DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 654]

Many people theorize Cooper was wearing a disguise...  no indication from crew or witnesses he was disguised.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by FLYJACK

[ParrotheadVol 70]

4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Many people theorize Cooper was wearing a disguise...  no indication from crew or witnesses he was disguised.

 

Any idea who the Albuquerque photo is? I'd be interested in seeing a photo of someone who was a "close" match to Cooper.

[FLYJACK 654]

53 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Any idea who the Albuquerque photo is? I'd be interested in seeing a photo of someone who was a "close" match to Cooper.

name redacted,, it is in part 33 page 228 

[Coopericane 44]

Foiled once again by redactions... but it's highly interesting to know that it's an edited photograph, and was considered the "closest match so far" by Mucklow (presumably?) as to how she remembered the hijacker...

Flyjack, I believe I've heard you mention before that there were other suspects who were identified as strong/close matches for Cooper by the witnesses... out of curiosity, do you happen to know where this one would fall along that timeline? Did Mucklow ever identify any other suspect/picture (redacted or not) as a closer match for Cooper after late 1973?

[FLYJACK 654]

On 3/12/2022 at 3:50 PM, Coopericane said:

Foiled once again by redactions... but it's highly interesting to know that it's an edited photograph, and was considered the "closest match so far" by Mucklow (presumably?) as to how she remembered the hijacker...

Flyjack, I believe I've heard you mention before that there were other suspects who were identified as strong/close matches for Cooper by the witnesses... out of curiosity, do you happen to know where this one would fall along that timeline? Did Mucklow ever identify any other suspect/picture (redacted or not) as a closer match for Cooper after late 1973?

There were some claims but not confirmed. The FBI uses the phrase "not identical" many times which means what,, "maybe" or "not 100% sure".

In 1976 the FBI effectively said the witnesses were unreliable and only Cooper's cooperation would solve the case.

McCoy.. all three stews "not identical" after viewing photograph.

Edited March 14, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Tina claimed Cooper said, "no kidding and no funny stuff"

then Tina attempted to be humorous when asking for ransom money. (she claims)

It doesn't make sense.

[georger 197]

16 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Tina claimed Cooper said, "no kidding and no funny stuff"

then Tina attempted to be humorous when asking for ransom money. (she claims)

It doesn't make sense.

Even if the money found was a 'bundle of packets' Cooper offered to Tina, there is nothing so far, that connects Cooper to Tina Bar - so the money found at TBar is a random event ... a product of nature except for the dredging connection. The money winds up in a corridor or zone which includes Tina Bar, and either Nature of Human Events puts the money on Tina Bar along with other debris. The money is no more significant than the other debris which wound up on a sand bar somehow in the corridor that included Portland and Vancouver ... because the flight path went through that area. I see no significance in Tina Bar outside the fact that sand bar is part of the general area the flight passed through ... in the general time frame Cooper jumped from the plane. There is no evidence at all to suggest that Cooper was ever at Tina Bar personally. Unless he knew the Fazios and they took him in!  TBar was a popular place and well known. Maybe Cooper walked there to hide out in order to calculate his next move ... Whatever scenario you concoct it must cover the money with sand so it isn;t readily seen by the public. Galen Cook has never proven his claim so that is dismissed as one more of his fictions. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

14 minutes ago, georger said:

Even if the money found was a 'bundle of packets' Cooper offered to Tina, there is nothing so far, that connects Cooper to Tina Bar - so the money found at TBar is a random event ... a product of nature except for the dredging connection. The money winds up in a corridor or zone which includes Tina Bar, and either Nature of Human Events puts the money on Tina Bar along with other debris. The money is no more significant than the other debris which wound up on a sand bar somehow in the corridor that included Portland and Vancouver ... because the flight path went through that area. I see no significance in Tina Bar outside the fact that sand bar is part of the general area the flight passed through ... in the general time frame Cooper jumped from the plane. There is no evidence at all to suggest that Cooper was ever at Tina Bar personally. Unless he knew the Fazios and they took him in!  TBar was a popular place and well known. Maybe Cooper walked there to hide out in order to calculate his next move ... Whatever scenario you concoct it must cover the money with sand so it isn;t readily seen by the public. Galen Cook has never proven his claim so that is dismissed as one more of his fictions. 

Sure, I don't believe Cooper was ever at TBAR, but the significance of the TBAR money is,,, did Cooper lose it all in the jump or was the money a very small portion that found its way to TBAR via natural or human intervention. 

If Cooper didn't lose it all then were did it go, was it spent or is it still hidden somewhere.

It is unlikely it was spent in the US as no bills ever turned up in circulation.

There is more evidence to support the Tina theory but no way to prove it, only Tina and Cooper know.

and if Tina was involved then she would have been completely compromised as a witness.

 

I have another theory which involves a marina on the Columbia. For that one, people associated with the marina can be tracked down.

 

[dudeman17 269]

19 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Tina claimed Cooper said, "no kidding and no funny stuff"

vs

19 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

then Tina attempted to be humorous when asking for ransom money

 

I don't necessarily see those as a conflict that doesn't make sense. I can see Cooper's comment as relating to while they're on the ground refueling and stuff, that he doesn't want any shenanigans meant to delay and trap him. Tina's joke about the money (and then turning it down when he actually offers her some), is a fairly standard technique in a hostage/victim scenario. If she can personalize or endear herself to a perpetrator, it might make him less inclined to kill her. Being a young attractive female, she may have learned that in a rape prevention course, or it might possibly be part of stewardess training?

[FLYJACK 654]

5 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

vs

 

I don't necessarily see those as a conflict that doesn't make sense. I can see Cooper's comment as relating to while they're on the ground refueling and stuff, that he doesn't want any shenanigans meant to delay and trap him. Tina's joke about the money (and then turning it down when he actually offers her some), is a fairly standard technique in a hostage/victim scenario. If she can personalize or endear herself to a perpetrator, it might make him less inclined to kill her. Being a young attractive female, she may have learned that in a rape prevention course, or it might possibly be part of stewardess training?

I don't see that.

If she was to reject it after asking for it wouldn't that make the hijacker more angry. 

She asked for some ransom money claiming to be humorous (after Cooper said no kidding, or funny stuff), he offered and then she took it,, handed it back claiming company policy not to take tips using the example of Cooper offering tip money to the stews.. I think something in that story is false.. 

If she was being humorous why accept the money initially.. she handled it, potential fingerprints?

She used the tip example to back up her story but that occurred after this incident.

More, Tina moved to the PNW in the late 70's a few years before the money was found. She lived near the Columbia River and later near the Willamette both upstream of TBAR.

In March 1972, the FBI announced a new large search to take place with the help of the military. On the EXACT same date there was a short blurb placed in a local paper from her sister which stated that she was offered money by the hijacker but refused it because it was the right thing to do. Clearly, this wasn't exactly true, Tina has asked for it and took it by her own statement to the FBI. Tina's sister's husband was an FBI agent. Why would that be placed in a local paper exactly when the upcoming search was announced, it was undisclosed FBI information and the stews had stated that they never talked about anything that wasn't reported in the news.

IMO, the story was planted by her sister/brother in law to cover for her prior to this new search. If Cooper and the money bag was found and some money was missing she would be suspect because she already said she took some money then handed it back. The other possibility is that she did hand the money back and her prints could be on some packets of money. That shouldn't be a worry because she already told the FBI she handled it unless she was protecting herself from the FBI...

The fact that this biased and undisclosed information was planted exactly when the FBI announced that new large search is very suspicious.. If the money bag was found and some was missing, she would be looked at. Planting that story in the paper front runs that possibility.

This is just a theory, there is no proof but it fits the evidence well.

[CooperNWO305 146]

23 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

There were some claims but not confirmed. The FBI uses the phrase "not identical" many times which means what,, "maybe" or "not 100% sure".

In 1976 the FBI effectively said the witnesses were unreliable and only Cooper's cooperation would solve the case.

McCoy.. all three stews "not identical" after viewing photograph.

This needs to be shown to everyone who thinks McCoy is Cooper and then be asked to explain why they still think he is Cooper. 

[FLYJACK 654]

New Cooper flight and witness video... I haven't watched it yet but the author thinks Dan Gryder got it right though that isn't the focus of the video. Gryder is wrong.

ok, watched it.. 

Flies along v-23..

Witness said weather rainy and windy but not consistent, breaks in between.

Witness said both front stair truck and aft stairs were used on ground Seattle,, evidence indicated the aft stairs were not. 

Witness said parachutes given to stew first then another bag given by somebody else, delivered by stew through aft stairs. Not consistent with evidence, the money was first but perhaps it was the food, not sure?

Witness correct shades were drawn.

Witness said sharpshooters in the grass..  it occurred to me that the best place for Cooper to be was the last row seat because the engines blocked most of a shooters view. 

 

  

Edited March 15, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Something that I thought was interesting is that Rataczak said Cooper used the term "electrical fuse".

That seems very specific. Why not say detonator. Turns out a "fuse" is a very generic term but a "fuze" is a more specific military term. Did Cooper mean "electrical fuze"...

[FLYJACK 654]

During the sled test with a man on the end of the stairs, they did not fully open or "lock" down.

When fully down to lock the permanent railing and pivoting stair railings line up, here they don't. The stairs are about half way open based on the angle between the two railings.

[FLYJACK 654]

Ulis throws down hard on the green/yellow paper bag Cooper had with him. (Some FBI files say brown paper bag)

Sure, figuring out where it came from would be a big clue but that is virtually impossible with the little info we have.

1971, a green/yellow paper bag, no visible logo, 4x12x14 isn't very big. That sounds like a small independent retailer, probably a specialty shop, perhaps a pharmacy/chemist..  Potentially an independent pharmacy in a Hotel or one close by. Cooper could have obtained it locally in Portland or brought it from elsewhere. He did have Benzedrine for the crew, where did he buy that? did he buy stuff from a pharmacy.. cigarettes, Benzedrine and ???

Who knows..

 

[FLYJACK 654]

Northwest used the Fairchild 5424 flight data recorder in 727's during the time of NORJAK,, I can't confirm N467US had that one,, but the FDR was examined and a "bob" was found at 8:09. The Fairchild 5424 and many FDR's of that era were a foil type, they were permanent and not overwritten.

But here is what is interesting, the recorded parameters were altitude, magnetic heading, indicated airspeed, vertical acceleration with respect to time.

NW Airlines was involved in determining the flightpath, this data would be have been used.

 

 

[Robert99 37]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Northwest used the Fairchild 5424 flight data recorder in 727's during the time of NORJAK,, I can't confirm N467US had that one,, but the FDR was examined and a "bob" was found at 8:09. The Fairchild 5424 and many FDR's of that era were a foil type, they were permanent and not overwritten.

But here is what is interesting, the recorded parameters were altitude, magnetic heading, indicated airspeed, vertical acceleration with respect to time.

NW Airlines was involved in determining the flightpath, this data would be have been used.

 

 

The Flight Data Recorder was probably the same model of the one that was installed when the 727 was manufactured in 1964.  Those early FDRs had extremely limited capability compared to the present day FDRs.

I doubt if any useful information related to the time or location of Cooper's jump could be determined from an examination of a tinfoil trace even with a microscope.

Further, the statement that the airliner was on autopilot most of the time is revealing.  If the airliner was actually tracking down V-23 with the autopilot on it would undoubtedly be set up to track down the centerline of V-23 as in normal in such cases.  And it would keep the airliner on that centerline.

The so-called FBI flight path shows the airliner wandering all over the V-23 airway and usually several miles laterally from the centerline.

The above is just one of the reasons that the FBI flight path can be dismissed out of hand.  It is nonsense and doesn't even pass the smell test as has been discussed elsewhere.

[FLYJACK 654]

4 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

The Flight Data Recorder was probably the same model of the one that was installed when the 727 was manufactured in 1964.  Those early FDRs had extremely limited capability compared to the present day FDRs.

I doubt if any useful information related to the time or location of Cooper's jump could be determined from an examination of a tinfoil trace even with a microscope.

Further, the statement that the airliner was on autopilot most of the time is revealing.  If the airliner was actually tracking down V-23 with the autopilot on it would undoubtedly be set up to track down the centerline of V-23 as in normal in such cases.  And it would keep the airliner on that centerline.

The so-called FBI flight path shows the airliner wandering all over the V-23 airway and usually several miles laterally from the centerline.

The above is just one of the reasons that the FBI flight path can be dismissed out of hand.  It is nonsense and doesn't even pass the smell test as has been discussed elsewhere.

It wasn't on autopilot, that was incorrect... 

Rataczak said he was manually flying the plane.

Boeing 727-051, serial number 18803/line number 137 was delivered April 1965.

This 727-22 built in 1965 had a Fairchild 5424 FDR. 

http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-reports/AAR67-AA.pdf

[Robert99 37]

33 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It wasn't on autopilot, that was incorrect... 

Rataczak said he was manually flying the plane.

Boeing 727-051, serial number 18803/line number 137 was delivered April 1965.

This 727-22 built in 1965 had a Fairchild 5424 FDR. 

http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-reports/AAR67-AA.pdf

Even when being flown by hand, the pilot can easily keep an aircraft on the airway centerline.  I speak from experience on this.

And the FBI flight path is still nonsense.

[FLYJACK 654]

A different description of the bag from a passenger..

cloth/manilla/burlap

light yellow/pink tinge

[FLYJACK 654]

16 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Even when being flown by hand, the pilot can easily keep an aircraft on the airway centerline.  I speak from experience on this.

And the FBI flight path is still nonsense.

The Western Flight Path is DOA... no evidence supports it. It is a theory that never panned out.

The evidence supports the "FBI" path...

[FLYJACK 654]

BBC show Witness 2015 interview with Bill Rataczak...

 

"US currency"

"no funny stuff"

"I could feel the stairs coming down"

"mark it on your shrimp boat" (radar screen)

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-db-cooper-mystery/id1345477018?i=1000401601791

[FLYJACK 654]

Cossey said Cooper's chute had a "soft top"..  Hayden claimed they were the same.

Here the chute Cooper left behind and returned to Hayden has the pilot chute outline..

It looks like a hard top,,, is that what this is..

 

This is an example of a hard top.

[FLYJACK 654]

Video..

He gets some case things wrong forgets about wind drift and believes Gryder's theory but still an interesting video.

 

[FLYJACK 654]

Ulis gets it wrong,,, again

He is looking for the hair sample,, thinks it is lost in Quantico..

Nope,, the very latest mention in the current FBI docs July 2002 has it going to Seattle FBI.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by FLYJACK