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On 10/23/2020 at 7:25 PM, FLYJACK said:

Ok, I think I got it..  that wasn't the light he is referring to. It is the cabin pressure rate of change gauge. That makes more sense as the stair light is activated by the lever position.

cabinpressureguage.jpeg.b14b3f096537edb8cf9f934f0b69bc5b.jpeg

cabinpressure.jpeg.58171b70c4317dd8d280424938c574e7.jpeg

 

engineerpressure.jpeg.a074eda6e2bb27a858f7b50acd9cbca0.jpeg

It wasn't a light, it was the cabin pressure gauge on the Engineer's panel.

If the stairs bang up the light doesn't go out.. because the handle is not in the up detent.

 

 

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Interview with Jack Almstad NORJAK passenger..

Contradicts the FBI narrative...

 

https://patch.com/california/livermore/livermore-man-recaps-encounter-with-db-cooper

 

"A refueling truck and bus pulled up next to the plane. A person also entered the plane.

"They walked down the aisle and it looked like they were holding a pillow slip," Almstad said. "It had jagged points. Looked like a bag of bricks."

The bag likely contained the $200,000 ransom D.B. Cooper demanded, Almstad said."

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/

Then a guy, I it was a man, came walking down the aisle with a white sack. To me, it looked like a pillow slip, and it had all these jagged points in it. And I remember the thought I had, that looks like bricks in it, or a bag of money, I thought,” Almstad said.

Almstad believes he may have seen the $200,000 ransom that Cooper had demanded, along with a parachute."

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https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/db-cooper-tina-mucklow-untold-story-1111944/

 

"Recently, Mucklow has reconsidered her silence, agreeing to occasional interviews. This year, marking the 50th anniversary of the famous crime, she’s consulting on the production of a scripted film — an action thriller by Joey McFarland and Dawn Bierschwal — about the crew’s experience of the hijacking."

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Cossey made a Cooper replica for Tosaw... Cossey signed card.

A 28' Reliance...

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed-190703299

This is a replica parachute of the chute used by D.B. Cooper in his legendary skyjacking. This replica parachute was owned by Richard Tosaw, former FBI agent, and packed by Earl J. Cossey. Richard Tosaw wrote the first book on D.B. Cooper called, "D.B. Cooper, Dead or Alive?" This parachute is an estate item. I don't know if the parachute works, and have left it packed. It seems to be in good condition.

b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed_1_59889d9af101947f735e40fbb29a08d9-5.jpg.c4bb8d813c06407358eb85c4b7e77398.jpg

b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed_1_59889d9af101947f735e40fbb29a08d9-7.jpg.3c785e693ae5c3ff10d8b435042c9b5c.jpg

b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed_1_59889d9af101947f735e40fbb29a08d9-6.jpg.bad010def0af07af989c3bf68f880a0a.jpg

 

That chute matches Cossey's description in the FBI files, it does not match Hayden's description.. 

Hayden claimed he never spoke with FBI...  yet they quote him describing the chutes.

Hayden claimed both chutes were identical... but the two described by the FBI and Cossey were not..

Clearly, this replica chute does not match Hayden's.

 

1. 

MAKE: Pioneer 

TYPE: 26 ft white ripstop conical, 

SERIAL NO: 226, 

DATE OF MFR 9/57 (1957)

packed by Cossey 5/21/71 

(Hayden got this one back)

 

2. 

MAKE: Pioneer 

TYPE: 24 ft white ripstop conical, 

SERIAL NO:  60-9707,   

DATE OF MFR: 7/60 (1960)

packed by Cossey 5/21/71 

(This back chute was left on the plane, ID'd by National Guard in Reno)

 

9707chutefoundplane.jpeg.171752ad2ec04eeb637795eefc5dba74.jpeg

 

Hayden requested his chute back, believing one was left and one taken...

The FBI responded to Hayden in the plural, "these chutes ... "they"..  did the FBI still have both of Hayden's chutes..

haydenaskchutes.jpeg.17eca6b592a61e1a574165e456355b42.jpeg

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The harness date is April 1957...   consistent with Hayden chute 1 .. and not a potential error source for chute 2 data.

Maybe, but...

That particular label is for the harness itself. The rig consists of three* major components, the harness*, the container*, and the parachute canopy. They would have separate part #'s, serial #'s, and dates of manufacture.

* The harness and container are separate components, but are then sewn together as one unit. They could make a batch of harnesses, then use the same harness type on different container types. That label seems to indicate that it's just for the harness. The other stamped number has a 'P', indicating a part #, and there doesn't seem to be a serial # for it. Somewhere on the container I believe would be another label for the harness/container assembly, and I would expect that to have the serial #.  (The canopy is a separate component altogether, and any of a number of canopies could be installed in a rig, as long as the pack volume was compatible with the container size.)

Also note that the DOM of the harness is APRIL of '57, while the canopy's DOM is SEPTEMBER of '57.

--------

From your previous post...

The information lists seem to be from the canopies themselves, and would indeed indicate different rigs. That they were both packed by Cossey on the same day might indicate that those are both of Hayden's rigs. If so, then that supports your original conclusion - If both of Hayden's rigs are accounted for, then what rig did Cooper jump and where did it come from?

Also of note from the first post... That picture of the replica rig also shows the ripcord housing going to the left side, not the usual right side. And the ripcord is not routed through the housing, you can see the rc cable and handle stowed under the pack opening bands. Those bands had actual metal coiled springs in them. In early days before soft closing loops, one side flap of the container had metal cones, which would fit through grommets on the other side flap, then the ripcord pins would go through holes in the cones. Sometimes the cones and grommets would not want to separate, causing a 'total' malfunction, where the container did not open. Those spring loaded bands would pull the flaps apart, opening the container.

Edited by dudeman17

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3 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Maybe, but...

That particular label is for the harness itself. The rig consists of three* major components, the harness*, the container*, and the parachute canopy. They would have separate part #'s, serial #'s, and dates of manufacture.

* The harness and container are separate components, but are then sewn together as one unit. They could make a batch of harnesses, then use the same harness type on different container types. That label seems to indicate that it's just for the harness. The other stamped number has a 'P', indicating a part #, and there doesn't seem to be a serial # for it. Somewhere on the container I believe would be another label for the harness/container assembly, and I would expect that to have the serial #.  (The canopy is a separate component altogether, and any of a number of canopies could be installed in a rig, as long as the pack volume was compatible with the container size.)

Also note that the DOM of the harness is APRIL of '57, while the canopy's DOM is SEPTEMBER of '57.

 

 

I was referring to the date on the harness only.. Hayden's returned chute harness data is not the source for any sort of possible dating error. The card for that chute showed S/N 226 for three packing jobs so it isn't the chute either. We don't know about any numbers on the container itself.

dbc-parachutes-hayden-card-pararchute-identification-4.jpg.7043e984088bb61a653c699cfceca92f.jpg

 

BTW, the S/N for the 1960 Pioneer back chute "noted" found left on the plane was 60-9707, the precursor digits "60" is consistent with a 1960 manufacture date.  (year - serial number)

 

Cossey claimed that he had modified the ripcord location on Cooper's rig..

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

We don't know about any numbers on the container itself.

Somewhere on the container (often on the backpad, up against the wearer's back) is a little pocket where the packing card goes. Usually there's a little flap that folds out of it, and that is usually where the container info is. I was speculating 'over there' the possibility that someone might have written the container SN on one report, and someone else might have written the canopy SN on the other. But with the specificity of the info you provide, different size canopies and all, that would appear to not be the case.

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

Somewhere on the container (often on the backpad, up against the wearer's back) is a little pocket where the packing card goes. Usually there's a little flap that folds out of it, and that is usually where the container info is. I was speculating 'over there' the possibility that someone might have written the container SN on one report, and someone else might have written the canopy SN on the other. But with the specificity of the info you provide, different size canopies and all, that would appear to not be the case.

Can't rule it out until we find the data on the container..

 

Here is a random 1960 tan Pioneer container,,, the data is stamped across the upper back and oddly it has a silk chute.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-Parachute-Vietnam-Era-U-S-Air-Force-Parachute-/264730930067

 

s-l1600-4.thumb.jpg.1193f063d58a03a575800932cf929937.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 1/29/2008 at 12:22 AM, Ckret said:

The attached pictures were captured by an AF chase plane during the testing. The plane is NWA flight 305 the one Cooper jumped from. The first two pictures show the sled at the bottom of the stairs. The third is just as the sled was pushed off the stairs.

Can anyone re-post these pictures? They don't seem to be on the site anymore.

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9 hours ago, DFS346 said:
On 1/29/2008 at 12:22 AM, Ckret said:

The attached pictures were captured by an AF chase plane during the testing. The plane is NWA flight 305 the one Cooper jumped from. The first two pictures show the sled at the bottom of the stairs. The third is just as the sled was pushed off the stairs.

Can anyone re-post these pictures? They don't seem to be on the site anymore.

Probably this,

sleddroptesta.jpg.89959681a44b3c971f7e720747f76755.jpg

 

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18 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Here is a random 1960 tan Pioneer container,,, the data is stamped across the upper back.

That's interesting. There is a part number, but no serial number. I would expect there to be a serial number for the whole harness/container assembly, I wonder if that is a part number for that piece of the container.

 

17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I would like to know how all the information presented by Flyjack concerning the parachutes given to Cooper reconciles with the document issued by FBI agent John Detlor.

How might you reconcile it? This subject comes up from time to time, and you always state that two rigs were furnished by Hayden, and two were given to Cooper. But Flyjack's info infers two rigs accounted for, so Cooper must have jumped with a third. Do you have a theory?

Also...

17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

(Hayden) got the one chute returned by paying a lawyer $250 and simply ASKING that it be returned. All the lawyer did was send a letter to the FBI, and that did the trick.

Considering the way the FBI deals with evidence, such as the Amboy chute, do you think the FBI would have given that back to him so easily if that was the one left on the plane?

------------

I'd love to read Ha Ha Ha. Any chance you'd part with one of your copies?

Edited by dudeman17

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(For the purposes of this conversation, forget the front chutes.)

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Just about every source from the very beginning has been upfront about the number of chutes given to Cooper

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Cooper was given more than two back chutes. The question is whether the FBI COLLECTED more than two back chutes before giving him two. There are reports that Cossey also gave back chutes, although I realize that his credibility with reporters and researchers is questionable. (In one of the magazine interviews that Flyjack posted a while back, Cossey claimed that he gave back chutes, one of which was a sport rig that would have the D-rings. That might allow Cooper to use the dummy reserve container to hold some of the money.) If one of Hayden's rigs was not actually given to Cooper, that might make it easier for him to get it back from the FBI.

-----

2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Not selling any of the HA HA HA copies just yet.

Maybe you'll give one as a tip if you ever show up to Elsinore for a jump after your move.

2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

No harm asking

I refer to the title...

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I believe Hayden's version of events

And you have no reason not to. But Hayden wouldn't know what else the FBI was up to. Hayden's story and Cossey's aren't necessarily conflicting. It's possible that the FBI got Hayden's two rigs, and got two more (back rigs) from Cossey, and Cooper ended up with one of each. Just trying to figure a scenario why those numbers don't match.

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

He lives less than two miles from me

Is he still around? If so, maybe you could ask him if the other serial number matches his other rig.

-----

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Hayden also had a funny attitude about parachutes. He never intended to wear one. He said he didn't trust them, and only bought the two he did (used, of course) because he was a sport flyer and the FAA made a new rule saying all sport flyers had to wear a chute while doing stunts, etc. So...he grudgingly bought them.

Yeah, most pilots want nothing to do with parachutes. But the FAA requires them for aerobatic flying.

I've always thought it was funny, that pilots want nothing to do with rigs, but everyone in any boat is required to have a floatation device. I bet most people can swim on their own better than they can land.

 

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

He said further he never would have used it to jump, because he trusted his piloting skills enough that he could still get the plane down safely in case of an emergency.

He might have thought differently in the event of a structural failure or a fire.

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On 1/29/2021 at 10:42 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

The Cooper Festival is non-political and it's not a promotion. It's an INVITATION. A promotion infers we charge money or have something to gain by tossing the festival. We don't. Nobody is selling a thing and we're putting up over $6,000 from our own pockets to do it with not a cent being asked, or being returned to us for all that. Not even a donation button on our website. I removed it. 

(Hopefully, you aren't one of those people who believe we should have just ONE main political party in the USA. If we did, they would call us the old Soviet Union.) Elena Filatova, Russia's famous 'Kid of Speed' who has these websites about Chernobyl and other nuke disasters, told me this once. She said back in those days, they sometimes had to offer free drinks to people just to get them to vote. 

We are going to allow other Cooper folk to sell things here and there if they wish though. Maybe offer their books, their theories to the crowd, show their videos and all that. I'm not even the host of the event. We're still seeking one. It's a paid position and open to the right person. 

I'd do it myself, but most of my responsibilities entail emptying the toilets and refilling the flush water for them. B) 
*****************

In other news, I would like to know how all the information presented by Flyjack concerning the parachutes given to Cooper reconciles with the document issued by FBI agent John Detlor. It's not that I don't believe, or even agree with Flyjack's assessment. But there have been a couple of stories floating around concerning the chutes. The report by Detlor was issued shortly after the hijacking:

HaydenCosseyFBIExcerpt2.thumb.jpg.a3ec840eee88585af081ab33a3017f5e.jpg

NOTE: Some years ago, I interviewed Norman Hayden on the chutes. He had not seen the report by Detlor. I sent him a copy. He agreed it was completely accurate, (for his part anyway) and asked for a high-res version, which I sent to him. He printed it up and had it framed for his office. 

Interestingly enough, he got the one chute returned by paying a lawyer $250 and simply ASKING that it be returned. All the lawyer did was send a letter to the FBI, and that did the trick. Two FBI agents met Hayden in person he said, and gave it to him. He also said they seemed a bit miffed about having to return it. 

I spent YEARS defendng you from idiots here. I enjoyed your outdoor stories, as well as the detailed suspect info in re Kenny. Now all you do is post evey few weeks that you are done posting here, and then post again about your campout. That's fine. Take your leftist shit to Speakers Corner. You'll do fine there.

EDIT:

And there are folks like FLYJACK who keep adding interesting information, but you drown it out at 5+ to 1. Post real DB info or bow the fuck out. Have your campout (which I would love to attend, but can't).

Edited by 1969912
To add text

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There are several overlapping issues with chutes..

The card ID's by the FBI conflict, the physical descriptions conflict and the background stories conflict.

Hayden bought the two chutes n May 1971, packed by Cossey May 21, 1971.

Hayden claimed he doesn't know Cossey and Cossey doesn't know Hayden. Hayden must have ordered the chutes through Issaquah Skysports or something like that.

Hayden claimed his chutes were "identical". The FBI and Cossey claim they were very different.

The FBI claimed Hayden gave them the chute descriptions.. Hayden claimed he didn't, never spoke to the FBI and disagrees with the FBI descriptions.

Cossey claimed he gave the FBI his packing records, the FBI claimed they never got them.

The FBI did not record and does not have the ID numbers of the chutes taken by Cooper.

Cossey claimed he altered the handle on the chute Cooper took..  That doesn't make sense to alter one of two rigs if supplying chutes to Hayden for emergency bailout.

Another problem,, Cossey was told that a Pioneer chute was left in the plane,, From that Cossey ID'd the chute taken by Cooper on an assumption. Cossey sold two chutes to Hayden 6 months prior not knowing Hayden..  How does Cossey know those two chutes? Cossey is going completely on recall, he is recalling two chutes sold six months prior to a person he never met and doesn't know.  Cossey could only have been told that the back rigs came from Hayden (he doesn't know). How could he have Id'd them with certainty after the hijacking? 

 

chute9707cardfound.jpeg.fb1e120f4716fe6c3b512fe8db6c9472.jpeg

 

Two backpacks olive drab seen?  

olivedrabnobleeper.jpeg.0e7abf00bfa04cb40c792f633ed99c64.jpeg.1e423b3983afbb65be233f7b4752abd9.jpeg

 

Olive drab and tan harness?

cooperchutesbeleivedesc.jpeg.5f36ed7b540ee42bb9b36c4b54cc3201.jpeg

 

 

Here is a 28' Steinthal chute..

S/N 66-12982  Sept 1966...

consistent numbering with the 60-9707 Jul 1960 chute

 

s-l1600-1.jpg.5534592d5b16889bb70653141542f530.thumb.jpg.4bd627f3a0b34b134e7c3a802bf74ae8.jpg

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Odd tidbits in news articles in last FBI file..

 

Cooper took crew meals with him..

Cooper ransom bill list distributed globally, Interpol..

Cooper tied himself to seat during initial rear stair opening..

Rear stairs retracted to within eight inches during sled test.. (didn't hit?)

 

coopertookfood.jpeg.8524a43507fb60b2a649b43840212679.jpeg

cooperbillsworld.jpeg.e57345491d7dbdb04da4dd44cd2436cf.jpeg

 

cooopertiedtoseat.jpeg.2895549c2283f9eedae070d05ed94d3a.jpeg

 

testsleddrop.jpeg.b28adc6169c30a3d577f1d883184819c.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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Cossey claimed he made the chutes..

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Unlikely-FBI-has-found-Cooper-s-chute-says-man-1268323.php

"I would recognize the stitching on the parachute," said Cossey, who believes he got the parachute in the 1960s and still has the serial number in old log books.

 

https://newspaperarchive.com/walla-walla-union-bulletin-nov-23-1988-p-5/

"The Raineys plan to show their find to Cossey on Friday. Cossey said the pilot chute used by Cooper was white, 18 inches long, between 8 and 12 inches in diameter and had a spring attached to it — similar to the pilot chute found by the Raineys. Cossey said he would recognize Cooper’s pilot chute immediately because it had some stitching that Cossey did himself."

 

 

 

four cones and four grommets?

FBI does not have records and Cossey did not provide them.

chute4grom4conesnorecordFBI.jpeg.22c52032f0cb9980ccd0b43df8b1b5a5.jpeg

 

Cossey claims, chute left on plane returned to him,,,

cosseychutereturned.jpeg.d019094d1995765aaedbbedfa745824d.jpeg

 

Cossey made the backpack chutes..

cosseymadechutes.jpeg.9f718cc186c0267a12aad641c4eb4c70.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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Would there be DNA in somebody's shoe?

 

-------

 

I wouldn't take those articles to imply that Cossey made, or actually manufactured the chutes. In the one article, it sounds like he made a repair on a pilot chute that he would recognize. In the other article, I would take that as perhaps he assembled the rigs. Generally, the harness/container is one part, and the canopy is another part. They are kind of 'mix & match', that is, you could put whatever canopy into whatever container, as long as the pack volume of the canopy is compatible with the size of the container.

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