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BruceSmith

Public Service Announcement


Jo is having trouble getting her book on Duane written despite years of encouragement from others, such as yours truly.

Plus, the Duane story is getting thicker by the day and his contact list is growing far beyond what most of us can remember.

So, I think it is time we helped Jo and started a list of Duane's buddies.

Here's what I remember:

1. Duane is related to Boeing's Stan Gilliam through his mother.
2. Duane met Mel Wilson in Florida, back when.
3. Duane was John C Collins, and a John C collins stayed in a Portland area motel on November 24, 1971, or thereabouts.\
4. Duane knew Richard Tosaw, somehow, maybe through his brother John.



Bruce, please note somewhere in your list that, despite Jo's claims, Georger was not responsible for JFK's death and that I was NOT related to Duane Weber.

Robert99

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Robert99

***

. . . it might be easier to tell someone's true height if you saw them instead out in the open, or standing next to them at a bus stop. Or...at the luggage carousel. Inside a plane might be tougher than you think.



Blevins, You have just pulled the rug out from under your own claims. You were seated, the other guy was probably standing 20+ feet from you, and you had nothing to reference his height to. You just guessed.

Robert99

I wasn't 'claiming' anything. It was just a subjective experience I related from a flight I took on another 727. The point was plain and simple. Boone looked taller than he really was. And I think being inside an airliner cabin had something to do with it. This is because once he was out in the open, it was easy to see he was shorter than I was. Not scientific, just a personal observation.

Maybe this is the reason even the stewardesses couldn't agree on how tall Cooper was exactly, and the same thing goes for the other witnesses. No matter how you cut the mustard, descriptions by witnesses on Cooper ran anywhere from 'No taller than five-nine' (Robert Gregory) 'Six feet, no shorter' (Flo Schaffner) 'Between five ten and six feet' (Tina Mucklow) So who is right? Or do we just pick a number? Gray notes in his book that when Mucklow came out of the jet in that rain to get the money bag, she was talking non-stop, and that Al Lee thought she was in shock. Flo Schaffner's hands were shaking all over the place when she examined Christiansen's picture for Gray in 2007. There are some other notes about Schaffner thinking she would have to jump, or would be raped. The portrayal of these poor stewardesses as beacons of courage is true in some ways, but not so much in other ways. They were forced to try and keep it together for the sake of the passengers, the rest of the flight crew, their own lives, and the feelings of their families. They were scared shitless, in my opinion. There may have been a few moments of joking between Mucklow and the hijacker, but I don't think that is enough to say she was cool and calm about the whole thing. Maybe it was a survival mechanism. A bit of Stockholm Syndrome perhaps. I don't know for sure. Or maybe she just didn't want Cooper to get upset and decide to set off the bomb. She won't discuss the hijacking today, so there's no way to know for sure.

Rataczak told Porteous that everyone on the flight deck thought the last sound they would ever hear was the bang of the bomb. During the hijacking, some shrink told the crew he thought Cooper would jump and blow up the plane on his way out. Rataczak wanted to fly out over the Pacific and let Cooper jump there. He said so in this article for the San Francisco Chronicle. (Interesting article, although there are a couple of minor errors. One is that Cooper 'scooped up his cigarette butts,' which we know is not true.)

I have to admit it was a novel idea. But it does prove that everyone working that flight was under some duress. They were probably also tired from the long flight, the stops, more night flying coming up to God knows where.

I actually trust some of the passengers' descriptions more, because they were not under such duress. They had no idea what was happening. But the bottom line is that no one can be absolutely sure on Cooper's description because there were too many versions of it given to the FBI. I would say the only thing you could count on to be accurate might be the sketch, but still...it isn't a photograph either.

As Geoff Gray said in his book, (and he was allowed access to the original witness reports and a number of the case files) the details are conflicting. The truth is, no matter what the FBI says now, the witnesses were all over the place on the description. No two of them seemed to agree on much of anything. So how do you pick one description of Cooper out of all that? The truth is you can't.


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Robert99

***Public Service Announcement


Jo is having trouble getting her book on Duane written despite years of encouragement from others, such as yours truly.

Plus, the Duane story is getting thicker by the day and his contact list is growing far beyond what most of us can remember.

So, I think it is time we helped Jo and started a list of Duane's buddies.

Here's what I remember:

1. Duane is related to Boeing's Stan Gilliam through his mother.
2. Duane met Mel Wilson in Florida, back when.
3. Duane was John C Collins, and a John C collins stayed in a Portland area motel on November 24, 1971, or thereabouts.\
4. Duane knew Richard Tosaw, somehow, maybe through his brother John.



Bruce, please note somewhere in your list that, despite Jo's claims, Georger was not responsible for JFK's death and that I was NOT related to Duane Weber.

Robert99


You have my deepest sympathies, Robert99.

As for Georger not killing JFK, I thought Jerry Warren was the Man With the Black Umbrella, and had been cleared recently by 20/20.

Along those lines, Netflix is showing a wonderful documentary on the JFK shooting and presents compelling information that JFK's killing shot was an accidental discharge from a Secret Service M-16 kept in the following car.

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BruceSmith

******Public Service Announcement


Jo is having trouble getting her book on Duane written despite years of encouragement from others, such as yours truly.

Plus, the Duane story is getting thicker by the day and his contact list is growing far beyond what most of us can remember.

So, I think it is time we helped Jo and started a list of Duane's buddies.

Here's what I remember:

1. Duane is related to Boeing's Stan Gilliam through his mother.
2. Duane met Mel Wilson in Florida, back when.
3. Duane was John C Collins, and a John C collins stayed in a Portland area motel on November 24, 1971, or thereabouts.\
4. Duane knew Richard Tosaw, somehow, maybe through his brother John.



Bruce, please note somewhere in your list that, despite Jo's claims, Georger was not responsible for JFK's death and that I was NOT related to Duane Weber.

Robert99


You have my deepest sympathies, Robert99, but you have been identified by Jo as someone who knows Duane Weber. As a result you must be added to The List.

At least no one is accusing you of murder...

...yet.

Do you get some enjoyment out of something like that? No one, myself included, took her accusation the least bit seriously. In fact, I PM'd her and pointed out a few things and asked her to stop saying that.

Picking on Jo Weber seems to be a favorite item around here, with Cooper somewhat secondary. Her only real problem is trying to coordinate a single important point at a time, something that can be verified, checked out. She does go off on tangents that are difficult to follow. And when you do that, people are naturally going to lose interest. I skip over some of her posts when I can't figure what they are about. She makes it tough to help her, even if you wanted to. That's the main problem.

But on a personal level, I try not to pick on her too much. What's the point, right? Whether she is right or wrong on Duane, she is also in a difficult situation. None of us are trying to figure out if our former spouse was actually the hijacker. Anyone except Jo who is checking out a suspect is checking out someone not related to them, which is somewhat easier to deal with on a personal level. I actually have some sympathy for her sometimes. Must be tough to be stuck in that situation for so many years, and to not really know the truth for sure.


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BruceSmith

Public Service Announcement


Jo is having trouble getting her book on Duane written despite years of encouragement from others, such as yours truly.

Quote


:PJo restates - I was not writing a book and the only reason I am here is to be heard and for the people to know that JO did try to tell them for yrs the truth and maybe some one is still laive who had knowledge of the crime and witll finally come forward.





Here's what I remember:

1. Duane is related to Boeing's Stan Gilliam through his mother.

Quote

:|Jo STATES: Duane's mother's best friend's daughter married Stanley Gilliam. As usual you put your dirty twist onto things. The fact stated above does NOT make Duane related to Gilliam. You are a user of other peoples lives & put YOUR sick ways of thinking on words that had no intention of being directed at you do..



2. Duane met Mel Wilson in Florida, back when.

Quote

[:/]:|>:( Jo STATES:NOT WHAT I SAID! DUANE MET MEL WILSON IN SAN QUENTIN AND/OR KNEW HIM FROM THE OAKDALE AREA...WHY BECAUSE I HAVE PICTURES TAKEN IN THE BACK OF AN APARTMENT IN THE 60'S IN OAKDAY.
DUANE ALSO KNEW HIM FROM A PLACE "THEY" WENT TO. Perhaps the remember a girl named Lana.




3. Duane was John C Collins & he stayed in a Portland area motel on November 24, 1971, or thereabouts. He would also

Quote

Jo STATES: I would assume that from the thing MJ told me & that Duane stated...but, exactily what date? Think you got it wrong - the jump was on the 24th, but Cooper probably spent the night there the evening before he boarded the flight on the 24th! You aren't to bright - you feed off of everyone else and then put your twist on things.

4. Duane knew Richard Tosaw, somehow, maybe through his brother John.



>:(>:(
:|[:/][:/]
Sad Sad Sad! ONly a mind like yours would have thought I said that! I SAID TOSAW KNEW DUANE'S BROTHER THRU BIBLE CLASS AND THE BOAT CLUB - HIS WIFE EVEN ENTERED THIS PART OF THE CONVERSATION....A WELL,
EDUCATED WOMAN & A PROFESSIONAL
.


Jo States:
THIS is how you respected my wishes and this is HOW - I AM GOING INTO SURGERY ON MY HAND AND WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DEFEND MYSELF FROM YOUR ATROCITY POSTINGS.

The date for the surgery was set, but it is a couple of wks away...I will be in a hard cast for over 2 wks.


Please refrain from your statements...remember you are NOT going to write a chapter on DUANE - I would not want his story TAINTED by the likes of your creepy writing...which is uually twisted but YOU are a repulsive Enquirer typ guy - I do not even consider you a writer....you plagurize statement from this thread and then to add insult you have an interpretation that was never in any way meant and you know it.


Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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***
Issue 1.
I was not writing a book & the only reason I am here is to be heard & for the people to know that JO did try to tell them for yrs the truth & maybe some one is still aliive who had knowledge of the crime & will finally come forward.

Issue 2.
Duane's mother's best friend was the mother of the woman who became the bride of Stanley Gilliam.

This does not make Duane related to Gilliam as a certain sick poster continues to claim.


Issue 3.
Connections to Mel Wilson:
Duane talked about this man & aimed he knew him more than one time and talked about a bar they often freqented.

Only recently did VICKIE mention her father was in the same prison as Duane was and their stays overlapped! Duane and his wife also lived in the Oakdale area at the same time Wilson was supposedly there. I have a pic
TAKEN IN THE BACK OF AN APARTMENT IN THE 60'S IN OAKDALE .


Perhaps Vickie or one of her siblings has a memory buried deeply within their childhood of some one her mother or father spoke about - I have pictures of the woman in question her mother may have known - but cannot make them availble on the site or for public use.

If Vickie wants me to send her a copy of the pics - on a very private basis - she just might find a pic of this woman in her mother's album.

This woman had 4 childern & one of them is deceased. A young lady who also used variations of her real name.

She told me she used to babysit for a friend of her mothers..one of the other swingers. Don't know if I made notes of this conversation -
she mentioned 2 small children and a name they called her. She talked about how those kids loved her. Often wondered if one of those kids was Duane's.

I have a pic of this girl as a
teenager. Vickie MIGHT recognize or find in family photos a pic of this girl....and the name they used to call her because their young verbal skill had not developed to say Lana and it was something like Anna.

Older children of these people often baby sat for the smaller children....I have a pic of her but would never post it.

I can mail a private copy with a STAMP on it that use of the print for publication is a violation of the privacy law and/or whatever it takes. 377 can tell how this would be done...between Vickie and myself.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Another Public Service Announcement and Quiz

Parrot Man at the Shutter site raises an interesting point about the FBI. In one of his comments he says, "The FBI are not dummies."

Hence, the question: What are the FBI? If not "dummies," then how can the FBI in the Norjak investigation be best described?

Here are your choices:

1. Unlucky.

2. Solid, but they need more resources, another 1,000 agents and $100 million should do it.

3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.

4. Federal bureaucracies are like women: hard to manage, never on time, and rarely get the job done. But they look good doing whatever it is that they do.

5. Okay as cops, but they need more time because DB Cooper is a complicate case with multiple jurisdictions, no hard evidence, etc....

6. Sloppy at times, but basically decent.

7. Better than NCIS!

8. Left-wing, pinko, liberal Democrat crap like Prince Bruce have NO IDEA about the FBI and shouldn't even be asking this question.

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This is my selection:

Quote

'3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.'



You could point to any number of reasons why the FBI has failed to solve Norjak. My personal opinion is because they were looking in the wrong place. Yes...this has to do with Kenny Christiansen. Himmelsbach has admitted that the FBI never even considered it could have been an inside job, and despite what you may have heard, neither did Northwest Airlines. If it turns out that KC was Cooper, (still unproven, of course) then you could point to that failure as the main reason.

I have a short bit of news related to Bernie Geestman, the guy we alleged as Kenny Christiansen's accomplice to the hijacking. Remember when Geestman told the cast of Decoded that he visited Kenny Christiansen as Kenny was dying of cancer in 1994? That turns out to be untrue. Not a surprise he lied about that too, I suppose.

I checked with Lyle Christiansen and another source who was at Kenny's house while he was dying. (Kenny was under hospice-type home care while in the late stages of cancer) Both Lyle and the source confirm that Bernie Geestman never visited personally, but CALLED the house and asked to speak to Kenny, and when Kenny was put on the phone that Kenny asked for privacy. NOTE: At the time of the call, Geestman had not spoken to Kenny for years, and there had been some kind of falling-out between the two men about sixteen years previously. (1978) No one knows what it was about except Margie Geestman and she wouldn't talk about it.
Our guess is that it had something to do with money.

Anyway...it was just a couple of days later when Kenny told Lyle his famous 'There is something you should know, but I can't tell you...' line. Kenny died shortly afterward.

Our theory at AB of Seattle, (and this went into the report) is that Bernie Geestman called Kenny to see if Kenny was planning on saying anything about the hijacking before he died. And if this is what happened, that Bernie probably told Kenny that if he did, both he and Margie would be in a great deal of trouble. And that he talked Kenny out of making a deathbed confession. In addition, according to Margie Geestman, Bernie broke into her house up in Twisp about a month after Kenny died and stole several items. (The couple were separated and going through a divorce at the time) These items included photos showing the two men working together, some complete photo albums, some personal papers, and his 1971 logbook from Foss Tugs. And although logbooks ranging from 1968 on were all in the same box, Geestman only took the one from the year of the hijacking. (We believe his did this because the logbook could prove he was not working the week the hijacking occurred, as he has claimed previously he WAS working that week.)

That is a theory of course, but you have to wonder why Geestman lied to Decoded about being at Kenny's deathbed. Then, seventeen years after Kenny's death, Geestman tells the cast of Decoded that Kenny could be the hijacker because he 'looks just like him'. (The sketch) The thought around here is that since Kenny was no longer alive, and Geestman hadn't been confronted with his ex-wife's testimony, and...that he didn't know Helen Jones had placed him missing with Kenny the week of the hijacking...that Bernie felt safe enough to volunteer this opinion to the Decoded cast. He just chose that moment to throw Kenny under the bus. To us, there doesn't seem to be any other explanation that fits the facts.

Pete Berg, the associate producer for Decoded, told me that he wished dearly that Helen Jones would have agreed to appear on the show. He had plans of bringing in Jones to refute Geestman's bullshit. Too bad it turned out the way it did. But the one thing Bernie forgot is that some members of his own family might see the show later...and they DID. ;)


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Quote

"...This is my selection:

***'3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.'



You could point to any number of reasons why the FBI has failed to solve Norjak..."



Yup, exactly. That's what I'm trying to do - "point to the reasons why the FBI has failed to solve Norjak" and determine how that has happened.

Okay, so you say the FBI is top-notch but somehow some crimes are just unsolvable.

Hmmm. Nevertheless, how would you characterize the FBI losing their top piece of evidence, the eight cigarette butts?

Is that the hallmark of a top-notch organization?

Bobby, you say the FBI is top-notch, but just "looking in the wrong place."

So, how, or why, does a top-notch organization look in the wrong place?

Basically I'm asking: Can a top-notch LE look in the wrong place and still be top-notch, especially when you have been pointing out the correct place for the past five years?

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BruceSmith

Another Public Service Announcement and Quiz

Parrot Man at the Shutter site raises an interesting point about the FBI. In one of his comments he says, "The FBI are not dummies."

Hence, the question: What are the FBI? If not "dummies," then how can the FBI in the Norjak investigation be best described?

Here are your choices:

1. Unlucky.

2. Solid, but they need more resources, another 1,000 agents and $100 million should do it.

3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.

4. Federal bureaucracies are like women: hard to manage, never on time, and rarely get the job done. But they look good doing whatever it is that they do.

5. Okay as cops, but they need more time because DB Cooper is a complicate case with multiple jurisdictions, no hard evidence, etc....

6. Sloppy at times, but basically decent.

7. Better than NCIS!

8. Left-wing, pinko, liberal Democrat crap like Prince Bruce have NO IDEA about the FBI and shouldn't even be asking this question.




HELLO OUT THERE TO ALL YOU VIEWERS WHO DON'T POST!


147 folks have viewed the above post in the past eight hours and only one person posted a response.

If you are shy but would like to vote, you can send me your tally via email if you would like: bruce smith (one word) at rainier connect (one word) dot com .

Also, if you think more categories should be added, please be my guest.

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Actually, Bruce...the reason few people voted is because of the available responses. You want folks to trash the FBI due to their failure to solve the Cooper case. That is absolute bullshit, my friend.

You can read the history of the FBI anytime you want in a score of books. They are not perfect. No government organization can claim that distinction. But their history shows they definitely know how to bring down the bad guys and busy themselves protecting hard-working Americans from more dangers than you can imagine. As you know, they investigated more than a thousand suspects and spent millions of dollars trying to solve Norjack, which is far beyond the actual public costs of the crime.

We are better protected today on airline travel due to the Cooper case. If you look at the bigger picture of things, this is a benefit far and above simply figuring out who got away with $200,000 jumping from a jet.

D.B. Cooper, whomever he was, should be considered an American hero. He risked his life, got paid for it, and delivered safer air travel for millions. People are ALIVE today because of Cooper. He hurt no one in doing so, and although his motives may have been selfish or desperate, he probably had no idea that his actions would make people safer the next time they boarded a domestic flight. ;)


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BruceSmith

***Another Public Service Announcement and Quiz

Parrot Man at the Shutter site raises an interesting point about the FBI. In one of his comments he says, "The FBI are not dummies."

Hence, the question: What are the FBI? If not "dummies," then how can the FBI in the Norjak investigation be best described?

Here are your choices:

1. Unlucky.

2. Solid, but they need more resources, another 1,000 agents and $100 million should do it.

3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.

4. Federal bureaucracies are like women: hard to manage, never on time, and rarely get the job done. But they look good doing whatever it is that they do.

5. Okay as cops, but they need more time because DB Cooper is a complicate case with multiple jurisdictions, no hard evidence, etc....

6. Sloppy at times, but basically decent.

7. Better than NCIS!

8. Left-wing, pinko, liberal Democrat crap like Prince Bruce have NO IDEA about the FBI and shouldn't even be asking this question.




HELLO OUT THERE TO ALL YOU VIEWERS WHO DON'T POST!


147 folks have viewed the above post in the past eight hours and only one person posted a response.

If you are shy but would like to vote, you can send me your tally via email if you would like: bruce smith (one word) at rainier connect (one word) dot com .

Also, if you think more categories should be added, please be my guest.

YES, you need a new category, Bruce, and you know I ain't shy. "Skilled, dedicated but very poorly led." Too much secrecy and lack of oversight. Instructions to supply the parachutes for the mission were slow to get in the right hands. It was the only task assigned to 'the boys' and the involved agents did not get the job done quickly. The actual working agents were not aware of the Project and simply followed instructions. I have not done a good job of explaining this in the past, but that is what happened. The FBI knows exactly what happened but are hog-tied to do anything about it. Complicity, tampering, national security, legalities, workload priorities, even embarrassment, you name it. I have discussed it at length with a number of forthcoming agents and CIA McCoy. O'Hara won't discuss it because he promised not to. Good for him. I was forced to promise under duress, so my promise does not count.

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RobertMBlevins

Actually, Bruce...the reason few people voted is because of the available responses. You want folks to trash the FBI due to their failure to solve the Cooper case. That is absolute bullshit, my friend.

You can read the history of the FBI anytime you want in a score of books. They are not perfect. No government organization can claim that distinction. But their history shows they definitely know how to bring down the bad guys and busy themselves protecting hard-working Americans from more dangers than you can imagine. As you know, they investigated more than a thousand suspects and spent millions of dollars trying to solve Norjack, which is far beyond the actual public costs of the crime.

We are better protected today on airline travel due to the Cooper case. If you look at the bigger picture of things, this is a benefit far and above simply figuring out who got away with $200,000 jumping from a jet.

D.B. Cooper, whomever he was, should be considered an American hero. He risked his life, got paid for it, and delivered safer air travel for millions. People are ALIVE today because of Cooper. He hurt no one in doing so, and although his motives may have been selfish or desperate, he probably had no idea that his actions would make people safer the next time they boarded a domestic flight. ;)



OMG!!! Bleeper, you have adopted MY position!! But there WERE people that were hurt. Tina is NUMBER ONE!! Psychological problems and failed remedies you would not wish on a terrorist. O'Hara hasn't worked for the FBI for a long time, primarily due to this Project, I think. My life was negatively affected, also. And you have to spend half your life creating cover-up bull-crap to feed the populous to avoid prosecution and embarrassment. Not exactly a Thanksgiving Party they threw, Bleep.

He didn't get away with $200,000.... He LOST most of it by burying it, unable to find where he buried it!! He saw what the results of the Project were, living in Florida for a very long time.

But I appreciate your partial capitulation to the truth. Now, accept Duane Weber AKA Dan Cooper, et.al., Project Norjak, a Government Authorized Covert Activity.

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[skyjack71]
"This group did all kinds in infiltration into the Mafia, Unions and other things - places only excons or desperate people would fit into. The did the job for the money - but all of them were loyal to their commander and chief. He provide for them and helped them to turn their lives around.

In fact I also admire the man for what he did - even though the federal government would have opposed and prosecuted this group had they had knowledge of what they REALLY did....some of these guys were renegades. The one I met turned out to be respectfully members of society & some of them are still alive."

______________________________________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Are you referring to the crew, "The Dog Boys?" The ones I call, "The Better Good Crew"? Scruffy, long-hair undercover guys that did as you suggest? Kind of a real-life "A Team"?

They also got into the porno industry, the mob, wrestling, knock-off watches and Lord knows what else.

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There were ex-cons and others involved in Air Amercia....they had to be people who would not be missed if they did not return.

The organization I refer to had nothing to do with - Air America, but individuals who participated were recruited for Protect and Do No Harm.

That is simple my name for this other group....created by a wonderful man who was loyal to his adopted country & wanted to do what he could.

The circles this man traveled in gave him a power few ever had....this man infiltrated the mafia & private sector to include the USA government protective organizations & the political arena as high as you can go. He was able to place informants where no secret service person could penetrate.

His guys learned there would be an attempt to assassinate Kennedy, but they knew all they could do was BE THERE & hope to intercept. That interception might have worked had they been allowed to carry arms...but, they were denied that privilege.

What they did was observe & to attempt to defoil the rumored plan.

Very few if any of them are alive.
They were NOT the long hair groupies Knoss refers to. Most of them were indiviudals who wanted to serve their country, but did not fit into the military regiment sector. They infiltrated the Mafia. the Unions & multiple other organization.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

D.B. Cooper, whomever he was, should be considered an American hero. He risked his life, got paid for it, and delivered safer air travel for millions. People are ALIVE today because of Cooper. He hurt no one in doing so, and although his motives may have been selfish or desperate, he probably had no idea that his actions would make people safer the next time they boarded a domestic flight. ;)



Blevins, THE ABOVE IS PURE BULLSHIT. And it is typical of the fantasy world in which you apparently exist.

Cooper was a two-bit jerk who was probably dead before 8:20 PM and before the airliner got south of Portland. He didn't save a single life. In case you haven't heard, his actions triggered a number of other hijackings in which people did die.

Your efforts to make Cooper a hero are silly and based on your own wishful thinking. A glamorous hijacker hero also makes it easier for you to peddle the crap you call a book, doesn't it?

For your information, prior to the start of the hijacking craze, all you had to do was buy a ticket, get on the plane, and then get off when you reached your destination. That was called air travel and it was efficient and safe.

Cooper and other such wackos changed that and only perverted minds would call them heros.

Robert99

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***

Cooper didn't save a single life. In case you haven't heard, his actions triggered a number of other hijackings in which people did die.

Cooper and other such wackos changed that and only perverted minds would call them heros.

Robert99

The parts of your greivance regarding the statement by Blevins I copied above & I concur with....to be brief I copied only those words I agreed with.

Sounds like a conflict per other statements I have made, but I do not seem to be able to get thru to others with words what I know.

Duane is dead and the dead do not talk... he made odd statements that to me indicate there was more than one.

Cooper only esculated the problem...but it did end up with the Cooper Vane. Duane used to say during our marriage he had something famous named after him and I would always say yea - "Weber Grills" and then he would say "Weber Bread". I had NOT realized this was not a joke until much later one yr and 3 months after his death.

Like I said - I always took that statement as a joke until after I started to research the case after I found out who Dan Cooper was.

He was talking about the Cooper Vane. Until I read Gunther's book or some other article in my research....I was unaware of the Cooper Vane.

Gunther's book although fiction was my first real knowledge of the case....and by page 13 I was on the phone to the FBI. A few more pages and I was back on the phone. Then a few chapters later back on the phone and then I gave up.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo Weber Writes:

Duane used to say during our marriage he had something famous named after him . . .

He was talking about the Cooper Vane. Until I read Gunther's book or some other article in my research....I was unaware of the Cooper Vane.

R99 Replies:

The Cooper vane applies only to the Boeing 727 and no other aircraft.

This is because the designers of the aft stairs on the 727 apparently made a mistake and never considered the possibility that the stairs could be lowered even during flight.

The designers of the aft stairs on other aircraft did not make that mistake and the stairs on their aircraft were not capable of being lowered in flight. They were locked up and could not be unlocked in flight.

However, D.B. Cooper, and not Duane Weber, was aware of this possibility on the 727 and they is why he went out of his way to make sure he would be on a 727 that afternoon in Portland.

Robert99

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BobKnoss



Are you referring to the crew, "The Dog Boys?" The ones I call, "The Better Good Crew"? Scruffy, long-hair undercover guys that did as you suggest? Kind of a real-life "A Team"?

They also got into the porno industry, the mob, wrestling, knock-off watches and Lord knows what else.



I have NO knowledge of these groups your mind connects to...what you speak of has nothing to do with Cooper. Buried within your mind perhaps are some truths - but, you have told so many ridiculous stories NO one believes a word you say.

Long hair in the 60's did NOT cut it with society....the war was going on.
Seems you live in a time warp, but perhaps it is age, your health and the medications that twist thing around.

You have claimed many thing. I did copy all of the stuff you sent to me and notes of the conversations we had.

I listened to you build a story that went completely off the wall. You were very subjective.

Then I gave you FALSE information delilberately - this false info was copied to another person who is creditable & I have copies of the communications...

You took the bait & rolled with it. The REASON everything you say now is not creditable.

Your claim of knowing Weber you screwed up...because it did NOT match the facts. I do believe you have met Duane - but not how you have claimed.

When are you going to be able to tell the REAL story about how you met Duane Weber? NO non truths - just the facts - the whole truth and nothing more.

Where you in prison with Weber? Where you in prison under an alias? Where you ever in N.Orleans and who did you know there?

Where you a swinger & did you participate along with your wife in one or more of the shindigs....if you have children I am sure this is something you didn't want them to known.

What is your age now & how old were you when you met Weber & what yr was it? REMEMBER the story you told before - is NOT true and has been proven to not be true! You had nothing to do with preparation for the skyjacking - but, you have met Duane Weber & it was NOT related to skyjumping as you claimed.

Come clean and maybe - just maybe someone might listen....but, the weird things you claim just did not happen.

Buried somewhere in your mind is a connection to WEBER - but are you able to find it? I need for you to forget all of the crazy things YOU have claimed - not to keep harping on them...but some place deep inside of your mind is a truth about how you first met Weber & perhaps your only connection to Weber.

Please produce it & stop with all of the garbage you spew out. YOU have complicated & disembowel the investigation. Please take a plunger to the toilet....flush out the untruths & tell the truth for the very first time.

Use simple words & dates that others can connect with...then & only then will you ever be heard. The GARBAGE you spew - has nothing to do with how you knew Weber.

Please untangle your mind if only for a while & tell the truth...you never know when this day might be your last. You have contacted me using other aliases & email addresses - I always read thru the syntec. A waste of time. Don't do that again.

Time for the truth - tomorrow may never come.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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R99 Replies:

The Cooper vane applies only to the Boeing 727 and no other aircraft.



The ex SAS DC 9-21 (owned by the Perris Valley DZ in CA) that I jumped out of in 2006 had a Cooper Vane but it didn't stop us from jumping as the airstairs had been removed for the jump flights. I took a close-up photo of the Cooper Vane and have it somewhere.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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from Wikipedia:

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A Cooper vane (also sometimes called a Dan Cooper switch or D.B. Cooper device) is a mechanical aerodynamic wedge that prevents the ventral airstair of an aircraft being lowered in flight.[1] In the United States, following three hijackings in 1972, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered that Boeing 727 aircraft be fitted with Cooper vanes.[2] The device was named for an unidentified airplane hijacker dubbed D. B. Cooper, who used the rear stairway to exit a Boeing 727 in flight and make his escape via parachute.


The cooper vane in place on the aircraft. The front of the aircraft is to the bottom left; the vane rotates clockwise through 90 degrees to secure the ramp.
The Cooper vane is a very simple device consisting of a spring-loaded paddle connected to a plate. When the aircraft is on the ramp, the spring keeps the paddle perpendicular to the fuselage, and the attached plate does not block the stairway. As the aircraft takes off, the airflow pushes the paddle parallel to the fuselage and the plate is moved underneath the stairway, preventing it being lowered. Once the airflow decreases on landing, the spring-loaded paddle returns to its initial position, thereby allowing the stairs to be lowered again. Although this device was intended to prevent hijackings aboard the 727 and other aircraft with a ventral airstair, many airlines sealed the airstair entirely, never to use it again.

Douglas DC 9 aircraft with ventral stairs were also equipped with Cooper vanes. The DC 9-21 used for skydiving at the 2006 World Free Fall Convention in Rantoul, Illinois, had one installed, but since the rear pressure bulkhead door and the stairs had been removed to facilitate fast jumper exits, the vane, which was left in place, did not prevent jumps.[3]



377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Robert99



The Cooper vane applies only to the Boeing 727 and no other aircraft.

This is because the designers of the aft stairs on the 727 apparently made a mistake and never considered the possibility that the stairs could be lowered even during flight.

The designers of the aft stairs on other aircraft did not make that mistake and the stairs on their aircraft were not capable of being lowered in flight. They were locked up and could not be unlocked in flight.

However, D.B. Cooper, and not Duane Weber, was aware of this possibility on the 727 and they is why he went out of his way to make sure he would be on a 727 that afternoon in Portland.

Robert99




Well, sir you have not researched the history of Duane's family I presented.
Duane's brother had the schematic of the 727 in his home...I know others have claimed that was not true...

John C. Weber worked for BOEING and so did Gilliam. Some how Gilliam was instrumental in testing the aft way in its developmental stage or the experiments regarding it useage for making drops by removing or adapting parts of it...I was not clear on that part.

Duane's Uncle in Chicago who worked with Sherwin Williams developed and provide the paint used on the 727's.

Old census records indicate his brother or uncle or both at one time worked with Sherwin Williams as did other members of the family. I can supply that information as it was sent to me by a very wonderful woman I hope is still alive.

At the time of the FIRE BOMBS his uncle was called back into service because of his work in Chemical Warfare....he was the consultant for the Fire Bombs as a civil servant.

Both of the men were connected to Weber. John told me himself - so this is NOT something I fabricated.

Duane even had a pictures of the unveiling of the 727....and told me about that - but, when I mentioned this yrs ago - no one seemed to believe me. He even said he was there or someone he knew was there.

That was when he told me about the developement of the 727, but at the time he made his confession this memory was just part of the log-ins in my memory bank....but his brother was the one who verified it.

There was testing done with that plane regarding the aft way long before Cooper did his jump. Look very carefully at those pictures and you will see a man with white hair and with the backward bent knees.

Who is that man? Was he a relative of Weber? I have no idea :)
Those men knew about the aftway and that it could be used in the manner that Weber/Cooper used it.

I know I have ramble with this information & I do have the records in front of me,but due to circumstances beyond my control I not can pull them out of the files

Note:
I have referenced them many times in the yrs I have been on this thread.

Facing surgery on my hand (why I cannot go to the storage & pull the records) with my other health issue is not going to be a picnic....afraid that when they do the pre-opt testing they will not do the surgery.....

I have posted all of that information word for word from the census reports in this thread.

Sorry about the disorder and rambling but I have to go.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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"...A Cooper vane (also sometimes called a Dan Cooper switch or D.B. Cooper device) is a mechanical aerodynamic wedge that prevents the ventral airstair of an aircraft being lowered in flight..."



Three Seven-Seven, the COOPER exhibit at the WSHM had a Cooper Vane displayed not too far from your twenty! Unfortunately, it was not presented in an eye-grabbing manner, so most people just walked past it.

I wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for Meyer Louie, who at EVERYTHING up close. He spotted it and asked me how it worked. It was fun swinging the vane back and forth - it had a pretty good spring on it.

The American Airlines 727 displayed at the Museum of Flight also has a Cooper Vane installed. It's actually quite small. But it does the job!

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Quiz Update

So, why can't the FBI solve Norjak?

Readers have offered a few more options, so I have expanded the list. Here are your choices:

1. Unlucky.

2. Solid, but they need more resources, another 1,000 agents and $100 million should do it.

3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.

4. Federal bureaucracies are like women: hard to manage, never on time, and rarely get the job done. But they look good doing whatever it is that they do.

5. Okay as cops, but they need more time because DB Cooper is a complicate case with multiple jurisdictions, no hard evidence, etc....

6. Sloppy at times, but basically decent.

7. Better than NCIS!

8. Left-wing, pinko, liberal Democrat crap like Prince Bruce have NO IDEA about the FBI and shouldn't even be asking this question.

9. Capable and hard-working, but the leadership is poor.

10. Slicker-than-spit in running the cover-up. 40 years and counting, and only Coss had to get whacked.

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"...Actually, Bruce...the reason few people voted is because of the available responses. You want folks to trash the FBI due to their failure to solve the Cooper case. That is absolute bullshit, my friend...."



I'm confused Bobby. Above you seem to say that the FBI should be above reproach even though they have failed to solve Norjak.

Then you go on to say that the FBI is "not perfect." Then you go on to cite their long history of keeping us safe.

I'm not looking to trash the FBI and their long history of public service, only solicit attitudes on what folks think is the FBI's problem with Norjak.

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