DB Cooper

[smokin99 0]

uberalles

Hi 377, Mr Shutter, MarkBennet, BruceSmith, Jo Webber, Georger, Blevins, Robert99, anyone else I forgot.

I looked at the flight maps on Sluggo's site. Shows a flight path through Portland and definitely W of Estacada where the skull was found.

IMO it makes complete sense for the FBI to 'misdirect' the actual location of the plane, the area where he jumped etc at the time of the incident

Maintaining any such misdirection for 42 years is what I would find nonsensical that's just my opinion

Hi Uberalles, You forgot me, but I forgive you.

I can't find it now but I either referenced or attached an article about the parachute and skull find a while back. No one bit so I'm glad you brought it back up.

I thought it was rather strange myself. I have looked, but so far have been unable to find any follow-up.

What I also found strange was the complete lack of - "hey who the hell is this guy". I know the media has a short attention span, and maybe it was there and I just missed it - but it is one of those things that make you go hmmm. They didn't really say how old the remains were, but I did not get the impression that the skull had been there for a lot of years - so seems like someone would have remembered the guy that jumped from the plane and never made it back to wherever he came from.

I've got a tip for all the mafia dudes out there. Forget cement boots or gravel pits - just drop em out of a plane in Washington and their bodies will either never be found - or if they are found, no one will be that interested in finding out how they ended up out there.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

Georger - there are 2 maps. I do NOT want to say WHY or HOW I know this. There is Sluggo's map and there is the ACTUAL FBI map.

The idiots in the FBI office do NOT even know one from the other!
Their files are so compromised it is no wonder our system is falling apart.

The maps are based on the time - real and delayed. With a flight map EVEN one minute makes a big difference and that is what they are playing with 1 minute. You do realize that ONE minute changes the flight path by several miles.

What I believe individuals are confused by is the real time of the notes and communications. Yes there are 2 maps.

THE WHY of why a second map was simply the communciation from plane to ground and not the actual co-ordinates...and the relay time. I am sorry, but what Sluggo calls a map on a site does NOT make it the official map used by the FBI and FAA that night. Relay time and actual co-ordinate reading are different.

The actual radar tracking of the plane should be the only thing that counts. NOW were is that actual RADAR tracking that show the plane was at such and such coordinate at this second and then 30 seconds later at this coordinate. Was the system detailed - What maps are they using?

The RADAR co-ordinates or Sluggo's map? Where they co-ordinated correct - was there a qliche because of the storm and the winds and the radar tracking system.

The computer geeks who create FBI sites - could care less if they are using ACTUAL FBI material of not.

Obviously I have NO use for what is CALLED FBI files at this time - it takes only ONE mistake for a criminal to get caught and visa versa for the FBI to loose their man.

THE FBI made MISTAKES and the FAA nor the Co-ordinates are infalible.There was an obvious relay problem that night.

Obviously I do NOT have a CLUE what I am talking about - maybe the FBI should talk to the air traffic controllers. Who worked this that night. Might find one of them transferred to Atlanta pretty quickly after that maybe he had come in from Atlanta???. These controlers make mistakes - and supposedly are relying on information from the system - but there is human intervention and it make a difference.

Ask the controlers who worked in 1971 - if the didn't have to make a decision based on GUT instead of what the co-ordinates read....many a controller has save lives by seeing a problem with the relayed information. The VOR and Guidance Systems back then were NOT what they are today.

Today they are so accurated the Controller needs to heed the equipment and not his gut. 1971 those damn things were NOT 100% reliable. Duane had friends in Atanta who where controllers - He went to see one of them during the time he & I spent together in ATLANTA.

Guess who he sold insurance to - high risk guys like controllers. Guess who the company he worked for in 1971 created insurance policies for - GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES and AIRTRAFFIC CONTROLERS...by the way per the letter head they also sold to Federal Agents.

FBI ignored this employment - WONDER WHY? Has always puzzled me - but the man who headed up the company was even more of a puzzle? A background check and the activities of the company and the fact that Duane worked for them should have given the FBI a direction to go in. They made copies of the letter head and the IOU!

The FBI screwed up!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

"...The FBI did not make the flight path map ... any more than
they make Chevy's and Quantum Possum Brand shoes with
secret detectors that implant between your toes! ..."

***

If the FBI does not embrace the Soderlind flight path as their own, why then do they claim Soderlind's LZ as the official place to send their agents and local LE?

To rant about this point and not address the larger issue of whether the Ariel LZ is a mis-direct by the FBI for unknown reasons makes me wonder if you are trying to be a spin doctor here, and clean up a feddie-teddy mess.

And why do you dodge my questions about your cultural goggles? Whatsamatta? Chicken?

[Robert99 37]

Briefly, I have now spent some time on the Harrison papers and run some calculations on the information in them. Parts of this information is sufficiently different from the previous "narrative" type transcripts, mainly the so-called "FBI Notes", that it may be possible to make some sense out of the flight path now. Especially that portion of the flight path that starts at the "23 DME mile" point south of the Portland VORTAC (now known as the Battleground VORTAC) and continues south into California and Nevada.

So I plan to do some more detailed calculations on the Harrison information over the next few days.

The Harrison papers describe Cooper as being 6 feet 1 inch tall, 175 pounds, and 50 to 60 years old. This doesn't support the KC theory in any way. But the height fits in with Sailshaw's description.

Georger, you have a PM on the way.

Robert99

[BruceSmith 3]

"...Still haven't seen anything from Bruce Smith proving that Rataczak said the flight was west of V23, by the way. Not that such proof doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it yet..."

***

As I have written many times, and stated repeatedly, my information sourced to Rataczak comes from my 2009 phone interview with him at his home in Minnesota.

First he told me that he didn't know where Flight 305 was; then many moments later he said it was east of Victor 23. (Not west, btw, as you have stated, Robert.)

Now, Bill is either telling the truth or not. Either way, it all adds to the uncertainly about the flight path.

This issue begs the Big Journalistic Question: how do you really know when someone is deceiving you? When is an erroneous statement simply faulty memory or a mistake, and when is it a lie? My rule of thumb is that a pre-ponderence of information has to be weighed in one's own internal truthometer.

For me, I think Rataczak was spinning me. I believe that he knows very well where 305 was that night. After all, he has had 42 years to clarify the issue.

I believe that his comment that Flight 305 was east of V-23 is closer to the truth than his grand comment to me when I asked initially where the plane was: "It's an enigma."

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Okay, fine. What if the description is a bit off? The hijacker was mostly seated.

Blevins, Contrary to your statement, the hijacker spent most of the time the airplane was on the ground in Seattle standing in the lavatory door area. The stews had the opportunity to observe him for more than four hours total. The stews also had a reason for remembering him and the passengers didn't, since they weren't aware of the hijacking.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***

Okay, fine. What if the description is a bit off? The hijacker was mostly seated.

Blevins, Contrary to your statement, the hijacker spent most of the time the airplane was on the ground in Seattle standing in the lavatory door area. The stews had the opportunity to observe him for more than four hours total. The stews also had a reason for remembering him and the passengers didn't, since they weren't aware of the hijacking.

Robert99


one has to wonder what Blevins would say if KC was 6 feet tall? I'll bet the angle of his story would be different. so, according to Blevins Tina was sooooo nervous she was probably wrong when she said she had to look up at Cooper. the note Flo read must be completely off to? the stews were Cooper's messengers, they did what was asked of them. now, once it was over I'm sure a heavy weight came upon them, but, I'm sure the description was pretty darn close. I can't say the composite will fit 100% but the description between them were close enough. he keeps bringing up the passengers view. this is where his faulty description is proven. they had no reason to remember him, so, you have different outlooks of Cooper. If KC had hair on top of his head, and Peterson was bald, you can rest assure that Robert Blevins would be telling Sailshaw that everyone agreed that Cooper didn't wear a wig. he would add his (*laughs*) along with the FBI wanted poster, and everyone's descriptions. so far to date. Robert Blevins seems to have a lot of problems with the description of his own investigation. starting with how the house was bought!

the stews showed no problems performing there jobs while the crime was in play. we would have known if any of them was not able to carry on due to stress, or shock. Tina sat and talked with Cooper, had a smoke with him. she performed her job well above what was asked. maybe, just maybe this was (in Tina's mind) a calling card to take her religious beliefs a step further than she was previously, and not due to being stressed out. it's a possibility, but not proven.

don't forget they only had a moment to describe the bomb in the briefcase. seems they had a detailed description of that, but hey, who cares right? unless you have a suspect of course. can we twist this around too? maybe it was grey (not the color of the uniforms) and had yarn for wiring? C-4 instead of dynamite. seems pretty easy to make it into what you wish...

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 20]

Jo wrote

Quote

I will try to answer any questions anyone wants to ask, but I won't be available for very long - I have to be saying good bye - I can't take much more of the torture I have put myself thru for the past 17 yrs - trying to get someone to hear me

Jo,

First let me say I am very happy that your predictions of your imminent departure from this life have proven to be wrong. But I have to say, you have made more "last performance" announcements than Cher and Streisand combined.

You complain about not "being heard." Everything you say on the Internet is heard and preserved. Accepted as credible is another story. I don't think you are a liar. I just dont think that the evidence you have presented makes a credible case that DW was DBC.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong about Duane, KC or any other suspect that I think is an unlikely DBC. I have several recipes for crow standing by. BTW, crows seem to have taken over from the seagulls as the dominant avaian scavengers in the SF Bay Area. I can bag one any day without stepping off my back porch. They seem to be smart. You can point a broomstick at them and they dont budge. Bring out a pellet rifle and they scram immediately.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[MarkBennett 5]

One other issue with the physical description -- and someone with a background with an airline might correct me -- I don't think the flight attendants were asked about the hijacker's description and they said 'Hmmm...let me think.". I assume they are trained to make note of height, weight, hair color, eye color, etc. As Chkret pointed out, the descriptions from Flo and Tina were very similar.

Other descriptions were varied, but I don't think they can carry the same weight as those by Flo and Tina since the others were recollections after the fact -- much like RobertMBlevins first impressions of Brett Boone.

[mrshutter45 21]

MarkBennett

One other issue with the physical description -- and someone with a background with an airline might correct me -- I don't think the flight attendants were asked about the hijacker's description and they said 'Hmmm...let me think.". I assume they are trained to make note of height, weight, hair color, eye color, etc. As Chkret pointed out, the descriptions from Flo and Tina were very similar.

Other descriptions were varied, but I don't think they can carry the same weight as those by Flo and Tina since the others were recollections after the fact -- much like RobertMBlevins first impressions of Brett Boone.

Good points. you wonder at what point do we change everything documented about Cooper. KC goes against a lot. they try to change the appearance, they try and change the grudge statement. I don't think this is a changing room, where you have the option to try what ever you wish.

sometimes you can be ID'd at the wrong time. it could ruin your day, perhaps even your year if a "worse case" should come upon you.

Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV6_7otLBRE

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

RobertMBlevins

I would like to see the NWA ticket guy's testimony on this one. He was pretty much the only one (?) to see Cooper on the ground. Robert Gregory, the witness mentioned by Geoff Gray in his book, said he saw the hijacker a few times, since he was also in the back. Said the hijacker was no more than five-nine.

RobertBlevins - GIVE it up. You keep trying to FORCE Kenney as Cooper. NOTHING U can ever do will put KC on that plane. Nothing U can ever claim will MAKE Kenny fit Cooper's description! PERIOD!

All of your defenses on this make you LOOK & SOUND like U are FORCING issues. NOTHING U do will ever make any difference - the FBI is OFFICIALLY closing the case! U did NOT personally know Kenny - the nice guy, yet you continue to beat his image into the ground and to try to make him the criminal he was NOT!

Weber's backgound is mostly documented other than missing time in the 40's after he was "removed" from McNeil. Then the yrs 1962 to 1966 - again Weber is OFF the map. There is also some time in the late 50's that is a problem. but NOT of any real importance - perhaps he was trying to work his way back WEST to family friends and distance relatives in WA.

IF KC even met the description of Cooper in any way - it is only in your telling of a story about a mild mannered young man who you claim committed this one crime. YOUR story was created for a book (twisted and manipulated exploration) - NOT an investigative exploration with the help of the FBI.

WHY did U not ask the "witness" regarding Kenny's actions to GO to the FBI and make WRITTEN depositions. THAT is the 1st thing you should have done. Not U claiming to do it for them, but you should have insisted they contact the FBI and to have GO public at that time.

The first thing I did with Weber was to contact the FBI and family members or anyone who knew Weber.

I gave the FBI a list of past employers & they made lots of copies of W2's and tax reports and names of companies Weber worked for. I provided the phone number of those I knew and any information I had. My life was threatened more than ONE time during all of this, by individuals who knew Duane as John. THE FBI didn't care - they never went to see the man that I am aware of - the man went POOF after I went Public. Maybe he just died, but I found no OBIT under his supposed name.

His criminal file and military file was erased - but, I had little to go on in the first place regarding this man. He had a business when I first contacted the FBI. To my knowledge the FBI did NOT contact this man...I found nothing that substantiated he ever owned a business.

The other man - was so wealthy his shield was solid! I was warned more than ONE time - to stop digging if I wanted to stay alive.
A clerk at one of Duane's prior employers gave me the name of a man. That man has participated in this thread or they just have the same name. Perhaps it was just "their way" of trying to find out just HOW much I knew. It was also way of trying to throw a monkey wrench into a motor while it was running at full speed.

Someone needed to know HOW much I knew! MORE than I should that is a given - but, NOT enough to do collateral damage. Now that the man is deceased - perhaps some truths will be forthcoming very soon. I am getting indications this just might happen. This man out of Duane's past was a GOOD thing and the things this man did with his power was GOOD! BUT, all secrets need to end when they cause damage to other that could have been avoided.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 194]

mrshutter45

***Good stuff, Mr. Shutter,

Ask me to give a yes/no on any of the suspects, I'd probably vote "No" on all of them.

I have problems with him dying in the jump as well. Was DB Cooper the kind of guy who would not have been missed if he had died? I don't think so. Plus, no parachute, no brief case and no body. If I had to guess, I'd have to say he made it.

If he died in the jump, that brings us back to Mel Wilson, Vicki's dad. He was missing and he was a criminal. However, he was missing before the hijacking and he had a reason to be missing.

I go back and forth -- I think there must be somebody new that hasn't been investigated, but is it really possible the true hijacker could have slipped through the cracks and either didn't tell anyone or died without being tied to the crime?

"I go back and forth -- I think there must be somebody new that hasn't been investigated, but is it really possible the true hijacker could have slipped through the cracks and either didn't tell anyone or died without being tied to the crime?"

sure, the possibility is there that he has not been found...alive. Mel Wilson sure did slip thru the cracks. he did disappear around the same time! if you drive down Cooper Hwy, you find a split in the road. the problem is, which route did he take. I'm not set in stone that he took the Hwy to hell. it's still possible he fooled everyone. I tend to lean more to the Hwy to hell though. If Cooper's family was dead, or he didn't stay in touch, it's possible to go missing without any alert.

Missing doesnt catch him. People went/still go missing all the
time and in a large percentage of those cases nobody cares,
and in some percentage people are glad see their missing
vanish never to be seen again. Much later people usually
wonder - whatever happened to - but by then its too late.

There are missing people in every extended family -

Failure to match finger prints and dna is more puzzling but still
common.

H tried to separate the Cooper hijacking from all the rest and
claim it was unique. Stats say otherwise (as Farflung pointed
out).

My guess is there came a point where the case was no longer
a priority, and the minute that happens that chance of finding
a match reduces exponentially, especially if you dont have solid
evidence in the first place.

The found money offers the possibility that something went
wrong for Cooper, perhaps terminally wrong, and if that
happened whatever it was, it also erased even more evidence.
It only adds to the problem to have anyone with any authority
say: "The money did not arrive by natural means". That only
complicates everything and adds a giant misdirection since
there is no decisive evidence at all, to back such an "opinion"
up! This case is full of "opinions" and that alone may be why
Cooper's fate and identity still remains unknown - apparently.

There may be evidence the public doesn't have that would put
everything in better perspective. I am 100% certain that is the
case.

[georger 194]

smokin99

***Hi 377, Mr Shutter, MarkBennet, BruceSmith, Jo Webber, Georger, Blevins, Robert99, anyone else I forgot.

I looked at the flight maps on Sluggo's site. Shows a flight path through Portland and definitely W of Estacada where the skull was found.

IMO it makes complete sense for the FBI to 'misdirect' the actual location of the plane, the area where he jumped etc at the time of the incident

Maintaining any such misdirection for 42 years is what I would find nonsensical that's just my opinion

Hi Uberalles, You forgot me, but I forgive you.

I can't find it now but I either referenced or attached an article about the parachute and skull find a while back. No one bit so I'm glad you brought it back up.

I thought it was rather strange myself. I have looked, but so far have been unable to find any follow-up.

What I also found strange was the complete lack of - "hey who the hell is this guy". I know the media has a short attention span, and maybe it was there and I just missed it - but it is one of those things that make you go hmmm. They didn't really say how old the remains were, but I did not get the impression that the skull had been there for a lot of years - so seems like someone would have remembered the guy that jumped from the plane and never made it back to wherever he came from.

I've got a tip for all the mafia dudes out there. Forget cement boots or gravel pits - just drop em out of a plane in Washington and their bodies will either never be found - or if they are found, no one will be that interested in finding out how they ended up out there.

Funny!

If you can find and repost your original posts. I remember this
as two unrelated events; parachute in a tree seen by a father
and his son, then skull found at another location far from the
parachute which was somewhere near the Columbia river?

I have articles on both events but just am too lazy to dig them
up.

[georger 194]

MarkBennett

One other issue with the physical description -- and someone with a background with an airline might correct me -- I don't think the flight attendants were asked about the hijacker's description and they said 'Hmmm...let me think.". I assume they are trained to make note of height, weight, hair color, eye color, etc. As Chkret pointed out, the descriptions from Flo and Tina were very similar.

Other descriptions were varied, but I don't think they can carry the same weight as those by Flo and Tina since the others were recollections after the fact -- much like RobertMBlevins first impressions of Brett Boone.

The physical description given by all the stews was
immediate ... right at the front of every note made and
kept in this case, duplicated many times in people's notes,
communicated to the ground first & foremost. This was notThe
stews reponding later when asked later ... saying 'Hmmm where
was I that day!' This was real time with Cooper right in front of
them on the plane beginning immediately after he hands over his
note and tells Flo to read it!

The apparition of Unicornd and wing devils happens later when
Klatuu arrived and suck 305 up into his starship, and the Greys
gave everyone on board a body cavity exam!

[mrshutter45 21]

georger

******Hi 377, Mr Shutter, MarkBennet, BruceSmith, Jo Webber, Georger, Blevins, Robert99, anyone else I forgot.

I looked at the flight maps on Sluggo's site. Shows a flight path through Portland and definitely W of Estacada where the skull was found.

IMO it makes complete sense for the FBI to 'misdirect' the actual location of the plane, the area where he jumped etc at the time of the incident

Maintaining any such misdirection for 42 years is what I would find nonsensical that's just my opinion

Hi Uberalles, You forgot me, but I forgive you.

I can't find it now but I either referenced or attached an article about the parachute and skull find a while back. No one bit so I'm glad you brought it back up.

I thought it was rather strange myself. I have looked, but so far have been unable to find any follow-up.

What I also found strange was the complete lack of - "hey who the hell is this guy". I know the media has a short attention span, and maybe it was there and I just missed it - but it is one of those things that make you go hmmm. They didn't really say how old the remains were, but I did not get the impression that the skull had been there for a lot of years - so seems like someone would have remembered the guy that jumped from the plane and never made it back to wherever he came from.

I've got a tip for all the mafia dudes out there. Forget cement boots or gravel pits - just drop em out of a plane in Washington and their bodies will either never be found - or if they are found, no one will be that interested in finding out how they ended up out there.

Funny!

If you can find and repost your original posts. I remember this
as two unrelated events; parachute in a tree seen by a father
and his son, then skull found at another location far from the
parachute which was somewhere near the Columbia river?

I have articles on both events but just am too lazy to dig them
up.

this story?

http://www.questia.com/library/1G1-63952177/skull-found-in-grandma-s-attic-may-be-skyjacker-d-b

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

georger

If you can find and repost your original posts. I remember this
as two unrelated events; parachute in a tree seen by a father
and his son, then skull found at another location far from the
parachute which was somewhere near the Columbia river?

I have articles on both events but just am too lazy to dig them
up.

Georger,
that is the way I also remembered it! Then yrs later a Newbie comes up with a story and makes us wonder in our minds if we are actually MIS-Remembering. I ain't interested enough to go thru it again.

377,
There comes a time when everything ends. The day I went thru yesterday was very difficult and it is just one of difficult days to come. There have been times I have thrown my hands up and said - OH, the hell with it!

You rethink it and try to step away - BUT,if you KNOW you are telling the truth this becomes a self destructive thing. I was ready to STEP out until I had a BRIEF conversation with JT yesterday. I ended up CUSSING HIM OUT as he called me a LIAR over and over again. I was shouting and calling him what he deserved to be called.

All I wanted to tell him about was the last chapter of my search and to share something with him, but he started in on the LIAR LIAR thing again!

The results? I am at this key board going at it again....

Sacrificing what precious time I have to END THIS!

What I should have done YRS ago was to have gone to WA and STAYED there and on the doors of the media until I got myself arrested. I EXPECT that would have got some attention. Then the FBI would have called and made arrangement to meet with then still living individuals regarding their knowledge of Weber.

If I could have found some way to go public - and the public media was accurated and would publicize all of the pictures of WEBER this could have been over. I didn't have the money and really do NOT interview well and get angry when someone twists my words or the story I have tried to tell for yrs.

When I found the museum had only the old distorted picture of Duane in the museum - I have been IRRATE! Number one if there is still someone living that is able to go and see the pictures of suspects - (the right pictures), that person just might remember....I have a picture of that young man in my father's old album!

I need to get the PICTURES that count of WEBER in the media and on the front page and in something lots of Senior pick up and READ. NOT just in WA, because the person may have left the area. I want the pictures and the explanation of the changes and yr of the pics to be available to everyone who can read. I want them to accurately be told the thing I said.

I want to EXPOSE the locations Duane took me to (to the PUBLIC). JT figured them out and removed all of the evidence. I SHOULD have done this in 2001 when I went to WA, but I chose to fight from the shaddows. Stupid me was afraid of my life being damaged - WELL, after 17 yrs - there is NOT much left to DAMAGE.

I want to describe those places to historians and the public - and question WHY JT claimed they did NOT exist. I want people to come forward with OLD archive photos of these location - but, the problem was fortune hunters going to these area and tearing them up. I was told if I went public with the description and asked the Public for help - I could be sued by the property owners and the government for damages to these properties.

There would need to be a historian for several counties to go with me to these area and to recover old pics and histories of the site. Perhaps they were just places Weber worked in WA.....BUT THE FBI said DUANE was never in WASHINGTON! BULL SHIT!

I expect now anything I do would be too much too late! I would only be able to go out with some one a couple of hours and then I might need medication which dulls the mind....

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MarkBennett 5]

***People went/still go missing all the
time and in a large percentage of those cases nobody cares,
and in some percentage people are glad see their missing
vanish never to be seen again. Much later people usually
wonder - whatever happened to - but by then its too late.

That's interesting, Georger. I know one of the tacks the FBI took at the time was to check against any missing person reports. That still seems strange to me in this case.

The person would have to stop showing up to work, and stop supporting a family. It seems if the hijacker were an educated person, he'd leave a hole somewhere.

But, you're right...If a person had no family or close friends and quit a job and moved shortly before the hijacking maybe nobody would notice. That seems like a more uncommon than common situation, but that's just speculation on my part.

[georger 194]

MarkBennett

***People went/still go missing all the
time and in a large percentage of those cases nobody cares,
and in some percentage people are glad see their missing
vanish never to be seen again. Much later people usually
wonder - whatever happened to - but by then its too late.

That's interesting, Georger. I know one of the tacks the FBI took at the time was to check against any missing person reports. That still seems strange to me in this case.

The person would have to stop showing up to work, and stop supporting a family. It seems if the hijacker were an educated person, he'd leave a hole somewhere.

But, you're right...If a person had no family or close friends and quit a job and moved shortly before the hijacking maybe nobody would notice. That seems like a more uncommon than common situation, but that's just speculation on my part.

Another angle was to ask around, 'who is in debt to the tune of $200k'.

[georger 194]

mrshutter45

*********Hi 377, Mr Shutter, MarkBennet, BruceSmith, Jo Webber, Georger, Blevins, Robert99, anyone else I forgot.

I looked at the flight maps on Sluggo's site. Shows a flight path through Portland and definitely W of Estacada where the skull was found.

IMO it makes complete sense for the FBI to 'misdirect' the actual location of the plane, the area where he jumped etc at the time of the incident

Maintaining any such misdirection for 42 years is what I would find nonsensical that's just my opinion

Hi Uberalles, You forgot me, but I forgive you.

I can't find it now but I either referenced or attached an article about the parachute and skull find a while back. No one bit so I'm glad you brought it back up.

I thought it was rather strange myself. I have looked, but so far have been unable to find any follow-up.

What I also found strange was the complete lack of - "hey who the hell is this guy". I know the media has a short attention span, and maybe it was there and I just missed it - but it is one of those things that make you go hmmm. They didn't really say how old the remains were, but I did not get the impression that the skull had been there for a lot of years - so seems like someone would have remembered the guy that jumped from the plane and never made it back to wherever he came from.

I've got a tip for all the mafia dudes out there. Forget cement boots or gravel pits - just drop em out of a plane in Washington and their bodies will either never be found - or if they are found, no one will be that interested in finding out how they ended up out there.

Funny!

If you can find and repost your original posts. I remember this
as two unrelated events; parachute in a tree seen by a father
and his son, then skull found at another location far from the
parachute which was somewhere near the Columbia river?

I have articles on both events but just am too lazy to dig them
up.

this story?

http://www.questia.com/library/1G1-63952177/skull-found-in
-grandma-s-attic-may-be-skyjacker-d-b


Thats one of the stories. I think Sluggo posted about the
parachute and the skull(s) stories years ago here ... I have
original newspaper articles on all of these stories if I get the time
to dig them out. ....

[EVickiW 0]

RobertMBlevins

*********People went/still go missing all the
time and in a large percentage of those cases nobody cares,
and in some percentage people are glad see their missing
vanish never to be seen again. Much later people usually
wonder - whatever happened to - but by then its too late.

That's interesting, Georger. I know one of the tacks the FBI took at the time was to check against any missing person reports. That still seems strange to me in this case.

The person would have to stop showing up to work, and stop supporting a family. It seems if the hijacker were an educated person, he'd leave a hole somewhere.

But, you're right...If a person had no family or close friends and quit a job and moved shortly before the hijacking maybe nobody would notice. That seems like a more uncommon than common situation, but that's just speculation on my part.

Another angle was to ask around, 'who is in debt to the tune of $200k'.

I kind of doubt the generalization that 'in a large percentage of (missing person) cases no one cares, glad to see them go missing, etc..

Even the friends of homeless people sometimes report a homeless person missing, if they had certain habits in their lifestyle and just disappeared. Nearly everyone else has other things in their lives, such as a job, a home, friends, family, co-workers, landlords, bill collectors, whatever. I think that in the large majority of cases when someone goes missing....SOMEONE calls it in. Or the landlord finally uses his key, whatever. I think the chances are that someone like Cooper would be reported missing if he WENT missing. This leaves only a few possibilities. He never went missing because he got away with it. The missing person report was somehow never associated with the hijacker. The missing person was not from the Northwest so no one thought to associate him with Cooper.

On the description of Cooper: All three stews gave different combinations from the FBI's Face ID composite catalog. I'm not going down this road again here. There is one opinion (the description is correct to a fault) and there is another: Gray's claim in his book that in reality, the witnesses hardly agreed on anything. In fact, Flo Schaffner and Tina Mucklow disagreed on height, as well...although not by a lot.

See Skyjack, pages 90-92. Gray is saying this. He will be in Tacoma at the museum this week. He's seen all the available documents on Kenny's property. (I emailed them to him recently and warned him that some people at the symposium might question how he established his facts on the house) So...you have two questions to ask Gray. Facts on the house. What he thinks about the original witness reports that the Seattle FBI allowed him to examine.

I did think about going to this event, but even if I wanted to, I have to work.

....or a missing persons report was not filed until August of 2012. In fact, when speaking with the deputy at the Dane County Sheriff's Department, he stated Melvin's fingerprints were found on a card in their files and never uploaded to IAFIS. In fact, as of today, the prints have yet to be uploaded into IAFIS.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/15178/0/

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[skyjack71 0]

***People went/still go missing all the
time and in a large percentage of those cases nobody cares,
and in some percentage people are glad see their missing
vanish never to be seen again. Much later people usually
wonder - whatever happened to - but by then its too late.


If anyone knew the circumstance of Weber from 1968 till 1972 - you will understand that WEBER was such a person.

He was released from Jefferson as John Collins and he had lived under that name since 1962. Now his alias has been exposed - the monies he had earned on the run under that name had been used - women, parties and alcohol. His wife acquires custody of her children while Duane is in prison (you guys didn't know that one did you)?

After a some time in KS during his work release I suppose - they go to CO where his wife had family. That is short lived with the FBI comes looking for him and the Brother-in-law tell him to get his car out of the warehouse and never come back. Duane and the wife pile 3 kids in a car and head to New Orleans and on the way ditch another car in the mid west.

For 2 wks in N.Orleans they are basically homeless and befriended by someone Duane knew - his name was infamous regarding the Kennedy situation. The daughter and the son - both told me about this man, but could not remember his name - just his fake eyebrows and wig and how weird he was...I was given the impression perhaps the weird things were more than just weird. They were his guest for about 2 wks until the got a place of their own - the wife was still using an alias at the time.

The FBI or who ever was looking for Weber/Collins must have contacted himim in N.Orleans or AL and let him BE! WHY & WHAT were they looking for him for? THE FBI seems to have NO knowledge of this! Four people did NOT tell the same LIE without a reason. What favor did the authorities owe an excon?

SOME HOW the excon gets a job in AL selling insurance - and using his real name! HOW could that Happen!

He and his wife are DEEP into the N.Orleans scene . Some really bad things happened in N.Orleans but that is NOT my story to tell. The 2 older boys joined the service with both of them ending up in WA. When Camille comes in they head to Atlanta. Duane working at nights at the MidNight Sun under John Collins and day jobs as Duane Weber. Leading double life even then.

The lived in Mobile and put the kids in a decent school but partied in N.Orleans. It was the only yr the 8 yr old ever remembered spend the entire school yr in one place!



1970/1971 - Duane is NOT making any money. He cannot support them. She is better off without JOHNNIE! BUT she is CRAZY about Johnnie. Some really bad personal things happened, but again that is not my story. Duane disappeared she claimed before Thanksgiving & adamant they were NOT together at that time...but evidence seems to indicate otherwise.

Contradicts the story later - but known to tilt the bottle ofte. Duane when he was working was back and forth between Columbia S.C. and Atlanta...SOMETHING SOME of you DO NOT UNDERSTAND. An outside salesman often does not attend meetings - especially if they are working 2 jobs and their area is a ways from the office. Their contacts with other employees is limited as is any repetitive contact with the client. They make the appt, make the presentation - and if they are lucky write a contract...(this is a one time things). When the policy is issued it is mailed to the client.

ONE time contact - maybe two if they forget something! NO one remembers the face of a saleman they meet one time.

At the time before the 1971 incident he is not selling insurance - he is running to AL and back every wk end.
Asked his wife who was working in Kress to buy him a pair of Dickies - the jump suit that zips up the front. He is not with he,r but with her...gone all the time. He is working with a man with a van - he never bring the man to the house - gets in and out at the road and is gone all weekend.

Never lived any place more than a few months. Always on the move, but always had money (well, of course Duane was a thief). He made trips and came home with suitcases of jewelry and furs. NO home, NO roots, No personal friends - The face that no one remembered. The face that blended in, but charmed individuals enough strip them of their valuables.

They didn't have a life - they lived out of a suit cases and rentals.

In one conversation she doesn't know where he is and in another conversation she is with him and they go to N.Y. for New Yrs. WHERE the hell were the kids? She claimed she went home to another state before Thankgiving but then turns around and says she was with him and they went to FL where he had the cash to buy a boat, but she wouldn't let him.
When she was drinking you couldn't shut her up - those stories contradicted conversations from earlier composed contacts.

She claims he hurt himself cutting down a tree in front of the trailer. Verified by the employee to explain some injuries after Thankgiving & New Yrs. She supposedly wasn't with him before and after Thankgiving and yet she is?????

She says she was with her family in another state and she didn't know where he was...at Thankgiving and they are broke and have no money, but can afford to go to N.Y. for New YRs..

He buys her a new car and himself a new car after they get back from N.Y. - GUESS he acquired a lot of money in N.Y.??????

Things start to fall apart. He tell her in the early spring there is someone else. There is an incident ( not my story to tell).

She has another incident at home - and her son calls the ambulance and then in May they divorce and she goes to Kansas. By the end of the summer he is remarried, but that was an on again and off again marriage built on false hoods by Weber. A tornado 4 yr marriage on today and off tomorrow.

Duane's friends were WORK associates - not personal friends. Duane acquire one personal friend thru his work - the one who told the FBI he knew Duane had a past, but not what it was. He did NOT meet this person until 1973

Duane would run into people, but he didn't introduce me - remember he was also known as John Collins - he sure as hell didn't want me to know that!

We never ran into individuals he sold policies too????

NOW, do you understand that Duane was a man with many personalities and he was a traveling man - with his life and with his work. He was a thief - in today and gone tomorrow. Wonder how many women he relieved of their jewelry and anything else they owned of value. How did he do this?

I just know this. The Duane Weber I knew was NOT the Duane Weber whose stories have been told. WHY he was different with me - I will never understand! For the life of me - I do not know how he concealed his life from me - he had learned to discuss his life in 3 rd person. Why I never caught it - I do not know. He told me about his life, but I thought he was telling me about someone else.

He was getting to old to live on the run - and I was convenient and naive and I didn't ASK questions. WE actually had a decent marriage and we both held steady jobs. Duane kept his distance from people unless he thought he could control things - and as long as the decision was a good one - if I thought it was wrong I did speak up.

When we got married I now realize was probably the first time he had been in a church since he was a young man...I insisted on being married by a minister and in a church - not by a justice of peace. Even though I walked away from the Church many yrs ago - that again is a personal battle I struggle with.

Perhaps it has been these horrible 18 yrs I have had to deal with this thing!
God was NOT there for ME - the law of the land was NOT on the side of right, but on the side or Wrong! Why bother to believe anything any one says!

The FBI lied! THey are supposed to be men and women with principals!
In God We Trust - that is supposed to be AMERICA and the justice system. NOT any MORE! It is ALL corrupt from the Presidential Office down to the local court house....they all hide behind the laws they make filled with spam laws and tricks and wording that confuse the simple individuals and even the politicians.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

***

....or a missing persons report was not filed until August of 2012. In fact, when speaking with the deputy at the Dane County Sheriff's Department, he stated Melvin's fingerprints were found on a card in their files and never uploaded to IAFIS. In fact, as of today, the prints have yet to be uploaded into IAFIS.

***

Well, Vickie that only supports what I have said all along. Do they even have Weber's prints? If your Dad's prints have NEVER been loaded who is to say other individuals have been loaded or perhaps compromised.

Duane was a mulitple excon, so I am sure they got his prints -but do the prints from Jefferson match the prints from McNeil a file.

Point being:
1. The FBI said Duane was NOT in McNeil in a conversation in March of 2000.
2. How can the FBI use the McNeil prints if he was not there?

Statements made by the FBI in this case are laugable! Ridiculous!

As a surving daughter can you get those prints? The information the FBI is supposedly making available on Cooper - does any of that include the particial prints of Cooper?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

See Skyjack, pages 90-92. Gray is saying this. He will be in Tacoma at the museum this week.

I believe the museum posted a couple of days ago that Gray is not at the museum this week.

I opened Skyjack to pages 90-92. The descriptions aren't that different. Flo says 6', black hair, black suit. Tina says 5'10 - 6', dark brown hair and suit. Those are close enough that two people could say that while they were both looking at him simultaneously.

One other point -- Tina actually disembarked and talked to law enforcement (maybe FBI, but at least police) before bringing the money back aboard. They almost certainly asked her to make a note of his hair, his height, his eyes, distinguishing features, etc. She would not be trying to recall it later on. You have to put a lot weight on Tina's description.

[EVickiW 0]

skyjack71

***

....or a missing persons report was not filed until August of 2012. In fact, when speaking with the deputy at the Dane County Sheriff's Department, he stated Melvin's fingerprints were found on a card in their files and never uploaded to IAFIS. In fact, as of today, the prints have yet to be uploaded into IAFIS.

***

Well, Vickie that only supports what I have said all along. Do they even have Weber's prints? If your Dad's prints have NEVER been loaded who is to say other individuals have been loaded or perhaps compromised.

Of Course Duane was a mulitple excon, so I am sure they got his prints - but do the prints from Jefferson match the prints from McNeil a file the FBI supposedly used for prints and then turned around and told me that Weber had NEVER been in McNeil!


The FBI said Duane was NOT in McNeil in a conversation in March of 2000.
How can the FBI use the McNeil prints if he was not there?

Statements made by the FBI in this case are laugable! Ridiculous and this is what we have for FBI?

Why can't You as a surving daughter ask for those prints - Hell do your onw comparisons. The information the FBI is supposedly making available - does any of that include the particial prints they are supposedly in possession of? Now I even QUESTION if the FBI has any prints!!

We have the prints and the are in the possession of the University of North Texas (UNT) and uploaded into the NamUs database. I asked the deputy from Pierce County to send them to NamUs...and he did.

The NamUs regional director, and retired homicide detective from Florida, who is in charge of my fathers case called SA Curtis Eng. He has yet to return any phone calls to her. She called 5 weeks ago.

One case scenario...She wants the prints and the DNA they have on the FBI's file. UNT will do the comparisons. The second option is UNT sending what they have to Quantico for comparison. My brother's and my DNA samples are just sitting there....waiting.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[uberalles 0]

A poster named JR posted this response on an Aircraft Wreakage Chasing forum

Username: JR
Message:
I have never heard this story though I have an extensive archive on missing aircraft in the Pacific Northwest. There are at least a dozen airmen missing since 1945 who were able to jump or eject from their stricken aircraftbut were never found and are still missing in Washington and Oregon. However, none of these airmen vanished anywhere close to that area of Oregon. What I am equally surprised is that there appears to beno follow up or investigation of this (at least in the news).

Throughout the 1950s and 1960s there were numerous stories of parachute harnesses or parachutes being found in tall pine trees that werebeing cut down by loggers. Some of these finds correlated to missing airmen who had jumped from their aircraft, but were never found. As I said, there are at least six that I know of that are still missing.

A couple of things to point out. The Sheriff deputies said, "the skull may have been of a hunter or missing pilot." If it was a missing pilot, the AFRCC at Hamilton Field would have had the answers right away as to whothe remains could have possibly belonged to. Unlike today, the AFRCChad good record keeping back in 1975.As far as I know, there were no missing planes in that part of Oregon in 1975. It's possible that the remains could have been from a plane crash that was already recovered, but the crash site was not cleaned up very well. We were notoriously sloppy back in those days.

A secondthing about Oregon is that human remains are always being found throughout the state. In 2010, during a search for two missing climbers on Mount Hood, SAR personnel foundhuman remains that no one had any idea who they belonged to. Neither the county nor the park hadno record of anyone missing on that part of the mountain. As far as I know, the remains have never been identified. I have an article from 1958 that tells of fire fighters fighting a wild fire in Eastern Oregon and finding the remains of a cowboy still rolled up in his ragged blanket at an abandoned camp site. Authorities believed he was a cowboy who could have been dead as long as 80 years.