DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

when have you seen such a small serial number. even Steinthal has 2 digits a dash followed by  5 digits. same with Switlik and other companies dating back to the 40's. 60-9707 doesn't match either. 

That is because 60-9707 is probably a contract number and not a serial number.

[FLYJACK 654]

34 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

That is because 60-9707 is probably a contract number and not a serial number.

Like herding cats....

If you read my reply above,, Shutter's assumption is debunked. 

Please, don't let facts stop you from making up stuff.

Edited March 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[Robert99 37]

44 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Like herding cats....

If you read my reply above,, Shutter's assumption is debunked. 

Please, don't let facts stop you from making up stuff.

Flyjack, have you EVER seen a military parachute?

[mrshutter45 21]

 60-9707 doesn't match either....I never said it's not the serial number. I said it doesn't match. I stated 226 is not a serial number. I've seen Steinthals without the year as well...just 5 digits. 

what's inside of Hayden's chute. should I ask the NY times?

Hayden said a military chute is inside the container. who makes canopies for the military? 

misinformation is a factor here. that's why I'm trying to get access to Haydens chute. 

any more wise cracks G? 

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, you don't know what's going on. I would never suggest office people to "pop that chute" I will pay the cost of a certified rigger to perform the task. the wheels are already in motion. 

they will not have to find a rigger. no transport...anything else?

Edited March 15, 2020 by mrshutter45

[dudeman17 267]

General info...

Repacks these days are usually about $60-$80, but I bet that some older rigger would do it for free just to get a chance to check it out himself. Try Skydive Kapowsin.

Unless R99 knows differently about specific older military gear, AAD's on rigs are in addition to, not instead of, manual ripcords.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - A lot of these details about old rigs that you're hashing over could be cleared up by asking in the Gear and Rigging section.

---

So, Robert, did you talk to the Sky Sports guy?

[mrshutter45 21]

Thanks Dudeman.

Shelton is pretty close to Tacoma. none of the documents mention AAD's. it's a pioneer rig with a military chute inside(actual rig seen below)

The point is not to "take a peek inside" it will tell us what type of canopy is inside. this is how it's done when you have available evidence. everything will be well documented for future use. WSHS will do nothing but prepare the parachute for transport or possibly have it done there. it's an opportunity that should not be passed up...

Edited March 15, 2020 by mrshutter45

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

Thanks Dudeman.

Shelton is pretty close to Tacoma. none of the documents mention AAD's. it's a pioneer rig with a military chute inside(actual rig seen below)

The point is not to "take a peek inside" it will tell us what type of canopy is inside. this is how it's done when you have available evidence. everything will be well documented for future use. WSHS will do nothing but prepare the parachute for transport or possibly have it done there. it's an opportunity that should not be passed up...

McChord chutes were AAD or static line per media reports, not Hayden's.

 

Everybody has this completely screwed up...

 

The data from the packing card found inside the back chute left on the plane does not match the packing card for the back chute returned to Hayden. Both were packed May 21, 1971 by Cossey which matches the FBI Hayden's claims.

It is that simple.

Both of Hayden's back chutes are accounted for AFTER Cooper jumped. Cooper did not use either of Hayden's chutes..

Shutter, Blevins and R99, none of your arguments undermine that. They are all desperate confirmation bias riddled red herrings. 

 

From there we need to figure out which chute he did take.

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

11 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, have you EVER seen a military parachute?

Yes, Iv'e seen Hayden's chute at the WSHM in person.. have you?

Why do you ask? Are trying to discredit me.. so you can reject the fact I posted earlier which you don't accept.

Steinthal chutes did have S/N's with 5 digits after the year. FACT. Shutter's argument BUSTED.

Are you interested in pursuing the truth or winning arguments?

It seems the latter for some of the so called Cooper sleuths...

 

Shutter and Blevins refuse answer this question, maybe you can..

Which of Hayden's chutes did Cooper jump with? The one left on the plane or the one now at the WSHM?

 

.

Edited March 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[mrshutter45 21]

Flyjack, you are too argumentative to discuss anything. I never said that wasn't a serial number and you are over reacting and Blasting "BUSTED" then insulting with anyone who disagree's (like Georger)

did you see the data card from the plane? do you know what canopy is inside Hayden's chute?

I haven't ONCE insulted anyone on this board since this started. who is trying to gain access to the chute? you read far to much into things and distort them. I'm not doing this to "win an argument" 

the FBI has so many versions describing the chutes. the best way to figure some of it out is looking at one of the remaining chutes. 

[FLYJACK 654]

50 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Flyjack, you are too argumentative to discuss anything. I never said that wasn't a serial number and you are over reacting and Blasting "BUSTED" then insulting with anyone who disagree's (like Georger)

did you see the data card from the plane? do you know what canopy is inside Hayden's chute?

I haven't ONCE insulted anyone on this board since this started. who is trying to gain access to the chute? you read far to much into things and distort them. I'm not doing this to "win an argument" 

the FBI has so many versions describing the chutes. the best way to figure some of it out is looking at one of the remaining chutes. 

Nonsense.

Your claim is BUSTED, it is a FACT that Steinthal S/N's had 5 digits after the year. I was responding to R99's ridiculous denial.. AFTER I POSTED THE FACTS

I am not the one with the distortions..

 

I have to run around wasting my time to disprove your bogus assumptions... then R99 still denies it..

and you blame me..

Where is the.. hey Fly thanks for taking the time to proving my bogus assumption is invalid.. no, I get a personal attack.

A few of you need to retire from the Cooper game,, you've lost perspective.

 

 

 

[mrshutter45 21]

where is the personal attacks coming from me? 

[CooperNWO305 146]

Flyjack: That would be crazy if the parachute that was found was Coopers, but that the FBI was looking for a different chute.

Case Closed replayed yesterday on History.  On Friday 3/13 the Wiki page on Cooper had 2,449 visitors.  Yesterday there were 27,781.  Part of that has to do with people staying in due to COVID-19, but the point here is that when there are shows on TV about Cooper, people get interested.

[mrshutter45 21]

A rigger has been found...thanks again Dudeman...

[FLYJACK 654]

2 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Flyjack: That would be crazy if the parachute that was found was Coopers, but that the FBI was looking for a different chute.

Case Closed replayed yesterday on History.  On Friday 3/13 the Wiki page on Cooper had 2,449 visitors.  Yesterday there were 27,781.  Part of that has to do with people staying in due to COVID-19, but the point here is that when there are shows on TV about Cooper, people get interested.

I posted info earlier but the Hayden chutes are only one conflicting dimension here.. there is another conflicting dimension, the colour.

Cossey rejected found chutes not sage green harness/ sage green container's...  the chutes described in the FBI files were not sage green/sage green... they were both olive drab or one tan one olive drab..

IMO, the FBI is hiding something about the chutes, could be info they initially want to hold back or a massive error they made going forward. It feels like the old soviet "active measures", release conflicting info so we can't determine the truth.

The FBI's primary objective is to maintain the positive public perception of the FBI, it isn't to solve cases. If they screwed up they'll cover it up.

Everybody needs to remember that FBI 302's are not CONCLUSIONS, they are investigative process notes.. 

[mrshutter45 21]

[FLYJACK 654]

https://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/

"Further, Norman emphatically declares that he never spoke directly to the FBI during the parachute delivery nor subsequent investigation, yet, the Bureau’s document claims that their detailed parachute information comes from Norman."

"In addition, Barry supports Norman’s claim that as far as they know, both back chutes were identical.  In fact, Norman seemed a bit dismayed about bureaucratic in-accuracies when I read aloud the FBI description of the two back parachutes and their many differences.

 However, Barry openly wonders if the FBI received four back parachutes that day – two from Norman that were identical, and two from Earl Cossey that were not."

 

Cossey claimed sage green container/ sage green harness was used by Cooper.. he rejected remnants with sage green harness.

In early FBI docs the chute taken was always described as olive drab container,, the Sage Green came from Cossey.

 

We have a two dimensional conflict,, Sage Green/ Sage Green doesn't match Hayden's chutes and doesn't match early reports of chute taken.. 

If Cossey had the chute taken wrong and he was the go to with found remnants for analysis then his determinations are bogus. 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

A rigger has been found...thanks again Dudeman...

Sounds great...

If the chute matches the packing card, we have a problem..

If the chute doesn't match the packing card we still have a problem...

[FLYJACK 654]

21 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

A chute remnant was found in the river (blue line) between Heisson Bridge and Lucia falls.. the FBI dismissed it. The (red line) is the railway is right next to the river where the chute was found. Heisson General Store right on the railway line is most likely the store that had the break-in Norjak evening. The (wide black line) is the approximate flightpath about 4 miles from the Heisson Bridge between the 20:12 at 20:13 time mark.

this map?? Georger...

"** credit to FLYJACK for his current updated version of my old map published at DZ a decade ago - its nice to see FJ copying my old work without giving credit -"

I just constructed this map in Google Earth, THE ENTIRE THING, it isn't your 10 year old map which I have never seen.

You are delusional.

Edit ,, and you are a serial liar Warner.

 

It wasn't 2010, it was around 2013 when I started on DZ. Jo Weber messaged me pushing Duane as Cooper on me but I rejected it. She fabricated the "Bulljax" story and posted it to discredit me and get me kicked off DZ.. this was my introduction to the handful of psychos involved in the Cooper case.

I left DZ and the Cooper game when my father suddenly and unexpectedly passed away.. not due to Jo Weber.

When I came back to the Cooper game several years later, DZ was closed.. Shutter's site was open so I went there. 

 

That is were the new round of psychos emerged..

There MeyerLouie, R99 and (Georger) consistently lied to discredit me...  all of you tried get me banned. I get it you wanted to control the Cooper narrative and didn't want disruptors.. except you guys haven't moved the ball in a decade.

You and a few others are why I don't even post most of the Cooper info I have and I told Shutter to delete my account. You just aren't worthy.

The Cooper game has its nasty, jealous liars and frauds.. whose only contribution is to discredit others with lies and innuendo.

 

It still amazes me that somebody can lie repeatedly without any sense of personal responsibility or conscience.

I can only conclude that you are threatened and fear being irrelevant... newsflash Georger, you are irrelevant, you have been for years..

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[Robert99 37]

8 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

Thanks Dudeman.

Shelton is pretty close to Tacoma. none of the documents mention AAD's. it's a pioneer rig with a military chute inside(actual rig seen below)

The point is not to "take a peek inside" it will tell us what type of canopy is inside. this is how it's done when you have available evidence. everything will be well documented for future use. WSHS will do nothing but prepare the parachute for transport or possibly have it done there. it's an opportunity that should not be passed up...

From a detailed look at the parachute in the above picture, it appears that the WSHM Cooper parachute is not an NB6 in any shape or form.

The rip chord is definitely not an NB6 type rip chord.  Plus I have some doubts about the harness itself.

The container and pilot chute are definitely not NB6 types either since the pilot chute is in the wrong location for an NB6.

The container also seems to be to large for a 26 foot conical canopy so I suspect that it is a standard 28 foot canopy in that container.

Shutter, if the WSHM agrees to let a rigger open the parachute, ask him to take a lot of pictures of ever piece of the rig and record all the printing on everything.  Be sure to get pictures of he canopy skirt rim and whether it is tape or shroud lines that go from the rim to the apex.  And make sure it all gets posted online.

Further, while the rigger may put everything back in the pack, it is highly improbable that he will sign off on it as being suitable for use.  That is, he will probably not put his seal on the rip chord thread and will probably list the reason on the packing card for not signing off on it.  That thing is probably 60 years old at this point.

[FLYJACK 654]

41 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

From a detailed look at the parachute in the above picture, it appears that the WSHM Cooper parachute is not an NB6 in any shape or form.

The rip chord is definitely not an NB6 type rip chord.  Plus I have some doubts about the harness itself.

The container and pilot chute are definitely not NB6 types either since the pilot chute is in the wrong location for an NB6.

The container also seems to be to large for a 26 foot conical canopy so I suspect that it is a standard 28 foot canopy in that container.

Shutter, if the WSHM agrees to let a rigger open the parachute, ask him to take a lot of pictures of ever piece of the rig and record all the printing on everything.  Be sure to get pictures of he canopy skirt rim and whether it is tape or shroud lines that go from the rim to the apex.  And make sure it all gets posted online.

Further, while the rigger may put everything back in the pack, it is highly improbable that he will sign off on it as being suitable for use.  That is, he will probably not put his seal on the rip chord thread and will probably list the reason on the packing card for not signing off on it.  That thing is probably 60 years old at this point.

The harness is a Pioneer "quick fit" date April 1957..

 

more pics here..

https://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/

[mrshutter45 21]

I thought you left? I will use it any time I wish...straight off of Google images...thanks for letting us know it was yours...

that's because you were banned and had no rights to anything....

always gotta start crap...

 

actually, the photo was taken by Bill Wagner...any credit given by you? 

Edited March 15, 2020 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

deal with it.....this falls under the fair use clause...

[mrshutter45 21]

I had nothing to do with Sheridan or Snow.....take it up with them. all you do is stir up old news...you constantly lie telling boards you are done only to return days later like nothing happened...speaking of lies...you told this board you spoke with someone from sky sports? is that what made you run away? 

Edited March 16, 2020 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

Guess who helped him finish the book to where it is today. need a hint?