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quade

DB Cooper

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16 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

This is maybe possible. But there are some people here and there who might object. The author, and the owner of the rights to the artwork, for example. Three people are involved in the book. I have the info on two of them and hope to have the third one soon. It is probably pointless. I could produce an exact copy with an even easier font to read, better paper, (same size, same book, just more pages) but I imagine some Cooperland folks would interfere. 

If I were to get involved with this book it would be first class or nothing. And no copyright violations. 

If Cooper folk want me to take such a project under my wing, I would like to hear serious support on it from those same people. It can be done quickly, but it is a lot of work and money is involved out of my own pocket. Plus I would have to make arrangements with the rights' owners. I'm sure I can do that, but I want to SEE SUPPORT if I take this project on. Otherwise I won't waste my time, effort, money, and simply be satisfied with the two copies of Ha Ha Ha I still own. 

I DO have a plan in mind that will benefit all three people involved in the original book, and they are looking at that plan as you read this. Two of them are, anyway. They are considering my request to know the name and current circumstances of the original author, and for rights to re-publish. (Okay...'current circumstances' means is he dead or alive for starters.)

 

Well I for one would be interested. I would hope others would look at it objectively and not interfere.

It seems at this point that the original book has become a collector's item. I'm guessing that the copies you have, wrapped and preserved, you would never actually read them or allow them to be read, as opening them and going through the pages would disturb their pristineness. I get that, but at that point they become worthless as an actual book.

I for one am not interested in having a collector copy. I'm curious about the content. So if a new paperback version were available, that one could read without worrying about it getting tattered, I'd be interested in that. I would guess that many others might be as well.

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27 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I'm not 'attacking the messenger,'  but listening to your opinions regarding KC is a waste of my time. Not like you were involved in the investigation or something. Not like you have seen all the files, which are very extensive.

You are simply stating your opinion about it. I don't have a problem with that. But since you are actively involved with investigating A DIFFERENT SUSPECT...I have to chuckle at your comments sometimes. 

Look at it this way. Even if you thought KC was Cooper, you wouldn't say so. You are busy with another suspect in the case, so any opinion from you regarding KC is...well...a bit slanted. You certainly have an agenda going. 

I don't have a problem with that either. But neither do I have to take your opinion seriously. 

You don't understand, it isn't my opinion.. Objectively the facts reject KC.

If the facts supported him I'd say so. They don't. It is that simple.

You will say anything to discredit the messenger.. by your own logic anything you say about any other suspect is invalid.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Nobody's trying to discredit either you, or your suspect Fred Hahneman. The reason is simple. You haven't provided anything yet to discredit. (*smiles*) Your opinion on KC's guilt or innocence is pretty worthless, because you are actively working on another suspect and you have stated you believe he best meets the evidentiary criteria. 

But your opinion on KC is basically worthless. I will explain with a simple example. Lets say there are two burger joints on the same street, across from each other. The owner of one of them keeps trying to tell passersby that the other one has crappy food. That is kind of the position you are in. 

 

That is a terrible example..

I don't own a suspect.. neither do you.

You created a narrative for KC that doesn't do what you claim. KC doesn't match the evidence and there is no evidence to suggest he was Cooper. Essentially the same problem Eric had with Sheridan... 

by an objective measure of the evidence KC was not Cooper.. 

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You've said the same thing regarding your opinion on KC more than a dozen times now. And you are investigating your OWN Cooper suspect. So no...I really don't care what you think regarding his guilt or innocence. But you do have a right to your opinion and you have given it. 

That was a very good example of your current position. The allegory of the two hamburger joints across the street from each other. I thought it made perfect sense. 

That is problem, it is a poor example. It only makes sense to you because it fulfills your confirmation bias.

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4 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

My opinion alone? Worthless. Absolutely. And no one should listen to it. 

My pointing out when people like Carl Laurin are outright forging documents and lying in order to forward a suspect? And if I present hard evidence on that? NOT worthless. 

And I pointed out the evidence as well,,, 

KC is not Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics or a swarthy/olive complexion,, KC does not have a full head of wavy/curly/marceled hair,, KC does not resemble the more accurate sketch B..  Cooper had thin lips with a protruding lower lip.. He continued to work for the airline.. because he wasn't Cooper.

If you list all the Cooper facts,, KC is a very poor match.. and is rejected by many.

 

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It makes sense because it is REALITY. When two different people are working on two different suspects on the same famous criminal case, one or both of them are going to pull out all the stops in efforts to discredit the other. In this case it is mostly you because I don't know enough about old Fred to give a serious opinion on his guilt or innocence. You haven't given people anything except a Latino reference on a wanted poster. 

You ARE a member of the Vortex, right? You know perfectly well this is the way things are. I have no opinion on the guilt or innocence of Fred Hahneman. Not yet. Mainly because like everyone else I am waiting to see what case you finally present against him. I don't think you are lying or anything like that. You just haven't presented anything so far. 

And by the way...I am definitely NOT Eric Ulis. B)

That is isn't true,, I have given out more than the info on a wanted poster you just weren't paying attention and ignored it as it suits your KC denial. You keep repeating that lie..  if you keep lying about that what else are you lying about and why do you need to lie?

And you still conflate a suspect with the advocate.. Advocates are irrelevant.. Look at the evidence, a suspect has to fit the evidence and objectively KC does not... my opinion doesn't reject KC, the evidence does. There are suspects I don't reject because there is not enough evidence to make a determination. There are probably thousands of people out there that could be a Cooper suspect that we are unaware of. 

There is enough known about KC to reject him. 

You aren't Ulis, he admitted his mistake based on an objective analysis of the facts.

You need to do the same.

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You are beginning to sound like a phonograph record with a really bad skip going. (*chuckles*)

YOU reject KC. Others do not. Like the many fans of AB of Seattle or the Blast book, for example. Which continues to move well in wholesale coming up on eleven years now since it's release. Trust me, I have no intention of letting those people down by making a statement I wouldn't mean anyway. You are wasting your time. Give it up. Concentrate on Hahneman, who so far you can't even place in the western half of the USA the week of the hijacking. Not that you couldn't. You just haven't done it yet. And why should I listen to some anonymous guy from Canada on this issue. As far as anyone knows, you could be just some really smart junior college kid. You are an unknown quantity without a history. Which means I don't have to accept you as some expert on Kenny Christiansen. You just don't like competition, and you are pissed I started naming the witnesses against Kenny, as well as the situation with a known FBI agent. It threatens your work on Hahneman. Quit worrying about me and start working on Hahneman. You haven't presented much of anything yet. Here's what Agent Fred Gutt at the Seattle FBI once said about Christiansen:

And that was BEFORE they got the full files and report on KC. 

For everyone else...I now know who wrote Ha Ha Ha. That's because the person holding the copyright finally contacted me. I was completely surprised when I heard who actually did the book. 

No...it wasn't the REAL D.B. Cooper. But then you knew that all along. 

Lunacy and delusional.

I didn't care about Sheridan as he was obviously not Cooper until Ulis stole my work claimed it was his and then called me a liar and troll. So, I pointed out the evidence.

I never ever cared about KC as the evidence clearly rejects him,, until Blevins started making false claims and lying. So, I point out the evidence.

KC is not a threat to anything or anybody... He is not Cooper, not because I think so but because the evidence shows it. 

Attacking me personally with lies and false claims doesn't change the evidence.

KC is insignificant. Reca level insignificance.

I would have never mentioned KC if you hadn't lied.. I don't like liars.

 

Unlike Blevins my agenda is the truth.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

YOU reject KC. Others do not. Like the many fans of AB of Seattle or the Blast book, for example. Which continues to move well in wholesale coming up on eleven years now since it's release.

Well, when they read a book that has things in it that are not true, such as Kenny dropping cash for a new house, it's understandable that they would believe Kenny could be Cooper. But, among those that have a high level of familiarity with the case, you find very few that consider Kenny to be a viable suspect. You and Greycop. That's about it.

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3 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't mind hearing some. You've gone on for days on end making blanket pronouncements on everything and everybody in the Cooper case. 

However you still haven't presented even a smidgen of evidence linking your favorite Cooper wannabe to the hijacking. You got angry when I started bringing up certain realities for which I thought people deserved an answer. For example, how is it they convicted him of air piracy and he spent the next dozen years in Federal prison...and yet the Feds keep chasing Cooper, spending millions along the way...without even hammering on him in the Visiting Room a few times a month? Or continuing to question his family, friends, co-workers, and the witnesses until they get a break that links him to the Cooper case? You just sort of ignore all that, or hint at (*conspiracy!*) The last refuge when you can't explain things on a factual, realistic level. 

Hey...Hahneman COULD be Cooper. No kidding. But you haven't really made that a convincing possibility yet. 

But brother, you sure have a lot to say regarding other suspects. B)

 

Wrong Blevins you weren't claiming realities, you were making distortions and lies.

That pisses me off, I hate liars. I don't care about KC, he wasn't Cooper.

You are just projecting.. Hahneman is irrelevant.

You are the one ignoring the evidence regarding KC.. 

 

Maybe you should actually read the files. But then you'd realize KC doesn't fit the evidence.

 

KC should be tossed into the dustbin...

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You will be better served by showing everyone what you DO have on Fred Hahneman and stop making excuses about it. If you aren't ready to drop the whole book on everyone, you should at least reveal a chapter or two. I mean...beyond just saying this or that. Or claiming this or that about him without showing any evidence. It will help your case tremendously. 

I don't need help with my case..  because I am not selling a suspect to others.

Do you understand that, I don't need to explain anything to anybody.

 

You are projecting your own motivations, you need to sell KC because he isn't Cooper.. 

and you failed.. KC does match the evidence.

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39 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I'm not selling anything. I turn down interviews. I refused money from History Channel and Comcast Sports Net. I said no to a crappy movie script and that caused me to lose a few thousand bucks a year. No big deal. I don't need money that bad. The book on KC is in wholesale...so nothing I say publicly will affect sales one way or another. Wholesale buyers don't read internet posts about books. They look at the Ingram catalog and make their decisions from that. 

It is what it is. You don't like what it is. Welcome to the Reality Hotel. 

No, Blevins your reality is a mess,,

I don't care if you sell KC, that is your choice. I judge suspects by the evidence not the advocate.

My point is that I choose not to sell a suspect so I do not need to share my research to defend myself.

It is not my responsibility to educate you or anyone.

Of course, you won't understand the difference, it is above a part time super secret agent pay grade.

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Tom Kaye Part 2

 

 

The takeaway is that the money went into the Columbia River in a Spring from 72-79.. 

Eric's burial/retrieval theory is flawed as he claimed the only Spring that the River reached the money was during either the '72 or '74 extreme flood events. This is false, those recorded floods reached about the 21 ft mark and the money was at about the 5.5-7.5 foot mark. That puts the money 12-15 feet underwater.. but the Columbia River reaches the money spot every year and the Spring is highest seasonal water flow. So, you don't need a record flood event to reach the money spot and it isn't restricted to the floods of 72 and 74. It could be any Spring from 72-79. So, Cooper would have had to retrieve money well under the water in 72, the theory is extreme speculation and is IMO borderline ridiculous. Cooper could have buried the money anywhere and he chose next to a River (damaging it) then returned 6 months later to dig it up 15 feet underwater,, silly stuff.

What does make sense is that the money went into the Columbia in the spring 72-79. While the money spot was underwater the money was pushed along what would then essentially be the bottom of the river to its spot.

Suction dredge doesn't seem to make sense. Never did really.

The question is, where was the money after the hijacking and how did it get into the River.

Another note.. A Sioux City Sarsaparilla Soda can was found with the money in the same layer.. that was not sold until 1974. It is not related to Cooper but may date the debris deposit.

I have several theories,, one is entirely new that would blow up the Cooper case for a while. I have been researching it but can't prove anything. I was going to post it but it is too much work to explain for now.

Another thing Tom and everyone still misses, is that the money went to Cooper in rubber banded bundles of packets, individual packets of 100 were rubber banded in groups. So, it probably arrived on TBAR as a single bundle. The money arrival is not constrained by three separate packets arriving together. For the money to arrive together as 3 separate packets they had to be separated from its rubber banded single bundle after Cooper got the money. Doesn't really make sense. The rubber band frags found attached to the money may have been holding the single bundle together.

The uniformly rounded ends of the bills suggest that the money tumbled as one bundle along the bottom before landing on TBAR. The Willamette bottom is gravel and the Columbia is sandy. One of my theories involves the Columbia and the other the Willamette.. none are suspect specific and both maintain the "FBI" flightpath and dropzone.

One other important consideration, if the money went into the River at least six months later (or more) and stayed intact until it reached TBAR that indicates human intervention. Since rubber bands begin to deteriorate outside within months that makes it unlikely the money landed somewhere and sat in nature until it got washed into the River.. the rubber bands would have deteriorated. So, there must have been some human intervention along the way.

Edited by FLYJACK

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I hope you don't hinge your decision on whether to republish Ha Ha Ha on whether you get feedback here. I think we already know that you won't. But I'd bet that they'd buy copies if it were available. Rather, I'd hope that you would consult with the other three parties involved and determine whether there would be enough demand to justify it. It sounds as if Fenn people would be at least as good if not a better market than Cooper people. Someone on another thread says that Amazon does a thing where they'll publish a book but not print it until people order copies. Print on demand. Maybe that would make it easier?

Interesting that you were surprised at who wrote it. I don't expect you to name them, but I'm kind of surprised that you were familiar with them. I kind of expected it to be some outlier that nobody was aware of.

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26 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

I hope you don't hinge your decision on whether to republish Ha Ha Ha on whether you get feedback here. I think we already know that you won't. But I'd bet that they'd buy copies if it were available. Rather, I'd hope that you would consult with the other three parties involved and determine whether there would be enough demand to justify it. It sounds as if Fenn people would be at least as good if not a better market than Cooper people. Someone on another thread says that Amazon does a thing where they'll publish a book but not print it until people order copies. Print on demand. Maybe that would make it easier?

Interesting that you were surprised at who wrote it. I don't expect you to name them, but I'm kind of surprised that you were familiar with them. I kind of expected it to be some outlier that nobody was aware of.

The irony is that the Fenn crowd are driving the book demand based on Fenn being Cooper and the author, but to print more copies the author who isn't Fenn or Cooper must agree..

The world serves up some really strange things..

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Kaye already said human intervention was involved. He said that years ago when he and his team first published their Citizen Sleuths website. Only he used the term 'human hands'. 

You guys always want to make the Tina Bar money so complicated.

I have a much simpler answer. It's just a THEORY. Part of it is based on the fact that I was living near Seattle before and after the hijacking. 

In the weeks and months prior to the Statute of Limitations coming up on Cooper, especially in the DAYS prior...there was mucho TV and newspaper speculation going on about what Cooper might do once that date came and went. Maybe he would show some of the money to media and go tell the Feds to screw themselves. Maybe he would participate in a movie as a consultant and get the big bucks afterward. Maybe...maybe. All everyone knew is that the news was full of ideas about it. 

Then the day comes. November 24, 1976. 

Then...the news tells everyone that the Portland FBI did an end-around move on Cooper and wangled themselves a John Doe warrant, which they managed to get past a friendly Federal judge by only going for the hijacker himself and not any possible accomplices.

Nice job circumventing the Constitution, I must say. 

Undoubtedly, Cooper heard about this action. Must have been a real bummer, a crushing disappointment. One minute you are planning a Freedom Party and waiting for the announcement on TV with a bourbon and soda in your hand....

And the next minute you hear that the FBI just dogged the hell out of you and that they will now be hunting you the rest of your life.

The question then becomes, What Do You DO? 

My theory is that sometime after that date, Cooper decided to try and throw off the FBI. Maybe make them think he was dead. But how do you do that? If you dump some money out in the woods near the landing zone, and it gets found, the FBI will do a thorough search of the area, and finding nothing else...conclude that Cooper either dropped the money or it is a deliberate plant. That would tell the FBI that he is still alive, and they will redouble their efforts to find him. 

No...that won't work. Plus someone finding money like that in good condition might just decide to keep it anyway. 

You COULD toss some of it into Lake Merwin. The FBI thought Cooper landed somewhere nearby to the lake. Nah...that won't work either. The money would just sink to the bottom and never be found. Might as well paint the word MONEY on a rock and toss it in for all the good that would do. 

The answer is to use the Columbia River. A big, heavy moving body of water that would damage the evidence but might not totally destroy it. Put the money into a bag or something and toss it into the Columbia. Do it at a spot where people don't visit much. Maybe just upstream from Tina Bar, for example. The money washes up nearby and is eventually buried by dredge spoils. Someone finds it, but it takes years. But it IS eventually discovered. But the money asks more questions that it actually answers. No one can figure it out. It is miles off the flight path. How the hell did it get there? Does this mean Cooper went into the Columbia and drowned, and this is the only remains of his crime?

The FBI thinks that is exactly what happened. They say so. They start scaling back the budget for the Cooper case. Cooper hears about this stuff on television, or reads it in the papers. He pumps his fist in the air. 

He knows he isn't still free and clear yet, but some of the heat has just come off. And as the following years pass, the trail grows even colder than before.   

You, like usual, fail to understand the point.. Kaye mentioned human intervention earlier because TBAR was 20 miles from the dropzone.

I am pointing out human intervention because of the new diatom evidence and delay in entering the River.

If the money was sitting out in nature for six months or more then went into the river the rubber bands would have been deteriorated before it entered. So, the delay between NORJAK and entering the river must have involved human intervention at some point.. that is a different argument than Tom had prior.

The idea that Cooper threw money into the Columbia with the expectation of it being found to throw off investigators is as looney as Eric' burial/retrieval theory.. If you throw a bundle into the Columbia the expectation is that it would not be found. If somebody threw it in the River it was to discard it. Your theory is ridiculous.

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10 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well...maybe the money just grew legs and WALKED that twenty miles from the flight path. We already know a natural delivery by water is fairly impossible. My theory isn't ridiculous. It simply takes into account that Cooper probably watched TV and read the damn papers...the scores of articles about him published for years, the endless announcements on television, even the damn party about him down in Ariel. Cooper wasn't a robot. Sometimes you have to put yourself into someone else's shoes to figure out what might motivate them to try something like I described. 

The big problem with the diatom theory isn't identifying the timing of the diatoms. That would only point you to a time frame when Cooper might have done as I described. If Kaye says springtime...then maybe Cooper dumped the money in the spring of 1977. You have to remember the Human Factor. It is YOUR expectation that the money would not be found. Maybe Cooper decided to take a chance it WOULD be found. 

And look what happened...somebody DID find it. B)

No Blevins, if somebody tossed a bundle of money into the Columbia River there is no reasonable expectation in the real world that it would be found. Your theory is pure looney tunes.

If it was tossed it was to dispose of it.

My point about the human intervention makes a money landing near the Columbia then washed in by natural means very unlikely. Many people argue this idea shifting the dropzone south, but if the money sat for at least six months in nature before naturally entering the River then the rubber bands would have deteriorated before it entered.

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5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It's a good video, but with comments turned off I'm not surprised Nicholas only has SIX subscribers and less than 20 views to the video.

No one, and I mean NO ONE refuses to watch a Youtube video because comments are turned off. Perhaps he should do like you do and allow comments, only to delete the ones that disagree with the narrative of the poster of the video. That is what you do....

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31 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Since you haven't seen the comments I deleted (if any, I only check for comments maybe once or twice a YEAR)...then you don't know my policy on deletion. It's actually pretty simple. I don't allow people to get personal on me. They do that, they are gone like yesterday. But I do allow comments. And if it were true that a no-comment policy didn't have an effect, Nicholas would have more than six subscribers and 33 views to Part Two. Hell, I got more than that when I posted up a three-second video:

Look...as far as YouTube goes, if you publish videos there and people see that comments aren't allowed...often they don't bother watching the video. Unless it is major, big time news or something. It's no big deal to me one way or another. That's you guys 'thing,' not mine.

It's kind of like that weird policy at the Cooper Forum. You guys post up links pointing people to this or that...and no one can see them except registered members. And you guys average around 20 active participants, at most, at any given time. Not exactly great SEO policy, but Shutter likes it I guess. Kind of shuts out the public though. 

One of the funniest examples was when Eric had to spell out the website for one of his conventions, in a weird sort of way, so EVERYONE would know where to find the site. No wonder so many videos destined for the Cooper Forum end up getting posted here as well. At least the public can see the links. 

Wrong. I've posted several comments on your videos and they were all deleted. Nothing personal, but in full disagreement of the KC narrative. Every single one not allowed. You have no leg to stand on here.

 

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Quote

Wrong. I've posted several comments on your videos and they were all deleted. Nothing personal, but in full disagreement of the KC narrative. Every single one not allowed. You have no leg to stand on here.

 

I've posted several times as well, under other peoples YouTube pages and they never seen the light of day. he's like a college campus shutting down anything they disagree with. then he has the "do as I say and not as I do" mentality. 

He continues to try and tell Eric what to do with his events, blasting no video taken. where's his video's or pictures from past events?  now, he has to exceed 220 people at his event since he made the claim of easily beating Eric's attendance with his upcoming event. he can't LIE and say he "already has the permit" now..

Fly is 100% correct about Kenny. the evidence is just not there. he has a bunch of people saying things. actually, it's hard to say what these people have said about Kenny since he speaks for every single person attached to Kenny. 

Lol, I've watched dozens of video's in the last week that have comments turned off. his video's were like that for a long time, then went to approval comments, haven't a clue what settings he has now. 

 

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

You, like usual, fail to understand the point.. Kaye mentioned human intervention earlier because TBAR was 20 miles from the dropzone.

I am pointing out human intervention because of the new diatom evidence and delay in entering the River.

If the money was sitting out in nature for six months or more then went into the river the rubber bands would have been deteriorated before it entered. So, the delay between NORJAK and entering the river must have involved human intervention at some point.. that is a different argument than Tom had prior.

The idea that Cooper threw money into the Columbia with the expectation of it being found to throw off investigators is as looney as Eric' burial/retrieval theory.. If you throw a bundle into the Columbia the expectation is that it would not be found. If somebody threw it in the River it was to discard it. Your theory is ridiculous.

If the FBI hadn't come knocking on Cooper's door by the time the Statute of Limitations expired there was no reason to expect that they would ever do so.

Throwing some money in the Columbia River or a hole on the beach and expecting it to be found is simply not realistic.   

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