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23 hours ago, Para-DZ said:

Chaucer- but you are being argumentative. That’s what you do. Do you think people can’t figure that out by reading your posts on here and the DB Cooper Forum? 

No, I am simply respectfully disagreeing with someone’s conclusions. My beliefs and theories on this case have been very consistent throughout. If I was being “argumentative”, then I would argue with everyone about everything. That’s not the case. 

You clearly have a personal issue with me. Whatever...

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On 6/22/2021 at 12:40 PM, FLYJACK said:

Of course it is imprecise... that isn't even debatable.

grayoscillations.jpeg.e87a229a42a849286775166bd6da3322.jpeg.da685353af91bf5199cbf79118581ee1.jpeg

 

The "identical" results of the sled test don't support your claim... 

The statements of the crew don't support your claim...

Your claim is conjecture. Nothing wrong with conjecture but that is what it is.

 

Is it possible the money landed on the banks of the Columbia, sure anything is "possible" but it is unlikely and requires a rejection of evidence that Cooper did. It is even possible dropped money could have fallen off the stairs after Cooper jumped,,, there is no evidence to support the claim that Cooper landed in the Columbia or on its banks.

All of this is conjecture. If any of us had proof of our claims, we would be on a book tour and appearing on Good Morning America rather than posting online.

My theory doesn’t require a rejection of evidence. Rather, the evidence suggests Cooper jumped later than 8:12. The money find on Tena Bar suggest the money ended up in the Columbia at some point. Kaye’s diatom research suggests it ended up there in spring time which is flood season. Taking all of those things into account, I theorize that Cooper and/or the money ended up near the north bank of the Columbia and several months later was transported via flood waters to Tena Bar - likely using river debris such as a brand or log as the vehicle. 

This theory accounts for all of the known evidence without rejecting any. 

Can I PROVE this? Of course not. Am I trying to? Of course. But that’s the story with everyone else in the Vortex too. 

 

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14 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yes, it WAS reported. By Bill Rataczak. He said something on the radio when this happened. It is in the files. I don't know the exact words he used, but it went something like this:  "I think our friend has taken leave of us..."

Someone will know the exact words and source, but this information has been available for quite a while. 

There is a second source, and that was Rataczak's interview with Skipp Porteous. The question from Porteous was whether the flight crew knew when Cooper jumped, and where he may have landed:

(My highlighting of the final sentence.)

Or as Rataczak said later in the interview:

 

His statement is not in any of the official documentation such as the 302 or transcripts. It’s anecdotal. Moreover, if that statement WAS made, we don’t know WHEN it was made. There’s no time stamp attached to it, and that is the key. 

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Chaucer said:

All of this is conjecture. If any of us had proof of our claims, we would be on a book tour and appearing on Good Morning America rather than posting online.

My theory doesn’t require a rejection of evidence. Rather, the evidence suggests Cooper jumped later than 8:12. The money find on Tena Bar suggest the money ended up in the Columbia at some point. Kaye’s diatom research suggests it ended up there in spring time which is flood season. Taking all of those things into account, I theorize that Cooper and/or the money ended up near the north bank of the Columbia and several months later was transported via flood waters to Tena Bar - likely using river debris such as a brand or log as the vehicle. 

This theory accounts for all of the known evidence without rejecting any. 

Can I PROVE this? Of course not. Am I trying to? Of course. But that’s the story with everyone else in the Vortex too. 

 

Of course you are rejecting evidence. You are rejecting the FBI LZ that they concluded 50 years ago from more evidence and immediate access to fresh witnesses than you have.

 

..not all conjecture is equal. Some is backed by evidence and some by little or nothing. Sometimes we have no evidence so conjecture is all we have.

My point is YOUR argument is not backed by evidence and is PURE conjecture. The FBI analysis was based on evidence and witnesses. If you want to reject it you need alot more than pure conjecture.

 

You are rejecting evidence and IMO misinterpreting some.

The crew stated that they believed 8:10/11 certainly before 8:15.

The lights of Portland. That is not over the Columbia.. that is N of Vancouver.

The sled test matched exactly. 

FDR and other timing data.

If Cooper landed next to the Columbia, higher probability a body or a chute would be found.

Instrument oscillations were caused by pressure changes, Anderson said the "PRESSURE BUMP" was the largest by far... so that means there were many. There were many because they were gauge oscillations which increased in frequency and magnitude after weight left the stairs. Pressure changes cause oscillations, the "PRESSURE BUMP" was just the biggest one of a series of pressure changes that was felt...

When the crew reported oscillations, they were reporting a marked increase, prior oscillations were minor. That increase matched the sled test.

To completely reject the evidence and FBI's work without any evidence is a high bar...

Everybody has at some entertained the idea that Cooper landed in the Columbia this isn't new, but there was no evidence for it.. Now, the diatoms indicate the money didn't go straight into the Columbia so the theory shifts to near the Columbia.

 

The evidence supports the FBI's LZ...

One plausible theory is that at least one bundle left the open stairs after Cooper jumped but there are many other theories.

 

My conclusions..

FBI flightpath is correct with a 1 mile and 1 minute error. The map is a point plot, it can be smoothed out.

Cooper landed in the FBI LZ at 8:10/11 to 8:15 latest. 

The money entered the Columbia as a single rubber banded bundle of packets in the Spring.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Chaucer said:

No, I am simply respectfully disagreeing with someone’s conclusions. My beliefs and theories on this case have been very consistent throughout. If I was being “argumentative”, then I would argue with everyone about everything. That’s not the case. 

You clearly have a personal issue with me. Whatever...

My conclusion is that the FBI got the LZ right,,,

You need to have evidence that proves they got it wrong.

 

An example...

The FBI made a public statement about Hahneman that would show he couldn't be Cooper.. I found three witnesses and info that proves the statement made by the FBI was 100% false. Was it a mistake or intentional misinformation from a higher level,, I don't know..  I suspect it was cover from the State Department.

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Of course you are rejecting evidence. You are rejecting the FBI LZ that they concluded 50 years ago from more evidence and immediate access to fresh witnesses than you have.

 

..not all conjecture is equal. Some is backed by evidence and some by little or nothing. Sometimes we have no evidence so conjecture is all we have.

My point is YOUR argument is not backed by evidence and is PURE conjecture. The FBI analysis was based on evidence and witnesses. If you want to reject it you need alot more than pure conjecture.

 

You are rejecting evidence and IMO misinterpreting some.

The crew stated that they believed 8:10/11 certainly before 8:15.

The lights of Portland. That is not over the Columbia.. that is N of Vancouver.

The sled test matched exactly. 

FDR and other timing data.

If Cooper landed next to the Columbia, higher probability a body or a chute would be found.

Instrument oscillations were caused by pressure changes, Anderson said the "PRESSURE BUMP" was the largest by far... so that means there were many. There were many because they were gauge oscillations which increased in frequency and magnitude after weight left the stairs. Pressure changes cause oscillations, the "PRESSURE BUMP" was just the biggest one of a series of pressure changes that was felt...

When the crew reported oscillations, they were reporting a marked increase, prior oscillations were minor. That increase matched the sled test.

To completely reject the evidence and FBI's work without any evidence is a high bar...

Everybody has at some entertained the idea that Cooper landed in the Columbia this isn't new, but there was no evidence for it.. Now, the diatoms indicate the money didn't go straight into the Columbia so the theory shifts to near the Columbia.

 

The evidence supports the FBI's LZ...

One plausible theory is that at least one bundle left the open stairs after Cooper jumped but there are many other theories.

 

My conclusions..

FBI flightpath is correct with a 1 mile and 1 minute error. The map is a point plot, it can be smoothed out.

Cooper landed in the FBI LZ at 8:10/11 to 8:15 latest. 

The money entered the Columbia as a single rubber banded bundle of packets in the Spring.

 

If disputing the FBI LZ is rejecting evidence then the FBI is also guilty of that. Larry Carr also suggested the LZ was farther south. Also, the FBI’s LZ was based on their misinterpretation of the “oscillations” vs. the “pressure bump”. 
 

They incorrectly assumed that the jump occurred at 8:11 when the oscillations were reported. That was incorrect. Thus, the LZ was wrong. Carr and others realized this later on.

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4 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

If disputing the FBI LZ is rejecting evidence then the FBI is also guilty of that. Larry Carr also suggested the LZ was farther south. Also, the FBI’s LZ was based on their misinterpretation of the “oscillations” vs. the “pressure bump”. 
 

They incorrectly assumed that the jump occurred at 8:11 when the oscillations were reported. That was incorrect. Thus, the LZ was wrong. Carr and others realized this later on.

Carr expressed his opinion, he has been wrong on many things.. Don't use Carr's opinion as an authority on anything,, what evidence did he have,,, none.

Suggesting the possibility that Cooper jumped later isn't a problem, everyone has considered it. 

There is just no evidence for it and the evidence indicates the FBI got it right.

 

Your claim that the FBI incorrectly assumed the jump occurred at (about) 8:11 is not backed by evidence. It is PURE conjecture with NO evidence. 

 

 

 

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Looks like I still have a stalker over at Shutter's forum.. long after I've left.

The guy can't stop talking about me...

He's always been mad because I caught him making up Cooper evidence just to win a debate.

Your 15 minutes expired long ago Georger, you are irrelevant and toxic.

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20 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Carr expressed his opinion, he has been wrong on many things.. Don't use Carr's opinion as an authority on anything,, what evidence did he have,,, none.

Suggesting the possibility that Cooper jumped later isn't a problem, everyone has considered it. 

There is just no evidence for it and the evidence indicates the FBI got it right.

 

Your claim that the FBI incorrectly assumed the jump occurred at (about) 8:11 is not backed by evidence. It is PURE conjecture with NO evidence. 

 

 

 

FJ,

Look at the 302s. There is constant conflation between the pressure bump and the oscillations. The LZ is based on the report of the oscillations not the pressure bump. No time stamp for the pressure bump exists in the official documents.

There is a great deal of evidence that the jump occurred later than is generally accepted including the money find and crew statements.

8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I want to make a couple of quick observations on the jump point and where Cooper ended up. First off...(Chaucer) you can't be right and wrong at the same time. They KNOW when Cooper jumped, as you say, within about a mile all around. But that didn't happen over the Columbia, so your theory that one bundle of the cash plopped into the river naturally is damn near impossible. The flight was not over the Columbia River, and miles north of it when Cooper jumped. You cannot have it both ways here. 

If the money went into the Columbia, this ONE bundle, it did not happen by falling out of the sky. It was done purposely LATER. I still say that this was probably done AFTER November 24, 1976. All the news media, TV and the local papers, were doing lead-up stories prior to that date as it approached. They were saying that Cooper would be free and clear because of the Statute of Limitations...and no one at the FBI was disputing that. In fact, they didn't say anything at all about it. So everyone assumed that this was the way it was going to go, and some news sources and TV guys started saying Cooper might go public after that date since they thought he couldn't be touched. 

If you assume that Cooper saw these things on TV and in the papers, you can assume he thought it was true as well. But then the FBI did an end-around on him down in Portland and managed to get that John Doe warrant on the very last day. I have suggested that Cooper....once he heard what they did....would have been crushed, disappointed, and then maybe fearful. Now they will be looking for him the rest of his life. All they have to do is keep renewing the warrant, which they did. (I think it's every two years or something) So maybe Cooper decided to try taking things into his own hands and throwing off the FBI with a money drop somewhere...I guess the Columbia...and if this was the case....it WORKED. After the money find at Tina Bar, the FBI started saying they thought Cooper died in the jump and they started cutting back the budget for the investigation. 

EDIT: Non-Cooper But Might Be Interesting Department

The Congressional Report on UFO's is coming out today, maybe tomorrow, but no later publicly than June 30. 

Due to the sudden surge in interest for our Skywatch Party in July, (most of the new people inquiring are now coming publicly, rather than from SUFON, 'Seattle UFO Network') I have decided to download the entire Congressional report it its entirety, convert it to a high-definition setting PDF, and make it available to the public. 

I'm not doing this because I think the public can't get it elsewhere. I'm doing it because I urged SUFON members to download it to their tablets for table discussions on the document at the Skywatch Party. It will also be available for download at the Skywatch page at AB of Seattle, for anyone who is attending. I told people already coming through Meetup or Facebook to stick that document on their tablets...and then bring their tablets WITH them for these table discussions. Sure, I would love to have a print copy of the entire document, but these things sometimes run a couple of thousand pages, so going PDF is probably the best approach. If everyone attending has a solid copy on their tablets, table discussions are made much easier. 

It turns out that associating with SUFON, and holding an event such as we are planning, and that this event comes shortly after the release of the Congressional report was probably one of the best ideas I've ever had. It's getting to the point where I might have to say we are 'full up' on attendance. As the report approaches, people are hearing about this party more than I thought they would, and now many of them want to make the trip up to Greenwater and attend. Three weeks ago I wasn't sure how many we would get. Now I think we will reach the max (75 people) easily. I think I created a monster here. I was going to bring just ONE long fold up table. Now I am bringing two. 

Grapes.jpg

In the interest of transparency and truth, I am going to tell everyone something else. 

If you have any funny ideas out there in Cooperland about interfering with the Skywatch event, let me clue you Cooper Haters in on a couple of things before you do. 

If I find out anyone is doing that, I will create another PDF, one laying out a few facts, and have that sent out to everyone and anyone involved in CC21. I mean the sponsors, the guest speakers, the Kiggins Theater staff, the press in Vancouver and Portland. EVERYONE. And it will not be flattering. We will drop the bricks on you like Dorothy's house dropping on the Wicked Witch of the East. 

I will remind you that we offered to support CC21 both online and financially, and so far, those offers have been met with silence. (Which in our opinion is really dumb, but that's your right and okay.) It's a live and let live thing now with us regarding both Skywatch and CC21. We may even post some positive articles about it anyway over the coming months and urge people to attend, whether you want that or not. We have nothing against a successful convention. Nothing. 

Just don't mess with the Prime Directive, or we can be a very formidable enemy. We don't want to BE your enemy. We want to support you whether you acknowledge that support or not. And since you plan to ask for more than twenty bucks a ticket, you need all the help you can get. What is good for you, is also good for us. 

That, my friends, was a warning. And at the same time, it was also a positive offer. 

If they KNOW when Cooper jumped then they aren’t saying because there is no documentation of when the pressure bump occurred and the crew has never given an exact time. Full stop.

That leaves open the possibility that the jump was closer to the river.

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1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

FJ,

Look at the 302s. There is constant conflation between the pressure bump and the oscillations. The LZ is based on the report of the oscillations not the pressure bump. No time stamp for the pressure bump exists in the official documents.

There is a great deal of evidence that the jump occurred later than is generally accepted including the money find and crew statements.

If they KNOW when Cooper jumped then they aren’t saying because there is no documentation of when the pressure bump occurred and the crew has never given an exact time. Full stop.

That leaves open the possibility that the jump was closer to the river.

 

Wrong, the crew stated they believed 8:10/11. Certainly before 8:15.

The crew said they could see the lights of Portland, that isn't over the Columbia.

The "pressure bump" was a BIGGER oscillation that was felt. That is why they use them interchangeably. 

No time stamp exists for the "bump" because it was the reported oscillations..

 

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Wrong, the crew stated they believed 8:10/11. Certainly before 8:15.

The crew said they could see the lights of Portland, that isn't over the Columbia.

The "pressure bump" was a BIGGER oscillation that was felt. That is why they use them interchangeably. 

No time stamp exists for the "bump" because it was the reported oscillations..

 

Sigh.

The 8:10/8:11 time is from the report of the oscillations NOT the pressure bump. The time of the pressure bump is not reported nor recorded.
 

Im not saying it was OVER the Columbia but it was near enough to the river to end up on the northern bank.

The ability for the plane to be near the north side of the Columbia exists. 

 

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(edited)
48 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Sigh.

The 8:10/8:11 time is from the report of the oscillations NOT the pressure bump. The time of the pressure bump is not reported nor recorded.
 

Im not saying it was OVER the Columbia but it was near enough to the river to end up on the northern bank.

The ability for the plane to be near the north side of the Columbia exists. 

 

Winds were from SE near Portland, to land on the North side he would have had to jump South side unless a no pull. Something would have been found there.

 

Wrong, the time is from the crew...  those oscillations ended with a BIG oscillation felt in the cabin aka pressure bump. If they knew the pressure bump was a second event and was 7-8 minutes later they would have acknowledged that at the time.

crewcertain815.jpeg.63f4f831045c2167b577ea5e95e4e8a4.jpeg

 

982629637_fluctuationsfeltFBI23113.jpeg.e9d4649ec18524851fb269dc2e6dc8cb.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 6/24/2021 at 9:27 AM, Chaucer said:

No, I am simply respectfully disagreeing with someone’s conclusions. My beliefs and theories on this case have been very consistent throughout. If I was being “argumentative”, then I would argue with everyone about everything. That’s not the case. 

You clearly have a personal issue with me. Whatever...

Chaucer getting owned. 

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45 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Didn't Rataczak actually state during the flight when he thought Cooper jumped? I recall a report of him saying something along the lines of "our friend may have just left us" or something like that. Not sure what jump time that was associated with though.

Yes, Rat has confirmed that publicly but it has never been officially released with any timestamp.

This is the closest,,, Rat...  "ears to pop" (pressure bump) ... That's just the way it was at 8:10.

1755802401_fluctuationsfeltFBI23113.jpeg.178b454d3930a3ce0a5f018da713156e.jpeg

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On 6/26/2021 at 12:00 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

It wasn't a hobo or a bum because the trains don't slow down enough in that area to do tha

I don't believe this statement to be correct. I believe that the trains did in fact slow down in this area. In fact, I believe that the trains actually came to a complete stop while loading and unloading cars and such.

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I believe there was a switch on the main track that diverted cars onto a short piece of train tracks running parallel to the main tracks. This short piece of track was located between the main track and the back of the store.(pretty sure)  In fact I think you posted a pic that showed this switch. This was a while back.

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Bill Rataczak gave a talk on the hijacking in 2012 for NWA... (it was discussed years ago)

This is the summary in the NWA newsletter (link)

http://northwestairlineshistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1209-newsletter.pdf

and the dvd of the 1.5 hour talk is for sale on ebay, only 4 left.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303269552131?hash=item469c462003:g:VnQAAOxymiVQ9cgU

 

 

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On 6/25/2021 at 3:55 PM, FLYJACK said:

Winds were from SE near Portland, to land on the North side he would have had to jump South side unless a no pull. Something would have been found there.

 

Wrong, the time is from the crew...  those oscillations ended with a BIG oscillation felt in the cabin aka pressure bump. If they knew the pressure bump was a second event and was 7-8 minutes later they would have acknowledged that at the time.

crewcertain815.jpeg.63f4f831045c2167b577ea5e95e4e8a4.jpeg

 

982629637_fluctuationsfeltFBI23113.jpeg.e9d4649ec18524851fb269dc2e6dc8cb.jpeg

The winds from the SE and the forward throw of Cooper jumping into that wind traveling roughly from the NE would have essentially negated one another. Cooper likely would have fallen basically straight down if a no pull. 

The 8:10 time for the pressure bump is impossible if you take into account the fact that the oscillations themselves weren’t reported until 8:11/8:12. That’s like giving birth and then telling the doctor that you feel labor pains two minutes later. Moreover, Anderson has stated that they delayed in reporting the pressure bump:

After the final "bump" which we felt with our ears, we all discussed it for awhile, waiting for another bump.  It never occurred, so we assumed that was his exit.  But we discussed this among ourselves before notifying NWA.  The truth is, we just didn't know for sure.  I just don't recall how much time lapsed between feeling the final "bump" and reporting it to NWA via radio.  That’s where the uncertainty has come from.  

But later we all thought that final bump was his exit.”

Thus, the crew wasn’t giving an exact time. They were giving us a broad range which I described before because they weren’t sure when the pressure bump happened. Combine that with the questions about the timing of the flight path and you could certainly extend that range even further south. 

The bottom line is that there is uncertainty regarding WHEN Cooper jumped and therefore, uncertainty regarding the drop zone. I believe it is possible that the jump was anywhere from Battleground to the northern bank of the Columbia. Based on the money find, I conclude it was the latter. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

The winds from the SE and the forward throw of Cooper jumping into that wind traveling roughly from the NE would have essentially negated one another. Cooper likely would have fallen basically straight down if a no pull. 

The 8:10 time for the pressure bump is impossible if you take into account the fact that the oscillations themselves weren’t reported until 8:11/8:12. That’s like giving birth and then telling the doctor that you feel labor pains two minutes later. Moreover, Anderson has stated that they delayed in reporting the pressure bump:

After the final "bump" which we felt with our ears, we all discussed it for awhile, waiting for another bump.  It never occurred, so we assumed that was his exit.  But we discussed this among ourselves before notifying NWA.  The truth is, we just didn't know for sure.  I just don't recall how much time lapsed between feeling the final "bump" and reporting it to NWA via radio.  That’s where the uncertainty has come from.  

But later we all thought that final bump was his exit.”

Thus, the crew wasn’t giving an exact time. They were giving us a broad range which I described before because they weren’t sure when the pressure bump happened. Combine that with the questions about the timing of the flight path and you could certainly extend that range even further south. 

The bottom line is that there is uncertainty regarding WHEN Cooper jumped and therefore, uncertainty regarding the drop zone. I believe it is possible that the jump was anywhere from Battleground to the northern bank of the Columbia. Based on the money find, I conclude it was the latter. 

yeah, I know your argument... It isn't new, everyone has considered it at some point.

 

Winds would not necessarily be negated by the pull... depends on height of the pull.

The crew said 8:10/11...  

The lights of Portland are NOT over the Columbia. That would be North of Vancouver.

Anderson said.. largest bump by far.....  aka many bumps

Ratazcak.. ears popped 8:10

Why do you keep ignoring the evidence?

 

There is just no evidence for it. The money find is not evidence. There can be many ways the money got there but because we can't prove how that uncertainty is now falsely claimed to be evidence of a later jump.

Frankly, I find this argument similar to Eric's western flight path...  it is legit to consider but there is just no evidence for it and you are rejecting contradictory evidence..

At best, it just a speculation with no evidence.

If you find some new evidence, let me know.

 

You keep claiming the FBI got the LZ wrong with no proof... The analysis done in 71/72 had access to more evidence and the fresh memories of the crew that you don't have..

What do you know that they didn't know.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

yeah, I know your argument... It isn't new, everyone has considered it at some point.

 

Winds would not necessarily be negated by the pull... depends on height of the pull.

The crew said 8:10/11...  

The lights of Portland are NOT over the Columbia. That would be North of Vancouver.

Anderson said.. largest bump by far.....  aka many bumps

Ratazcak.. ears popped 8:10

Why do you keep ignoring the evidence?

 

There is just no evidence for it. The money find is not evidence. There can be many ways the money got there but because we can't prove how that uncertainty is now falsely claimed to be evidence of a later jump.

Frankly, I find this argument similar to Eric's western flight path...  it is legit to consider but there is just no evidence for it and you are rejecting contradictory evidence..

At best, it just a speculation with no evidence.

If you find some new evidence, let me know.

 

You keep claiming the FBI got the LZ wrong with no proof... The analysis done in 71/72 had access to more evidence and the fresh memories of the crew that you don't have..

What do you know that they didn't know.

 

I’m not suggesting my argument is novel. On the contrary, Tosaw and Carr both subscribed to it. 

Second, I’ve done the math on the forward throw. Wind would have little or no influence on the fall from 10,000. I encourage anyone to do the same calculations. 

Third, I have never once suggested that the plane was OVER the Columbia. The plane doesn’t have to be over the river for Cooper or the money to end up on the northern banks for reasons I have stated above. 

You keep saying the crew said 8:10/8:11. That’s impossible because that is when they reported the oscillations - not the pressure bump. You also are ignoring the fact that they said it could have been as late as 8:15. That underscores the fact that they didn’t know the precise time of the jump. 

Regarding Anderson, how is that pertinent? The “largest bump by far” would have been the pressure bump, and he states that he isn’t sure when it happened, but that it wasn’t reported until later. There’s no report of a pressure bump at 8:10/8:11 as you claim. 

I still don’t know what evidence I’m “ignoring”. I’m looking at the same 302s, the same transcripts as you. The conclusion I arrive at is that there is a great deal of uncertainty regarding where along the flight path the plane was and when Cooper jumped along that flight path. It’s imprecise. All we have is a range. Based on the information we have that range is 8:13 to 8:17. 8:13 is one minute after the last report of oscillations. 8:17 is when the plane reached the Columbia.

You’re right. By itself, the money find can’t be used as evidence. But when you take the flight path and you add where the money was found, the only logical way to triangulate those two data points is via the river. Either a human being put the money in the water months after the hijacking or it ended up there by natural means. I think my conclusion is more reasonable. Can I prove it? No. But that doesn’t make it wild speculation as you imply.

Lastly, the LZ after the hijacking was based on Paul Soderlind’s calculations. In Chapter 8 of Tosaw’s book, Soderlind reviewed the flight data and came up with an LZ extending to the Columbia - the same conclusion he says he arrived at the night of the hijacking. Agent Carr also questioned the original LZ and suggested moving it farther south. Clearly, I’m the least qualified person to questions the original LZ, but I’m not the only person to do so.

At the end of the day, Flyjack, you have to reconcile the FBI flight path with the money find. How did the money end up miles west of where you believe he jumped? Human intervention? Where’s the evidence? Flow from tributaries? Where’s the evidence? Aliens? Where’s the evidence?

All of this is speculation, and to dismiss my theory as baseless speculation is ironic considering, 

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2 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

I’m not suggesting my argument is novel. On the contrary, Tosaw and Carr both subscribed to it. 

Second, I’ve done the math on the forward throw. Wind would have little or no influence on the fall from 10,000. I encourage anyone to do the same calculations. 

Third, I have never once suggested that the plane was OVER the Columbia. The plane doesn’t have to be over the river for Cooper or the money to end up on the northern banks for reasons I have stated above. 

You keep saying the crew said 8:10/8:11. That’s impossible because that is when they reported the oscillations - not the pressure bump. You also are ignoring the fact that they said it could have been as late as 8:15. That underscores the fact that they didn’t know the precise time of the jump. 

Regarding Anderson, how is that pertinent? The “largest bump by far” would have been the pressure bump, and he states that he isn’t sure when it happened, but that it wasn’t reported until later. There’s no report of a pressure bump at 8:10/8:11 as you claim. 

I still don’t know what evidence I’m “ignoring”. I’m looking at the same 302s, the same transcripts as you. The conclusion I arrive at is that there is a great deal of uncertainty regarding where along the flight path the plane was and when Cooper jumped along that flight path. It’s imprecise. All we have is a range. Based on the information we have that range is 8:13 to 8:17. 8:13 is one minute after the last report of oscillations. 8:17 is when the plane reached the Columbia.

You’re right. By itself, the money find can’t be used as evidence. But when you take the flight path and you add where the money was found, the only logical way to triangulate those two data points is via the river. Either a human being put the money in the water months after the hijacking or it ended up there by natural means. I think my conclusion is more reasonable. Can I prove it? No. But that doesn’t make it wild speculation as you imply.

Lastly, the LZ after the hijacking was based on Paul Soderlind’s calculations. In Chapter 8 of Tosaw’s book, Soderlind reviewed the flight data and came up with an LZ extending to the Columbia - the same conclusion he says he arrived at the night of the hijacking. Agent Carr also questioned the original LZ and suggested moving it farther south. Clearly, I’m the least qualified person to questions the original LZ, but I’m not the only person to do so.

At the end of the day, Flyjack, you have to reconcile the FBI flight path with the money find. How did the money end up miles west of where you believe he jumped? Human intervention? Where’s the evidence? Flow from tributaries? Where’s the evidence? Aliens? Where’s the evidence?

All of this is speculation, and to dismiss my theory as baseless speculation is ironic considering, 

EVERYONE has considered it... nobody can support it with evidence. My point is what do you have that nobody else has already considered?

For Cooper to land on the north bank he would have to jump over the Columbia if he pulled early. No evidence was ever found there and it is a well populated area. 

I stated several times the crews time estimate AND posted it so when I read you falsely claim that I am ignoring it you are lying. Don't pull that BS.

The "largest bump by far" means there were more and smaller ones, right... like oscillations. Or what were they?

You are ignoring the crew statements at the time. 

Lights of Portland is NOT over the Columbia River.

The crew wasn't sure what was happening and used the term "pressure bump" in retrospect, that is why it wasn't reported using those exact words.

You have created a circular argument. The crew didn't use the term "pressure bump" at 8:10 so it didn't happen at 8:10. If it didn't happen then, it was later and Cooper landed next to the Columbia. This is flawed logic. The crew applied the term after they had reflected on the event to distinguish the largest bump felt by the crew and when they believed Cooper jumped. The so called "pressure bump" (largest by far) was felt and was seen on instruments as oscillations..  Even the crew confirmed the reported oscillation time was when they believed the pressure bump occurred.

So, if the crew were wrong, the FBI and investigators got it all wrong 50 years ago.. we need evidence for that, not just a random claim.

The TBAR money is not evidence to support a Columbia jump.. Why? because TBAR is an unknown. You can't use an unknown as evidence,,  that is for Ulis.

Everybody considered pushing the LZ more South based on the TBAR money find and nothing being found, this is legit and human nature to explore in theory but there is no evidence. Claiming XYZ considered it is also not evidence... just another logical fallacy.

 

You do have to reconcile the FP and LZ with TBAR, but it needs to fit within the evidence. I have several theories that maintain the FP and LZ and there may be some nobody has even thought of. 

 

I am not dismissing your theory, I am saying that it isn't new, you have added nothing to what many have already considered and like you they have found no supporting evidence. 

Your entire argument is based on stacked assumptions and conjecture while rejecting contrary evidence... So, unless there is something new, I am not convinced by your argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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