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DB Cooper

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(edited)
On 5/29/2022 at 4:37 PM, Coopericane said:

How did she know Cooper (if at all) then?

I believe that Max was actually contacted by somebody claiming to be Cooper.. was it a hoax or the real Cooper? is the obvious question. The person contacting Max appeared to be after money. Suddenly, he vanished so something happened to him. If it ended there it would have likely been a hoax.. Ten years later "Clara" contacts Max with a different purpose. Clara didn't want money, she wanted two things, to get Max to publicize that Cooper was really a good person and that he had died. That is odd.. Why would somebody do that. If he was dead then what was the point and why did she concoct a narrative of lies and half truths hiding Cooper's real identity... if she wanted Cooper to be known as a good guy then why not ID him if he was dead.... because "Cooper" was not dead she was trying to make him dead in the public consciousness through Max.. If she was a hoaxer she would have asked for money as well. Her story is mostly BS with half truths to not give away Cooper's identity making it very difficult to analyze. But, parsing some of the info, I believe Clara was not Cooper's girlfriend but a family member trying to throw everyone off. 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
51 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I believe that Max was actually contacted by somebody claiming to be Cooper.. was it a hoax or the real Cooper? is the obvious question. The person contacting Max appeared to be after money. Suddenly, he vanished so something happened to him. Ten years later "Clara" contacts Max with a different purpose. Clara didn't want money, she wanted two things, to get Max to publicize that Cooper was really a good person and that he had died. That is odd.. Why would somebody do that. If he was dead then what was the point and why did she concoct a narrative of lies and half truths hiding Cooper's real identity... if she wanted Cooper to be known as a good guy then why not ID him if he was dead.... because "Cooper" was not dead she was trying to make him dead in the public consciousness through Max.. If she was a hoaxer she would have asked for money as well. Her story is mostly BS with half truths to not give away Cooper's identity making it very difficult to analyze. But, parsing some of the info, I believe Clara was not Cooper's girlfriend but a family member trying to throw everyone off. 

As stated before, I firmly believe that Gunther's book is our best bet in finding out how DB Cooper was.

In the book it is written that Clara called Max a half dozen times between April and August of 1982.  One thought I had was that the money find in 1980 and the movie "The Pursuit of DB Cooper" released in November 1981 put the case back in the spotlight.  When "The Pursuit of DB Cooper" was released, Universal Studios offered a $1 million reward for information that would lead to his capture.  All of this news may have spooked Cooper and Clara, or it could have re-invigorated them.

I'd be curious to know how Cooper felt when the Unsolved Mysteries episode came out.  Although, I would guess that a movie in the theaters would have brought more attention than an Unsolved Mysteries episode.

Edited by CooperNWO305

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(edited)
10 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

As stated before, I firmly believe that Gunther's book is our best bet in finding out how DB Cooper was.

In the book it is written that Clara called Max a half dozen times between April and August of 1982.  One thought I had was that the money find in 1980 and the movie "The Pursuit of DB Cooper" released in November 1981 put the case back in the spotlight.  When "The Pursuit of DB Cooper" was released, Universal Studios offered a $1 million reward for information that would lead to his capture.  All of this news may have spooked Cooper and Clara, or it could have re-invigorated them.

I'd be curious to know how Cooper felt when the Unsolved Mysteries episode came out.  Although, I would guess that a movie in the theaters would have brought more attention than an Unsolved Mysteries episode.

and "how" was he? Fit? Sturdy? Was he still suffering from ????????????   gout?  

We know from Godsey and Nicky B that Coop was suffering from Vibrating Finger ! Nicky B says:

"Vibration white finger (VWF), also known as hand-arm vibration syndrome (HAVS) or dead finger, is a secondary form of Raynaud's syndrome, an industrial injury triggered by continuous use of vibrating hand-held machinery."

Is vibrating white finger different from vibrating purple or black finger? Leyts consult Doctor Nicky B. Maybe Godsey knows too? 

How is Godsey?   

 

 

 

 

Edited by georger

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(edited)
On 11/11/2020 at 12:41 AM, Nicholas Broughton said:

It’s possible the staining on coopers hand could of been caused by something else and it was just assumed cigarettes because he was smoking. One of the biggest take aways from all of the cs’s tie analysis is that cooper was around machinery in a metal fabrication environment. Hence why the tie was clip on in case it snagged on any machinery. Could the stains have been caused by something known as VWF/HAVS? Vibration white finger (VWF), also known as hand-arm vibration syndrome (HAVS) or dead finger, is a secondary form of Raynaud's syndrome, an industrial injury triggered by continuous use of vibrating hand-held machinery. 

Amazing. Just throw out Tina Mucklow's testimony - and supply your own! 

It’s possible the staining on coopers hand could of been caused by something else and it was just assumed cigarettes because he was smoking.

Well NO - NOT QUITE! Sir, this was no mere assumption. This was direct testimony by a witness who spent time with Cooper and who knows cigarette stains on fingers when she it.  She was there - you were not there.

Secondly, are you a medical doctor? A forensic specialist with a residency and twenty+ years sorting out cigarette stains from "Vibration white finger (VWF), also known as hand-arm vibration syndrome (HAVS) or dead finger, is a secondary form of Raynaud's syndrome" . . . of course you aren't!

Fortunately for you, this is not even worth pursuing.

 

 

ciggstainrighthand.jpeg.57017ce5a281545d27a1bb7f208c24ef.jpeg

Edited by georger

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(edited)
1 hour ago, georger said:

Amazing. Just throw out Tina Mucklow's testimony - and supply your own! 

It’s possible the staining on coopers hand could of been caused by something else and it was just assumed cigarettes because he was smoking.

Well NO - NOT QUITE! Sir, this was no mere assumption. This was direct testimony by a witness who spent time with Cooper and who knows cigarette stains on fingers when she it.  She was there - you were not there.

Secondly, are you a medical doctor? A forensic specialist with a residency and twenty+ years sorting out cigarette stains from "Vibration white finger (VWF), also known as hand-arm vibration syndrome (HAVS) or dead finger, is a secondary form of Raynaud's syndrome" . . . of course you aren't!

Fortunately for you, this is not even worth pursuing.

 

 

ciggstainrighthand.jpeg.57017ce5a281545d27a1bb7f208c24ef.jpeg

Now now, I guess your not looking to be let out of time out early at shutters for good behavior are ya G… did any part of the message where he talks about showing people respect register in your bird brain? I’d like to think I’ve come a long way since then but it’s  nice to see my early work being studied it’s very flattering. It’s kinda like to early days of metals R&D you’d go down some blind alleys at first until you figure out what works. But this a good example of my outside the box thinking that I’ve fine tuned that is furthering the case. I later learned that this 302 was likely a typo…it was in reference to an unsub in the file that they were investigating with a stained right hand and his description got mixed in with coopers.. that line of investigation ended up being a dead end but just remember how Edison invented the light bulb. Let me ask you something Jer… what do you do for the case besides whine   criticize and breed drama throughout the vortex. Oh wait let us not forget your brilliant revelation that cooper was a hobo living in a portland encampment lol. I hope you get your meds adjusted soon G… you don’t seem well. 
 

Take care, brush ya hair 
 

Nicky   

Edited by Nicholas Broughton
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1 hour ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Now now, I guess your not looking to be let out of time out early at shutters for good behavior are ya G… did any part of the message where he talks about showing people respect register in your bird brain? I’d like to think I’ve come a long way since then but it’s  nice to see my early work being studied it’s very flattering. It’s kinda like to early days of metals R&D you’d go down some blind alleys at first until you figure out what works. But this a good example of my outside the box thinking that I’ve fine tuned that is furthering the case. I later learned that this 302 was likely a typo…it was in reference to an unsub in the file that they were investigating with a stained right hand and his description got mixed in with coopers.. that line of investigation ended up being a dead end but just remember how Edison invented the light bulb. Let me ask you something Jer… what do you do for the case besides whine   criticize and breed drama throughout the vortex. Oh wait let us not forget your brilliant revelation that cooper was a hobo living in a portland encampment lol. I hope you get your meds adjusted soon G… you don’t seem well. 
 

Take care, brush ya hair 
 

Nicky   

complaint filed - personal attack.

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(edited)
45 minutes ago, georger said:

complaint filed - personal attack.

One more gone from Shutter's site. Me. Its a relief. Been a long time coming ....................  I join a list of other people who he has booted or who left on their own. Its sad. He has lost perspective. He is welcome to Nicky B and the others ... there is no value left at his site. 

He says I disrespected him and others! Which is laughable .... Chaucer posts 'professionals left the Cooper investigation in 2016 ..... really ? .... and there are only amateurs left.  Hmmm thats one perspective. 

What Shutter has never understood is 'respect is a two-way street'. Shutter is welcome to the people he has selected to be in his circle/his forum. I just dont want to be a party to his forum and those people any more. I have told Shutter that for years to no avail. I have told Mr. Brown to take my one week suspension and make it PERMANENT. Thats how a two-way street works. The street is either open or closed or partially open ....... but a toll gate is not in the cards on any DB Cooper forum. Im not going to pay Shutter or anybody else homage or a ransom in phony respect just to post my thoughts in somebody's forum!  Shutter is entitled to have what he wants but so are other people. This debate has gone on for years and now it is finally over, permanently. Good luck to Shutter and his friends at the DBCooper forum. That is all I am saying.

Edited by georger

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7 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Now now, I guess your not looking to be let out of time out early at shutters for good behavior are ya G… did any part of the message where he talks about showing people respect register in your bird brain? I’d like to think I’ve come a long way since then but it’s  nice to see my early work being studied it’s very flattering. It’s kinda like to early days of metals R&D you’d go down some blind alleys at first until you figure out what works. But this a good example of my outside the box thinking that I’ve fine tuned that is furthering the case. I later learned that this 302 was likely a typo…it was in reference to an unsub in the file that they were investigating with a stained right hand and his description got mixed in with coopers.. that line of investigation ended up being a dead end but just remember how Edison invented the light bulb. Let me ask you something Jer… what do you do for the case besides whine   criticize and breed drama throughout the vortex. Oh wait let us not forget your brilliant revelation that cooper was a hobo living in a portland encampment lol. I hope you get your meds adjusted soon G… you don’t seem well. 
 

Take care, brush ya hair 
 

Nicky   

Nicky: You're thinking this is not Cooper?  It sounds like they were talking about him.

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I think it is legit...

First the cigarette descriptions are different.. 

"had cigarette stains on fingers, right hand" vs "cigarette stains on right hand"

1884118196_ScreenShot2022-06-01at9_13_49AM.png.e952445a4d3ee1be7e4fb935aa5397d4.png

Second, we don't have all the interviews and information in the files.. only a fraction.

Third, Cooper was a smoker so it no surprise he would have cigarette stains on his hand,

and finally, Himmelsbach also said it in 1986..

 

"Himmelsbach thinks other clues to Cooper being an ex-convict were the 'atrocious foul language' he used in talking to a stewardess and the way he smoked his cigarettes. Cooper was a heavy smoker and was indifferent to the fact that the smoke curled through his fingers and left nicotine stains, a trait Himmelsbach said is common among prison inmates."

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/11/22/Folk-hero-to-some-sleazy-rotten-crook-to-others/7021533019600/

 

We know that there is info that is wrong in the FBI files and case but in those instances we have conflicting evidence, here we have no conflicting evidence. It is possibly incorrect, but anything is possible. On balance, it looks legit.

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

See if this works. I went to  Jo's profile and found her early posts, which seem to be part of the original chain.  This should get us to the beginning of the thread.

 

 

 

works..

https://www.dropzone.com/forums/topic/55701-d-b-cooper-unsolved-skyjacking/

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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20 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I think it is legit...

First the cigarette descriptions are different.. 

"had cigarette stains on fingers, right hand" vs "cigarette stains on right hand"

1884118196_ScreenShot2022-06-01at9_13_49AM.png.e952445a4d3ee1be7e4fb935aa5397d4.png

Second, we don't have all the interviews and information in the files.. only a fraction.

Third, Cooper was a smoker so it no surprise he would have cigarette stains on his hand,

and finally, Himmelsbach also said it in 1986..

 

"Himmelsbach thinks other clues to Cooper being an ex-convict were the 'atrocious foul language' he used in talking to a stewardess and the way he smoked his cigarettes. Cooper was a heavy smoker and was indifferent to the fact that the smoke curled through his fingers and left nicotine stains, a trait Himmelsbach said is common among prison inmates."

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/11/22/Folk-hero-to-some-sleazy-rotten-crook-to-others/7021533019600/

 

We know that there is info that is wrong in the FBI files and case but in those instances we have conflicting evidence, here we have no conflicting evidence. It is possibly incorrect, but anything is possible. On balance, it looks legit.

But we don't have supporting info. The only mention of stains on hand was when they were looking into another guy that had them. Like you said we don't have all the files yet so I'd say the jury is still out. Maybe there is a grain of truth in Himmies statement there but when everything else in there is non factual it's hard to trust.

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

But we don't have supporting info. The only mention of stains on hand was when they were looking into another guy that had them. Like you said we don't have all the files yet so I'd say the jury is still out. Maybe there is a grain of truth in Himmies statement there but when everything else in there is non factual it's hard to trust.

We don't have the primary source but that is the nature of the Cooper case, I have been working on a 100 point Cooper profile and there are actually very few 100% concrete facts... most are likely or interpretations. That is why the case is so tough and has gone on for 50+ years.

We assume Cooper wore the tie when exposed to the particles but we don't really know..

I read the evidence and it is crystal clear to me that Cooper initially demanded airstairs lowered inflight,, changed later once Reno was in play..   but everyone else thinks he only demanded airstairs lowered on takeoff so he wanted to jump ASAP. It is a significant difference because it means his first intent was not to jump ASAP.

Another one,, the FBI files allude to the fact that the plane was on autopilot..

I have a presentation by Rataczak,,,

Bill said.. "When the stairs came down that flight that airplane lowered about 3 to 5 degrees and I was hand flying it at the time, you don’t want to see my flight path because it looked like connect the dots."

People still believe the plane was on autopilot... 

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

We don't have the primary source but that is the nature of the Cooper case, I have been working on a 100 point Cooper profile and there are actually very few 100% concrete facts... most are likely or interpretations. That is why the case is so tough and has gone on for 50+ years.

We assume Cooper wore the tie when exposed to the particles but we don't really know..

I read the evidence and it is crystal clear to me that Cooper initially demanded airstairs lowered inflight,, changed later once Reno was in play..   but everyone else thinks he only demanded airstairs lowered on takeoff so he wanted to jump ASAP. It is a significant difference because it means his first intent was not to jump ASAP.

Another one,, the FBI files allude to the fact that the plane was on autopilot..

I have a presentation by Rataczak,,,

Bill said.. "When the stairs came down that flight that airplane lowered about 3 to 5 degrees and I was hand flying it at the time, you don’t want to see my flight path because it looked like connect the dots."

People still believe the plane was on autopilot... 

Below is a link to the presentation Flyjack is referencing. It’s a real head scratcher that PS says the flight data recorder shows the 305 on autopilot the entire time and that’s what he went by.. never consulted with Rat? Is it possible for the recorder to not accurately depict how the plane was being flown the entire time? We have the whole thing about the heading nav mode vs heading Mode but it seems likely 305 started off with or had a form of AP on possibly the entire time but taken off or was able to work in conjunction to or overridden with Manual controls maybe something the data recorder couldn’t accurately depict. I’m with ya on that fly… the whole cooper and the stairs there was a lot of back and forth and the exact timing of who said what when is still unclear to me. You seem to have a better grip on it and it’s something I’m willing to concede. I see cooper wanting the stairs down simply for convenience and it increases the search area same reason he asked to go to Mexico. The stairs were a hassle to get down and took some time (back and forth with rat to slow the plane) having them down from the beginning is one less thing cooper would have to deal with. The stained hand is a great question for Tina who is more open to talking these days. I’ll  put in a request through Dawn and Joey. It’s a unique enough identifying factor that it warrants verification. 
 

https://shop.northwestairlineshistory.org/a/downloads/-/c04a4e6bbcd661f9/bf053a161d0e580b

Edited by Nicholas Broughton

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