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DB Cooper

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The problem with the Cooper case is that there is actually very little evidence. We have very few facts directly related to Cooper..  So, it is easy make a suspect fit some points..

Even the FBI claimed in 1976 that they could never get a prosecution without the co-operation of Cooper. The witness memories had faded and there are very few facts.

I have been putting together a list of Cooper facts and a profile to compare to a suspect and it is only about 70 points..   

Most of the high profile suspects fit very few of the facts/profile.

 

The only way to put a suspect on the plane is prints or DNA, both of those are uncertain/incomplete.

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 10/4/2021 at 12:34 PM, FLYJACK said:

Why do people push nonsense.. read the files..

FBI lab approximately $5800 on TBAR..  100 bills per packet, that is 3 packets with one missing a few.

There is nothing to support 2 packets,, 

The misinformation in this case is off the charts,

 

coopmoney5800.jpeg.8d58af51e4da04dfd1029708b2158c55.jpeg

billorder.jpeg.2b37e847c1bd91eef1561e9611db259a.jpeg

 

Nobody believes Snowmman on the TBAR bills because he is wrong..

The FBI files do indicate the lab got approximately $5800....  we don't have the report.

280 bills, they were in 100's, that is 3 packets one was short, either removed prior to deposit or eroded from the top.

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On 10/16/2021 at 6:22 PM, FLYJACK said:

Sioux City Sarsparilla can found in the same layer with the the TBAR money..

It started selling nationally July 1974.

 

This was dated May 1974.

 

scsars.jpeg.59c198c48bda8cd9a41730f11fb32f44.jpegsoiuxcitysars.jpeg.b8be580a1d4185c03f8e827828971792.jpeg

This is interesting,,, A Sioux City Sarsparilla can was found in the same layer as the money but wasn't produced until 1974..

Palmer was asked about the chards at 3' depth, he said that there is no conclusive evidence of money at depth and surmised that it was from the digging process.

sarsparillamoneydepth.jpeg.9030c35e4afc5899d8a017701e532e61.jpeg

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Or....you could do what Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward did during the Watergate investigation. They ran down witnesses, took good notes, and verified the witnesses' testimonies. That ALSO works. B)

They got lucky... had a tipster.

Bernstein went all in on the Trump Russia collusion hoax.. got it wrong due to bias..  he has become a parody. Woodward finally admitted there was no evidence. These guys have become political grifters..

not a good analog...

 

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

For the Cooper case, I have to disagree with your assessment. Not being able to write the ending to a crime story is very frustrating for audiences.

Bullshit. If Hollywood wants to make a movie about something, they don't need a real ending or for it to be "solved". We could talk all day long about historical events that Hollywood has re-done the ending to. I don't know why there has never been a serious Cooper movie made, but I promise you that it isn't because they don't know the ending to the story. That thought is ridiculous. 

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10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Most crimes are not solved by reviewing the existing files on that crime, although it happens occasionally. Most of the major crimes are solved by hitting the bricks and doing the work. And although Trump himself was able to dodge the collusion charges, there is evidence aplenty he had other people involved. Some of them were convicted for one thing or another due to their lies, etc. And Trump pardoned almost all of them. He takes the cake as the worst US President who has ever served, even worse than Andrew Johnson, the guy who took over after Lincoln was killed. 

This is pure gold... it perfectly exemplifies Blevins flawed thinking and his KC narrative.

Blevins evokes Bernstein as some sort of investigative standard.. but Bernstein (like Blevins) pushed the Russia collusion hoax with zero evidence, none..  many were duped by it due to a personal bias against Trump. The media pumped it for years, the intel community pushed it so it was accepted as fact.

Critical thinkers were skeptical as there was actually no evidence.

and we now know it was a hoax started by the Clinton machine and then advanced by partisans in the FBI/DOJ. It was actually an attempted coup of a sitting President. One of the biggest scandals in US history. No matter what you think of Trump that is some serious stuff..

But people like Blevins can't even recognize this, they are so invested in their own bias they subvert any critical thinking ability by discrediting contradictory facts and embellishing supporting information. Bernstein fell for it as did many others.. and now that it has been exposed the bias is so strong that people still believe the hoax.. it is a form of self denial. Even Woodward looked for two years and concluded there is no evidence.

This is exactly the problem with KC as a Cooper suspect, there is no evidence to support him as Cooper and the evidence eliminates him but Blevins personal bias prohibits him from acknowledging reality. It is a self imposed delusion. My experience with people like this is that there is no amount of reason, logic or evidence to convince them that their reality is wrong. 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

And Trump pardoned almost all of them. He takes the cake as the worst US President who has ever served, even worse than Andrew Johnson, the guy who took over after Lincoln was killed. 

I'm not going to get in a political back and forth so this is all I will say on the topic: The current president is well on his way to taking the crown of "Worst US President who has ever served", a crown that currently resides with Jimmy Carter. This guy is in way over his head and has been a disaster since day 1. So bad, that he may not even be nominated a second time. 

 

EDIT: When I say worst ever, I'm basically saying worst during my lifetime. I can't judge beyond that.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 

Did you call my premise bullshit because you really think it is...or just because I was the one who suggested that premise? ^_^

I just disagree with it regardless of who is saying it. Cooper doesn't get the attention that a lot of other major crimes get. My guess is that is probably why we haven't seen a major movie about it. Even a case like Zodiac has only 1 major movie done that I'm aware of, and just like Cooper that one is unsolved as well. And just as I'm sure a Cooper movie would, they took some liberties with the facts of that case.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I wouldn't name Jimmy Carter as the worst President ever. He's a Nobel Peace Prize winner who spent the rest of his life (until he couldn't use a hammer anymore) building houses for poor people and teaching Sunday School. Lousy with the economy, though. That's a given. But he definitely has character. 

Day before yesterday I predicted on Facebook that after the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict, that this would grant license to civilians to drag out their guns and hang out in neighborhoods in Kenosha, WS. Sure enough, I read just that in the news this morning. I fault the prosecutor for this situation, because he was never going to get a conviction on First Degree anything. He should have just gone for voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, which was more in line with what Rittenhouse actually did. I guess people want vigilante justice to come back. All well and good until someone in THEIR family, or one of THEIR friends becomes a victim of vigilantism somehow. Then suddenly it isn't so good anymore. 

I never said Carter wasn't a good dude. But his actions after he left office have no bearing on what kind of President he was. Great ex-president though, I will give him that.

Kyle Rittenhouse should have just stayed home. It was ill advised to go out there with a gun, any gun. But even doing that, does not mean that he gives up his right to self defense. There was no conviction to be had regardless of the charge. If the governor would have allowed the national guard to come in, then in all probability none of this would have happened. As it often does, partisan politics got in the way. Rittenhouse will most likely file and win a few lawsuits when all is said and done.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off if everyone walked around armed. 

 

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24 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Never could figure out why people who live in a country with laws and courts and cops propose the idea that everyone should pack a gun.

Because believe it or not, there are some folks out there that choose to not obey the laws. 

Personally, I don't even own a gun. So I'm probably the wrong person to be promoting the idea that everyone go heeled. I don't know that I actually like the idea, but as I said, sometimes I think we would be better off.

Rittenhouse will probably sue for defamation and win. By win, I mean he will get a settlement or most likely, settlements. See Nick Sandmann. But he may instead choose to just disappear and live his life without bringing any more attention to himself.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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On 11/13/2021 at 11:21 PM, FLYJACK said:

Obviously nobody knows of the bomb was real except Cooper,, but I believe it was likely real.

The reason it was dismissed as real was the colour.. The claim, all real dynamite was tan,, that was false. There was red dynamite like these above and they have very little printing and it was taped.. Cooper also warned the crew about the radio setting off the bomb,, might have been a ruse but I doubt it. If the bomb went off the radio transmissions could be blamed.

Further, Cooper was afraid of Sky Marshal's. I can't imagine somebody hijacking with a fake bomb having the confidence to face Sky Marshal's. He didn't know who he would have encountered to convince the bomb was real. If somebody thought it was fake he would have been in a very vulnerable position, probably shot. A real bomb would have given him the confidence.. but if the bomb wasn't real then he probably would have had a concealed weapon for backup.

So, I think it was likely real but if not then he had a backup weapon. Unlikely he only had a fake bomb, that is far too vulnerable. He only had to fool the stews but that wasn't a guarantee going into it.

If he had a fake bomb and somebody called him on it, he could be dead.

I used to work for an explosives company for a short period of time back in the mid 90's. I remember the dynamite that we used was tan, but I want to say that some of it was pink in color as well. The sticks were also short and stubby as opposed to the long skinny sticks we often see. I'd say about 6" in length and probably a couple of inches or so in diameter. As with color, probably many different options in size.

It's interesting that you think the bomb was real as most people believe it was fake. I think most people want to think it was fake because it kind of changes the way we have to view Cooper if the bomb was real. If it's fake, then he has no real intention of blowing the plane up. But, if it's real, then who knows how things would have played out if the airline decided not to meet his demands. I've also wondered if he had a backup plan (gun). No way to know, of course.

The reason I've always thought the bomb to be fake was that I didn't figure that he would bail out of the plane with a real bomb on his person. Not a great reason, I know.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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2 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I used to work for an explosives company for a short period of time back in the mid 90's. I remember the dynamite that we used was tan, but I want to say that some of it was pink in color as well. The sticks were also short and stubby as opposed to the long skinny sticks we often see. I'd say about 6" in length and probably a couple of inches or so in diameter. As with color, probably many different options in size.

It's interesting that you think the bomb was real as most people believe it was fake. I think most people want to think it was fake because it kind of changes the way we have to view Cooper if the bomb was real. If it's fake, then he has no real intention of blowing the plane up. But, if it's real, then who knows how things would have played out if the airline decided not to meet his demands. I've also wondered if he had a backup plan (gun). No way to know, of course.

The reason I've always thought the bomb to be fake was that I didn't figure that he would bail out of the plane with a real bomb on his person. Not a great reason, I know.

Obviously, we don't know if the bomb was real.. I took the other side of the argument to challenge the dominant thinking. He did mention the radio possibly setting it off, that may have been a ruse, but maybe not. But, I try to imagine myself in that situation with only a fake bomb, that would put the hijacker in a vulnerable position with sky marshals potentially on board. Cooper was fortunate only the stews saw the bomb, but that was not guaranteed. If somebody called his bluff, he was likely dead.

So, I think the bomb was real or if it was fake he must have had a backup weapon even if just for confidence.. 

Imagine robbing a bank with a fake gun... crazy.

In SKYJACK Gray claimed that Cooper said to Tina "They're not gonna take me alive.." 

I haven't found that anywhere, Gray may have just made it up,, does anybody have a source for it.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Attendance on Saturday was good. The audience on Sunday was a little less. I counted over 100 people on Sunday when I got there, and that was after the bigfoot people left. (Sunday was always going to be a challenge, competing with the NFL is tough)

It was a two day event with 6 hours of programming each day, people were coming and going. Tom Kaye's speech and Bill Mitchell's interview had the highest attendance. 

Edited by Andrade1812

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Cooper Con has already happened?  Just getting  back to a Cooper forum after years away.  Could not have attended anyway, I live in eastern Washington now.  Sounds like a fairly successful symposium...or not?  What is your assessment?  Meyer

Edited by MeyerLouie

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It is such a shame that the DBC party at Ariel is pretty much just a memory now.  I went several times over the years.  Feeling kind of empty knowing that Dona and Bryan are not around anymore to put on the event.  It truly was a great time, I loved it. Met some great, interesting people every time.  When Josh Gates put on a party in Ariel the night  before the Expedition Unknown shoot, it was great.  You were there, Robert, you made one mean hotdog at the BBQ.  The good ol' days..... Meyer

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By midafternoon, lots of people were gone. The last two speaker segments were sparsely attended. I would wager that was when the picture was taken.

And it makes sense people started to leave, even I was exhausted at that point. A one day event might have been better.

I was told there were 200 tickets sold with 20 speaker passes, and that the theatre peaked at 160 people in the seats on Saturday. There were maybe 40 people left for the final speaker on Sunday. If I had known it was going to be a topic of debate, I would have snapped a picture of the audience.

Edited by Andrade1812

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28 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

By midafternoon, lots of people were gone. The last two speaker segments were sparsely attended. I would wager that was when the picture was taken.

And it makes sense people started to leave, even I was exhausted at that point. A one day event might have been better.

I was told there were 200 tickets sold with 20 speaker passes, and that the theatre peaked at 160 people in the seats on Saturday. There were maybe 40 people left for the final speaker on Sunday. If I had known it was going to be a topic of debate, I would have snapped a picture of the audience.

Were there any new revelations??

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23 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Tom's presentation on the diatoms was incredible. Hopefully it was taped and will be available soon. Tom is now looking for a source of the salt found on the tie, he believes that will be the key.

Yup, I just sent him some info on sodium chloride tablets.. used for dehydration in Vietnam and elsewhere.

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19 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Bill Mitchell said Cooper looked older than any of the sketches, and he definitely affirmed the "turkey gobble" of skin under Cooper's chin.

Cliff Ammerman affirmed the flight path and suggestes V23 was the only route 305 could have taken given Cooper's flight configuration.

Does Bill think after all these years he could identify Cooper?

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