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DB Cooper

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"Either he's D.B. Cooper, or it's the biggest set of coincidences in history"

this seems to be the case with just about every Cooper candidate. you all have similar stories revolving around the jump, description etc. but fail to put him on the plane or give a history of exactly where the candidate was on November 24, 1971. camping in the area is a stretch because nobody has ever proven this to be the exact jump area, or the planned jump area.

we think Cooper jumped at 8:13 or 8:10 as the transcripts read. Rataczak claims he jumped 10-15 minutes after the last contact with Cooper at 8:05. this gives a time frame of 8:15 to 8:20...the plane is over Portland at this time frame of 8:20. camp KC is getting further away from the drop zone.

you want to talk about coincidences, Vicki's father is loaded with them. she isn't on here everyday pushing the fact of these coincidences making here father Cooper though.....

so I would say all candidates are either Cooper or a bunch of coincidences.....B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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I came here today to provide some information NOT to argue about logic.

1. The ankle boots or shoes came from this thread or from Tina or the FBI.
2. DAMN RIGHT I remember giving stuff away. I am the one who had to go thru the closet and put each item in a box. Deciding if I wanted to keep this or that as a momento. OBVIOUSLY U never had to dispose of THINGS after someone close to you died! That was a VERY INSENSITIVE thing to say.
3. THE DATE was established by the temperatues and the Englebert concerts in Tahoe.

Now for the statement:

This entire thing as esculated way beyond Cooper and the incident in 1971. NOTHING anyone would believe if I was the one stating them - so I will leave that to Others. WE need changes made in AMERICA, but I think all our forefathers created has been lost forever.

In 1971 (not referring to the skyjacking) - WA hid secrets from the public and there were those who risked their own personal freedom to make Government more transparent. It is happening all over again. Any one making a stand against the dirty politics in America end up spending their lives defending themselves.

Cooper was a common criminal, but beginning to see what his part was in all of this. Not even sure what SIDE he was on - Good guy or Bad guy!

Duane made a trip in 1969/1970 to N.Y. or D.C. to give a statement to a writer with the name of Anderson (who died a few yrs ago). Our government confiscated all of his files after he died - not just those on certain subjects, but all of them. Duane was already dead when Anderson died.

I remember the things Duane told me about this man before he died (they were over my head) and I did not know Duane to be an avid reader or history buff...then I thought well he just lived those times and it was the papers and the media. I realize now I was aware of secret things supposely not public knowledge.

I am not a writer nor knowledgeable of many things. I try to be consistent, but 17 yrs is a long time and I field things around and I DO NOT use NOTES. I get caught up in the bickering. If every post I made was planned - that would be a conspiracy!

Too painful to sit here and defend myself day after day after day.
NO one in my position could tell the same exact story over and over. I am emotional and allow prior postings to affect me. I enter into to discussions and then I get picked on about the vergbage - without looking at the multiple posts in which that was not the verbage used! I am not on trial here - but what is on trial is the freedom to know what the government is doing behind our backs. Yrs ago they died in accident or had a mysterious illness.

40 yrs ago the media and going public saved a man who stood up against the odds...today it is the internet and the media. Will it be another 40 yrs before certain entites stand accountable for their actions?
























.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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mrshutter45

Jo, the FBI has more credibility than you do. I can also use your statement as a "opinion" where in the FBI description for Cooper does it claim boots?

"I was told - ankle shoes or boots." I can't believe anyone remotely claiming Cooper had boots on!!!



WHAT Ckret stated HAS no credibility - all you have to do is see what YOU did with the JEFFERSON FILE - why didn't he give it to me. All I was able to get on line was a few paragraphs and what the woman in records sent me. I have all of the correspondence.
The actual file you presented was NOT there!

She was very helpful and told me I would have to contact the attorneys. They were no long in business and no one knew where the files would be from 1966.

Ckret says one thing about the shoes and others say another - ONLY GO By WHAT THE Stewardesses told the FBI in 1971 - NOT what a specific agent claimed. Remember how the FBI lie to me! I also know Ckret was NOT honest while he was here. Be sure you use FBI files and not reporters or others. You might also contact Roy Rose - I understand he is still alive.
Ask him if he REMEMBERS spending almost 2 hours with Doug Pasternak of the U.S. New and World Reports and if he remembers what he told Doug about the mouth?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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You do know that he just couldn't hand the file over, right? Even if he did posses the file, he had no authority to give it to you.

Him not handing it over BOLSTERS his credibility as he followed the regs for evidence correctly.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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1. The ankle boots or shoes came from this thread or from Tina or the FBI.
2. DAMN RIGHT I remember giving stuff away. I am the one who had to go thru the closet and put each item in a box. Deciding if I wanted to keep this or that as a momento. OBVIOUSLY U never had to dispose of THINGS after someone close to you died! That was a VERY INSENSITIVE thing to say.
3. THE DATE was established by the temperatues and the Englebert concerts in Tahoe.


if you can't explain where the reference came from or explain where it came from it brings it back to a "opinion" when I state things to people I show a link or document to help back up what I'm saying.

you now have to claim the dates in Washington by temperatures, or a Humperdinky concert? how do you suppose the FBI would look at this?

nothing INSENSITIVE was said Jo. I have had plenty of deaths in my time to deal with. I'm in my 50's Jo. I have seen what cancer can do to a body. I know what it looks like to see someone killed at close range. this has nothing to do with the changes in your story Jo.

when you put a story out for this many years you can expect someone is going to look into what you are claiming. I'm saying that this does not add up to what you are claiming or saying. so, you can either prove this to be incorrect, or simply ignore the allegations. very simple.

until I see further proof. I am calling the trip in 79 into question. do you expect me to believe you were there by word, or documentation? it shouldn't be that hard to prove Jo? and no reason to get upset with this either Jo.

if the FBI was to call you in next week, don't you think they will want to see dates, times and documentation of things you say are facts? you going to have to do a littler better than temperatures and concerts to prove your case......
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Quote


I'm sorry Jo, but I find it hard to believe you can remember someone throwing something away, but fail to give proper dates and times?




Jo STATES: I remember what I SEE I do NOT remember dates or numbers.
Ask anyone who knows me. I knew about when it was late Sept or early OCT. I didn't have a specfic date.

I do REMEMBER THE thing I told you about that I saw in WA. The places he took me - NO ONE CAN TAKE my memory from me and DEFINITLY NOT YOU!

I do BETTER talking to people - when I am writing things I get lost. It is HARD to make yourself understood. LONG posts don't get read and then you go back to finish what you are trying to say and do not know were you left off.




Quote


2011:

Duane and I made 4 stops . One East of Winterly Park (he opened the trunk and went down to the water and told me to stay in the car) he opened the trunk before and after...this is where the track where. The second stop was at that big Green tank along the river West of Winterly (but I got out of the car at the green tank with its little dock). Duane told me what the tank was for, but I forgot.



So far I agree with that...this was the 1st stop across from the PDX and West of the PDX. I couldn't see the PDX, but he told me it was there and it was just beyond the trees.

Then he takes me West and goes down to the river a second time - this is where the GREEN tank was.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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mrshutter45

1


until I see further proof. I am calling the trip in 79 into question. do you expect me to believe you were there by word, or documentation? it shouldn't be that hard to prove Jo? and no reason to get upset with this either Jo.

if the FBI was to call you in next week, don't you think they will want to see dates, times and documentation of things you say are facts? you going to have to do a littler better than temperatures and concerts to prove your case......



The ONLY thing with the TAX report as most of the back up stuff was gone yrs ago is a stub from Family Life with NO date on it.

WEBER NIGHT ON TOWN'REINBURSEMENT FOR
"NIGHT ON THE TOWN"
CONTEST AWARD $50.
ACCOUNT # 507056
AND ANOTHER NUMBER 073310.

No yr or date.


The trip was paid for by the company and he probably had all of the back up stuff, but not yrs later. I believe there was more with them when he died - but I cleaned thing out.

The report is 1979 and he died in 1995.

I went to the Albums and the pictures are there - on the back I have written fall 1979 on the salt lake, the seattle and then a Xmas party that yr. NO stamped dates.

There are 50 plus yrs of negatives and it will be hard to find the right batch all these yrs later - bet they do NOT have dates either. They are very tiny and none of the packages are labeled. - I have to use a lamp and magnifier - I can't do that anymore. They are just there encase I ever have a fire - so they there will be some family history for the kids. I went thur them YRS ago one by one....guess I shoud have labeled them then.

Most of the people who where at the meeting are deceased no. Phil an his wife were there, but I understand he died. Phil was the one who ended up going to Spokane and whose Father Duane knew and who Duane asked about. Phil was about my age and his father was probably older than Duane. Obviously the 2 men knew each other...the Father lived in Spokane. Duane asked if his father still xxxxxx and Phil said NO he's too old for that now...

So if they want physical evidence other than the ring he bought me which has no date or ID on it. My daughter knows we went to WA, but she did NOT go with me. She was 17 at the time - who knows what a 17 yr old remembers besides parties and school and getting grounded.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I was editing the post as you posted. No dates on the picture - just me having wrote fall 1979 on them.
Absolutely nothing that is dated with a stamped date - not one IOTA!

The negative I doubt have dates either! SO I guess I am SCREWED!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

Been reviewing many of the recent posts discussing the descriptions of the hijacker, other things. I don't know. Mucklow told the FBI, according to Geoff Gray, that she was five-eight. Yet...when I see her in pictures I wonder if that's true. She looks about as tall as Gayla, who is five-five. I don't know...maybe Mucklow is five-eight, but I wouldn't mind seeing her employment app for NWA or a pic of her current drivers' license. Just to make sure.

...............

I also have a 'trust issue' going with at least some of the things said officially on the case by the Seattle FBI. Touting Marla Cooper as a viable witness, for example, and then later shutting the door on the whole thing. Why would they do that? How did they get that so wrong? And the Amboy chute question, of course. They basically swept that one under the carpet within a week, and some of the investigation into that doesn't make sense. In one statement, the FBI spokesperson tells the media the chute is being examined at the lab in Seattle. But the very next morning they drag it up to Cossey's place in the trunk of a car, show it to him, and he says it isn't Cooper's. The day after that, the FBI declares it isn't from the hijacking and that no more will be said about it. They gave no details on any results supposedly obtained by the FBI lab, either. They didn't even bother giving any details why it couldn't be Cooper's. The whole thing just smelled to high heaven, in my opinion. They topped that one off by not allowing Citizen Sleuths to examine it, and although they initially claimed outside experts were consulted, we find out later they just called a couple of people on the phone. At least they said they did. No 'experts' ever examined it in person except for Cossey, and that only from the trunk of a car. If you'll excuse me, but WTF is that? :)

Quote

To paraphrase from the film Apocalypse Now:
'There was so much bullshit (in the Cooper case) you needed wings to stay above it...'



And you've just propagated more of it.

Look at pictures of Tina alone and next to others. She's definitely taller than 5'5. Kenny.....not so much.
The PRIMARY witness statements were taken down before the plane left Seattle and agreed on the basic parameters.
The other passengers were likely not in as good a position to judge height - since they only saw him walking down the aisle - if they were even looking. Other than that he was primarily in his seat.
They would've had to turn around to stare - and from most of their initial statements - they said they didn't even know what was going on so they had no reason to take note of him.

And I'm sorry, but I'll never understand the "I know something that y'all don't know" crap that people unleash on this forum. It's right in there with "owning rights" to actual events. One more thing that makes the eyes roll.

The whole FBI/ Cossey / chute events/timeline you mention above is off and doesn't contain all of the information from press reports that the FBI gave or from information that special agent Carr put on this forum.
But you either don't comprehend what you read - or you just don't want to entertain anything that doesn't fit with your take on things ---- or--- to paraphrase Apocalyspse Now, "What the hell do you know about surfing? You're from g**d*** New Jersey." B|:D

Whatever the case may be, not gonna try to convince you since a simple search would enlighten - but I will note AGAIN -- for the record and everyone else -- that what you posted above about Cossey and the chute is inaccurate as to all press reports and as to what was posted on this forum by special agent Carr. Just sayin :)
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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skyjack71

I was editing the post as you posted. No dates on the picture - just me having wrote fall 1979 on them.
Absolutely nothing that is dated with a stamped date - not one IOTA!

The negative I doubt have dates either! SO I guess I am SCREWED!



it's not the end of the world Jo, I just think this would give you some validation to this. keep looking, but don't get all bent out shape looking.....
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

"Either he's D.B. Cooper, or it's the biggest set of coincidences in history"

this seems to be the case with just about every Cooper candidate. you all have similar stories revolving around the jump, description etc. but fail to put him on the plane or give a history of exactly where the candidate was on November 24, 1971. camping in the area is a stretch because nobody has ever proven this to be the exact jump area, or the planned jump area.

we think Cooper jumped at 8:13 or 8:10 as the transcripts read. Rataczak claims he jumped 10-15 minutes after the last contact with Cooper at 8:05. this gives a time frame of 8:15 to 8:20...the plane is over Portland at this time frame of 8:20. camp KC is getting further away from the drop zone.

you want to talk about coincidences, Vicki's father is loaded with them. she isn't on here everyday pushing the fact of these coincidences making here father Cooper though.....

so I would say all candidates are either Cooper or a bunch of coincidences.....B|



Well, I suppose there are a couple of coincidences regarding KC that are more than coincidence. For example, we can prove through bank records that KC was broke just before the hijacking, but that he spent five times his normal yearly income in cash within eight months after the hijacking. Maybe more. That can be proven easily. Also, after five interviews where Margie Geestman insists that her ex was involved in the hijacking...on the sixth interview she finally admits Kenny was probably the guy with him. I know that was hard for her to do. She was best friends with Kenny right up until the day he died.

Just after she did Interview Five Denial, that's when she sends me the letter written in green ink, the letter she wrote after I left her a proof copy of Blast, revised. She says in the letter:

Quote

'Even if Kenny was aboard the plane that day, he wasn't hijacking it. He was just doing his job as the purser...'



Uh, okay. Sure. Can we do another interview, I ask. Sure. Next interview she admits Kenny was with Geestman that week. Helen Jones and her daughter say the same thing. Mrs Geestman adds: 'No matter what he may have done, he (Kenny) was still a nice guy'. I'm sure he was.

When you couple that with Mr Geestman telling History Channel that he thinks Kenny could be the hijacker...well, I don't think he would have offered that up had he known three people had put him with Kenny at the same time. Funny he didn't offer an alibi for Kenny instead. Whatever...

My guess (if KC and Geestman were involved) on how it went down goes like this:

The two of them plan it over the summer. They don't tell Margie Geestman or anyone else. Mr Geestman picks up the station wagon in Elba, WA and the Airstream from a bank repo sale. He leaves the trailer at his shop property in Oakville, brings the wagon back to Bonney Lake. Six weeks later he drives down to Sumner and picks up Kenny. This is either Monday the 22nd or Tuesday the 23rd, we're not sure. They go to Oakville, probably to check out the trailer hasn't been stolen or broken into. On Wednesday, Geestman drives Kenny to Portland and drops him off. Plane is hijacked. Hard to say where Geestman might have waited, but we doubt it was in the woods since it was November and the FS roads are snowed in above 1500' generally. They meet sometime after the hijacking, maybe a call from a pay phone. Geestman shows up in Bonney Lake the following Monday or Tuesday after the hijacking. Mrs Geestman is furious. She says so. Geestman won't tell her where he was, who he was with, or what they were doing. ('Don't worry about it,' he says.) About two weeks later someone snaps a cute pic of Christiansen walking into his apartment dressed in a suit and carrying a paper bag and a briefcase. Six weeks after the hijacking, Helen Jones runs into Kenny at the Sumner Laundromat, where he admits he didn't show to Thanksgiving dinner because he was with Geestman. Eighteen weeks after the hijacking, Kenny drops $5,000 in cash on Geestman's sister so she and her four kids can move from Mr Geestman's house. Geestman actually is the one who delivers the money, although he denies that later. This is probably the point where Mrs Geestman figured out where the two of them had gone that week. Seven months after the hijacking, Kenny buys a house in Bonney Lake for cash from the same couple where Geestman served as the Best Man at their wedding, although later he denies knowing anything about the sale. The following Thanksgiving, both Kenny and Mr Geestman DO show for Thanksgiving at the Jones' place, and later she says she noticed Kenny was now doing quite well financially. Years later, Geestman's sister ID's the tie-clip and says she suspected KC was Cooper almost from the start. Mr Geestman says in an interview he couldn't have been involved 'cause Foss Tugs had him out for months at a time. Foss says that's a lie. Mrs Geestman cashes out her ranch and moves out of town after the Decoded show and the book come out. No forwarding address. And this, and that...

(*feels Excedrin headache coming on* B| )


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RobertMBlevins


And this, and that...

(*feels Excedrin headache coming on* B| )



I can't believe you repeated all that stuff again. LOL...that would give me a headache too.
First you don't know when that picture was taken, second - like the comics on the wall - you have no pics or proof that KC had a tie clip like that, or ever wore a wig. Third you're having people recount exact conversatons and thoughts from 40 years ago. Read up on memory and how fallible that is when you start discounting primary eye witnesses - I'm thinking I'd put instant eye witness testimony against 40 year old memory any day, but that's just me. The KC story actually started out kind of plausible - until you dig a little deeper and find there's way too many holes, convenient conjecture, and plausible alternate explanations for all of your coincidences. Sucks, but we can't all be Cooper......but.look on the bright side - you got your own little slice of immortality as long as the history channel has reruns or your tivo holds up. ;):)
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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it's my understanding that Tina was 5'8"..........

a post from Farf...2009

The Cooper 'bar of expertise.' Cooper is a veteran, jump trained, pilot and bomb maker because he jumped out of a plane and used flaps and opened a briefcase. OK then, I must be a plumber since I used a toilet today and a mechanic since driving a car and computer maker after displaying a laptop. Perhaps the hallowed halls were such expertise is awarded should consider accreditation. Is there evidence that Cooper was anything more than lucky? However I am willing to credit him with the ability to smoke where his drinking had noob written all over.

Re-enter the Purser. He looks like Cooper, great; now ask Tina. He worked for Northwest, ah-ha, yes, of course, why didn't we see it? Because is was never a serious parameter before and little more than a coincidence now. He was a mechanic too, on airplanes!! That fits perfectly with Cooper performing a phase inspection of the fuselage. He went through jump training in the army. Again, as this was not a requirement to be Cooper, I don't see the value beyond coincidence.

Christiansen did NOT smoke Raleigh's. Did NOT drink bourbon exclusively. Did NOT speak about bombs, air stairs or hijackings. Was NOT tall or heavy enough, dark enough, skin and eyes. But he sure looked like that black and white drawing from Mucklow's description except for those other things, he is a 95% match. In fact the D in Cooper's name is Dorian as he keeps getting younger with each investigation.

The pre-requisites to be Cooper should include not being seen since 1971 for starters. Why have all of the suspects decided to hang around and live such pedestrian lives with such dark and sinister pasts? Dan Coopers or Walter Mittys? If it was a relative I suspected, I would want them investigated as quietly as possible followed by relief after having done my civic duty. I don't see myself insisting an uncle, dead or alive, as having to be some criminal.

As Hunter S Thompson said before deciding he had enough; "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

Cooper has been imitated many times, has been a pilot, has been jump trained, has been a Northwest employee and has been a transsexual. For all of this and more, Cooper has never been boring.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

it's my understanding that Tina was 5'8"..........



Yeah, mine too. Apparently, her's too. Robert seems to think she looked more like 5'5''.
Hey - why not change TIna's height - why should she be immune to making up shit as we go along? :S
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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smokin99

***it's my understanding that Tina was 5'8"..........



Yeah, mine too. Apparently, her's too. Robert seems to think she looked more like 5'5''.
Hey - why not change TIna's height - why should she be immune to making up shit as we go along? :S

would could start calling her Tena Mucklow B|;):ph34r:
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Skyjack71

Jo your point 1) is very biased and if you were truthful, your Duane does not look like the sketches nor does his hair. Sheridan does look like the sketch and had the olive skin color too (not a sun tan).
Your point 2) on shoes you are trying to discredit the "loafers" Sheridan is wearing as not being loafers but in the Nordstrom catalog under loafers you can find them with laces too. Wish we could show the photo of Sheridan's loafers to Tina and she could shed some light on if they are a match. They are loafers to me and what I would expect Nordstrom to call them.

What is really interesting is Sheridan making his demo jump for the Boeing Skydiving Club in the Suit, shirt,narrow black tie and loafers just like DB used and before NORJAK.

Jo, Duane never jumped dressed like that!!!

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

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mrshutter45

" I wonder what happened to the money in that paper bag?"

Jo, you can't possibly answer that question without any facts.
the facts we know are Duane said it was trash. you are trying

to say it was money, even with self admission of not knowing
what was in the bag.

a theory is based on facts. since you don't know what was in
the bag. the theory becomes speculation.

Quote



In Jo's FIRST ITERATION, highly published in the Halls of Delphi
back in 1412, Jo didn't know WHAT was in the paper bag.

Subsequent recall and research with RobertMBlevins helpjng,
has expanded and confirmed:

(a) 1 Big Mac
(b) three bundles of cash - correction! 2.5857464846 bundles.
(c) bottle of Malox
(d) ten women's purses
(e) bottle of aspirin
(f) 2 NWA flight maps
(g) lock of JFK's hair
(h) King Arthur's billfold
(i) Tina's childhood photo
(j) two more bottles of aspirin
(j) Elvis' billfold
(k) partidge in a pear tree.

So the obvious question is: If the money turned up at Tina Bar
where is the rest of the loot?

:D

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RobertMBlevins

*********Well, if the bills didn't come from the water and the water was only a few feet away from where they were found...



They didn't quite make it but other packets of the bills, and Cooper himself, may have made it into the Columbia. If they did, their remains may have made a few circuits of the Pacific by now.

Robert99

Round and round you go. (again) Your theory doesn't fit the known evidence. Approximately three bundles of the ransom are found on a riverbank. Now people are saying they were never in the river. In addition, there is NO evidence showing an overflight near Tena Bar, which is approximately four miles WEST of the Interstate 5 freeway. There is also the allegations of the crew, who worked with NWA and the FBI to select the alleged dropzone, which is far from Tena Bar. Miles away, in fact. If you couple that with Money Did Not Wash Downstream in the Columbia, and It Wasn't Dredged to the Spot, that only leaves human intervention. Beyond all the other things Kaye says, he leans toward this idea the most. You can tell this by the things he has said publicly. And I think he may be right.

On the subject of the rubber band tests, since Kaye did not get to see the originals that crumbled on the money, it is difficult for Kaye (in my opinion only) to determine how long the money was actually at Tena Bar before it was found. The money was subject to exposure to chemicals, handling, and stored for years before his team were allowed to examine it. And beyond all of that...your theory depends on the death of Cooper in the jump...in a spot allegedly miles from the flight path and the search area agreed upon back in 1971. Not only can you not prove those things to support your theory, they actually go AGAINST what is known on the case. Lastly, if everything you say is true about the Tena Bar money...then how come all the researchers say the money had not been exposed to the elements for more than a few years at most? Maybe Cooper took some of the money to Purgatory (I don't figure him for Heaven :) ) and returned to drop it off at Tena Bar say...around 76-79?

Shutter says in part:

Quote

'Blevins wants to change the description of Cooper as well claiming stress among other things. this is typical with an average crime that typically will last seconds, so descriptions can be very fuzzy. Tina, scared or not had a long time to look at him unlike your average crime. I believe the descriptions to be pretty accurate...'



That's an opinion, and you are welcome to it, no problem. But here's the deal: How come so many of the other witnesses didn't agree on their descriptions of the hijacker?

A quick review:

1) George Labissioniere: Had a good view of the hijacker because he went to the bathroom so many times and Cooper was in the back: 'No more than thirty-five...'

2) Cord Spreckel: Another good view. 'About fifty. Square jaw.'

3) Bill Mitchell: 'Saggy chin...'

4) Flo Schaffner, the only witness besides the ticket agent to see Cooper without his sunglasses, said his eyes were brown. She thought Cooper was six feet.

5) Mucklow: Five-ten to six feet.

6) Robert Gregory: 'No more than five-nine..'

All three stews picked different combos from the FBI's Facial Identification Catalog. But let's move even farther forward with this idea. Ask yourself this question: WHEN exactly did the FBI obtain these descriptions from the stewardesses? I'm not going to tell you that. I would like Georger to answer that one. And the answer will surprise you.

When Mucklow got off the plane, she looked like a deer in the headlights. You should consider that when considering her testimony. Georger has said that I'm trying to change physics when I suggested that it might be more difficult to gauge someone's true height inside the confines of an aircraft. I know this much. It would be easier if they were standing next to you at a bus stop and you weren't being threatened with instant death at 10,000 feet. That isn't drama, it's reality. And stress in a stressful situation is also reality.

Ask Georger WHEN the FBI actually dealt with the stews after the hijacking...I mean when they actually got down to cases with them. And where it was done. Especially Mucklow and Alice Hancock.

RB says: I re-posted that because you cherry-picked it without answering the issues I raised.

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Blevins, My "theory" fits the "evidence" but not your "opinions".

You need to check Tom Kaye's web page to see what his investigation of the rubber bands included. It was much more comprehensive and thorough than you apparently believe.

The interviews with the passengers and two flight attendants started immediately after they left the aircraft and probably before the airliner had even taken off for Reno.

According to information in the initial write up and elsewhere, the original drop zone was estimated from information that was available before the airliner even landed in Reno. And it was estimated by NWA personnel.'



I do know how they worked on the flight path, and came to a tentative conclusion on the jump point. The passengers were interviewed after a head count and a name-calling were done. Schaffner and Hancock were probably interviewed initially in Seattle, and agents in Reno probably talked to Mucklow. But have you checked to see when the FBI actually got down to cases with the stews? I think Georger should answer. This move by the FBI, to allow the stews and crew to return home first, and not do the heavy interviews until the following Saturday, may have been a mistake.

As I said, this is my information on what happened. If anyone wants to correct me on this, feel free to do so.
Quote



The title says it all!

Nothing at All

When you find something - take out an ad!

Giid nite Irene.

Ich not going back and read pages of bullshit.

WHATS DA QUESHION!?

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I believe that sketches can be wrong, but don't think this could be in every case or they wouldn't continue
to have them. the odds are probably low of the sketch of Cooper being anywhere close to a real picture or mugshot......or could it?

I'm not saying that Cooper's sketch is this close, but it does make one wonder......B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Georger says in part:

Quote

'In Jo's FIRST ITERATION, highly published in the Halls of Delphi back in 1412, Jo didn't know WHAT was in the paper bag.

Subsequent recall and research with RobertMBlevins helpjng, has expanded and confirmed:

(a) 1 Big Mac
(b) three bundles of cash - correction! 2.5857464846 bundles.
(c) bottle of Malox
(d) ten women's purses
(e) bottle of aspirin
(f) 2 NWA flight maps
(g) lock of JFK's hair
(h) King Arthur's billfold
(i) Tina's childhood photo
(j) two more bottles of aspirin
(j) Elvis' billfold
(k) partidge in a pear tree.

So the obvious question is: If the money turned up at Tina Bar where is the rest of the loot?



I don't have anything to do with Jo Weber. But since you're asking about the remainder of the loot, how about this:

If the hijacker lived, he spent it and no one traced it. You keep ignoring the facts, such as my interview with a senior Treasury Department official, as well as Larry Carr's admission in 2008 that no one was even LOOKING for the money within a maximum of six months after the hijacking.

If you actually addressed a question seriously, instead of with Alice-in-Wonderland, I-Wanna-Be-A-Farflung type responses, I'd drop dead of shock.

Here's what Treasury said to my same question on the money back in 2010:

Quote

'The FBI later printed the complete list of serial numbers of the 10,000 twenty-dollar bills given to Cooper and distributed them to banks, primarily in the Pacific Northwest. However, this list ran several rows of numbers per page and was thirty-four pages long. They were also non-sequential numbers. The F.B.I. has had a few different Special Agents running the Cooper case over the years. In 2008, it was Larry Carr. He admitted in an audio interview that most banks gave up trying to check their incoming twenties against the ransom list within six months or less after the hijacking. The job was just more than bank tellers could handle, due to the sheer volume of different numbers involved. The U.S. Treasury Department also assisted in keeping an eye out for any of the bills, but they were already receiving tens of thousands of bills from other sources each week for normal damaged currency replacement. They were also unable to continue this effort for very long. Although the F.B.I. once claimed that Treasury kept looking for years, a Treasury official contacted by the authors in 2010 contradicted this claim...'



And here's the reason he did: Because he said that literally TRUCKLOADS of used or damaged currency arrive at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing each day for normal replacement from banks, businesses, and individuals. In fact, my 'tens of thousands of bills' estimate wasn't even close. (That's actually a mistake in the book I should have changed long ago. I should have said truckloads as he told me. My bad.) And it was the same situation at the Fed Banks. He said that no matter what the FBI claimed about it, that such a search effort was impossible, and even if it had been attempted, it would not have gone on for very long. THAT'S why none of the bills 'showed up in circulation'. This means that within six months of the hijacking, or less, it was reletively safe for the hijacker to spend those twenties any way he wished without fear of getting caught. (On Larry Carr: The audio interview where he admits the bill search was given up within 3 to 6 months is listed on the Wiki page for Cooper, down at the bottom of the page under External Links.)

Now today...they could probably do something. Maybe scan the incoming bills from a computer-generated list of numbers to catch. But not back then. It would all have to be done by hand from a 34-page paper list containing 10,000 non-sequential serial numbers. Unless Cooper was dumb enough to walk into a local bank with some of the bills within a short time after the hijacking, it was an assignment doomed to failure. All he had to do was wait a little while.


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RobertMBlevins

Georger says in part:

Quote

'In Jo's FIRST ITERATION, highly published in the Halls of Delphi back in 1412, Jo didn't know WHAT was in the paper bag.

Subsequent recall and research with RobertMBlevins helpjng, has expanded and confirmed:

(a) 1 Big Mac
(b) three bundles of cash - correction! 2.5857464846 bundles.
(c) bottle of Malox
(d) ten women's purses
(e) bottle of aspirin
(f) 2 NWA flight maps
(g) lock of JFK's hair
(h) King Arthur's billfold
(i) Tina's childhood photo
(j) two more bottles of aspirin
(j) Elvis' billfold
(k) partidge in a pear tree.

So the obvious question is: If the money turned up at Tina Bar where is the rest of the loot?



I don't have anything to do with Jo Weber. But since you're asking about the remainder of the loot, how about this:

If the hijacker lived, he spent it and no one traced it. You keep ignoring the facts, such as my interview with a senior Treasury Department official, as well as Larry Carr's admission in 2008 that no one was even LOOKING for the money within a maximum of six months after the hijacking.

If you actually addressed a question seriously, instead of with Alice-in-Wonderland, I-Wanna-Be-A-Farflung type responses, I'd drop dead of shock.

Here's what Treasury said to my same question on the money back in 2010:

***'The FBI later printed the complete list of serial numbers of the 10,000 twenty-dollar bills given to Cooper and distributed them to banks, primarily in the Pacific Northwest. However, this list ran several rows of numbers per page and was thirty-four pages long. They were also non-sequential numbers. The F.B.I. has had a few different Special Agents running the Cooper case over the years. In 2008, it was Larry Carr. He admitted in an audio interview that most banks gave up trying to check their incoming twenties against the ransom list within six months or less after the hijacking. The job was just more than bank tellers could handle, due to the sheer volume of different numbers involved. The U.S. Treasury Department also assisted in keeping an eye out for any of the bills, but they were already receiving tens of thousands of bills from other sources each week for normal damaged currency replacement. They were also unable to continue this effort for very long. Although the F.B.I. once claimed that Treasury kept looking for years, a Treasury official contacted by the authors in 2010 contradicted this claim...'



And here's the reason he did: Because he said that literally TRUCKLOADS of used or damaged currency arrive at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing each day for normal replacement from banks, businesses, and individuals. In fact, my 'tens of thousands of bills' estimate wasn't even close. (That's actually a mistake in the book I should have changed long ago. I should have said truckloads as he told me. My bad.) And it was the same situation at the Fed Banks. He said that no matter what the FBI claimed about it, that such a search effort was impossible, and even if it had been attempted, it would not have gone on for very long. THAT'S why none of the bills 'showed up in circulation'. This means that within six months of the hijacking, or less, it was reletively safe for the hijacker to spend those twenties any way he wished without fear of getting caught. (On Larry Carr: The audio interview where he admits the bill search was given up within 3 to 6 months is listed on the Wiki page for Cooper, down at the bottom of the page under External Links.)

Now today...they could probably do something. Maybe scan the incoming bills from a computer-generated list of numbers to catch. But not back then. It would all have to be done by hand from a 34-page paper list containing 10,000 non-sequential serial numbers. Unless Cooper was dumb enough to walk into a local bank with some of the bills within a short time after the hijacking, it was an assignment doomed to failure. All he had to do was wait a little while.
Quote



They say, if a superior alien technology ever visits Earth,
it may appear as Alice-in-Wonderland. Maybe that is the problem
you are having here. Ihre Dummheit verblüfft alles Deutschland!

It's a case of a One Trick Pony. We hit the boundary of its
limitations long ago.

Play it again, Sam.

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377

Last major carrier flying them. Still a few exec 727s and a few small cargo outfits, but no more big 727 fleets will grace the skys.

http://m.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2013/06/24/fedex-retires-last-of-boeing-727.html?page=all&r=full

727



Thanks for the info.

I'm doing some testing today, I'll fly in her colors as a tribute B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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