DB Cooper

[CooperNWO305 146]

It's a good video.  I personally liked the graphics, not just for the quality, but for the visual representation of where he sat, and how the flight attendant was strapped in a seat behind him.  I'd love to see someone do a video of the whole caper in that format, from walking into the airport in Portland, to walking down the aft stairs, including ordering the drinks, etc.  

[dudeman17 270]

17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Look, I understand where you are coming from...

More paragraphs of the wrong answer.

Look, I don't know the why of all the animosity between you and all those other people, and I don't really want to be in the middle of it, but I'm trying to help you, Robert. You say you don't want to feed them, but you do. It's been suggested that you ignore them. You said that for the most part you do. But you don't. Every time they say something, you come on here and rant all the same grievances again. That is you feeding them. They know they can get your goat, so they keep doing it and it works. Ignore them. It's the only answer for you. Stop responding to them, and they'll stop egging you.

As for the info from the Sky Sports guy. Here's the ethical take: That information does not belong solely to you. You were entrusted by dw to gather it for us, and he/we expected you to share it, as you said you would. It is not yours to keep. Now, I seem to be the only one really interested in it, but it's parachute stuff, and the jump aspect is the main reason I follow this case. So if you don't want to 'feed' it to those other guys, PM it to me.

It's the right thing to do.

[CooperNWO305 146]

1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

More paragraphs of the wrong answer.

Look, I don't know the why of all the animosity between you and all those other people, and I don't really want to be in the middle of it, but I'm trying to help you, Robert. You say you don't want to feed them, but you do. It's been suggested that you ignore them. You said that for the most part you do. But you don't. Every time they say something, you come on here and rant all the same grievances again. That is you feeding them. They know they can get your goat, so they keep doing it and it works. Ignore them. It's the only answer for you. Stop responding to them, and they'll stop egging you.

As for the info from the Sky Sports guy. Here's the ethical take: That information does not belong solely to you. You were entrusted by dw to gather it for us, and he/we expected you to share it, as you said you would. It is not yours to keep. Now, I seem to be the only one really interested in it, but it's parachute stuff, and the jump aspect is the main reason I follow this case. So if you don't want to 'feed' it to those other guys, PM it to me.

It's the right thing to do.

Dudeman-Did you ever jump near Sacramento in the 70's?  Or would you know if there were any jump centers near there in 1971?  I found a family connection to a suspect and want to see if I can find out if that family member jumped.  It's a long shot, but I'm curious.

[dudeman17 270]

2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Dudeman-Did you ever jump near Sacramento in the 70's?  Or would you know if there were any jump centers near there in 1971?  I found a family connection to a suspect and want to see if I can find out if that family member jumped.  It's a long shot, but I'm curious.

PM sent.

[dudeman17 270]

3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Gayla has a differing opinion on who 'Johnnie Greene' is...

Wow. Just wow. Don't address the logic. Don't respond to the ethic. Just heaping spoonfuls of food for the trolls. It's looking like you're the one who feeds on this drama, you write way more than they do.

3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Information releases:  I have sent all remaining *new* files to the guys in Los Angeles for their review. That means THEY now own the rights to all that according to the confidentiality agreement. One of the reasons I did this was to avoid the temptation of releasing anything further. Everything that WILL be released...HAS been released. This subject is closed. If and when the movie is finally produced, that will have to be final statement on my opinions and findings regarding one Kenny Christiansen and his friend 'Uncle Bernie'.

If... IF by this you're referring to the Sky Sports info...

You don't own that info. They don't own that info. It's just part of history. IF this is how you're dealing with that, then you sir, are a swindler, a liar and a thief. And if you attribute that statement to 'jealousy', then you're also delusional.

No worries. If dw ever checks in here again, maybe he'll put me in touch with the guy. If not, I know people from Kapowsin who should know who he is. Shouldn't be too hard to track down, I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping you would 'do the right thing' and do what you 'told us straight' that you would. The behavior you've exhibited doesn't go over very well with skydivers, especially old-school ones.

Look, on the ground, wadded up and purposely thrown away - it's your integrity. Looks like it might have been there a while.

[dudeman17 270]

I don't like involving myself in this sort of thing, but since I can't jump on this gorgeous day, I've got some time to kill.

 

On 5/2/2020 at 3:49 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

 

To Dudeman:

I see you have gone over to the Dark Side at the Cooper Forum to hang with Georger and the rest of the trolls...   ...make sure you agree with everything negative they say...

 

 

I'm not there for any drama. I like reading about the case. Occasionally I have a question or a comment - about the case.

 

On 5/2/2020 at 3:49 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

Don't ask me for anything again.

 

Why would I do that? You have nothing I need. I've sometimes asked a question here that you've answered, but your answers are often incomplete and indicative that you didn't understand the question.

On the recent matter that I did ask you directly about, where I asked you to simply hold to your word, your response was abhorrent.

 

On 5/2/2020 at 3:49 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

I wouldn't be in the position I am now...

 

Huh? The position where most of your peers in this case don't respect you? The position where one of the last people who gave you the benefit of the doubt no longer trusts you?

 

On 5/2/2020 at 12:40 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

My integrity is just fine, thank you.

 

Not in this matter. Not by a long shot.

-----

 

I hope you do some soul searching while you're out in the woods.

[dudeman17 270]

Robert, take a deep breath. Relax.

I haven't 'joined' anybody, I don't 'hang out' with them. I like trippin' on the case, and nobody talks about it here anymore. Who these people are and what they do in their personal lives, I have no idea and it's none of my business. I've read some of the stuff you've linked to at Mtn News, and I agree that it's disgusting. What am I supposed to do about it? I've always treated you fair, because I take people as they come at me. This is going to sound corny, but I've always kind of liked you and your posts because you put a lot of yourself in them, and you've always seemed kind of forthright and earnest and old-school. There are some things that you've apparently done that I wouldn't agree with, but oh well. All that crap, all that bad blood between you and all the others predates my involvement, and I'm not sure what to make of it all. I've read your accounts, and they've done some pretty shitty things towards you. Why? I have no idea. But here's a thing, and you can laugh because I'm still trying to help you here, but - These things happened. How long ago? They're not going to un-happen. And apparently these people are not going to apologize and beg your forgiveness. All the railing you do about it is not healthy FOR YOU. You're getting older. That kind of stress will eat you up and KILL you. You're getting ready to move and I guess semi-retire. Hopefully the movie will do well and help with that. But what's Gayla going to do if you stress yourself into a stroke or a heart attack over all this. Forgiveness is not for them, it's FOR YOU.

This Sky Sports stuff. It's really not that big of a deal. But it's parachute stuff, and it interests me. I was mainly curious about how they ended up with that dummy reserve. But now, oh geez, now it's some sort of super-trick triple-throwdown top secret info that has to be guarded like the Holy Grail. Really? And your stress over those other guys has caused you to renege on your word and abuse me, Flyjack, Haggerknew, and anyone else who was interested, even dw, unless you told him. I'm a hard guy to piss off, but you got me a bit frustrated. Why should you give a flying fuck what those other people might think about it.

 

2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

If I released that information to you, it would just end up over THERE the same day.

 

I hope you just wrote that faster than you thought about it. "Cause it's utter balderdash. I've never taken information from here over to there. I've made what, five posts there, touching on two subjects, neither of which came from you. If you told me anything and asked me to keep it to myself, I absolutely would.

 

Geeeez Louise

Edited May 4, 2020 by dudeman17

[dudeman17 270]

23 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

These Cooper folk who supposedly want nothing to do with me, or anything we do regarding the Cooper case at AB of Seattle...

Wait like vultures for me to post information, and then pounce on it negatively.

 

Here, I'll repeat myself, too...

On 5/3/2020 at 5:31 PM, dudeman17 said:

Why should you give a flying fuck what those other people might think about it.

----

That caption in your photo - You should read that over a few times. You should repeat it in your mind, like a mantra, as you get out of your chair, go down the hall, into your restroom and look into the mirror. (And before you misread another point, I'm not saying that to call you an idiot, no, focus on the 'must learn patience' part and apply it to yourself.)

 

I suspect that you still think you're right in this matter. You're not. You've put more consideration for people who DISLIKE you over respect for people who don't. You made a commitment. You should honor it. And it's not really about the information. It would be healthier FOR YOU to do the right thing. And again...

On 5/3/2020 at 5:31 PM, dudeman17 said:

Why should you give a flying fuck what those other people might think about it.

 

And don't make a knee-jerk reaction to this post. Think about it. Talk it over with Gayla. Discuss it with your buddy Greg while you're out camping. Mull it over. See what you think about it when you get back.

-----

Geez. This lockdown crap. I've been sucked... into the vortex.  Damn, what's the name of that book? Um, errr, wait... Oh yeah,

HA HA HA

[FLYJACK 654]

FBI part 46 p 191 (18991)

 

 

Himmelsbach..

"He specifically asked for parachutes from nearby McChord Air Force Base, showing some familiarity with the area.”

 

[FLYJACK 654]

Cooper believed and accepted that the chutes were coming from McChord. 

He expected military chutes.

So when did he reject them or did he? 

 

[FLYJACK 654]

Cooper’s initial demand was Mexico City, non stop in US for any reason. It wasn’t nonstop to Mexico City, the plane could refuel in Mexico.

 

His initial demand was also airstairs lowered inflight. NOT airstairs down on takeoff, that came up later.

 

The problem everyone is noodling is why make a demand the plane's range couldn’t achieve flying dirty that would be rejected. 

The logical answer is either Cooper believed the demand was achievable or he was engaged in some sort of misdirection.

Everyone has accepted the theory that he knew it was unachievable and was somehow instigating some negotiation. I disagree, this makes no sense and there is no evidence for it..

 

IMO, Cooper thought the plane could reach Mexico.. when he made his initial demand.

So, if Cooper was knowledgable about the 727 aircraft and had flying experience how did he make such an obvious error. He got the range way off if the 727 was flying in that configuration.

 

Everybody has made the assumption that Cooper made a demand he knew was unachievable and would be rejected.

 

That assumption may be wrong.

 

Here is a theory nobody has brought up..  

All of Cooper’s demands regarding Mexico and the plane configuration were passed to the crew orally through Tina. 

What if Tina didn’t convey the instructions to the pilots exactly as Cooper intended. 

What if he initially wanted the dirty configuration applied when the airstairs were lowered inflight by the stew, not the entire flightpath. We only have Tina’s interpretation of Cooper’s demand to go by.

It is extremely unlikely Cooper made the initial demand of "no stops in US for any reason" knowing it was unachievable. It makes no sense for Cooper to make a demand that he knew would be rejected.

IMO, Cooper’s initial plan was to jump outside the US.. airstairs lowered inflight by Tina. She conveyed his instructions slightly inaccurately to the pilots and they went back to Cooper to negotiate a stop in Reno. When Reno was agreed to Cooper changed his plan to jump before the plane landed in Reno. That is when the airstairs down on takeoff came up. Cooper’s LZ wasn’t his initial plan, it was ad hoc.

 

Other factors,, Cooper wasn’t dressed for a PNW jump and Cooper's money demand was referred to as “US” currency by Tina and “American” currency by pilots… that suggests a foreign element. Why define the currency as US/American.. AND Cooper was described as swarthy, latin, Mexican in features and appearance..

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Surprise,, not really,

Georger and Robert99, the senior AMATEUR Cooper sleuths get their facts wrong again.. make up stuff, roll over and pat each other on the belly high on each others toxic arrogance.

Cooper demanded Mexico AFTER Al Lee was next to the plane AFTER the money was delivered AFTER the passengers left and AFTER the parachutes were onboard. 

 

Ignore these two, they have nothing to offer except misinformation and ignorance.

 

"The flight stairs were positioned at the front door of the aircraft and TINA left the airplane
and approached the car occupied by LEE, where she picked up the money, parachutes, food, maps and radio for cockpit communication."

 

 

 

[FLYJACK 654]

The FBI file..

Cooper demanded MEX

Crew suggested San Francisco

Cooper suggested Phoenix

Crew suggested Yuma or Reno 

Cooper chose Reno

 

It shows that there was no predetermined plan for Cooper to get the plane to land in Reno.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 146]

What is the purpose of the maps? Or is he just asking for maps for the pilots thinking they will need them. Seems like an odd request. We know he got the money and the parachutes. What happened to the maps?

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

What is the purpose of the maps? Or is he just asking for maps for the pilots thinking they will need them. Seems like an odd request. We know he got the money and the parachutes. What happened to the maps?

Yes, Robert99 and Georger got it completely wrong, as usual. They are stuck in 2010.

The maps were requested and brought on before Cooper made his MEX destination demand,, I have a vague recall about it.. not 100% sure but I think it was something to the effect that they were guessing where he might go including Alaska.. 

Boeing also sent the crew instructions for "how to get out of there",, was that related to crew escape or maps??

 

I think I have well over 100,000 pages of Cooper relating info now and it is getting tough to keep track of everything..

Edited May 6, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Robert99 writes this....

Flyjack is full of baloney.  The source he quotes is second or third hand information at best.  Or to put it another way, heresy.  Why would Cooper need a "radio for cockpit communication" since he had been having Tina use the interphone to communicate with the cockpit?

 

in reference to this post I made..

from FBI files..

"The flight stairs were positioned at the front door of the aircraft and TINA left the airplane and approached the car occupied by LEE, where she picked up the money, parachutes, food, maps and radio for cockpit communication."

this is also in the FBI files..

"By this time, only the money and parachutes had been brought on board. TINA then asked the hijacker if she should go out and get the maps, food and radio, to which he replied in the affirmative. She then went out and brought back the above items. It is noted that all of the crew was still on board at that time."

 

Robert99 doesn't realize that it comes from the FBI files, it isn't hearsay, I didn't make it up and I also wondered why the crew needed a radio.. (after communications were established with Al Lee) it proves both Robert99 and Georger are wrong, neither will admit it but both attack me for posting a fact right from the FBI files. This is complete insanity,, I post facts from the FBI files and get attacked by ignorant people..

and then there is Georger's passive aggressive retreat...

"FJ has spent more time digging thru files than almost anyone else and I applaud it when he finds things and shares his work - but I often don;t agree with his "interpretations" and his "extrapolations" ... which more often than not favor his suspect. He claims his approach is logical ... vs others who are "making stuff up". I get a kick out of that because FJ is as guilty of making stuff up as anyone, and perhaps more so. But he will back down, or simply retreat from a stand, or say it was only a theory, when confronted by facts! He has been forced to that position many times .... so nothing has changed since he surfaced in 2010. I do applaud his work and look forward to reading his posts, and I bring some of his posts here because they are worth sharing with others in order to get comment. We are far better off with him than without him in spite of his arrogance ... "

I didn't start in 2010, it was around 2013 and I took many years off when my father unexpectedly died.. not because of Weber as G had claimed.

Georger has never confronted my posts with facts, he lies, he lies because his case knowledge is poor and stale.. maybe he is just lazy.. but he is incapable of formulating a logical and coherent argument. His strategy to remain relevant is use innuendo to discredit others. He has done it to almost everyone related to the case..

"FLYJACK former enemy of Joe Weber and Snowmman, asserts:" Georger just posted this, another lie... this is what he does consistently. He is incapable of intellectually honest discourse. 

 

Neither of these two ever admit they are wrong which is often. Robert99 has poor case knowledge so makes up his own facts but Georger is unique, in addition to stale case knowledge he has no problem lying about the case or others.

both TOXIC and detrimental to the case overall. 

 

I have never seen a rational and coherent argument from these guys challenging any of my posts.. they are more interested in being right and winning an argument than pursuing the truth..

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Here are the maps and charts... well before Cooper's MEX demand

maps and charts, A and B charts, take whole set of cfarxxx craft maps with you ???

 

[dudeman17 270]

A question - 

A few days ago there was some discussion about gaps in the pilot/ground comm transcripts, and now questions about radios.

Could either of those have anything to do with communications between the airliner's pilots and the military chase planes?

[FLYJACK 654]

32 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

A question - 

A few days ago there was some discussion about gaps in the pilot/ground comm transcripts, and now questions about radios.

Could either of those have anything to do with communications between the airliner's pilots and the military chase planes?

No, not related

The redactions are probably just comms with other parties.. including military,, lots of cross chatter.. Ammerman claimed both UHF and VHF were operating simultaneously and he had to turn one off and on.. Robert99 thinks the redactions are evidence of a big conspiracy.. it isn't.

but a radio was delivered to the plane and Cooper knew about it,, why? who knows..

Edited May 6, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Air America Boeing 727 "kicker"

 

[FLYJACK 654]

The FBI narrative is that Tina brought the money and chutes onto the plane..

 

Larry Finegold claimed and FBI agent did,, but his story changed slightly. 

I am not really sure what to make of it.. a legit FBI coverup to hide info?  it is very odd. Why would Finegold make up the story?  but what about 302's..

 

https://mynorthwest.com/860897/investigators-think-theyve-identified-the-real-d-b-cooper/?

It was not long after the jet landed that Finegold became perhaps the first passenger to learn what was really going on. A man boarded the plane and came down the aisle. Finegold recognized him as an FBI agent he’d worked with before on federal cases.

“He said, ‘Larry, there’s a skyjacker on the plane, and we’re gonna get you off the plane in a couple minutes,’ then he walks [toward the rear of the cabin] because I think there was an exchange,” Finegold said. “This was happening behind me. [The FBI agent] was bringing on the money and the parachutes.”


https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/db-cooper-skyjacking-mystery-endures/470280013/

It was not long after the jet landed that Finegold became perhaps the first passenger to learn what was really going on. A man boarded the plane and came down the aisle. Finegold recognized him as an FBI agent he’d worked with before on federal cases.
“He said, ‘Larry, there’s a skyjacker on the plane, and we’re gonna get you off the plane in a couple minutes,’ then he walks [toward the rear of the cabin] because I think there was an exchange,” Finegold said. “This was happening behind me. [The FBI agent] was bringing on the money and the parachutes.”

 

Phone Interview with Larry Finegold Transcription: “Cooper” August 17, 2012

Finally, after a few minutes of what seemed like loading fuel on the plane, the front door opened, and they told people they could start exiting the plane – there was an announcement made – and the first person that I saw down as I, cause we were just de-planing out on the runway and going down just a set of stairs that they had rolled up, first person I saw that I recognized was an FBI agent who I knew because I was assisting the United States Attorney at the time, and I said to him, “John, what in the world’s going on?” and he said, “Larry, just keep going, there’s a skyjacker on the plane.” And that’s the first thing I knew about the skyjacking. 

[dudeman17 270]

3 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

A question - 

A few days ago there was some discussion about gaps in the pilot/ground comm transcripts, and now questions about radios.

Could either of those have anything to do with communications between the airliner's pilots and the military chase planes?

 

 

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

No, not related

The redactions are probably just comms with other parties.. including military,, lots of cross chatter.. Ammerman claimed both UHF and VHF were operating simultaneously and he had to turn one off and on.. Robert99 thinks the redactions are evidence of a big conspiracy.. it isn't.

but a radio was delivered to the plane and Cooper knew about it,, why? who knows..

I'm not sure I understand your answer correctly. The first word in your answer is "No". But your explanation of the redactions in the comm transcripts sounds more like 'Maybe". And your comment on the radio is 'it's not known', which also sounds like 'maybe'.

A follow up question - Is there anything in the comm transcripts that does document communication between the jetliner and the chase planes? Those pilots were all flying relative to each other, at night, I'm certain that they would be in probably almost constant communication. And when the jetliner pilots felt the pressure bump and suspected that Cooper might have jumped, I'm thinking that the chase pilots would be the first people they would tell.

[FLYJACK 654]

18 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

 

I'm not sure I understand your answer correctly. The first word in your answer is "No". But your explanation of the redactions in the comm transcripts sounds more like 'Maybe". And your comment on the radio is 'it's not known', which also sounds like 'maybe'.

A follow up question - Is there anything in the comm transcripts that does document communication between the jetliner and the chase planes? Those pilots were all flying relative to each other, at night, I'm certain that they would be in probably almost constant communication. And when the jetliner pilots felt the pressure bump and suspected that Cooper might have jumped, I'm thinking that the chase pilots would be the first people they would tell.

No, the radio sent to plane is unrelated.

There is no documented comms directly between 305 and chase planes.

Here,, Ammerman was directing the chase plane and talking to 305..

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by FLYJACK

[dudeman17 270]

5 miles out? I didn't realize they were so far away. I was thinking that the chase planes were there to see Cooper when he jumped, to locate his landing zone. That sounds more like they were there to locate the wreckage if Cooper blew the thing up.

[FLYJACK 654]

On 3/22/2020 at 7:23 PM, FLYJACK said:

Of course Portland was tracking NORJAK..

 

 

Western flightpath is BUNK.. 

besides Portland tracking #305, the crew, the chase planes, the AF and SAGE, the flight recorder all consistent.  ALL HAD to be independently WRONG to get the flightpath wrong. 

Western flightpath is goal seeking nonsense.