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DB Cooper

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3 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

I'm willing to bet he survived and laughed at every bit of this through the years sitting on a beach and drinking whatever he wanted.  For years.  Probably decades.  I bet he lived a good life.  He was probably a regular guy who had enough and didn't tell anyone.  Hes also probably dead from old age.

Or he died out there when he jumped and had the rest of his life to figure out how to spend the money.

I'll take that bet.

Now, how much are we betting and will you be sending my winnings via Paypal?^.^

 

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(edited)
17 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Fly. 85 would still leave 215 Tbar bills. Do we not know the serial numbers on those other 215 or so? As I understand, Brian got back a portion and the insurance company a portion. Did the FBI keep some? The initials on the bills make me think this was found at Tina Bar. I’ve heard speculation that agents took some as souvenirs. 

Another point..

At the time, the FBI claimed the money came from one bundle, that is the three packets of 100 bills were in one rubber banded bundle just as it went to Cooper.

The FBI could have compared the TBAR serial numbers with the original unsorted money list. That list was in physical order, the public list we have was re-ordered alphanumerically. With the original unsorted list it can be determined which packet of 100 the TBAR bills came from. All the bill serial numbers for those 3 packets could have been identified from the list..  and the three packets must have been sequential for the FBI to claim they were from one bundle. Checking the TBAR bills against the original unsorted list would have confirmed 3 packets of 100, 300 bills = $6000.

Unfortunately, we don't have that original unsorted list of bills in physical order.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 hours ago, Rustbucket350 said:

I'm willing to bet he survived and laughed at every bit of this through the years sitting on a beach and drinking whatever he wanted.  For years.  Probably decades.  I bet he lived a good life.  He was probably a regular guy who had enough and didn't tell anyone.  Hes also probably dead from old age.

Or he died out there when he jumped and had the rest of his life to figure out how to spend the money.

None of the money outside of the TBAR find ever turned up in circulation,, Based on his estimated age he is almost certainly dead by now. 

All the other 727 hijackers survived their jumps..

Statistically, the probability of surviving the jump is high, the probability of spending the money into circulation in the US is low.

He may have lost all or most of the money in the jump and survived.

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(edited)

Eric Ulis does a vid arguing his western flight path theory.. he gives three points.

 

#3. Wrong - Eric argues that a 727 is physically incapable of following the "FBI" path,, he fails to understand that this path was drawn from plotted points. It isn't precise and can be smoothed within the plotting error to fit a 727 flightpath. Eric has misinterpreted the path, it was a series of plots (minutes) that a guy just drew a line to connect them. It is not the planes actual path. He also claims the path was the trailing fighter, but the path doesn't match a trailing fighter..  

#2. Wrong - Eric argues nothing was found therefore the path was wrong,, This is a false statement, the accurate statement is that the FBI has not indicated anything was found. Two problems with this argument. First, we don't know nothing was found, something may have been found but never turned in or recognized by the FBI. Second, not finding anything doesn't prove the path was not accurate. 

#1. Wrong - Eric argues the TBAR money find 8 miles west proves the path was wrong. This is a logical fallacy. We can't prove beyond some theories how the money have arrived on TBAR with the "FBI" path and Cooper's DZ.. Eric is using an unknown to reject the "FBI" path that has lots of supporting evidence. I have three good theories that can put the money on TBAR, maintain the "FBI" path and Cooper's DZ. There may be others nobody has thought of.. because we can't prove how the money got to TBAR doesn't negate the "FBI" path and the supporting evidence.

 

Dan Gryder in the comments claimed the plane was on autopilot.. that was reported erroneously in the FBI files... Bill Rataczak said he was manually flying the plane. Dan is wrong, Eric is correct.

 

 

 

Here is a smoothed flightpath... it may not be exact but it is within the plotting error and a path that a 727 could do.

 

FlightPathsmoothed.thumb.jpg.95bdbb69129d5a42572cd5c2b837db80.jpg

 

FlightPathsmoothedlight.thumb.jpg.c140f5e26b4d25831f2c8b9e87690f91.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
On 3/1/2022 at 10:11 AM, FLYJACK said:

Eric Ulis does a vid arguing his western flight path theory.. he gives three points.

 

#3. Wrong - Eric argues that a 727 is physically incapable of following the "FBI" path,, he fails to understand that this path was drawn from plotted points. It isn't precise and can be smoothed within the plotting error to fit a 727 flightpath. Eric has misinterpreted the path, it was a series of plots (minutes) that a guy just drew a line to connect them. It is not the planes actual path. He also claims the path was the trailing fighter, but the path doesn't match a trailing fighter..  

#2. Wrong - Eric argues nothing was found therefore the path was wrong,, This is a false statement, the accurate statement is that the FBI has not indicated anything was found. Two problems with this argument. First, we don't know nothing was found, something may have been found but never turned in or recognized by the FBI. Second, not finding anything doesn't prove the path was not accurate. 

#1. Wrong - Eric argues the TBAR money find 8 miles west proves the path was wrong. This is a logical fallacy. We can't prove beyond some theories how the money have arrived on TBAR with the "FBI" path and Cooper's DZ.. Eric is using an unknown to reject the "FBI" path that has lots of supporting evidence. I have three good theories that can put the money on TBAR, maintain the "FBI" path and Cooper's DZ. There may be others nobody has thought of.. because we can't prove how the money got to TBAR doesn't negate the "FBI" path and the supporting evidence.

 

Dan Gryder in the comments claimed the plane was on autopilot.. that was reported erroneously in the FBI files... Bill Rataczak said he was manually flying the plane. Dan is wrong, Eric is correct.

 

 

 

Here is a smoothed flightpath... it may not be exact but it is within the plotting error and a path that a 727 could do.

 

FlightPathsmoothed.thumb.jpg.95bdbb69129d5a42572cd5c2b837db80.jpg

 

FlightPathsmoothedlight.thumb.jpg.c140f5e26b4d25831f2c8b9e87690f91.jpg

Eric's points are all political - not factual. Everything he says is factual nonsense, but public relations news notes designed to keep his name in the running for "one of the world's leading authorities on the DB Cooper case" - which is an invention. Eric might as well have said: unicorns cant fly the FBI flight path....  It is meaningless drivel.  

It's sad and a little unnerving given what people are having to deal with in the real world!

EU's method, is to invent fixes for problems that dont even exist and never existed, as if they are important and he should be thanked. 'A 727 couldnt fly the FBI flight path' is one of those inventions! Until Ulis brought it up it wasnt even an issue or a problem to be solved!! The whole thing is utter nonsense and a diversion/distraction away from the real problems EU has no solution for and doesn;t even see! It's public relations vs. science.

 

 

Edited by georger

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(edited)

Game this out,, the dummy reserve.

Why?

Why would Cooper take it or toss it?

If he took it whole, he would have had to tie it to himself,,  unlikely.

If he used it to carry money then there would have been some part left in the plane. It doesn't make sense that he opened it, removed the chute/parts then tossed those chute/parts. There would have been something left in the plane.

That leaves the idea that Cooper tossed it whole. Why?

It was reported that Cooper inspected the chutes, all were sealed except the dummy chute. He may have tossed it because it wasn't sealed and may have been tampered with.

Another reason may have been as a test. Toss it off the back to check the fall/drop before he goes.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
11 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

New episode is out now! Kyle Kesterson interviews Darren in this episode.

Enjoy!

https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-xq6f8-11c6be4

Interesting interview, but Ted Braden was not Cooper. He doesn't fit the description and profile. Braden clearly had the skills and was a badass but he looked like one as well, he had a very unique look. His hair was receding and straight, not curly/wavy/marceled. He had blue eyes. Stews told the sketch artist Cooper had a protruding lower lip, Braden did not. Cooper got giddy when he got the money, a badass like Braden wouldn't have. Cooper was not a hardened badass soldier, he was military but not a real tough guy.

Other than being a badass with skills there is no evidence for Braden and he doesn't match the description/profile.

Some of these suspects are unique people with great stories that elevate them within the Cooper discourse..  but that doesn't make them Cooper. 

ERqDm5EXkAEDp4G.thumb.jpg.b54783bd1269ea1f1c1cc712a17e8d3c.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK
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More evidence Cossey got Cooper's chutes wrong.. He either lied or assumed.

His first and consistent description of the chute Cooper took was sage green nylon container and sage green nylon harness model NB6.

Cosseychutestatement.jpeg.b0aa5c25297d03a8fce6bd09be3c52ba.jpeg

Cossey's description.

304763809_ScreenShot2022-03-05at5_36_41PM.png.c9c181585a270e0d2f569c8f0ed0cee8.png

Cossey describes Cooper's chute. He claims he actually made it for Hayden.  Later, he claimed he never heard of Hayden and it was his personally chute. That doesn't match what Hayden claimed.. Cossey re-packed the chute but Hayden bought it at a surplus shop.

He said the pilot chute was type A-3 "soft top".. Anybody know what a pilot chute type A-3 "soft top" is?

81269300_ScreenShot2022-03-05at5_36_50PM.png.fc2f1019d7c397adcc00851a36bacd6f.png

 

Here, the FBI states Cooper's chute was olive drab container and tan cotton harness. This description is consistent in FBI files and predates Cossey's initial description.

 

829393520_ScreenShot2022-03-05at5_28_05PM.png.68da1635341f14598b884b9179df6749.png

Further, Cossey explains the dummy chute, he cut it in half, sewed it together and no mention of daisy chaining. 

161418306_ScreenShot2022-03-05at5_36_26PM.png.04ae30f143dc68e59e210dd0c6eb698b.png

 

Cossey said he had the serial numbers in his records but he never produced them..

 

My conclusion is Cossey initially assumed the chute was his sage nylon/sage nylon NB6 chute then lied about it to cover up his error. For the chutes, Cossey was the go to for the FBI and to admit he was wrong would have undermined the case and completely discredited Cossey. There was never any corroboration for Cossey's description.

That means the FBI was looking for the wrong chute and potentially eliminated chutes found that may have been Cooper's.

 

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5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Cossey said he had the serial numbers in his records but he never produced them..

 

My conclusion is Cossey initially assumed the chute was his sage nylon/sage nylon NB6 chute then lied about it to cover up his error. For the chutes, Cossey was the go to for the FBI and to admit he was wrong would have undermined the case and completely discredited Cossey. There was never any corroboration for Cossey's description.

That means the FBI was looking for the wrong chute and potentially eliminated chutes found that may have been Cooper's.

 

Hayden has stated that the two parachutes he obtained from Cossey were identical, or at least close to it.

The parachute that was returned to Hayden does not have an NB-6 container, harness, or pilot chute and the canopy is to bulky to be a 26 foot canopy.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, I owned a totally genuine NB-6 rig and wore it when flying aircraft with cramped cockpits.

There is no reason to believe anything Cossey has said about an NB-6 rig, or any component of one, being involved in the Cooper hijacking.

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16 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Hayden has stated that the two parachutes he obtained from Cossey were identical, or at least close to it.

The parachute that was returned to Hayden does not have an NB-6 container, harness, or pilot chute and the canopy is to bulky to be a 26 foot canopy.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, I owned a totally genuine NB-6 rig and wore it when flying aircraft with cramped cockpits.

There is no reason to believe anything Cossey has said about an NB-6 rig, or any component of one, being involved in the Cooper hijacking.

Do you what a type A-3 soft top pilot chute is..

 

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Do you what a type A-3 soft top pilot chute is..

 

I am not familiar with the A-3 designation, but it would probably be a reference to a pilot chute that is just placed on top of the canopy when the container is closed.

The pilot chute used with the NB-6 container has one of the container's closing cones mounted on its top.  This cone becomes the third cone from the top when the container is closed.  This third cone fits through both container side flaps and is held in place by one of the ripcord pins.

The outline of the pilot chute in the Hayden backpack can be seen in the photographs and it plainly does not have a closing cone or anything to do with the closing cones. 

Edited by Robert99

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(edited)

Cooper probably ordered from a drink menu like this.. he had the option of a beer but picked Bourbon. What does that indicate about Cooper.

back in 1971 Bourbon was the #2 hard liquor drink..

This is the Northwest inflight drink menu.. several years earlier.

There are many Bourbons available and several soft drinks including 7up.. no straight soda

57-NWOdrinkmenu.thumb.jpg.1e79667f63f0376a25b5be370bcb6ddd.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK
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18 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Cooper probably ordered from a drink menu like this.. he had the option of a beer but picked Bourbon. What does that indicate about Cooper.

back in 1971 Bourbon was the #2 hard liquor drink..

This is the Northwest inflight drink menu.. several years earlier.

There are many Bourbons available and several soft drinks including 7up.. no straight soda

57-NWOdrinkmenu.thumb.jpg.1e79667f63f0376a25b5be370bcb6ddd.jpg

Didn't he pay with a 20 and tell her to keep the change? That's a hell of a tip.

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50 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Didn't he pay with a 20 and tell her to keep the change? That's a hell of a tip.

He paid with a twenty but Flo didn't have change and brought it to him later.

before the stews left the plane he offered all three a tip from his pocket... 

I find this hard to believe, other reports have Cooper offering Flo and Alice ransom money before they left.

To offer small tip money for three stews to split just sounds made up when he had already given ransom money to Tina which she claimed she returned because they weren't allowed tips.. then he later offered ransom money to the other two stews..

To offer tip money to be split three ways sounds like an embellishment by Tina to back up her excuse to return the ransom money..

According to Tina, she had already told him that company policy was to not accept tips. So, it just doesn't make sense any way you look at it.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

He paid with a twenty but Flo didn't have change and brought it to him later

 

 

 

 

I had read somewhere that he offered her the change as a tip and have always thought that to be the case. There's so much out there that's it's hard to separate the fact from the fiction.

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3 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I had read somewhere that he offered her the change as a tip and have always thought that to be the case. There's so much out there that's it's hard to separate the fact from the fiction.

Sort of, the claim is that he offered a tip from his pocket to all stews later..  Flo gave Cooper the change but he didn't tip at that time..  the whole thing doesn't make sense, somebody is lying or covering up something.

 

Cooper orders drink.

Flo gives him drink he pays with $20, she doesn't have change will bring after she serves other passengers

Flo gives change, no tip

Tina asks for and gets ransom money, returns it and says no tips allowed, company policy.

Cooper offers all stews tip money from his pocket. They split a few bucks during a hijacking? no, They reject, claim no tip policy.

Cooper offers Flo and Alice ransom money before they leave, they reject claim no tip policy.

 

IMO, the claim that Cooper offered tip money from his pocket to all stews is BS to embellish Cooper offering them ransom money rejected by the no tip policy.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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It seems very possible that the money Cooper handed to Tina is the same set that ended up at Tena Bar. There are a number of scenarios that make more sense than landing at Tena Bar or walking. Cooper could have put that money in a pocket of the coat and discarded the coat to look more like he was a hiker or threw it in the river to make it look like he died. 

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1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

It seems very possible that the money Cooper handed to Tina is the same set that ended up at Tena Bar. There are a number of scenarios that make more sense than landing at Tena Bar or walking. Cooper could have put that money in a pocket of the coat and discarded the coat to look more like he was a hiker or threw it in the river to make it look like he died. 

Why does it take 50 years!!! to ask Tina what he did with that bundle?  He either put it back in the bag or in his coat pocket - or he ate it! ? Even if he put it in his coat pocket, how does it wind up on a sandbar on the Columbia miles from where he probably landed? EU's solution is to reject the FBI flight path and say Cooper landed at Tina Bar ... which is a modified version of Tosaw's solution, which is a modified version of H's Washougal solution, which is a modified version of, which is another modified version of . . . maybe Cooper was at TBar where he was scheduled to rendezvous with a Russian submarine ? 

Edited by georger

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26 minutes ago, georger said:

Why does it take 50 years!!! to ask Tina what he did with that bundle?  He either put it back in the bag or in his coat pocket - or he ate it! ? Even if he put it in his coat pocket, how does it wind up on a sandbar on the Columbia miles from where he probably landed? EU's solution is to reject the FBI flight path and say Cooper landed at Tina Bar ... which is a modified version of Tosaw's solution, which is a modified version of H's Washougal solution, which is a modified version of, which is another modified version of . . . maybe Cooper was at TBar where he was scheduled to rendezvous with a Russian submarine ? 

Or, maybe she never gave it back...

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