DB Cooper

[Divalent 89]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The Cooper tie was loaded with sodium chloride,,,  not table salt.

Table salt is (~98%) sodium chloride.

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

So how does that end up on his tie? Clearly, if Cooper was in Vietnam, I doubt he was wearing a tie. Does the presence of  Sodium Chloride line up with anything else on the tie? 

Cooper was 45-50,, probably in WW2 and/or Korea.. not a regular soldier, he would have been a higher rank, specialist or a contractor at that age. They could have worn ties, clipons.

The tie was about 6 years old when left on the plane, the particles probably accumulated from many environments over that time. People keep trying to make them fit one event/environement. That is unlikely.

Edited November 8, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, Divalent said:

Table salt is (~98%) sodium chloride.

That was just what Tom Kaye said.. it was sodium chloride but not regular table salt.

My understanding is sodium chloride tablets are different.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

15 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

That was just what Tom Kaye said.. it was sodium chloride but not regular table salt.

My understanding is sodium chloride tablets are different.

When I started with the company that I am with now, one of the first places that I had to go was a salt mine in Cleveland Ohio. This mine is around 1800 feet underneath Lake Erie. The salt that comes out of there is 98% Sodium Chloride, but if I remember correctly is not food quality salt. It's been a while since I was there and I hope I never have to go back. Not a fun elevator ride down, and the whole time down there you never quit thinking about the fact that you are underneath Lake Erie.

Coincidentally, I think Cleveland is also home to one of the two companies that Tom Kaye said were the best possible sources for some of the materials on the tie. Can't recall the name of that company.

[Coopericane 44]

1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

When I started with the company that I am with now, one of the first places that I had to go was a salt mine in Cleveland Ohio. This mine is around 1800 feet underneath Lake Erie. The salt that comes out of there is 98% Sodium Chloride, but if I remember correctly is not food quality salt. It's been a while since I was there and I hope I never have to go back. Not a fun elevator ride down, and the whole time down there you never quit thinking about the fact that you are underneath Lake Erie.

Coincidentally, I think Cleveland is also home to one of the two companies that Tom Kaye said were the best possible sources for some of the materials on the tie. Can't recall the name of that company.

Tektronix or Teledyne?

[ParrotheadVol 70]

6 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Tektronix or Teledyne?

It wasn't Tektronix but the other one don't sound right either.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

34 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Tektronix or Teledyne?

I stand corrected. The company was RMI and it was in Ashtabula Ohio, which is 60 Miles away from Cleveland.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

On 11/4/2021 at 10:47 AM, FLYJACK said:

Cooper's grudge...

 

So what is the grudge? 

[FLYJACK 654]

8 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

So what is the grudge? 

US Government Corruption in Vietnam and elsewhere..

[georger 197]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

US Government Corruption in Vietnam and elsewhere..

(1) In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, he said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

 

(2) She asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack and he laughed and said “It’s not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it’s just because I have a grudge”. He paused and said ‘that the flight suited his time, place, and plans.’

 

How you skip from that to a grudge against US Government Corruption in Vietnam and elsewhere.." is beyond me. Maybe his grudge was against camels or birch bark or Chevrolets ?  Should we ask Dr Edwards to do a probability analysis ?

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Brother, you just lost your Critique Blevins privileges for at least a week. If Cooper was 45-50 at the time of the crime, he would be 19-24 during World War Two. At the most. 

Korea, he would be a bit older. But then...service in Korea wouldn't match your suspect, would it? Hahneman, as far as I know, only served in WW2. And he wasn't a paratrooper. He was a radar tech? 

And I have no idea where you get the idea a clip on tie worn 26-30 years PRIOR to the Cooper hijacking would have ended up being worn AT the hijacking. I think you have a time perception problem, as a sci fi writer might call it. 

And to top it off....a date was established long ago regarding the age of the JC Penney tie anyway. And it wasn't WW2-era or Korea, either. It was early-to-mid 1960's. 

From the movie Apollo 13:

 

Ouch,,, a big misfire from you.. and what a completely nutty post. Typical Blevins.

It has to be unwound completely to straighten it out.

Cooper was 45-50 for NORJAK, right, that puts him at prime age for WW2. Regardless, it is most likely Cooper was in Vietnam, but at that age he probably wasn't a low level soldier.

 

Hahneman was in WW2 on an aircrew, he was also in Korea and Vietnam. He was a radar/communications tech and claimed paratrooper experience in Vietnam but I have not been able to confirm that.

I was the one who dated the tie at around 1965, I never said the the tie dated to WW2 or Korea.. that is ridiculous.

My point was that somebody of Cooper's age in Vietnam wouldn't be a low level soldier but would have advanced to the higher ranks or as a specialist, perhaps a contractor. They could have worn cheap clipon ties 1965-1971.. I agree with Parrot, the young soldiers wouldn't be wearing ties.

 

So, your critique of my comments is shear lunacy, it really shows a complete lack of comprehension on your part. You are trying to ridicule me and have completely misunderstood and distorted my comment..

Do you actually believe what you wrote?

You are just not a serious person.

Edited November 9, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

9 hours ago, georger said:

(1) In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, he said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

 

(2) She asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack and he laughed and said “It’s not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it’s just because I have a grudge”. He paused and said ‘that the flight suited his time, place, and plans.’

 

How you skip from that to a grudge against US Government Corruption in Vietnam and elsewhere.." is beyond me. Maybe his grudge was against camels or birch bark or Chevrolets ?  Should we ask Dr Edwards to do a probability analysis ?

 

True, I didn't explain it.

Cooper was probably in Vietnam and a very common "grudge" for retuning men was disillusionment with the war..  Nixon announced the wind down in 1969.. although it took five years it began before NORJAK.

I also have other pieces evidence that supports this idea but since it can't be proven I don't feel like sharing the theory.. and being accused of crazy things.

[FLYJACK 654]

7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 

How about this Flyjack? Be there in July, or be square.  I figure you are either Canadian, or pretty close to it somewhere. Not asking, just an educated guess. If so, you should know all about camping. And July is easy for such things.

 

I am Canadian, I camped lots when I was younger, I hate it now.

What you are doing isn't camping, it is a backyard party in the woods..

You are trying to buy friends, up to you but that isn't Cooper related and doesn't belong here.

If you are going to flood this forum with this spam for the next 8 months, I will report you and recommend everyone block you.

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You've posted the same FBI docs more than once. I never said you were a spammer. Advertising a party regarding DB Cooper and other folks is perfectly legit. Too bad on the part where you no longer enjoy the great outdoors. No one is trying to 'buy friends'. I have plenty of friends already. I just don't talk about them or post their pictures because I already know certain folks in Cooperland jump all over that, say nasty things about them (and others), and sometimes try to hunt them down on the internet for MORE insults. They did it with Greg the Techie Guy, Gayla Prociv, even my cat occasionally. (*laughs*) Been there, done that. 

You ARE right when you say it is a party in the woods. I'd return to the traditional yearly gathering out in the middle of nowhere at the Ariel Store, but I don't own the store. Otherwise we would do it there. 

On a matter of note, I have done several road trips to British Columbia, camping at Provincial Parks where sometimes I was the only camper. LOL ain't too many people up there once you get away from the city. Sometimes for a couple of weeks at a time. It is most beautiful once you get far outside Vancouver and Victoria.

And I never met a Canuck I didn't like. That's the truth.  You should show up with us in July. 

I blocked you last year when you started your endless event spamming..

Many of us have discussed this, and we will report you en mass and block you if you do like last year.

A mention here and there isn't a big deal but flooding the forum with lengthy and endless updates for your event for months is spam and this is not the place for it. I already want to block you again.

You aren't adding anything to the Cooper case discussion and using this place as your personal facebook page is disrespectful.

Edited November 9, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Go ahead and block my posts if you wish. You are just pissed off I called you out about Hahneman. Everybody knows that. You keep telling me you've eliminated suspects according to the evidence, without providing a shred of evidence on your own. That is fairly arrogant, and at least one or two other posters to this thread have agreed that you SHOULD. You keep making uninformed or ignorant opinions on other suspects...while dodging requests for any kind of evidence on your own, no matter how small that evidence happens to be. 

This is not my Facebook page. That was an announcement about an upcoming Cooper/UFO fan event next July. If I don't speak of it, the emails just come to me asking about it anyway.

If you have gathered a group here as you claim and are asking them to block my posts, or to report me, I have no problem with that. 95% of the people who actually read this thread are not posting to it. They just read it. Everyone, including you, does what they think they must. So go for it. 

Hahneman is irrelevant, I blocked you for the same thing last year. Your arguments are a rats nest of nonsense, what I don't like is your lies and complete distortion of my posts. You have no self awareness.

You just don't contribute anything worthwhile.. that isn't a requirement here but you cross the line with your event spam. Go have your party in the woods, we don't want to hear about the model of generator you will use endlessly for months.

 

Ok, don't say you weren't warned..

[FLYJACK 654]

15 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Saying that the Feds would have had ample opportunity to investigate Hahneman for the Cooper case, since they had him in custody for a dozen years...is not a rat's next of nonsense. It is reality. 

Saying that if the Feds had the slightest suspicion that Hahneman might actually BE Cooper, since Hahneman pulled off a similar hijacking to Cooper's...and did this only a few months AFTER Cooper...that the Feds would have checked him out at length...is not a rat's next of nonsense. It is reality. 

Pointing out that Hahneman gets little to no mention in Cooper files...tells me that the Feds probably figured out somehow early on that Hahneman was NOT Cooper. Either they were able to establish an alibi for him, (at work, perhaps, using witness testimony and work records) or just establishing he was not in the Northwest on 11/24/1971...is not a rat's nest of nonsense. It is a very real possibility based on what we have seen so far in the Cooper files. As far as the Hahneman investigatory files, those have not been made public. 

If you want to know for sure one way or another on Hahneman, your only real chance to do that would be to FOIA the Hahneman files held by the FBI and take a look at them. 

Until then, you are merely engaging in speculation and trying to connect the dots using a witness-based sketch and the fact that some witnesses may have said Cooper had Latin-type features. The feature link narrows it down to maybe ten million people, perhaps more. 

End result: You have no real evidence yet. But you still like to push the idea of Hahneman, even without it. 

Liar.

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Really? Which parts are a lie? It's not like I was talking about you personally. I was pointing out very likely situations on what the FBI might do if they were faced with another copycat Cooper-type hijacking. Is that a lie?

I also pointed out you have presented zip for evidence on Hahneman to date, although you come after other suspects quite a bit. Is that a lie?

I have pointed out that the Feds had Hahneman on ice down in Atlanta Federal Penitentiary for a dozen years while they were still beating the bushes and turning over rocks looking for Cooper. And that so far you have not been able to make the slightest connection between Hahneman and DB Cooper...except for latching onto a modest 'Latin type features' comment on a wanted poster. Is THAT a lie?

I pointed out that your best, and probably only shot to the truth is to do an FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request for the Hahneman investigatory files. They will almost certainly determine why the Feds didn't come after him for the Cooper case. Is that a lie? 

You mean if they were faced with a copycat like McCoy thoroughly investigated him and posted lots of info naming him in the FBI files, the guy you think might be Cooper but not Hahneman.

The FBI looked at KC and McCoy and according to your argument they would have been eliminated, but you think they could be Cooper. Just a bit inconsistent..

and ironically, the actual evidence eliminates them and not Hahneman. You have your logic back asswards.

I already told you I have FBI documents. You have said many times I need FBI docs even after I told you I have them. You just forgot, right. So, you just make up stuff. How many times do you have to be told something before it penetrates.. my guess is there is no number high enough..

So, the fact that I have FBI docs makes your entire comment baseless according to your own statement. 

GET THIS..  I HAVE THE RECEIPTS

 

You are completely incapable of reason and make up complete nonsense because you can't defend KC. You can't even defend your own flawed argument, you just ignore it. 

Realistically, Hahneman has nothing to with KC.

The case evidence eliminates KC.. you just won't accept it. KC was not Cooper, everybody with a good understanding of the case knows there is no real evidence for KC and the evidence actually eliminates him.

Kenneth Christiansen was not DB Cooper, he was not Latin/Mexican in appearance and features and he was not olive/swarthy, he did not have a full wavy/curly/marceled head of hair. There is no real evidence to support Kenneth Christiansen as DB Cooper.

DO NOT waste your time on Kenneth Christiansen.

 

Let's summarize yet again... 

These facts have already been stated but I can copy and paste when you ignore them in your next posts. (Nov 9, 2021)

 

I stated that the FBI looked at Hahneman, the crew even claimed he was Cooper. FACT

I stated that I found a gross error by the FBI that if believed would eliminate Hahneman. FACT

I stated that he had a very high level connection intervening on his behalf. FACT

I stated that Howard E Hunt was questioned about Hahneman's involvement in the CIA's Guatemalan coup. FACT

I stated he was not a copycat, a US Official said he had planned his hijacking for year. FACT

I have much more than newspaper clipping and a sketch including FBI docs and other stuff. FACT

I stated that Haheman's NAME was redacted in FBI docs whereas other dead suspects were not. FACT

I have NOT presented the case and don't think any body else should accept Hahneman as Cooper. FACT

I have not found any evidence that eliminates Hahneman. FACT

The FBI stated that Sketch B is the most accurate. FACT

The evidence eliminates Kenneth Christiansen.. KC is not Cooper. FACT

Edited November 10, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You don't qualify, or provide a reference, to many of your statements regarding Hahneman. 

The evidence doesn't eliminate Kenny Christiansen. You would not believe what we have on the guy, some of which has not been publicly released to date. Am I sure he was Cooper beyond a reasonable doubt? Not really. But there is plenty of evidence against him and virtual boatload of witness testimony. Or like Decoded cast member Buddy Levy said:

"He's either DB Cooper...or it's the biggest set of coincidences in crime history..."

Levy is a full professor of English at Washington State University, and the author of a string of best-selling historical books. He's hard to fool.

I have not found any evidence that eliminates Hahneman either. But then I have not found any evidence that eliminates Bing Crosby from the Cooper hijacking, either. 

Crediting 'a US Official' on a major statement that Hahneman planned the hijacking for a year is not evidence. At least when Troy Bentz came forward with his two friends and blew the whistle on FBI agent John Jarvis...they gave full details and names on what happened that day. 

You have absolutely zip except a bunch of uncredited, empty claims. You're the one who keeps lashing out. You bring up Kenny Christiansen constantly, even though he is not the subject of my questions. I was talking about Hahneman, not KC. You are also very defensive, even threatening to gather some unknown group to make mass complaints to the admins here at DZ about me. The truth is that you just don't like being called out, especially when you can't provide. 

Dr. Eric Berne would call that, 'transference'. It's a common psychological ploy, a game people play. You are playing it now. 

But, I have not made the case for Hahneman, see my list. So, you don't know what I have but keep falsely claiming you do know. It is a fact that you do not know what I have, right.

Those are not empty claims, they are facts, you can go check them out all you want. Are you claiming any of them are false?

I was not selling Hahneman, I was only pointing out the Cooper case evidence that happens to eliminate KC. Not because it eliminates him but because they are the facts of the case. They also eliminate most other suspects.

You now say you don't have evidence to eliminate Hahneman or Bing Crosby. Crosby would be eliminated by the case evidence.... fair hair, blue eyes, not olive/swarthy or Latin. Then you said Hahneman would have been eliminated by the FBI, not McCoy. You don't know that, you have nothing but an assumption. Never ever use an assumption to eliminate. Use facts.

I am not defensive, it is very frustrating dealing with you. You consistently ignore my statements and run with false claims over and over and over, like the FBI documents I told you I had. I prefer information to be accurate. It is a waste of time to have to correct your misinformation over and over.

If you don't think Hahneman is Cooper with no evidence that is fine, but don't spread misinformation.

You have made the case for Kenneth Christiansen, there is nothing there and the evidence easily eliminates him.

You can make the case again but I am not interested in KC, maybe others are but the Cooper case evidence eliminates him. He is a waste of time. I understand you have to defend him but he isn't Cooper. You know it.

 

If you spam the forum with your event stuff many of us will report you. That has nothing to do with Hahneman. If you stick to Cooper stuff we won't. No games. I am not into getting people banned but that stuff doesn't belong here.

Edited November 10, 2021 by FLYJACK

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

Actually....it DOES belong here. Two people that have previously posted to this forum attended the last event

Robert, why don't you mention this on the UFO page? the last event posted on the UFO Facebook page is listed as the "UFO Skywatch party" and nothing about Cooper. here you name it the UFO/DB Cooper skywatch and party? 

So, how does it belong here and yet you fail to mention Cooper on the main UFO page? If it's related to the event then we should be able to discuss Cooper on the UFO page, right. can I post about Darren's podcast, or CooperCon on that page, it's relevant, no? 

Quote

Darren Schaefer posts up about every new episode he releases, but really nothing else. It is an attempt to get downloads of his podcast. I don't have a problem with that. Do you think he should be banned as well?

It's surrounds the main topic, which is DB Cooper. he never slides off topic nor does he post the samething over and over, page after page spamming the podcast. 

[FLYJACK 654]

7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Actually....it DOES belong here. Two people that have previously posted to this forum attended the last event. 

There are notices posted here regarding the upcoming DB Cooper Con happening in Vancouver. Are you going to say that isn't allowed either?

Darren Schaefer posts up about every new episode he releases, but really nothing else. It is an attempt to get downloads of his podcast. I don't have a problem with that. Do you think he should be banned as well?

There are currently no other Cooper events scheduled (except ours) between the end of November and November 2022. We are the only one going during that time, and you may not be interested in that, but others are. 

Although it is a party of sorts, and people do crack a beer or three, the usual program at night at these events is sitting around a propane campfire (next year anyway) discussing Cooper issues, as well as UFO's, possible alien abductions, and Sasquatch. Not to say I believe in those last two or three issues, but my job is to provide the means and the motivation that encourage people to attend and have fun doing these things. 

And...this costs me a fair amount each year out of my own pocket. And...it costs nothing to attend. 

Explain to me how this is not relevant to a Cooper thread, and serves no positive purpose. At least SOMEONE is trying to keep the Cooper public thing alive. The Ariel Store party will never happen again, and after the 50th anniversary of the hijacking comes and goes, and Cooper Con is over...public interest in the case will start to wane. Part of my job is to try and stop that, and encourage people to keep exploring the case, to keep being fans of Cooper. What the heck? Guys like Bruce Smith and a few people at the DB Cooper Forum are simply chasing people away. 

We will agree to disagree on the KC thing. He is a polarizing suspect indeed. Either people are absolutely certain he was Cooper, or they are dead set against the idea. There seems to be no middle ground with him. So I get your kind of response about him all the time, but on the other hand I also get a lot of encouragement that Skipp and I were right about him all along. So it's six of one, a half dozen of the other. 

I was not making up stories when I told you that the previous admin at DZ closed the Cooper thread not because of me (as some people claim) but because they were tired of dealing with the complaints. I got this straight from the source. 

You keep making blanket statements regarding the guilt, or lack of it, of KC and the Geestman couple. Mostly based on rather weak witness statements and little evidentiary material. On the other hand, you have not tried to wade through a highboy dresser and two big file cabinets chock full of what we gathered about all these folks over the years. It is a lot. You do not know what we have, (at least a portion of it) either. 

So I will lay off you a bit regarding Hahneman and simply wait for you to present something on him besides the reference in the wanted poster. And we will see what happens from there. 

You think Darren's COOPER VORTEX interviews are NOT Cooper related, and you wonder why nobody takes you seriously. 

Your persistently evolving event posts are spam.. 90% of what you post is irrelevant to the Cooper case. You've stated that you are done with the case..

I wasn't here when DZ got closed. I left for a few years when my father died.

We don't agree to disagree, KC is only polarizing in your mind, there is no evidence for him and the evidence eliminates him.. case closed on Kenneth Christiansen. Even Lyle initially told the FBI he had no proof of anything. KC only got started as a suspect because Lyle claimed he resembled the description, like the POSTER.. then the KC narrative got backfilled with speculation and conjecture.. there is nothing there,, nothing. A complete waste of time.

We now know you think KC, McCoy and Bing Crosby could be Cooper.. All can be eliminated by the evidence. Perhaps UFOs and Bigfoot are better suited for you.

If you have evidence, not assumptions that eliminate Hahneman then do let me know.. 

 

You can question Hahneman all you want here. There is a difference between a healthy skepticism and spreading misinformation. See my FACT list for reference. 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

On 8/19/2021 at 7:42 AM, FLYJACK said:

I found a video clip of the sled test plane with aft stairs partially down

 

 

Video....  plane at 43 seconds..

 

Here is a brief video clip of the sled test... nobody on the stairs a this point.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

 A wood box is a wood box. Any two random wood boxes are probably going to have SOME similarities. I've never seen either of these two wooden boxes and I can tell you one similarity they had in common: At the time of their discovery, neither one contained any of the Cooper ransom.

The 302's show that Northwest employees were looked at. So, you can keep posting that RH quote all you want, but it's wrong.

Edited November 11, 2021 by ParrotheadVol

[mrshutter45 21]

The Facebook page for SUFON. you post the events withholding anything about Cooper or including Cooper in the title of the event. yes, it's posted to some degree on your website. 

Event tittle on the DZ
UFO/DB Cooper Skywatch Party

Event tittle on SUFON Facebook page
Skywatch UFO party

 If you actually told SUFON the events include Cooper, you need to post it on that page just as you post it here. it appears you are only posting the tittle to make the event on topic with the DZ. 

November 8th you post again on SUFON Facebook without mentioning Cooper..

"Sue Rapp and I are considering moving next July's UFO Skywatch Party from Darland Mountain west of Yakima"

Lets face it, the event is not related to Cooper in anyway and doesn't really belong on any Cooper page. doesn't matter if a Cooper fan shows up. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by mrshutter45

[FLYJACK 654]

Blevins, neither you nor KC is a threat to Hahneman..

You are projecting.. your own fears.

The only threats to any suspect are the facts of the case.

The hard part for this case is that there are a limited number of facts.

Kenneth Christiansen is eliminated by the case facts..

Sketch A is not accurate, Sketch B is the most accurate according to the FBI.. KC does not resemble B.

KC was not Latin/Mexican in appearance or features, he did not have olive/swarthy complexion, he did not have normal hair wavy/curly/marceled. His lips don't look to be thin with a protruding lower lip. Also, there is no evidence other than aged opinions.

KC was investigated in 2004 including contacting NWA for personnel records. Note, he is named in the files.. because he was dead.

 

[mrshutter45 21]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah? Let me know when you see an entry in the FBI Cooper files saying they questioned KC because he was a former US Army paratrooper in WW2. And how do you explain Himmelsbach's statements to Geoff Gray that they never looked at the airline employees? I didn't make this stuff up. It's in Gray's book, from his interview with Himmelsbach. 

I showed you several times a 302 discussing checking NWO employee's..

Edited November 11, 2021 by mrshutter45