHOW THESE GUYS GOING IN WITH THEIR "STUFF"!

PAPERLEGS PETERSON WAS A MASTER AT THIS...THEIR LIVES DEPENDED ON THEIR EQUIPMENT.

THE SMOKE PLANES USED SPOTTERS & LOAD MASTERS...THAT PERSON WAS NOT NECESSARILY A JUMPER...HE MAY HAVE MADE A COUPLE JUST ENCASE HE NEEDED TO BAIL. SOME OF THE LOAD MASTERS USED A CHUTE & SOME DID NOT...I HAVE SEEN ONE PICTURE WHERE THE LOAD MASTER DID NOT HAVE A CHUTE ON.

MAYBE THEY WERE SHORT ON CHUTES BACK IN THE DAY!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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MY LAST CONVERSATION WITH COSSEY.

He & his wife were no longer living together...the last time we spoke.

I do not remember how many conversations we had over the yrs & he was only home a couple of the times. One not long before I learned he was killed.

He was at home the last time we spoke...I had called him about something I thought he should know about.

That last time I spoke to him it was only briefly - he had his phone, but had left his keys on the counter...I had called him to tell him something important. He thought he heard something.

That was the last time I spoke to him. I will alway remember him with fondness. It was not too long after that call I learned he had been killed.

Like the authorities I do not believe Cossey's death was intentional. I do NOT think that Cossey was a careless person - who would have left his house unlocked.

I wish I had records of my phone calls but with the unlimited I do not...then I would know the last time he & I spoke. It was after Bruce interviewed the other guy.

Maybe I was the last person to talk to Cossey before he died....I don't know but it was not long before I found he had been murdered.

FACT or FICTION! Someone knows!

Remember I was spooked because about a wk or so later a car unknown to me was coming down my street in the early morning hours...about 1 or 2 am.

Large older white car...either a Caddy or Lincoln. I contacted the Sheriff's office ...and the car never showed up again.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone would like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI

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Hell...you should see the list of equipment our guys jumped with on D-Day. The money bag was nothing compared to all that. Averaged 70-90 pounds or more of gear, not counting any personal items carried by an individual soldier:

Quote

Standard Parachutist pack
M-1 Garand Rifle with 8-round clip
136 additional rounds for rifle
cartridge belt with canteen
hand grenades
parachute and pack
anti-flash headgear and gloves
pocket compass
machete
.45 caliber Colt automatic pistol
flares
message book
extra magazines for pistol
medical kit
2 additional lb. HE (high-explosives)
1 knife
escape/survival kit
toggle rope
additional personal items

Emergency rations
4 pieces of chewing gum
2 bouillon cubes
2 Nescafe instant coffees, 2 sugar cubes, and creamers
4 Hershey bars
1 pack of Charms candy
1 package pipe tobacco
1 bottle of water purification (Halazone) tablets

Paratroopers carried an average of 70 pounds of equipment. Officers averaged 90 pounds of gear. With the parachute, men weighed in at 90 to 120 pounds over their body weight.




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BruceSmith

BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone who like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI



I fully support this book, Bruce...but I will give you my standard warning regarding reviews. If people see 'shill' type reviews there, (glowing reviews of the book given by people you know personally who are not listed under 'Verified Purchase') you will get hammered by long-term Amazon reviewers. And they will start countering with one-star reviews to bring down your overall rating. So don't get your friends and family to do reviews, because the REAL reviewers at Amazon will teach you a lesson. They see shills all the time. And they don't like shills. And remember...if this happens to you their reviews will stay with that book until eternity. Be careful.

To show you I am telling the truth about this stuff, I once published a short-story collection for Kindle. It was a sci-fi collection from authors worldwide. Well...this one author who contributed decided to review the book in general. I messaged him and said: 'Take down your review please', because I knew other Amazon reviewers would eventually see his name in the book itself. He refused. I pulled the book from Amazon, took out his story, and replaced it with one by somebody else. Then his review worked, because he wasn't in the book anymore. Never get your friends to review your own book at Amazon. It will only cause you misery from the people who have been doing reviews there for years.

Trust me on this. We have more than twenty-five Kindle books going at Amazon to date. If I do a review of your book, it will be a fair one, I will say I know you, and I will actually BUY the book first.

On your pricing problem: Maybe someone forgot to check the boxes for all the foreign markets that say this:

'Set UK price automatically based on US price' (followed by the other foreign markets)

There are like 13 or 14 foreign markets. Each check box for these markets must be checked. It's under Rights and Pricing for your book. Most of your sales will be US, UK, and Canada. Some Germany. Sounds like the Italy pricing is off. Eleven euros? Sounds high, even with the European VAT (value added tax) charge.


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RobertMBlevins

***

Quote

"...He was a very matter of fact man & not one time did he tell me he owned the chutes - just that he packed them....Cossey did NOT deliver the chutes - to the airport. From what I remember of what he told me he took them someplace & someone else delivered them to the airport...but Cossey never claimed to have delivered the chutes to the airport. Something about their going to the wrong place...."




I spoke with Cossey several times from 2009-2011, and every time we spoke he adamantly claimed that he owned the chutes. He even told me that Northwest Orient paid him for the two back chutes.

He also adamantly claimed that he had sent the two back chutes off to Boeing Field, and the last time I spoke with him I asked him why he sent them to the wrong airport, he shouted "Fuck You" and slammed the phone down.



He's claimed these same things in the media over the years in articles. Several times. Some of the more recent references are in articles related to the Amboy chute discovery. This is one of the reasons I continue to question his quick dismissal of the Amboy chute. One article quotes him as saying, "I knew it wasn't Cooper's in less than ten seconds..." after the FBI brought it to his house in the trunk of a car. That was on a Thursday or a Friday I believe. By early the following week, the Seattle FBI wrote off the chute with their pithy 'by a totality of the information' explanation, which was in reality...no explanation at all. When I asked them about the whole thing later, they admitted that the 'other experts' were only consulted by telephone. Go figure.

First Robert, as to the Amboy chute, you said that it was reported via news article or conference that "they" admitted that the other experts were only consulted by phone. And you have never produced said article even though you said you would. I believe this is the first time that you have posted "when I asked them about the whole thing later". Very convenient to take something that you can verify into the realm of "cause I said so"..... Maybe it's just me, but credibility suffers every time you change your story.

As I have posted before, I have no doubt that time and ego got the better of Earl Cossey as it has claimed other principals in the case - and, obviously I stand corrected to the extent that Bruce has or will publish reports of Cossey saying "I owned the chutes and I delivered the chutes". I will give you that.

However, I still submit that it will be difficult to impossible to find published articles from the news media - especially of the day -- where Cossey is QUOTED stating "I owned the chutes and delivered them". If you can find them, I will give you that.

The fact is , in all of the articles I have found, with the exception of one, Cossey has never been quoted as saying this, it is always just assumed by the writer to be a given. Just as they always say it was a horribly dark, freezing, and and stormy night, they also write, "Earl Cossey, the man who supplied the chutes......." I agree that he never corrects them and allows them to write whatever - but show me news media (other than Bruce's articles) where he says it outright.

I'm not doubting you - I'd just, for once, like you to back up what you say with something verifiable. Just trying to go the source and question everything, Robert.

But back to Cossey, all of the articles of the day that I have found only say he packed the chutes, except one. And the one article that I could find when he was quoted as saying anything about ownership it was obvious that he was referring to this ownership in the vein of "yes, they're mine because I put them together." AS per the example I gave of the painting I did that someone else owns. And as per the following excerpt from the Oregonian, dated November 26, 1971..

The parachute backpack on which the hijacker depended was a new rig specifically made for stunt fliers, not skydivers and had never been used, "Yep, that's my chute," said Earl Cossey, president of Seattle Sky Sports when the parachute and harness were described to him. Both backpacks supplied the hijacker were made by Cossey, but owned by Norman Hayden, a stunt pilot at Renton Aviation Co.

So there you go.....call him a liar and a fraud, but I still maintain that lack of ownership and/or misrepresentation of same does nothing to change the fact that his knowledge of the parachutes, as a master rigger of those chutes, was superior to that of someone that never used and likely never saw the chutes.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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BruceSmith

BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone who like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI



Congratulations Bruce!!
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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RobertMBlevins

***BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone who like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI



I fully support this book, Bruce....and then all that other stuff.

Lord, have mercy.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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RobertMBlevins

******Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

Things don't swing around in a still photo. They are still. If you don't believe that's what Cooper had in mind when he tied up the bag, and then did the cord around his waist...then why do you think he did those things with the bag and the cord?

I doubt he was tying the rope around his waist to try and lower himself to the ground. If he released the bag, he probably did that after the chute had fully inflated. The picture, other than the military garb, makes perfect sense. I believe you disagreed with my assessment not because it is impossible, but because I was the one who suggested it.

My personal opinion, due to the fact that Cooper did not have a reserve chute, is that he went to the bottom of the stairs...held onto the bag...and then pulled the ripcord right off the stairs. Once it inflated, it would pull him away from the aircraft. He may have released his hold on the stairs while the chute was actually inflating. Once he stabilized and the chute was fully inflated, that's when he would have let the bag drop below him. As long as the bag and the paracord holding it were not subject to full opening shock, (because he is holding the bag) it would be more than able to support the twenty-two pounds of money from the paracord holding it. Type 3 550 cord has a minimum of 550 pounds strength. I'm not a skydiver, but I know that much.

Cooper taking a freefall off the stairs with a single, untested chute? Sure, that could happen. But that takes more nerve than most people possess. Pulling off the stairs to MAKE SURE THE DAMN THING WORKS before you just leap out there into darkness...is much more likely in this situation. It is safer, and more like a static line jump. If the chute doesn't pop, then you can go back up the stairs and try the sport model.

Quote

"It's the only option with the greatest margin for safety..."

A Mission Control technician from the film, Apollo 13.



I don't believe for a second he just went to the bottom of those stairs with that money bag and a single parachute and yelled 'Geronimo'. Engines sceaming above your head? Probably some fluctuations on the stairs when he already had to use his own weight to force them down? It's dark, it's noisy as hell? Probably over an area he wasn't planning on anyway? At night?

Not a chance in hell. I would bet money on it. He eased his ass to the bottom of those stairs and just tried the ripcord right there. As I said, if it doesn't work, he can go back and try the other chute. To just trust your life to a single chute without knowing if it will work, well...that's hard to swallow. Especially when you have another chute available up in the cabin.

Look, I understand popular culture likes to believe Cooper just leaped off into the night like it was nothing. But I have tried many times to put myself into the shoes of someone who would actually be crazy enough to leap out the back of a jet at night, using a set of moving stairs. And every time I think about it, and couple that with the stair problems, the no-reserve, the added weight of the money bag, I just don't see a Geronimo here. I see a guy who probably eased himself down the steps backwards and pulled the cord at the bottom. This makes sense if you take into account the conditions he faced. He had to have wondered whether the chute would even work, and with no reserve, why would he take a chance on that when there is the OTHER chute available?

Just in case...:)
Blevins,

I am complimenting you when I say that your response above is "just plain silly".

And your are to be commended for observing that "things don't swing around in a still photograph". I would have never guessed.

My first guess about what Cooper did when he tied the money bag around his waist was to make it as tight as possible to his body so that it would not swing around when he jumped (which is also how I have seen it done by paratroopers).

Your habit of putting words in Cooper's mouth represents only yourself and not Cooper. Based on your comments, I would suggest that Cooper had more guts than you.

So you would stop at the bottom of the stairs and pull the ripcord just to see if anything happened.

Cooper may have thought otherwise at the time, but he really only had one parachute with him. That put him in the class of people making emergency parachute jumps.

I don't know how many emergency parachute jumps (with only one parachute) have been made in aviation history but it is probably in the hundreds of thousands. And practically all of those parachutes worked as advertised.

In any event, single parachute jumps are an "either/or" situation. Either you make it or you don't. There is no "maybe" involved.

And so you think Cooper is going to be able to hold onto that money bag all by himself during the opening 10g shock?

Finally, I disagree with your assessment above because it is stupid and for no other reason.

Robert99

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First Robert, as to the Amboy chute, you said that it was reported via news article or conference that "they" admitted that the other experts were only consulted by phone. And you have never produced said article even though you said you would. I believe this is the first time that you have posted "when I asked them about the whole thing later". Very convenient to take something that you can verify into the realm of "cause I said so"..... Maybe it's just me, but credibility suffers every time you change your story.



I've addressed this before. 'When I asked them later,' means when I called them and emailed about the Amboy chute in 2012 I think. Maybe it was last year, I forget at the moment. I got one email back, one phone call return. There IS an article out there somewhere stating that experts were consulted by PHONE...and I have seen comments about this over at the alternate site as well.

Look...some articles Cossey claims to have owned and delivered the chutes to the airport. That is a given. Others he is quoted as just packing them. That can be checked. It is also a fact that Cossey based his decision on his 'It is silk and the one I gave to Cooper was nylon'. That statement appears in a lot of the articles, as well as "I knew it wasn't the right chute in less than ten seconds".

What do you want from me? I saw a post from you on page 2014 where you say 'everyone wants to re-address the Amboy chute' or close to that. So maybe you should ask the Seattle FBI as I did.

Cossey's non-ownership and non-delivery of the chutes is a fact. The real question is whether his instant dismissal can be relied on as the final answer to the Amboy chute. And on that one, I just don't know. It would have helped if the FBI had given something to media on their decision beyond 'a totality of the information' which is basically a non-answer. For example, they could have held up a swatch from the chute and said, "We tested this and determined the chute WAS made of silk..." Case closed.

You know, when I asked them about it, they told me the chute was still 'evidence in an ongoing case'. Funny thing to say when they dismissed it as evidence years before. Just saying.

Robert99: I want you to remember something here. First...I see your posts at the alternate site. Second, you came at me for that theory on the money bag for personal reasons, not because you believe it is silly, or that I am stupid.

We're not talking about a 'normal' jump in any sense of the word, and in fact...377 and I agree on many of the points I gave in my theory about the jump. He thinks Cooper may have pulled off the stairs as well. This actually is less risky than simply leaping off the stairs with a single, untested chute. And he didn't have just ONE chute available. There was still the unused sport model in the passenger cabin.

When I took into account the situation under which he had to jump, I came to the idea that perhaps he eased down the stairs and pulled the ripcord at the bottom, just to make sure. You think he trusted to luck on the one chute and just did a Geronimo at 175MPH or so. Okay...we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Besides, there is no way for either of us to know who is right, since no one actually saw Cooper jump except Cooper. My theory is just as good as any other on this point.


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skyjack71

******Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

THAT POST SHOWS HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW. I HAVE PROVEN IN THE PAST THE SMOKE JUMPERS JUMPED W/LOTS OF "STUFF.....THEY HAD EQUIPMENT WITH THEM ESSENTIAL TO SURVIVE & IT WENT WITH THE JUMPER.

THE HEAVY EQUIPMENT DANGLED BELOW THEM & NOT BETWEEN THEIR LEGS - THAT COULD HURT REAL BAD - IF A PIECE OF THAT EQUIPMENT HIT YOU KNOW WHERE.

ME THINKS YOU NEED TO RESEARCH THIS!

YOU NEED TO SEE THE PICTURES OF THE JUMPERS FROM BACK IN THE DAY....YOU NEED TO READ THEIR STORIES OF SURVIVAL.

GETTING TANGLED IN A TREE WAS NOT A PROBLEM - THEY KNEW HOW TO GET OUT!

I SUGGEST YOU PICK UP A BOOK REGARDING THE BEGINNING OF SMOKE JUMPING. YOU REVEALED HOW LITTLE YOU ACTUALLY KNOW.

IN FACT THERE USED TO BE A CLIP ON AN OLD SMOKE JUMPER SITE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY SHOW THESE GUYS GOING IN WITH THEIR "STUFF"!

PAPERLEGS PETERSON WAS A MASTER AT THIS...THEIR LIVES DEPENDED ON THEIR EQUIPMENT.

THE SMOKE PLANES USED SPOTTERS & LOAD MASTERS...THAT PERSON WAS NOT NECESSARILY A JUMPER...HE MAY HAVE MADE A COUPLE JUST ENCASE HE NEEDED TO BAIL. SOME OF THE LOAD MASTERS USED A CHUTE & SOME DID NOT...I HAVE SEEN ONE PICTURE WHERE THE LOAD MASTER DID NOT HAVE A CHUTE ON.

MAYBE THEY WERE SHORT ON CHUTES BACK IN THE DAY!

Jo,

You obviously didn't even read my post. Your knee-jerk response is pure bull.

Smoke jumpers did carry some equipment on their person when they jumped. They also had heavier equipment dropped to them in separate parachutes.

Getting tangled in a tree CAN be a problem. Tangling with live power lines is a DEFINITE problem.

Robert99

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smokin99

******BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone who like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI



I fully support this book, Bruce....and then all that other stuff.

Lord, have mercy.

This is not funny, and I gave Bruce good advice. Go ahead and review the book, give it a glowing five stars without a comprehensive reason why...see what happens.

Sometimes people have to learn the HARD way. There are folks at Amazon who have done thousands of reviews, and they are always on the lookout for shill reviews. You think it is a new thing to get your friends and family and acquaintances to post up glowing reviews for you? Do that, and the REAL reviewers (not me, I've only done a few) will teach you a hard lesson.

Look...let me give you a good example. We released a new book for Kindle a few weeks ago. There are no reviews of this book yet. That's because I absolutely will not go the shill route. I will wait for real reviewers to get around to their job, rather than trying to game the system. It hasn't sold many copies yet either, but I am okay with that. We can do the usual promotions later. Don't slam good advice to Bruce unless you know what you're talking about. Those long-term Amazon reviewers can be like a pack of wolves when they suspect you are using shills to boost the star rating of the book. I've had it happen to me and I wasn't even using shills.

They look for four basic items:

1) Review History of the Person Doing the Review. (How many reviews previously done)

2) Is the review over the top? Does it praise the book too much without actually giving specific reasons why, reasons that relate to the material inside.

3) Does the reviewer address the author by his first name, rather than saying 'Smith' or 'Mr Smith' or 'the author' in the review. It's a common slip-up and tells real Amazon reviewers you know the author personally.

4) Is the review done by someone where it says 'Verified Purchase' next to the name of the reviewer. If not, they know you didn't buy the book when you reviewed it.

Hey...we have TWENTY-FIVE books out there exclusively for the Kindle. I think we've had our account there since 2008. I know what I'm talking about. You won't help Bruce with shill reviews. It is better to wait for the real ones. For God's sake, if you're going to try a shill review, at least buy the book, and try to say something intelligent about the book, go into some detail or another you like that is INSIDE the book. Maybe use a couple of short excerpts in your review. That way, the big boy reviewers there won't get involved in a negative way. They might wonder about it if you only have one or two reviews at Amazon...but if you are listed as a Verified Purchaser, they would probably lay off. Bottom Line: If you review it, BUY it first. And try not to sound like you are a friend or relative endorsing the book.

I will probably buy a copy, but I don't think I should review it personally. I would only do that if Bruce asked me to do it. And if anyone has the idea that I wish nothing for Bruce but SUCCESS, you can forget that idea right now. There are few enough books out there on Cooper...I mean beyond the simple rehashing of the case and there are plenty of those already. He should do fine.


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RobertMBlevins



Robert99: I want you to remember something here. First...I see your posts at the alternate site. Second, you came at me for that theory on the money bag for personal reasons, not because you believe it is silly, or that I am stupid.

We're not talking about a 'normal' jump in any sense of the word, and in fact...377 and I agree on many of the points I gave in my theory about the jump. He thinks Cooper may have pulled off the stairs as well. This actually is less risky than simply leaping off the stairs with a single, untested chute. And he didn't have just ONE chute available. There was still the unused sport model in the passenger cabin.

When I took into account the situation under which he had to jump, I came to the idea that perhaps he eased down the stairs and pulled the ripcord at the bottom, just to make sure. You think he trusted to luck on the one chute and just did a Geronimo at 175MPH or so. Okay...we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Besides, there is no way for either of us to know who is right, since no one actually saw Cooper jump except Cooper. My theory is just as good as any other on this point.



Blevins,

Don't kid yourself. Your "theory" is just your imaging things that you are not familiar with.

WHEN THE RIPCORD IS PULLED UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES RELATED TO COOPER'S JUMP, THE CANOPY IS GOING TO COME OUT OF THE PACK.

EVEN IF THE CANOPY DOESN'T INFLATE, AT 225 MPH THE DRAG FROM THE UNOPENED CANOPY WILL BE SUFFICIENT TO PULL YOUR ASS RIGHT OFF THOSE STAIRS.

YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A CHANGE TO GET BACK UP INTO THE CABIN TO PUT ON THE OTHER PARACHUTE.

I don't know exactly what 377 told you (would 377 clarify if necessary?), but I imagine he was only discussing the best way to avoid such things as tumbling and disorientation. I doubt very much if 377 was talking about "testing" a parachute to see if it would work.

People wearing only one parachute have survived emergency ejections at Mach 3+ (over 2000 MPH) at or above 70,000 feet. Making a voluntary jump at 175 MPH is nothing heroic.

Robert99

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You are reading too much into what I said regarding how he jumped. I merely said he probably pulled off the stairs, rather than doing a freefall. The 'test' thing? I am not sure on that. Who knows? Maybe Cooper pulls the ripcord and it comes off in his hand and nothing pops. 'Thank you, Seattle FBI, for fixing my chute so it doesn't work...' I don't know. You are right. 377 should imput here.

If I were a betting man, I would say rather than risking a freefall in the dark, he probably pulled off the stairs. No one really knows, and it's only a theory anyway.


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RobertMBlevins

You are reading too much into what I said regarding how he jumped. I merely said he probably pulled off the stairs, rather than doing a freefall. The 'test' thing? I am not sure on that. Who knows? Maybe Cooper pulls the ripcord and it comes off in his hand and nothing pops. 'Thank you, Seattle FBI, for fixing my chute so it doesn't work...' I don't know. You are right. 377 should imput here.

If I were a betting man, I would say rather than risking a freefall in the dark, he probably pulled off the stairs. No one really knows, and it's only a theory anyway.



Blevins,

You seem to be ignoring the simple fact that Tina said she witnessed Cooper "pre-flight" the parachute. You also do not seem to understand that parachutes are designed to work and they get the job done in almost all instances.

You are just transferring your fears into what you believe Cooper must be thinking.

Robert99

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Robert99

***You are reading too much into what I said regarding how he jumped. I merely said he probably pulled off the stairs, rather than doing a freefall. The 'test' thing? I am not sure on that. Who knows? Maybe Cooper pulls the ripcord and it comes off in his hand and nothing pops. 'Thank you, Seattle FBI, for fixing my chute so it doesn't work...' I don't know. You are right. 377 should imput here.

If I were a betting man, I would say rather than risking a freefall in the dark, he probably pulled off the stairs. No one really knows, and it's only a theory anyway.



Blevins,

You seem to be ignoring the simple fact that Tina said she witnessed Cooper "pre-flight" the parachute. You also do not seem to understand that parachutes are designed to work and they get the job done in almost all instances.

You are just transferring your fears into what you believe Cooper must be thinking.

Robert99

Tina Mucklow didn't see Cooper jump. The pre-flight has no relation to whether he went freefall or did a pull on the stairs. You think he went freefall, I think he pulled on the stairs. No way to really say which of us is right.

I think it is safe to assume that Cooper was at least a little apprehensive when the stairs didn't drop-and-lock when he pulled the lever. Rataczak has said the stairs would only fall 24-36 inches when opened in flight. It's perfectly conceivable that the hijacker, seeing that, might turn around and back down the stairs. As I have said before, if he goes forward and those stairs take a sudden drop from his weight...he could easily go head over heels and right off the end. I don't know...I think he backed down the stairs to the end, held the bag tightly, and pulled the ripcord. It has been noted previously that tying it around his waist could make him tumble out of control in a freefall, too. Mucklow did not see him actually securing the bag to his waist. She said he tied up the bag, made a sort-of handle on the end of the cords, and then was tying something around his waist. Sounds like he tied a cord around his waist, then attached it to the handle he created on the bag, leaving some slack, and then clutched the bag to his chest.

Don't be so hard on me. It's just a theory. ;) In any event, Cooper's jump was anything but typical, or normal.


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To give ya a taste of what's in the book:

Table of Contents



Chapter 1 An Introduction to DB Cooper and the FBI’s Investigation

Chapter 2 The Skyjacking Begins

Chapter 3 The Getaway

Chapter 4 The Search for DB Cooper Begins

Chapter 5 Sketches of DB Cooper

Chapter 6 Bill Mitchell, a Prime Witness

Chapter 7 Profile of DB Cooper

Chapter 8 The FBI Investigation Digs In

Chapter 9 The Murder of Earl Cossey, the FBI’s Parachute Expert

Chapter 10 Flight Path, Weather, and the LZ

Chapter 11 The Money Find

Chapter 12 Looking for Tina Mucklow, the Primary Witness

Chapter 13 The Legacy of Cooper Case Agent Larry Carr

Chapter 14 Citizen Sleuths

Chapter 15 DNA

Chapter 16 DZ; the Mountain News, and the DB Cooper Forum

Chapter 17 922 Confessions

Chapter 18 The Confession of Barb Dayton

Chapter 19 The Deathbed Confession of Duane Weber

Chapter 20 The “Confession” of Kenny Christiansen

Chapter 21 The Family Confession of Wolfgang Gossett

Chapter 22 Early Suspects, Ted Mayfield, and the Cooper Vortex

Chapter 23 The Vortex and a Jailed Suspect, Don Burnworth

Chapter 24 “Most Promising” Suspect, Marla Cooper’s Uncle LD

Chapter 25 Letters from “DB Cooper” and the Mysterious Al Di

Chapter 26 The Ideal Cooper Suspect, Sheridan Peterson

Chapter 27 Suspects from Vietnam - SOG and Ted Braden

Chapter 28 Richard McCoy, MKULTRA, and the Role of the CIA

Chapter 29 Copycats

Chapter 30 Robb Heady, an Interview with a Copycat

Chapter 31 Cyber Attacks on Cooper Investigators

Chapter 32 Why Can’t the FBI Find DB Cooper?

Chapter 33 Remote Viewing, a New Forensic Tool

Chapter 34 What’s Next in Norjak?

Reference A: Who’s Who of Norjak—The Hunters and the Hijacked

Reference B: What if DB Cooper Didn’t Jump?

Reference C: Barb Dayton and the National Geographic Documentary

Reference D: Factoids from the 2013 Symposium

Acknowledgements

Biography of the Author,

Author’s Note

Photo Gallery (26 photos)

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RobertMBlevins

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First Robert, as to the Amboy chute, you said that it was reported via news article or conference that "they" admitted that the other experts were only consulted by phone. And you have never produced said article even though you said you would. I believe this is the first time that you have posted "when I asked them about the whole thing later". Very convenient to take something that you can verify into the realm of "cause I said so"..... Maybe it's just me, but credibility suffers every time you change your story.



I've addressed this before. 'When I asked them later,' means when I called them and emailed about the Amboy chute in 2012 I think. Maybe it was last year, I forget at the moment. I got one email back, one phone call return. There IS an article out there somewhere stating that experts were consulted by PHONE...and I have seen comments about this over at the alternate site as well.

Look...some articles Cossey claims to have owned and delivered the chutes to the airport. That is a given. Others he is quoted as just packing them. That can be checked. It is also a fact that Cossey based his decision on his 'It is silk and the one I gave to Cooper was nylon'. That statement appears in a lot of the articles, as well as "I knew it wasn't the right chute in less than ten seconds".

What do you want from me? I saw a post from you on page 2014 where you say 'everyone wants to re-address the Amboy chute' or close to that. So maybe you should ask the Seattle FBI as I did.

Cossey's non-ownership and non-delivery of the chutes is a fact. The real question is whether his instant dismissal can be relied on as the final answer to the Amboy chute. And on that one, I just don't know. It would have helped if the FBI had given something to media on their decision beyond 'a totality of the information' which is basically a non-answer.
....


You only got that from what I wrote....lol...okay I'll try one more time.

What I would like from you is what I said....just once...to back up what you say with something verifiable. Just trying to go the source and question everything, Robert.

Now you say you asked the FBI and they "admitted" to you that they only talked with these experts by phone.

Robert, I guess I just don't believe you. AND yes, before you tell me....I realize that you don't care what I think...B|..lol....honestly - it might be true that they did only talk to them by phone - but what I'm saying is that your statement that they said this in a published report has never been verified by showing the article!!

As I said, re: his claim of ownership - I stand corrected to the extent that Bruce has or will publish reports of Cossey saying "I owned the chutes and I delivered the chutes". I will give you that, but I still submit that it will be difficult to find published articles from other news media - especially of the day -- where Cossey is QUOTED as stating "I owned the chutes and delivered them".

In the excerpt I posted it is obvious that he was referring to this ownership in the vein of "yes, they're mine because I put them together." To refresh your memory or in case you missed it, the following excerpt from the Oregonian, dated November 26, 1971..

The parachute backpack on which the hijacker depended was a new rig specifically made for stunt fliers, not skydivers and had never been used, "Yep, that's my chute," said Earl Cossey, president of Seattle Sky Sports when the parachute and harness were described to him. Both backpacks supplied the hijacker were made by Cossey, but owned by Norman Hayden, a stunt pilot at Renton Aviation Co.

lol....but you know what -- lucky for you, I'm done with this. Going in for an dropzone intervention.
I will give you that he claimed ownership in a backhanded way. Hell....I'm feeling the wine, I mean magnanimous --- so I will even give you that he claimed this outright to other news media besides Bruce if you need that.

This is a silly argument when the end result is the same. But I do not feel bad about trying to keep you and the narrative honest.

So the takeaway: (lol... I hate that buzzword)

Call Ol Coss a liar and a fraud, and try to pretend that he is irrelevant. What I say is that he is most likely a victim of human frailty -- in that the fish just kept getting bigger and bigger. Kind of reminds me of some other folks I know. B|

Yet and still, his non-ownership / non-delivery and/or misrepresentation of same does NADA to change the fact that his knowledge of the parachutes, as a master rigger of those chutes, was superior to that of someone that never used and likely never saw the chutes. Tunnel vision just prevents you from giving credit where credit is due.

And, as Forrest Gump says - that's all I've got to say about that.

lol....and I bet you one hundred dollars to your favorite charity that you cannot pass this up without having the last word....:DB|
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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