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quade

DB Cooper

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mrshutter45

"I can call X and ask around if you want ... ? "

personally I don't think he was Cooper, just going over some facts for testxyz. this person seems interested in finding some answers to this. perhaps Testxyz would like the info?



Smokin99 has a 99.99% record of fair impartial research.
I think she will get to the bottom of things if she can, and wants
to.

I will make a few contacts tomorrow and perhaps call X, and
post later. Frankly, I want to give Smokin all the room and
freedom she needs and wants ...

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Greene

Amazon, I hope you were responding to mr? whatever his name is, and not Jim West
Jim west still jumps and fly's every weekend ! Still active, and runs the same DZ you used to jump at :)
Lee West



Yiup pretty much Lee:D

See I do have a clue.. and no way am I going to argue with the boss ( either of you):)

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I also have something to share about a man who contacted me for over 2 months who gave me a "story" about Weber. Supposedly his contacts matched the Marla Cooper contact. I stopped communicating with this guy because he was making his story up as we went. Just like BK.

The man claimed to have a US Marshall and a backer - I finally cut the man off but I saved all of his emails - bet they match someone from the DL camp!

It sounded like a MARLA act from the start, but I played along. When Cossey was killed I stopped communicating with this man - because I realized what he was up to.

Told me he had a witness who ID'd Duane at a store in Carson a couple of days after the crime and that he used a pay phone and was picked up by a WHITE caddie with a man driving and a blonde woman in the back. IT smelled like and sounded like a trap set by Marla's Camp. The man could get quiet angry on the phone if I didn't agree with him. This went on for several wks and then I caught him...he was using sources I had used and claiming he had a buddy there who was putting himself at great jeopardy by obtaining info from a source. There are only a couple of peole who work at that location and neitherh one of them had any contact with this man.

What the man did not understand was how deep and personal my contacts had been and that I had already done a lot on that particular place with it's 100's of archived photos of forestry workers, sawmill workers and others. His story started in one place and suddenly he shifts in a different direction. I played along until I got bored and then I dropped it!

This was in Feb and Mar and lasted until about a wk or 10 days after Cossey got killed. I got nervous regarding the 'game' he was playing and just ceased communications.

Since he got MAD at me - he has moved on. He said this thread was monitored by the Marshall or the Backer...he would tell me not to post about it. He was all over the place, but I let it play thru. Unless you can verify your sources defy and beware. He sent me warnings telling me about something that was being said in the thread - but, I knew what it was - and was no threat. He claimed what he had done in a few wks the thread had not done.

Hopefully he moved on, but I doubt it - he was sure Weber was Cooper. So now he is working on the DL angle - betcha! That or it was a plant by Marla's crew!

Picture of Duane looking like DL posted versus the LD pic Marla claimed was identified as Cooper.

The pic of Duane was taken on Christmas 1977 by me at my home.

Duane was born in 1924 and LD was born in 1933 - pretty hard to make LD be a middle aged man. She has provided NO good decent pic of LD.
What is shown is that LD's eyes looked NOTHING like Cooper and LD had lighter hair with smaller eyes,

Coopers eye were very prominent to the stewardess who saw him look over his glasses and tell her "Miss, I have a bomb". He looked straight at her!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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"LD was born in 1933 "


keep in mind the date of 1933 has not been confirmed. it makes more sense than 1931, but hasn't been confirmed as being correct. the probability of his birth being incorrect is high.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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skyjack71


I also have something to share about a man who contacted me for over 2 months who gave me a "story" about Weber. Supposedly his contacts matched the Marla Cooper contact. I stopped communicating with this guy because he was making his story up as we went. Just like BK.

The man claimed to have a US Marshall and a backer - I finally cut the man off but I saved all of his emails - bet they match someone from the DL camp!

It sounded like a MARLA act from the start, but I played along. When Cossey was killed I stopped communicating with this man - because I realized what he was up to.

Told me he had a witness who ID'd Duane at a store in Carson a couple of days after the crime and that he used a pay phone and was picked up by a WHITE caddie with a man driving and a blonde woman in the back. IT smelled like and sounded like a trap set by Marla's Camp. The man could get quiet angry on the phone if I didn't agree with him. This went on for several wks and then I caught him...he was using sources I had used and claiming he had a buddy there who was putting himself at great jeopardy by obtaining info from a source. There are only a couple of peole who work at that location and neitherh one of them had any contact with this man.

What the man did not understand was how deep and personal my contacts had been and that I had already done a lot on that particular place with it's 100's of archived photos of forestry workers, sawmill workers and others. His story started in one place and suddenly he shifts in a different direction. I played along until I got bored and then I dropped it!

This was in Feb and Mar and lasted until about a wk or 10 days after Cossey got killed. I got nervous regarding the 'game' he was playing and just ceased communications.

Since he got MAD at me - he has moved on. He said this thread was monitored by the Marshall or the Backer...he would tell me not to post about it. He was all over the place, but I let it play thru. Unless you can verify your sources defy and beware. He sent me warnings telling me about something that was being said in the thread - but, I knew what it was - and was no threat. He claimed what he had done in a few wks the thread had not done.

Hopefully he moved on, but I doubt it - he was sure Weber was Cooper. So now he is working on the DL angle - betcha! That or it was a plant by Marla's crew!

Picture of Duane looking like DL posted versus the LD pic Marla claimed was identified as Cooper.

The pic of Duane was taken on Christmas 1977 by me at my home.

Duane was born in 1924 and LD was born in 1933 - pretty hard to make LD be a middle aged man. She has provided NO good decent pic of LD.
What is shown is that LD's eyes looked NOTHING like Cooper and LD had lighter hair with smaller eyes,

Coopers eye were very prominent to the stewardess who saw him look over his glasses and tell her "Miss, I have a bomb". He looked straight at her!



Just curious.

Are you talking about initial N. in the southwest ?

I had to ask. :D

I won't say any more - it's your business. I honestly don't care
one way or the other and you can take that to the bank.

Just confirm if you will ? I wont ask or discuss it further.

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Georger says in part:

Quote

'At the end of the day LD will probably pass into the "cult" file, along with Weber, KC, and the rest ...



KC a cult? Now that's a new one. Here's my definition of 'cult':

Quote

'A self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective...'



I would apply that term more to some of the folks in Cooperland. There isn't any 'cult' going on Weber or Kenny Christiansen. There are only six types of people who follow them, or anyone else named as suspects.

1) Believers
2) Wonderers
3) Disbelievers
4) Amateur investigators without preconceived agendas
5) Amateur investigators WITH preconceived agendas
6) Slanted deniers (This category refers to people who deny the validity of a suspect not so much by any offered evidence, but because they have another agenda)

There is a seventh category, but this can happen to anyone. Cooper Nuts who go off the rails chasing the case. Protect your psyche. Don't go there. :)


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RobertMBlevins

Georger says in part:

Quote

'At the end of the day LD will probably pass into the "cult" file, along with Weber, KC, and the rest ...



KC a cult? Now that's a new one. Here's my definition of 'cult':

***'A self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective...'

Quote



I think you defined cult very well.

self-identified group of people...

who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective...

marked by "ritual" or habitual performance in persuit of
espoused principles or goals in veneration of a person,
ideal, or thing, or custom, always divorced from and
superior to, reality.

The behavior and product of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
(see DSM)

Cooper candidates derrived in such a manner, who are NOT
DB Cooper!, would then qualify as "cult" candidates. They are
mere candidates because in point of fact they never rise to
the level of being suspects, except within the cult(s) that
are claiming they are or could be suspected of being DB Cooper.

One hallmark of cult activity is the reliance on psychic activity,
suspension of the natural laws of nature and science, and claims
to having special knowledge or sensibilities in detecting TRUTH
from fiction which the rest of the population cannot see or know.

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That's a lot of information. Are you trying to say I have a personality disorder or claim supernatural powers? My shrink, psychologist, counselor, and spiritual advisor say 'No' to the first question. :)
Second question: My psychic reader says I have zero talent.

Actually I'm a pretty ordinary, down-to-Earth kind of guy. (You would not know that, since we've never met.)

Like today, for example. I took a 4,000 square foot rental house that was a disaster and cleaned it up so good the new renters nearly fainted when they showed up. I have to admit I've never seen previous renters leave window tracks unattended until mud and algae are a quarter-inch deep. That was a first. The bill was large, the job took 13 hours, and I am taking tomorrow off. I know you look down on me for that sort of work. You've said so. But somebody has to do it, and if you're going to do it, you may as well be the best. The others only WISH they were as good.

If you want to call that a personality disorder, feel free.

Fortunately, the gnomes who make me do this during the week let me out on weekends to write. Or do other stuff. Thank God for that. :)


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Quote

Well, it's easy for me.

I refuse to post here under these INTOLERABLE CONDITIONS.

You can ban me if you want.

I am entitled to my viewpoint on the ROBERTMBLEVINS socalled
ADVENTURE BOOKS REGIME that has controlled every facet of
life here for three years.

As I see this, it is a literal choice between HIM or US!

This is a disgrace and crazy on it's face.

I have another Cooper forum I can go to if I want, where I have
some personal control over matters such as this. Where neither
RobertMBlevins/Adventure Books or Jo Weber are allowed,
period.

The fact is: this forum is not indispensable or fire proof in terms
of DB Cooper discussion. The discussions will go on just fine
without this thread!





:D:D:D










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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mrshutter45 wrote:

"Would be good to know if the LD at Vancouver is NOT Marla's LD"

Yes, that would be good to know.

I found that a Lynn Doyle Cooper born around 1933 lived in Sparks and Reno Nevada. Plus he lived in Eugene Oregon which is also on I-5 like Vancouver. (Eugene to Sisters is about a 2 hour drive).

L.D. Cooper would be about 80 today, if he was still alive. Additional detailed information can be obtained with this search service.

http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&formname=name&qf=lynn&qmi=d&qn=cooper&qcs=&focusfirst=1&page=1&sz=20

(18)
Lynn Doyle Cooper , age 80

Sparks, NV
Reno, NV
Eugene, OR

Relatives

Diana Cooper
Marcia Cooper

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testxyz

mrshutter45 wrote:

"Would be good to know if the LD at Vancouver is NOT Marla's LD"

Yes, that would be good to know.

I found that a Lynn Doyle Cooper born around 1933 lived in Sparks and Reno Nevada. Plus he lived in Eugene Oregon which is also on I-5 like Vancouver. (Eugene to Sisters is about a 2 hour drive).

L.D. Cooper would be about 80 today, if he was still alive. Additional detailed information can be obtained with this search service.

http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&formname=name&qf=lynn&qmi=d&qn=cooper&qcs=&focusfirst=1&page=1&sz=20

(18)
Lynn Doyle Cooper , age 80

Sparks, NV
Reno, NV
Eugene, OR

Relatives

Diana Cooper
Marcia Cooper



that sounds about right. he lived in two homes with Marcia in Sparks (see photo) this is why I find it hard to believe these guys were in hiding with there names on documents all over the place? if I was hiding from the law. I wouldn't leave a paper trail like this.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Yes, out of the midwest, but the name I was provided - neither stated with an "N".


There are persons of interest - well, more than one that started with an N.
;) Well, one chance out of 28 of being right! So we can try the first 2 letters except I just do NOT know which one to start with - again 28 chances one would be right!

One name I do not know the second letter - could be Ni or Ny or Ne, but the rest sounds like mick....connected to Boeing in a way, but not sure how.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins



KC a cult? Now that's a new one. Here's my definition of 'cult':




Refuse to give you MORE space to repeat the same thing you did before about the definition of 'cult'. THIS is the same thing you did and it irritates the hell out of people and only causes them to get inflamed and post things they regret. Please take your trivia on definitions someplace else.

You only do these things to inflame!
Yet, those who only visit occassionally do not see what you repeatedly do to upset others. This thread is about Cooper and not a dictionary!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Born June 18, 1924
Died March 28, 1995

If alive today he would be 89 yrs old!


Testxyz - I am watching your verbage and your handle is very much like the man who contacted me!

The man who contacted me started off with a name that was a friend of Duane's (not difficult to do if you have read the thread and/or have knowledge of the history I have provided to individuals like Sluggo and others).

His story started when he was a boy on a vacation with family. I would not provide him with the last name of the friend - this seemed to incite him. This name he was associating with a Boeing employee, but would not give me a name. It was a stand-off!

He produced a picture I had not seen before, but blacked out the other individuals. There was a ring familiarity to the pic - I told him there was NO way for me to comment. I had seen that damn photo before or another one taken about the same time...but the only way I was going to be sure was if I could see all of the faces. he refused to do so. It was not so much as I recognized the man (I didn't), but the tie I had seen before.

Probably just a popular thing back then. When I went to CA to see Duane's brother there where pictures on the wall of John and a friend. I asked his wife about them out of curiousity. One specific picture stood out - not at that time, but NOW!

IT was a picture of John with a man associated with John & Boeing. I have NO idea who ended up with the pictures after John died, but I would love to see a copy of that photo - ONE more time. I thought the other photo I had remembered was posted on this thread by 377, but he said no. It was 2 men sitting on a couch in the 60's.
One was wearing the same damn tie I saw in the pic sent to me by Mr. X.

A few days later he shifts to another story & pulls away from Boeing and the picture. Suddenly he has a witness! If there were individuals out there who had made claims of seeing Cooper - they would have surfaced LONG ago. He did claim the woman ID a photo of Duane as being the man who called himself "Dusty".

We all know that "Dusty" is a name tatooed on Duane's arm and associated with his prison records.

I enjoyed talking to the guy, but then all things have to come to an end and he was all over the board. I just decided to move on at that point. Why he presented something to me that was familiar and nothing I had specifically posted about - was of interest and still is. If I saw all the faces in that group photo - would have a better grasp of a memory buried in all of the useless CRAP my mind has retained.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

Yes, out of the midwest, but the name I was provided - neither stated with an "N".


There are persons of interest - well, more than one that started with an N.
;) Well, one chance out of 28 of being right! So we can try the first 2 letters except I just do NOT know which one to start with - again 28 chances one would be right!

One name I do not know the second letter - could be Ni or Ny or Ne, but the rest sounds like mick....connected to Boeing in a way, but not sure how.



ok, I appreciate the info. As I said Jo its your business ..
I wont persue it... thanks...

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Amazon

***Amazon, I hope you were responding to mr? whatever his name is, and not Jim West
Jim west still jumps and fly's every weekend ! Still active, and runs the same DZ you used to jump at :)
Lee West



Yiup pretty much Lee:D

See I do have a clue.. and no way am I going to argue with the boss ( either of you):)

Wisdom. One would do well to heed this sage advice, bow to Lee and Jim (but keep an eye on 'em) :P

They are GOOD people! Always have been always will be!

Matt

Sorry Quade, Off topic, I know.
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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I guess Marla has her book ready to go. this was sent to me. it's from Facebook.

PLEASE WATCH!!!!!
I will make an announcement VERY soon about my book, "DB's Niece: the hijacked heart in my head." You'll be able to purchase it on Amazon. Part of the proceeds will go to The Wounded Warrior Project. Meanwhile, please see the following episode of "America's Book of Secrets" on The History Channel 2. Note: there is a narration script error RE: I never saw either of my two uncles again, which is not correct. Otherwise, It's a good teaser! I hope you enjoy it, and tell your friends


the Cooper story starts about half way thru....

http://www.history.com/shows/americas-book-of-secrets/videos/americas-book-of-secrets-lost-treasures#americas-book-of-secrets-lost-treasures

does Gray now believe Marla??????
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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I did watch the History2 program. Looks like they interviewed Geoff Gray and Marla Cooper separately. I don't think Gray really believes Marla's story, but you would have to ask him yourself on that.

Look...I hate to be tough on the girl, but there are some problems with her story, and they keep adding up. Let me list the obvious ones.

1) She's claiming Uncle LD was a Navy paratrooper, but offers no proof of such. Doesn't his available record say 'Seaman'? I have seen a reference to his records supposedly being destroyed in the 1973 fire, but my understanding is that virtually all of those records covered Army and Air Force personnel, not Navy.

2) Marla likes to research out stuff and then use it to embellish her story. Now she's going the BK route and claiming that the CIA was involved. Obviously, she's seen the stories about the CIA drops with the 727. It's either that, or she has uncovered some information linking the CIA to the hijacking, which is doubtful.

3) Non-Marla point: The book author who did the FBI book appears. He hasn't done his research about the ransom bills. He, like many others, uses the fact that none of the money was ever tracked in circulation as the main reason Cooper died, and that's why no one saw any of the bills besides the ones found at Tena Bar. However, I discussed this issue at length with a Treasury Department official in 2010. The Treasury Dept rep said this:

A) How many bills go into Fed Reserve Banks each day? A lot. How many bills end up at the Bureau of Printing and Engraving each day for disposal, replacement, etc from banks, businesses, and individuals? TRUCKLOADS a day, he said. Now, and yes...back in 1971 as well.

B) This official, who had worked at Treasury for decades, said that the idea of the Fed Banks or BPE actually making an individual search by numbers was impossible. One reason was the format for the search. No computers, no scanning of numbers, 10,000 different numbers, non-sequential. He compared it like this: First truckload comes in for the day. 'Do you think we could just start picking through each individual bill and trying to match it from 'your' 34 page list?' (I had mentioned the length and organization of the official list) Then he reminded me that was just the FIRST truck of the day.

C) When I mentioned that Special Agent Larry Carr had admitted in 2008 that most banks had given up the search within three months, (and all within six months), he said Treasury wouldn't have looked for anywhere near that long, no matter what the FBI has claimed. CONCLUSION: After six months, it was virtually safe to spend the bills because no one was actually looking for them anymore. The FBI continued to hold the list, of course, just in case a Brian Ingram happened along.

Back to Marla: If it turns out that through a records search Uncle LD was NOT a paratrooper, this is proof that Marla is a liar. She has previously said 'someone in my family told me he was a paratrooper'. Now she is sure he was. This could easily be proven one way or another. If he wasn't, then you have to figure she's been researching the KC story as well.

Marla says that she will donate portions of proceeds from any book to the Wounded Warriors Project, an organization I wholeheartedly support. If it turns out that Marla is lying about LD's paratrooper service in order to fit him into a better mold as Cooper, and to sell books, well...no comment on that. The jury is still out on Marla, but I think people are going to check that claim on LD.


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I agree with a lot of what you said until you use the term liar. I think it's best for all if we continue to state things as unconfirmed, incorrect or just not true. tends to make things better since some people on here are friends with Marla. I was using that term when I first came onto the thread, people approached me with the issue, so I stopped.

I sent Gray an email earlier about his part in this video, he responded to me rather quickly last year when I conversed with him, so let's see what will transpire.

seems we also got a shot of grannies house where the boys had separate rooms? looked pretty small to me?

I'll be interested for the first time about what BK thinks of this, possibly someone took his story for once.
perhaps Marla will come on and say to Knoss.....Gotcha or bite me.....B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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I watch the History Channel video. Delving into consiperacy theories is always risky since it can sound like a cop out.

The one thing that does help support Marla's claim of CIA involvement is that the Cooper plane was used by the CIA per Grey if I remember correctly.

I attached two news pics. A B&W pic of the Cooper Family with teenage Dewey left and L.D. Right. (and another brother in the Navy?) The other color picture has L.D. in the middle.

The color picture appears to be a younger L.D. (before the hijacking?)

In the Family Picture. To me, it appears the boy on the far left is the witty and smart one (Dewey) when compared to L.D.

Maybe Dewey was the brains of the operation. If they did it.

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testxyz

I watch the History Channel video. Delving into consiperacy theories is always risky since it can sound like a cop out.

The one thing that does help support Marla's claim of CIA involvement is that the Cooper plane was used by the CIA per Grey if I remember correctly.

I attached two news pics. One of the Cooper Family with teenage Dewey left and L.D. Right. (and another brother in the Navy?) The other picture has L.D. in the middle.

The other picture appears to be a younger L.D. (before the hijacking?)



if not mistaken, the second pic is Dewey. no hair ontopB|

we have two different time periods here. LD was in the Korean war, before the 727. I'm not sure, but was there Navy paratroopers in Korea, other than seals? as Blevind said, we beleve he was on a ship, no ground combat or paratrooper detail.

The one with the Navy uniform could be the oldest brother Willie (see photo)
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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I am a member at Ancestry.com. There isn't a whole lot on LD Cooper there. His gravestone says 'SN' in front, which means Seaman. This is the designation used for Seaman back in the Korean War days:

Quote

'SEAMAN--Performs ordinary deck duties in connection with the upkeep and operations of a ship. Stands watch as look-out, telephone talker, messenger, or simillar duty. Member of gun crew.'



Now...it is possible for an enlisted man to make it into Navy Parachute School, but in LD's case this seems highly unlikely. It's a reasonably exclusive club, and nothing in his post-service life-record indicates that that he even knew how to use a parachute. Early on, Marla said LD could have taken skydiving lessons. She went from that to 'a family member told me he was a paratrooper'. Now she says he WAS a paratrooper. What is the truth here? In two years, LD's military record will end up at Ancestry due to the archives rules.

Gravesite pic attached.


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If there was a CIA involvement. why would Dewey be part of the operation, and why would they pick these two older guys? a lot easier to train there own...no? why leave all the loose ends 40+ years????

she also claimed the files were "classified" that is true to an extent. the case is still open, they are not going to revel everything about the case. were just not alowed to see open case files. nothing out of the ordinary if you ask me.

keep in mind that Marla claimed he was not in his right mind after the war and was depressed his whole life she knows an awful lot about someone she last seen at 9 years old? no contact except here and there according to her statements last year. plus she said she thought it was a suicide mission, which makes you ask why Dewey was along again?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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The one thing that does help support Marla's claim of CIA involvement is that the Cooper plane was used by the CIA per Grey if I remember correctly.

Quote



I dont think Geoff was referring to N467US (the Cooper plane)
but to the general use of 727's in Laos and Cambodia ... which
has been the most open classified secret since the bowling ball!

That anyone in this generation needed FBI files or classified
documents to know that ... never heard of VIETNAM!

In my neck of the woods that has been open acknowledged fact
since Grandpa got et by the owls. I literally don't understand
where this Top DSecret stuff about the use of 727's in Vietnam
& Thailand came from. Some people have been living in a cave?

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mrshutter45

If there was a CIA involvement. why would Dewey be part of the operation, and why would they pick these two older guys? a lot easier to train there own...no? why leave all the loose end 40+ years????

she also claimed the files were "classified" that is true to an extent. the case is still open, they are not going to revel everything about the case. were just not alowed to see open case files. nothing out of the ordinary if you ask me.



Marla is just plain 'misinformed', or newly informed, partially
informed ... its a ridiculous claim on it's face. Almost as ridiculous
as the claim Optical Physics does not work in the cabins of
airplanes!

Keep in mind, these snuf pieces rest on all kinds of assumptions
no ordinary person of the world would make. These producers
don't care and presume people aren morons or it doesn't matter:
They use the art of the bait and inflame -
Like Lincoln had two wives! The use of the 727 by the CIA and
USAF was top secret. Quartz is a gas. Lemons contain arsenic.
NYCity is infested by fire ants. Orientals have a different ocular
physiology that the rest of Homo Sapiens and therefore "can't
fly airplanes"! DB Cooper controlled very move the pilots made
during the flight. Etc.

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