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DB Cooper

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Bruce Smith says in part:

Quote

'I'm glad that Norman is talking to somebody. He won't talk with me...'



I wouldn't worry. There's probably nothing left to tell. Hayden says the FBI never consulted him later about anything regarding the hijacking. His only dealings with them was when he wrote that letter to get the remaining chute back.

On Hayden's version of events: I think he's telling the truth. Second, I think he's told all he knows anyway. He never jumped with either chute, never saw the canopies. In fact, he said he's never jumped at all. The chutes he bought were 'just in case'.

He said he was aware of Cossey's claim on ownership, but didn't make a big deal of it. The reasons he gave for this attitude were:

1) He KNEW the chutes were his because the FBI returned the remaining one to him, and not Cossey.

2) He figured Cossey was the go-to guy for the FBI regarding the chutes (since Cossey was the only one who actually saw the canopies), and that was fine with him.

Add-on: Hayden said that NWA paid off the rental fee pretty quickly after the hijacking, and he was happy with that. But he wasn't expecting the FBI to appropriate the chute later and not return it. He said it was a rental, and that agreement was plain from the start. This is why he finally applied to get it back from the FBI.

*Attached*: I took the FBI file on Hayden and the chutes and made it into a more readable document. I'm not sure why I said 'condensed PDF' in my original post about it back there. I copied it over word for word from the raggedy-looking FBI paper file from their PDF's. It's just easier to read now.


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I do NOT know what PDF is and it goes to my pictures and I never figure it out at all. Acrobat is what I have, but can't read some of those.

Shutter and Blevins can usually get it in a format I can read. I know VERY little about computers and the programs.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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7. Did Cossey have a memory problem? A cognitive deficit? Or was he just a bad liar – and if so, why was he lying? When we learn the truth of Cossey and his memory, and by extension the cause of his murder, we may be a lot closer to understanding what happened to the FBI’s investigation of DB Cooper.

To me, it is becoming increasingly more plausible that Cossey was part of creating a new image of DB Cooper – one of an incompetent skydiver who died. That action relieves a very real political pressure to lessen the public’s love of Cooper as the guy who beat the system.
Quote



You always wind up bottom feeding and shoot for the political;
prematurely.

At best what you have are contradicting incongruous stories
on the part of multiple individuals, which does not automatically
lead to a conspiracy theory.

For example Haydon: has said multiple times the chutes were
'exactly alike', then above says 'but one was a military version'
(of the other)? That is not alike! Haydon's is just one example.

To complicate things further, your personal bias against
Himmelsbach comes through loud and clear - he won't talk to
you! H is alleged (by you) to have allegedly pushed for Cooper
having died without any firm evidence of the fact. Now you are
enlisting Cossey as a co-conspirator into H's "conspiracy".

What we are left with is confusion. And no good source(s) to
help straighten the confusions out, including the reporter's bias
on top of the other confusions ...

It's not a good model for writing history.

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BruceSmith

***

Quote

There is no question in my mind that Earl Cossey lied to me.

I just don't know why, but I can see how it served a poltical purpose of protecting the FBI's public image and discrediting the guy who beat the system.



Well there's that...

But if you read articles of the day, Cossey was not always advocating the position that Cooper didn't make it. He even said that it wouldn't require someone with a lot of experience.
As for protecting the image and discrediting the guy who beat the system - that hasn't worked out too well for them. They obviously need to go to plan B. :)



Quote



Yes, once again Geoffrey Gray comes to the rescue, and his article in Esquire, May 2013, "The Man Who Believed in DB Cooper" clearly establishes that Cossey once upon a time had a different view of the skyjacker.

Quote



You know different agents do different interviews. To run
across one file may not be representative of all interviews or
the opinions Cossey gave, to several agents, under different
circumstances, over time.

These were never black and white matters, as I see it - in spite
of your bias to assign 'black and white opinions' to certain
individuals in some effort to nail down person X is this vs Y who
is that. What is lacking in Geoff's report is background for
comparison ?

Investigations are never black and white,... up to the point
the corpse is found! Then we can say: "Z is dead".

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skyjack71

I do NOT know what PDF is and it goes to my pictures and I never figure it out at all. Acrobat is what I have, but can't read some of those.

Shutter and Blevins can usually get it in a format I can read. I know VERY little about computers and the programs.



You have Adobe Reader. Not Acrobat. Acrobat is the program used to create the PDF's.

Right-click on a link that contains a PDF file and select 'Save Target As' and pick a place to store it in your My Documents. Wait until the file is saved.

Then...leave Dropzone and open up Adobe Reader.

Hit 'Open' and find the file in My Documents. Click on the file. Then you can read it, even if you have dial-up service.

If you don't have Adobe Reader, download it HERE.

To Everyone Else: I've had an idea that might help with the radio transcripts. I could print them up and copy them over word for word into an organized PDF. No changes. This might make them easier to deal with and (maybe) understand.


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WOW it is usually me (JO) who gets the flack, but you are correct in what you stated. I like Bruce, but he does seem to have the tendancy to bottom feed. I call it Enquirer Syndrome!

He could actually be a great journalist if he would just REPORT instead of taking things apart and putting them back together the way he see it.

Like myself - the way I see things is in prospective of a woman and a 17yr marriage. Bruce goes for the drama with his own bais thrown in - it reads better.

Bruce does seem to alienate individuals he interviews and he needs to NOT let his bias get in the way nor to expound on individuals or what they say - putting the person in a negative prospective. That process usually does NOT result in a second or third interview.

I am going to quote your paragraph below in bold as NO one could have said that any better:

Georger Stated:

What we are left with is confusion. And no good source(s) to
help straighten the confusions out, including the reporter's bias
on top of the other confusions ...

It's not a good model for writing history.


Well....
Don't come down on me - I ain't writin NO book and I ain't tryin to divert the facts. I just want to know the truth! Do U realize I spent 18 yrs married to Weber and now 18 yrs more trying to figure out who I was married to. What a ride this has been!

Married March 1977, Died March 1995 and now March of 2013 has come and gone. I'm tired! I'm exhausted and used up! I can't even do the math anymore.

Did Duane and I have our 17th or our 18th anniversary the day before he died? My thought processes are just about gone!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

WOW it is usually me (JO) who gets the flack, but you are correct in what you stated. I like Bruce, but he does seem to have the tendancy to bottom feed. I call it Enquirer Syndrome!

He could actually be a great journalist if he would just REPORT instead of taking things apart and putting them back together the way he see it.

Like myself - the way I see things is in prospective of a woman and a 17yr marriage. Bruce goes for the drama with his own bais thrown in - it reads better.

Bruce does seem to alienate individuals he interviews and he needs to NOT let his bias get in the way nor to expound on individuals or what they say - putting the person in a negative prospective. That process usually does NOT result in a second or third interview.

I am going to quote your paragraph below in bold as NO one could have said that any better:

Georger Stated:

What we are left with is confusion. And no good source(s) to
help straighten the confusions out, including the reporter's bias
on top of the other confusions ...

It's not a good model for writing history.


Well....
Don't come down on me - I ain't writin NO book and I ain't tryin to divert the facts. I just want to know the truth! Do U realize I spent 18 yrs married to Weber and now 18 yrs more trying to figure out who I was married to. What a ride this has been!

Married March 1977, Died March 1995 and now March of 2013 has come and gone. I'm tired! I'm exhausted and used up! I can't even do the math anymore.

Did Duane and I have our 17th or our 18th anniversary the day before he died? My thought processes are just about gone!



Enjoy the holiday.
Maybe watch CNN or news, for news of Airtwardo and his team
in St Louis. I really hope they make it!

Maybe someone will post a link where we can see some video
or stills? That would be nice. If they do I will personally post it to two corporate bulletin boards for thousands to see - world-wide.

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Thank You - seems like you have to walk me thru this ever time. Like I said the brain is shutting down - I just cannot learn new things and some of what I know is slipping away from me.

Rewriting the transcripts would probably confuse everyone - I know it would me.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71


Thank You - seems like you have to walk me thru this ever time. Like I said the brain is shutting down - I just cannot learn new things and some of what I know is slipping away from me.

Rewriting the transcripts would probably confuse everyone - I know it would me.



Do you have Abode Reader - yes or no?

Click your START button and look under PROGRAMS.

If you have Adobe Reader you can read Pdf's.

Let's first establish that you have Adobe Reader!

It's YES or NO!

Look now! and report back ...:D:D:D

Can you do that much, to look? report back... asap

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Enjoy the holiday.
Maybe watch CNN or news, for news of Airtwardo and his team
in St Louis. I really hope they make it!



Thank You - as that is exactly what I was getting ready to do. Sign off and take my medication and try to sleep and tomorrow might be a better day.
Pain has become the norm and my only escape is sleep...and weird dreams.

Last night I woke up shouting - "NO you are not the right damn Dr...he's dead!" Seems like I was trying to find the Dr. who saw Duane during his meltdown in 1990 when he went on the kidney machine. The dream made NO sense! I think I was the one seeing the Dr for myself and then suddenly it was about Duane! Go figure after 18 yrs I really need a psychiatrist, but I also know what they do with one's memories. Last thing I need is for someone to confuse things even more.

Good Night to All!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

Quote



Enjoy the holiday.
Maybe watch CNN or news, for news of Airtwardo and his team
in St Louis. I really hope they make it!



Thank You - as that is exactly what I was getting ready to do. Sign off and take my medication and try to sleep and tomorrow might be a better day.
Pain has become the norm and my only escape is sleep...and weird dreams.

Last night I woke up shouting - "NO you are not the right damn Dr...he's dead!" Seems like I was trying to find the Dr. who saw Duane during his meltdown in 1990 when he went on the kidney machine. The dream made NO sense! I think I was the one seeing the Dr for myself and then suddenly it was about Duane! Go figure after 18 yrs I really need a physcologist, but I also know what they do with one's memories. Last thing I need is for someone to confuse things even more.

Good Night to All!



OK - we will look for your Adobe Reader tomorrow.

I have to go do something else -

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Enjoy the holiday.
Maybe watch CNN or news, for news of Airtwardo and his team
in St Louis. I really hope they make it!

Maybe someone will post a link where we can see some video
or stills? That would be nice. If they do I will personally post it to two corporate bulletin boards for thousands to see - world-wide.



LOL...we'll make it. On time & on target.

The tough one will be the Busch stadium jump. Stadiums are notorious for eating Skydivers, any wind at all and it swirls inside like a toilet bowl. Takes some seat of the pants flying to get in & walk away. Stadiums require a 'Professional Demonstration Skydiver' rating & they don't give those out for S&H Green Stamps.B|

Won't be able to make a practice jump into it... so it's going in cold - for ALL the marbles. :D

But hey...if it was EASY, everybody would be doin' it! ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

***'My "negativity" embraces others in addition to your self, such as BK and Blevins. The reason is that you (plural) deal mainly in bullshit, and I am not interested in that commodity...'



_______________________________________________

Blevins wrote::

...... You got a LOT of nerve putting my name into the same sentence as Bob Knoss'.
.....

_______________________________________________


I don't have a problem doing that. MeyerLouie

BK makes up fantasy. I do NOT.


Actually you do, Blevins....you just do it in your own special way.

MeyerLouie


_______________________________________________

......I've finished one book since then that is being edited (non-Cooper), another is ready for editing, (non-Cooper crime novel) and I'm working on a third. The last one is Cooper-related but doesn't try to solve the case.

Cooper to me is more of a hobby.

_______________________________________________


So, it sounds like you are just too darn busy to be here. Maybe it's time to take up a new hobby, Blevie. With all that money you and AB are making off this forum, sounds like you're going to be able to retire soon. By the way, where's that damn spreadsheet? Just want to make sure you guys aren't cookin' the books.

We all know the only reason you're here -- to peddle your wares. And that's why you should be permanently banned from this forum.

How do you do it, Blevins? You are juggling 3 edits, writing Cooperland, going out with models, consulting psychics, getting lost in the woods, doing DZ as a hobby, dumping the Subie, going to Ariel DB Cooper Days, and fantasizing about 3-breasted women with a bunch of horses? You're even more amazing than Martha Stewart -- without the jail time, of course (you've never been to jail, right?). You're one amazing guy, Blevie -- and you've even squeezed in Auburn Days.

So there's lots of other hobbies in the world besides the Cooper thread. I'm into oil painting and music. Maybe try those -- oh yeah, you play guitar by the campfire and sing "Cum Ba Yah" -- I forgot -- that's what you do when you've got all that time to kill when you're lost in the woods for a whole month. Why not take up body-building? From what I saw, you could use a little more muscle mass.

In short, Blevie, there's lots of other hobbies out there to do. I know ..... the Cooper case is just spit on the windshield for ya. So much to do, so little time to do it...

MeyerLouie

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The tough one will be the Busch stadium jump. Stadiums are notorious for eating Skydivers, any wind at all and it swirls inside like a toilet bowl. Takes some seat of the pants flying to get in & walk away. Stadiums require a 'Professional Demonstration Skydiver' rating & they don't give those out for S&H Green Stamps.




YouTube has a few videos that demonstrate hungry stadiums munching on demo jumpers. Orthopedic surgeons love stadium jumps.

Be careful Airtwardo. I watched Jim Wallace abort a stadium approach before he reached the point of no return and land outside. It was the right choice.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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RobertMBlevins

Bruce Smith says in part:

Quote

'I'm glad that Norman is talking to somebody. He won't talk with me...'



I wouldn't worry. There's probably nothing left to tell. Hayden says the FBI never consulted him later about anything regarding the hijacking. His only dealings with them was when he wrote that letter to get the remaining chute back.

On Hayden's version of events: I think he's telling the truth. Second, I think he's told all he knows anyway. He never jumped with either chute, never saw the canopies. In fact, he said he's never jumped at all. The chutes he bought were 'just in case'.

He said he was aware of Cossey's claim on ownership, but didn't make a big deal of it. The reasons he gave for this attitude were:

1) He KNEW the chutes were his because the FBI returned the remaining one to him, and not Cossey.

2) He figured Cossey was the go-to guy for the FBI regarding the chutes (since Cossey was the only one who actually saw the canopies), and that was fine with him.

Add-on: Hayden said that NWA paid off the rental fee pretty quickly after the hijacking, and he was happy with that. But he wasn't expecting the FBI to appropriate the chute later and not return it. He said it was a rental, and that agreement was plain from the start. This is why he finally applied to get it back from the FBI.

*Attached*: I took the FBI file on Hayden and the chutes and made it into a more readable document. I'm not sure why I said 'condensed PDF' in my original post about it back there. I copied it over word for word from the raggedy-looking FBI paper file from their PDF's. It's just easier to read now.



_______________________________________________


Hey Blevins,

Don't have a heart attack, but I have to pay you a compliment. This is really a good post -- it has substance, it's informative, it's based on your hard work and research. So, you really can do it. Keep doing it.

MeyerLouie

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skyjack71


Thank You - seems like you have to walk me thru this ever time. Like I said the brain is shutting down - I just cannot learn new things and some of what I know is slipping away from me.

Rewriting the transcripts would probably confuse everyone - I know it would me.



Nah. It would just make them easier to read and understand. I have looked at these transcripts. It's a job to convert them all right. So many pages to do. But I can do it if anyone wants it. Probably take a month or two, though. Weekend work. Summer is coming and some of those weekends I will be gone, but it sounds interesting. :)


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377

Quote

The tough one will be the Busch stadium jump. Stadiums are notorious for eating Skydivers, any wind at all and it swirls inside like a toilet bowl. Takes some seat of the pants flying to get in & walk away. Stadiums require a 'Professional Demonstration Skydiver' rating & they don't give those out for S&H Green Stamps.




YouTube has a few videos that demonstrate hungry stadiums munching on demo jumpers. Orthopedic surgeons love stadium jumps.

Be careful Airtwardo. I watched Jim Wallace abort a stadium approach before he reached the point of no return and land outside. It was the right choice.

377



Yeah...the then new Giants Stadium, right? - I gave him that gig because I was double booked that date, I was jumping pyro into a stadium across the country.

More to 'that' story than meets the eye...but that's a story I'll share with ya over a chilly one sometime. ;)

If you're in the area stop on by! ~ B|
http://www.goldenwestflyin.org/










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

***

Quote

The tough one will be the Busch stadium jump. Stadiums are notorious for eating Skydivers, any wind at all and it swirls inside like a toilet bowl. Takes some seat of the pants flying to get in & walk away. Stadiums require a 'Professional Demonstration Skydiver' rating & they don't give those out for S&H Green Stamps.




YouTube has a few videos that demonstrate hungry stadiums munching on demo jumpers. Orthopedic surgeons love stadium jumps.

Be careful Airtwardo. I watched Jim Wallace abort a stadium approach before he reached the point of no return and land outside. It was the right choice.

377



Yeah...the then new Giants Stadium, right? - I gave him that gig because I was double booked that date, I was jumping pyro into a stadium across the country.

More to 'that' story than meets the eye...but that's a story I'll share with ya over a chilly one sometime. ;)

If you're in the area stop on by! ~ B|
http://www.goldenwestflyin.org/

With my 1000+ demo's, and half being stadiums, some times I miss those days, then the old ankles and knees remind me why I slowed and eventually stopped doing them, then I do not miss it, too much (but I still do to a degree!).

For now, I will stick with my PD/LEO training, and fun jumping a few times a year, with the few ratings courses thrown in for the Mil guys (for free to them).

Have some great jumps Brother!
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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it's been several weeks now, I can't seem to match the time frames from Toledo to Merwin/Lewis river.
I have no problems matching from take off to Toledo, arriving at 7:59. I am ending my flight time at the Lewis river crossing with a time of 34 minutes of flight. 34 minute and 22 seconds.

If you add the flight time according to the map, it's 33 minutes. if you use my time frame, it's 34 minutes?
this throws off the time slots on the map by one minute. I'm still a little confused at this point and need
guidance on these findings.

I have included a map with estimations only of where the plane was from start to finish.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

it's been several weeks now, I can't seem to match the time frames from Toledo to Merwin/Lewis river.
I have no problems matching from take off to Toledo, arriving at 7:59. I am ending my flight time at the Lewis river crossing with a time of 34 minutes of flight. 34 minute and 22 seconds.

If you add the flight time according to the map, it's 33 minutes. if you use my time frame, it's 34 minutes?
this throws off the time slots on the map by one minute. I'm still a little confused at this point and need
guidance on these findings.

I have included a map with estimations only of where the plane was from start to finish.



Remember some posts back when I was examining the maps a few wks ago. I kept saying "Give me one Fricking minute". Just one minute North and it changes the landing zone.

It puts Cooper right where he needed to be - at least for me and what I think from the 1979 trip and the 2010 trip. ONE fricking minute and then everything correlates with everything else - meaning the places he took me and what I now believe to have been the escape route used by Cooper. (I base this on things Duane showed me and told me - and my memory of the places he took me and the things he showed me - but did NOT mention Cooper in those areas).

Cooper was mention only ONE time on that trip and I thought it was a joke. Considering the area at that time we were in - I think it may have been! My mind wants to go back but my body screams NO.

When I was out there in 2010 - the areas looked so different, but I was able to associate time and space and that was a plus.

Now there are areas I need to go back to but, that is physically impossible for me at this time.

I may NEVER get to go back. Now I have to put things in the hands of anyone who can or cares to help. I can talk better than I can walk or sit at this computer. There are those who have my contact information so if I need to verbalize some of what I remember - please do NOT hesitate to call.

Right now for some reason I am crying and I should be elated. A lot of mixed feelings and the pain medication I think intensifies emotions.

Here is wishing AirTwardo a safe jump!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

***it's been several weeks now, I can't seem to match the time frames from Toledo to Merwin/Lewis river.
I have no problems matching from take off to Toledo, arriving at 7:59. I am ending my flight time at the Lewis river crossing with a time of 34 minutes of flight. 34 minute and 22 seconds.

If you add the flight time according to the map, it's 33 minutes. if you use my time frame, it's 34 minutes?
this throws off the time slots on the map by one minute. I'm still a little confused at this point and need
guidance on these findings.

I have included a map with estimations only of where the plane was from start to finish.



Remember some posts back when I was examining the maps a few wks ago. I kept saying "Give me one Fricking minute". Just one minute North and it changes the landing zone.

It puts Cooper right where he needed to be - at least for me and what I think from the 1979 trip and the 2010 trip. ONE fricking minute and then everything correlates with everything else - meaning the places he took me and what I now believe to have been the escape route used by Cooper. (I base this on things Duane showed me and told me - and my memory of the places he took me and the things he showed me - but did NOT mention Cooper in those areas).

Cooper was mention only ONE time on that trip and I thought it was a joke. Considering the area at that time we were in - I think it may have been! My mind wants to go back but my body screams NO.

When I was out there in 2010 - the areas looked so different, but I was able to associate time and space and that was a plus.

Now there are areas I need to go back to but, that is physically impossible for me at this time.

I may NEVER get to go back. Now I have to put things in the hands of anyone who can or cares to help. I can talk better than I can walk or sit at this computer. There are those who have my contact information so if I need to verbalize some of what I remember - please do NOT hesitate to call.

Right now for some reason I am crying and I should be elated. A lot of mixed feelings and the pain medication I think intensifies emotions.

Here is wishing AirTwardo a safe jump!

keep in mind that I am still in the testing stages, this does not confirm anything at this moment. these are issue's that have came up in the testing process. nothing should be taken as proof one way or another at this point. I had similar problems in the first part of the path, these were adjusted and didn't affect the path.

at this point I could be doing something wrong in this leg of the path, so we must halt any conclusions at this point. I wouldn't be sure of wanting this time frame, it would put him in the lake if he bailed at 20:11. B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Something is wrong here - perhaps it is the maps that the FBI provided and Sluggo provided that are wrong.

The assimilation has the plane WEST of LaCenter when it was EAST of LaCenter. Hell, I can't read the damn things anyway. The map of Sluggos I am going by you can hardly read the areas it is over and planes did NOT turn at angles - they were curves.

My Simple Simon mind sees a problem is with the angles which should be curves. Could or would a curve account for seconds lost/or gained for the route during the entire trip from Seattle to Portland?

Maybe Simple Simon is not so dumb at all if turning the turns into curves and not angle accounts for seconds lost - how many such turns were on the entire trip from Seattle to Portland?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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