DB Cooper

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

Smokin99 says in part:

Quote

'Robert:
Read every word carefully so you will fully understand what I am posting. I DID NOT say that Robin Powell got the adjoining lot. I DID NOT say that you said that Robin Powell got the adjoining lot. WHAT I SAID was...the warranty deed that you, Robertmblevins, posted and put in your report and on your website, the one that you said was the deed for the adjoining lot purchased by Kenny for 10.00 (that's what you said before you changed it to 10.00 and other consideration) IS NOT FOR THE ADJOINING LOT.

The deed that you posted in your pdf document is for the lot with the house on it - the same property that was later willed to Robin Powell...'

Repeat after me...the warranty deed that I, RobertmBlevins, posted, was for the lot with the house that was later willed to Robin Powell. The deed was --NOT-- NOT--- NOT for the adjoining lot that was willed to Kenneth Brian McWilliams...'

That's right. And I have examined the other document, the one done by the Grimes' couple not in October, but the previous June. And what I'm doing right now is having an expert compare those documents and try to come to a conclusion about them. And...he is researching the property records for me. When I know, you'll know. Until then, I am releasing nothing further.

Let's get a couple of things straight here. First, I am not the person who put forward that Kenny Christiansen bought that house for cash. You are MISINFORMED. That was Geoffrey Gray back in 2007, and he re-interated that point in his book in 2010. You understand this, correct? Geoffrey Gray...said...Kenny....bought the house for cash. I have questioned him on it, but not for a long time. He says YES. I asked if he was sure. Also YES. So I took his word for it. Today: Maybe there is doubt on this, so I am going to attempt to find the truth. And I know this is ambigious, but from what I have seen, what I have examined, and from certain witness testimony, I think the whole thing on Kenny's house, and the financials on it, as well as who was involved, smells to high heaven. That's an opinion.

In reality, you should be going to GRAY on this question. I am not a real-estate expert. But I do know how to find resources and use them when needed. This is why I am having the property researched by someone who actually knows what they are doing, and letting HIM work with the docs. That way, I can be assured of the truth.

The case I helped build against Kenny Christiansen does not rely so much on money, but on motive, whereabouts at the time of the crime, the testimony of witnesses, pictures (to a degree) and other things. Much is circumstantial, but it is a GREAT DEAL of circumstantial. It is not a myth.

However, since I can't be absolutely sure, other proof is required. I will always believe it is a simple road to the truth on Christiansen, but I am not able to hit the on-ramp for that road. This must be done by either a legit media source, or the Seattle FBI. My opinion is that it is now beyond the scope of citizen sleuths. Until then, it will always be impossible to prove that Kenny Christiansen was DB Cooper.

But there are other issues that are put forth without proof. Maybe some people's memory are faulty. For instance, you said that KC lent $5000 cash to a Geestman's sister, a ssingle woman with four children. She paid him back in two years, according to Blast. Your comment is how could someone as poorly paid as Kenny have $5000 to lend? On the other side, how could a single woman with four children come up with a $5000 in two years to pay him back? Think about the cost of living. Minimum wage in 1971 was $1.85 per hour. A person making double minimum wage and working full time earned about $7000 per year. How did this woman come up with that money? If it was a refinance, that would be recorded. On the other hand, what if it wasn't $5000. What if it was $500?

p.s. In this article, you do say that KC purchased his house for cash. It's from 2011, but it's still on your web site.

http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2011/08/04/7257905-the-25-best-reasons-kenny-christiansen-could-be-skyjacker-db-cooper

[ParrotheadVol 70]

mrshutter45

more confusion.....

Blevins seems to believe that Geestman was either an accomplice or knew about the crime. why would he need to borrow $5,000?? one would think Bernie would have Kenny in a stranglehold.

If he was part of the crime, he should be loaded.
If he was aware Kenny did it, one would think Geestman wouldn't have to ask for a loan.

Also, if he was aware that Kenny did it, and was with Kenny at the time, why would he admit on TV that Kenny could be the hijacker? He would be incriminating himself.

Now, I know the answer to this will be that he didn't know that witnesses had put him and Kenny together on that weekend. My answer to that is this: He probably don't care about the DB Cooper case. As a result, he probably has absolutely no recollection of where he was or who he was with over 40 years ago on that weekend. If he did, when asked about Kenny being the hijacker, he would have said "no way, I was with Kenny on that weekend". He says Kenny could be the hijacker, not realizing he an eye witness that KC was not Dan Cooper. Just my 2 cents.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[ParrotheadVol 70]

Off topic, but has anyone else been receiving spam through their private message inbox here on DZ? I just received the following PM:


Hello My Dear,

Greetings, it is my pleasure to contact you after going through your profile.I expect that you are not going to let down this trust am about to repose on you for the fact that we have not yet known or written to each other before. Though I will not compel you to honor this proposal,against your will, but first let me introduce myself to you.

My name is Ms. Sofia Johnson from Ivory Coast West Africa.I am the only child of my late parents and that has made me to run away from our family house because my uncles and my step mother is after my life as they want to have full access to my inheritance.

My dream is to find somebody overseas whom I can trust with my future life and inheritance, also who can be able to assist me for relocation abroad and also assist me in my investment plans abroad. I am seriously searching for a very reliable person, who will assist me in this investment plans over there.

I have some reasonable amount worth 4.500,000$ USD which I inherited from my late father who was a traditional ruler and an international business man before his sudden death.Presently I am ready to relocate out of this country and come over there to your area,in order to secure a resident permit and investment establishment in luctrative avenues.I wish to invest in areas like (Hospital Equipment, Transportation, Agricultural Project and Real Estate).

I need to invest the money in your base because of my the political instability here.Please your assistance is highly needed to enable me achieve my educational career in your country.
Your urgent response is needed so that I will give you full details on my plans for relocating to your country for these establishment.Please should in case if you are not in a good position to work with me on this aspect.I will appreciate you inform me immediately.
waiting for your urgent response.
Faithfully
Reply to my private e-mail box. ([email protected])

Ms.Sofia Johnson

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[sailshaw 0]

Grey Cop

Too bad you were not at our "Sleuths at the Museum" get together yesterday. I would have like to talk to you about your Kenney suspect that is too short (5ft 8in) and not of olive skin color.

Anyway we met at the Tacoma Museum of Washington History at 2:30 pm and had a good round of discussion and then gathered across the street at the Harmon Brewery for drinks and dinner. Those there were: Ron and Pat Forman, Bruce Smith, MeyerLouis, Wayne Cooke, Mark Bennett, and Bob Sailshaw. The first round of beer supplied by Mark 377. We had a great time and exchanges a lot of information.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Georger says in part:

Quote

'Do you suppose Blevins was wrong about the Janet Story too?

Blevins is now in the same soup as Marla who he so severely condemned ... on moral grounds!

That Marla!
That woman!
That Blevins!...'

Reality Hotel: Penthouse Suite (Room reserved)

The reason I don't believe Marla's story is because none of her family would back her on it, even though they were there, and because of her Facebook postings after she went public, (some attached below) and maybe the results of an interview I did with her.

The reason I don't believe Janet's story is because it doesn't make any sense. Unless you think she really saw Cooper tossing off flares at 10k feet several thousand feet above cloud cover and rain on Flight 305.

You actually BELIEVE those things? LOL, give me a break. I would like to hear you explain why you do. Should be entertaining for sure.

any piece of Ghana spam that starts out: Reality Hotel:
Penthouse Suite (Room reserved) ....

is a sign of rank immaturity I do not responde to...

Better the troll sending this crap should get a room in his
own saide hotel.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Georger says in part:

Quote

'Do you suppose Blevins was wrong about the Janet Story too?

Blevins is now in the same soup as Marla who he so severely condemned ... on moral grounds!

That Marla!
That woman!
That Blevins!...'

Reality Hotel: Penthouse Suite (Room reserved)

The reason I don't believe Marla's story is because none of her family would back her on it, even though they were there, and because of her Facebook postings after she went public, (some attached below) and maybe the results of an interview I did with her.

The reason I don't believe Janet's story is because it doesn't make any sense. Unless you think she really saw Cooper tossing off flares at 10k feet several thousand feet above cloud cover and rain on Flight 305.

You actually BELIEVE those things? LOL, give me a break. I would like to hear you explain why you do. Should be entertaining for sure.

Hey Einstein at Adventire Books!

The subject is JANET! Not MARLA!

What do posts between Blevins and Marla have to do with
JANET ___________, who he has never interviewed! ?

Clearly it you who needs to stop posting in behalf of
RobertMBlevins! When you cant even keep straight what the
subject is; Janet vs Marla !

Next time you post wth an old worn out script, check the
subject line.

Do you masters at Adventire Books even know what day it is!?

[mrshutter45 21]

ParrotheadVol

***more confusion.....

Blevins seems to believe that Geestman was either an accomplice or knew about the crime. why would he need to borrow $5,000?? one would think Bernie would have Kenny in a stranglehold.

If he was part of the crime, he should be loaded.
If he was aware Kenny did it, one would think Geestman wouldn't have to ask for a loan.

Also, if he was aware that Kenny did it, and was with Kenny at the time, why would he admit on TV that Kenny could be the hijacker? He would be incriminating himself.

Now, I know the answer to this will be that he didn't know that witnesses had put him and Kenny together on that weekend. My answer to that is this: He probably don't care about the DB Cooper case. As a result, he probably has absolutely no recollection of where he was or who he was with over 40 years ago on that weekend. If he did, when asked about Kenny being the hijacker, he would have said "no way, I was with Kenny on that weekend". He says Kenny could be the hijacker, not realizing he an eye witness that KC was not Dan Cooper. Just my 2 cents.


"Also, if he was aware that Kenny did it, and was with Kenny at the time, why would he admit on TV that Kenny could be the hijacker? He would be incriminating himself."

Doesn't really matter, he would not be charged with anything. they want the guy who jump out of the plane. Decoded even told him he was clear from prosecution. I'll bet money they would all sing a different tune if it got serious enough.

Personally, I think Lyle is behind the whole thing. surely he has seen the story many times over. his own brother worked for the same airline. decades later he see's a show?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

"Off topic, but has anyone else been receiving spam through their private message inbox here on DZ? I just received the following PM:"


I got 3 of them today.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Robert:
Read every word carefully so you will fully understand what I am posting. I DID NOT say that Robin Powell got the adjoining lot. I DID NOT say that you said that Robin Powell got the adjoining lot.
WHAT I SAID was...the warranty deed that you, Robertmblevins, posted and put in your report and on your website, the one that you said was the deed for the adjoining lot purchased by Kenny for 10.00 (that's what you said before you changed it to 10.00 and other consideration) IS NOT FOR THE ADJOINING LOT.

The deed that you posted in your pdf document is for the lot with the house on it - the same property that was later willed to Robin Powell.

Repeat after me...the warranty deed that I, RobertmBlevins, posted, was for the lot with the house that was later willed to Robin Powell. The deed was --NOT-- NOT--- NOT for the adjoining lot that was willed to Kenneth Brian McWilliams.

Now to address your other points...the reason that you should provide accurate information is because you wrote a book that has misleading and/or false information. This is not about Margie or Bernie or anyone else that told you stuff about Kenny. This is about the fact that you all wrote that you could prove that Kenny paid cash for a lot of stuff after the hijacking, including the house and property. You said this was based on REAL, VERIFIABLE DOCUMENTATION. The point of paying cash was used, by you, as further "evidence" to make you, Robertmblevins, 98% sure that Kenny was the hijacker. I agree Geoff Gray should not have suggested that KC paid out a lot of cash either if he can't back it up. But that does not relieve you from having accurate documentation to back up YOUR claims in your book.

I don't care if you go to Tacoma or not. Or who you have look at whatever you have. All I was telling you is that if you want to try and prove anything about KC (or not), all of the real estate documentation is not a state secret. It is public record probably at the courthouse. In other words, Kenny might remain a mystery but the property documents don't need to.
Unless you purposefully did not want to fully vet your claims, I'm surprised that you guys haven't already checked this out.

Believe it or not, this isn't about you or whether or not someone believes that KC is the hijacker. This is about the DATA. You made claims about Kenny Christiansen. Now maybe those claims about spending a lot of cash are true. So if you uncover real documentation that proves that KC was throwing around cash after the hijacking then good for you. But so far the documentation that you have posted shows the exact opposite of paying cash since the deed for the house and property that you posted is subject to a mortgage and promissory note that Kenny will have to pay.

But let's be clear.... it is what it is. Having Benjamin Franklin read it is not going to change what it is, nor will your theories about it.

And until you can provide documentation that proves your claims - it's just another myth. No better or more believable than somebody saying his daddy had a safe deposit box in Canada with all the money in it. Or threw it off a bridge in a paper bag.
And when, on top of this, you have the gall to ask others for proof of what they present, all I can say is tis truly mind-boggling.

Smokin99

====================

Oh, Wow!

Glad I wasn't the one on the other end of that post, but I am glad someone actually STATED what had to be said & perhaps put and end to the endless retoric.

AHH! That is an idealist concept! He will remain here promoting his book until the FBI finally reveals who Cooper was or the thread closes down!

my life with a man who told me he was Dan Cooper and a ticket I held in my own hands. Can I prove it - I damn sure wish I could! Is it true or is JO the World Greatest Liar?

NOT hardly!

Am I a crazy old lady who imagines things or playing out a fantasy? We are all a little crazy or eccentric and perhaps I go to the extremes, but that is just the way it is.

Am I lieing - NO! I will swear to that on my death bed or before any court of law out there, but there is NONE so high than the last judgement call!

As for notariety - well, there are better ways one could have spent the last 18 yrs. I have NOTHING to gain, but I sure have lost a lot of my life in this thread and in my struggle to prove Weber was Cooper. I have put everything into this I could and more. When I came here looking for help I never dreamt 7 yrs later I would still be sitting at this computer doing what I do.

That will change in the very near future!
WELL, 377 miracles do happen!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

MarkBennett

But there are other issues that are put forth without proof. Maybe some people's memory are faulty. For instance, you said that KC lent $5000 cash to a Geestman's sister, a ssingle woman with four children. She paid him back in two years, according to Blast. Your comment is how could someone as poorly paid as Kenny have $5000 to lend? On the other side, how could a single woman with four children come up with a $5000 in two years to pay him back? Think about the cost of living. Minimum wage in 1971 was $1.85 per hour. A person making double minimum wage and working full time earned about $7000 per year. How did this woman come up with that money? If it was a refinance, that would be recorded. On the other hand, what if it wasn't $5000. What if it was $500?

Ahhh! The voice of LOGIC. Why didn't I think about that - darn it! Someone is really stopping and thinking this thru.

Even at $2.50 per hour she only made $100 per wk. Have to remember SS and taxes. Back then I do not remember if you could elect NOT to have the taxes taken out.

If she was divorced she might have had child support - but if her case was the same as my divorce in 1971 - he paid when he damn well felt like it and there was nothing one could do other hold down 2 jobs. Who could afford the money for an attorney and the time off from work....providing a roof over head and food for the table was the objective. Car repairs forget it - take the bus or walk.

I made the rent & utilities, but food sometimes was scarce and absolutely no eating out or movies or allowances. One time when his check bounced around 1974 I was doing without lunch & breakfast until my boss found out & they made sure I had a meal in the cafeteria. I was walking from just outside the Perimentor of Atlanta to the Clayton County Hospital every morning and every evening for a long time....that was a fast road and they didn't mow the grass along the road. Tough Cookie that is what my Dr. calls me! There was NO bus run and if there was I didn't have the bus fare.

A divorced woman with children did not have it easy in the 70's. One time when I only had one dollar to my name - I put my two girls in the car and put that dollars worth of gas in the tank - I cried all the way to the county office to ask for FOOD STAMPS. I am crying as I tell this - it was the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life! Ask for charity.

They gave me - the only white person in the office a book of ample emergency food stamps. We got thru that crisis with those food stamps and I called the woman and told her not to process the application. I was grateful for the assistance I received - but it was humiliating.

I lost my job due the vehicle problems and put my stuff in storage and took the kids with me to see my sister and then took the kids to FL to see their Granny - I went back to GA as a friend had offered me a place to stay & I found a good job.

It was time for School to start and one of my daughters decided to stay in FL at that time. She was 15 going on 16 in Dec. I took the younger one with me and we did ok. My job was the SAME job I was working at when I met Duane in 1976.

Didn't mean to tell my personal life here, but at this stage of my life - so what? I never became a charity case nor did I ever depend on charity. There was NO way during those yrs - I could have repaid a $5000. loan back in 2 yrs.

The VOICE of experience! Been there Done that!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

Lets see....Kc was making $512 a month.

The National Average Wage Index in 1971 was $6497.08 (Social Security website)
Kenny pulled in $6144.00...poorly paid?

The Federal Minimum Wage Rate in 1971 was $1.60
Kenny was at about $3.20

Home Sales Average price was $24,300
Kenny paid $14,000

Gas was about 36-40 cents a gallon
Milk was $1.18
Dozen eggs .53 cents

Kenny sat on his property and records show it was worth it. how does anyone know if he borrowed off this at any given time?

I still don't see anything but a bunch of he said she said Mumbo Jumbo

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

Lets see....Kc was making $512 a month.

The National Average Wage Index in 1971 was $6497.08 (Social Security website)

Kenny pulled in $6144.00...poorly paid?

The Federal Minimum Wage Rate in 1971 was $1.60
Kenny was at about $3.20

Home Sales Average price was $24,300
Kenny paid $14,000

Gas was about 36-40 cents a gallon
Milk was $1.18
Dozen eggs .53 cents

Kenny sat on his property and records show it was worth it. how does anyone know if he borrowed off this at any given time?

I still don't see anything but a bunch of he said she said Mumbo Jumbo

Jo asked if SS deduction was mandatory in 71 with your
employer. If you had an employer who didnt ask and wasn;t
deducting, then you were in trouble. (The employer was also
potentially in trouble with the IRS. I know several who were
closed down and ruined by the fines alone... after not paying
any taxes on their employees AND pocketing '1 deduction' for
each employee supposedly paying into SS... ) Employers who
were pulling this stunt is where the concept of "independent
contractor" began!

Otherwise it was basically up to the employer and the employee
what deductions were made, if your employer didn't
automatically do it for you which most did. You were given a
form and filled it out declaring number of deductions. Most wrote
down one. But you also had the option, if the employer allowed
it, of saying "no (zero) deductions" which meant your taxes
weren't paid at the end of the year and you had to declare your
income and pay any tax owed ... some who chose zero
deductions then found themselves behind the eight ball owing
the IRS and the IRS persued such people.

But generally most employers just filled out the form for you
and wrote down "1" deduction...

Is that how you remember it?

[mrshutter45 21]

georger

***Lets see....Kc was making $512 a month.

The National Average Wage Index in 1971 was $6497.08 (Social Security website)
Kenny pulled in $6144.00...poorly paid?

The Federal Minimum Wage Rate in 1971 was $1.60
Kenny was at about $3.20

Home Sales Average price was $24,300
Kenny paid $14,000

Gas was about 36-40 cents a gallon
Milk was $1.18
Dozen eggs .53 cents

Kenny sat on his property and records show it was worth it. how does anyone know if he borrowed off this at any given time?

I still don't see anything but a bunch of he said she said Mumbo Jumbo

Jo asked if SS deduction was mandatory in 71 with your
employer. If you had an employer who didnt ask and wasn;t
deducting, then you were in trouble. (The employer was also
potentially in trouble with the IRS. I know several who were
closed down and ruined by the fines alone...)

Otherwise it was basically up to the employer and the employee
what deductions were made. You were given a form and filled it
out declaring number of deductions. Most wrote down one.
But you also had the option, if the employer allowed it, of saying
"no (zero) deductions" which meant your taxes weren't paid at
the end of the year and you had to declare your income and pay
any tax owed ... some who chose zero deductions then found
themselves behind the eight ball owing the IRS and the IRS
persued such people.

But generally most employers just filled out the form for you
and wrote down "1" deduction...

Is that how you remember it?

the only way is if they put you on a 1099. I have to do this because I have my own business. nobody will pay me unless I have a corporation. I think Jo is familiar with the old 1099.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

******Lets see....Kc was making $512 a month.

The National Average Wage Index in 1971 was $6497.08 (Social Security website)
Kenny pulled in $6144.00...poorly paid?

The Federal Minimum Wage Rate in 1971 was $1.60
Kenny was at about $3.20

Home Sales Average price was $24,300
Kenny paid $14,000

Gas was about 36-40 cents a gallon
Milk was $1.18
Dozen eggs .53 cents

Kenny sat on his property and records show it was worth it. how does anyone know if he borrowed off this at any given time?

I still don't see anything but a bunch of he said she said Mumbo Jumbo

Jo asked if SS deduction was mandatory in 71 with your
employer. If you had an employer who didnt ask and wasn;t
deducting, then you were in trouble. (The employer was also
potentially in trouble with the IRS. I know several who were
closed down and ruined by the fines alone...)

Otherwise it was basically up to the employer and the employee
what deductions were made. You were given a form and filled it
out declaring number of deductions. Most wrote down one.
But you also had the option, if the employer allowed it, of saying
"no (zero) deductions" which meant your taxes weren't paid at
the end of the year and you had to declare your income and pay
any tax owed ... some who chose zero deductions then found
themselves behind the eight ball owing the IRS and the IRS
persued such people.

But generally most employers just filled out the form for you
and wrote down "1" deduction...

Is that how you remember it?

the only way is if they put you on a 1099. I have to do this because I have my own business. nobody will pay me unless I have a corporation. I think Jo is familiar with the old 1099.

agree -

[skyjack71 0]

Thanks Georger...I knew they had to take the SS but I was referring to federal taxes - I really could not remember.

The more deductions the less they took out of your check - at least that is the way I remember it. If you declared 3 on your form and then at tax time you only declared yourself - then you would owe Uncle a few green bills.

By declaring only 1 you actually paid more and then when you filed your taxes you declared yourself, your wife, and 2 children and you got money returned to you in the form of a refund check! Like forcing yourself to save money - letting Uncle Sam hold it for you.

SS was on the individual earning the income.
Federal tax is where you chose the number of exemptions.

Husb with wife not working and 2 children was 4 ....his pay check was larger using all the deductions.

Husb with wife not working and 2 children declares only himself and then when he filed taxes at the end of the yr declares 4 - he gets money back in the form a return.

Our income was commissions and yet one or both usually worked for a pay check at some point in the yr. SS is only paid on the individual earning the check.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

My recommendations are, in this order:

1) Skyjack - by Geoffrey Gray.

2) D.B. Cooper - Dead or Alive? by Richard Tosaw.

3) Norjack - The Investigation of D.B. Cooper by Ralph Himmelsbach.

There's this other book that puts forward the idea that Cooper might have been an actual employee of the airline, but you can get that one free just by contacting the author.

I had another poster recommend Skyjack to me in a pm. I'll think I'll start there. I'm not really interested in possible suspects at this time. I need to get basic case facts down first. But if you want to send me a copy, I'll eventually get to it. Thanks.

Other Cooper resources.

http://n467us.com/

http://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper%20

Oops beat me to it, Vicki. I was just going to suggest Sluggo's site as well. To me, that is still probably the best Cooper site on the internet.

Quote

Reply:

What about the Mountain News?

http://themountainnewswa.net/category/db-cooper/

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

***Lets see....Kc was making $512 a month.

The National Average Wage Index in 1971 was $6497.08 (Social Security website)
Kenny pulled in $6144.00...poorly paid?

The Federal Minimum Wage Rate in 1971 was $1.60
Kenny was at about $3.20

Home Sales Average price was $24,300
Kenny paid $14,000

Gas was about 36-40 cents a gallon
Milk was $1.18
Dozen eggs .53 cents

Kenny sat on his property and records show it was worth it. how does anyone know if he borrowed off this at any given time?

I still don't see anything but a bunch of he said she said Mumbo Jumbo

Yeah...Northwest Airlines back in the late sixties and into the seventies was a real high-paying employer with great benefits. Before you take that statement as truth, maybe you should speak to some of the employees who worked for the airline back then. They might have a different story for you. And I don't mean the pilots, just anyone else who wasn't an exec in the front office or something. You know...the rank and file. You think $3.20 an hour was even CLOSE to good wages in the Puget Sound area in 1970-71? That's a laugh. I had a part-time job as a teenager back then working for a lumber company in the Sumner area, pulling plywood sheets off the dryer line. They paid me five bucks an hour. After the Big Boeing Layoffs, my dad had to take a job there for a while, too. He was the one who got me hired. He was paid more of course, due to his age and work experience. Here's one way to look at it: I was making more at the lumber plant than Kenny was after working twenty years for the airline.

I suggest contacting Bruce Kitt at the NWA Museum. He can be reached by email and I'm sure he will be happy to fill in details on his opinion regarding worker pay and benefits. When they interviewed him on Decoded, he admitted that unhappy employees at NWA went on strike so much they had a nickname for them: Cobra. (Meaning: 'They strike at anything.') Bruce said that.

Neither you or Georger believe there is a chance in hell that Kenny Christiansen was Cooper. You call direct witness testimony from named people as 'hearsay'. The definition of hearsay is exactly how it sounds. You are quoting what you heard someone ELSE say, without corroboration. The witnesses I interviewed, with very limited exceptions, testified to what they knew by direct knowledge only.

On the document: Because of the age of the documents we're trying to obtain, they are not online and this means a personal visit to Tacoma and some fees. And I have serious trust issues going with certain posters on this thread, and in my opinion, for VERY good reasons. So...I don't think I owe anyone here a damn thing. I'll release WHAT I want, WHEN I want, which is...if you're lucky and I feel like it. I may even just save it all for the book next summer. And I couldn't care less whether you think Kenny was the guy or the evidence is hogwash. That is perfectly within your rights and you have company there. Kenny polarizes people when they read his story. Either they think he was Cooper very strongly, or the other way around. I'm used to this.

I haven't received all of the available docs yet on Kenny's house, anyway. Looks like the one I got last week is simply an equity loan taken out on the house by the Grimes' couple in June of 1972, in the amount of $7,500. Christiansen is not mentioned in the document, and I don't have the slightest idea WHY they would do that and then sell the house to Kenny in July. Or October perhaps. Whatever you believe. This is why I won't post up a piece here, a piece there. What I'm going to do is get EVERYTHING first, and then create a report on it based on the documents and what the RE agent is able to discover. I'm even considering a visit to Mrs. Grimes, who is still living. This is against my better nature, since I've said I'm OUT of the hitting-the-bricks part of investigating Christiansen. Still, I may do it just out of curiosity.

But don't get your hopes up. Even if Kenny bought the house for cash, it still doesn't prove he hijacked the plane.

Robert,
You have the right definition of "hearsay". Now, let's talk about "strawman fallacies". That's when you mischaracterize someone's argument, and then refute it.

Mr. Shutter did NOT say Kenny was highly compensated by NWA. He said that his salary was not much below the median income as reported by social security.

As Smokin99 said much of the case in favor of Kenny being involved in the hijacking is that he suddenly had a lot more money right after. Even though a great deal of that should be in public records, most of your argument is based on witness testimony nearly 40 years after the fact. Could they be mistaken after such a long period? To ask for documentation does not mean anyone is accusing them of lying.

And finally, anecdotal evidence can not be taken by itself proof of the larger group. If you were making $5 an hour in November 1971 on a part time job, that is not typical. That is a GREAT paying job. Looking at a CPI history converting that to 2013 dollars comes out to more than $28 per hour. Good for you if you got that, but I bet few did as well.

If you feel some on this forum are not fair to you, do not respond to them. But you shouldn't use that as a reason to avoid providing documentation.

[skyjack71 0]

RobertMBlevins

On the document: Because of the age of the documents we're trying to obtain, they are not online and this means a personal visit to Tacoma and some fees. And I have serious trust issues going with certain posters on this thread, and in my opinion, for VERY good reasons. So...I don't think I owe anyone here a damn thing. I'll release WHAT I want, WHEN I want, which is...if you're lucky and I feel like it. I may even just save it all for the book next summer. And I couldn't care less whether you think Kenny was the guy or the evidence is hogwash. That is perfectly within your rights and you have company there. Kenny polarizes people when they read his story. Either they think he was Cooper very strongly, or the other way around. I'm used to this.

Everyone here will come back and say to you "HOGWASH".

When you are asked to produce papers and documentation - you ALWAYS have an excuse.

The statement "Kenny Polarizes people when they read the story"

BLEVINS that is totally illogical - the average individual reading your book only knows what you have written - they have NOT studied the case & do not know the difference between "created" fact versus the "real" facts. The average person has NO way of knowing how much of your book is
"CONTRIVED" evidence and how much of it was extricated from elderly individuals for the purpose of your book. The readers have NOT been informed that some of the contributors to the book you wrote wanted to refute the things U claimed "they" stated. Your stating this is the thread does NOT count - it is what the general public reads that COUNTS!

Perhaps when the REAL Cooper is revealed - your "witnesses" might wish to make charges against you and the publisher. This is why YOU have not let anyone else - have access to "Bernie". How will you feel when he publically refutes your claims....? Did you have him sign a confidentiality statement or a non-compliancy statement?
DID YOU?

The "facts" you state are actually things "contrived" to make your subject "sound" more probable than he is. The average reader takes the things you state as researched material and as factual. What will happen when your FACTS are publically denounced in written and recorded instruments?

You always pull your little STALL thing when you are pinned down! Did you threaten anyone with legal action if they disputed you?

The FACT is that you distorted the facts as they actually existed regarding Kenny and now U are pinned to the wall? You never cared how many individuals you stepped on to obtain the attention you crave.

Maybe the attorney in fact on this thread ALREADY has the documents you say you didn't have and haven't been able to obtain or understand!

Perhap you should be HITTING the BRICKS to verify the things you have claimed about Kenny or start eating a lot of humble pie. You think? You wrote a book about a real person on hearsay that was mostly extricated under duress!
U did NOT use due dilingence in presenting these "facts" in your book.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Robert,
You have the right definition of "hearsay". Now, let's talk about "strawman fallacies". That's when you mischaracterize someone's argument, and then refute it.

Quote

Mr. Shutter did NOT say Kenny was highly compensated by NWA. He said that his salary was not much below the median income as reported by social security.

This is the same tactic used in his interviews with elderly individual although I do not know their educational level. It was the most despicable part of his deliberate actions to CONSTRUCT a story.

Quote

To ask for documentation does not mean anyone is accusing them of lying.

Blevins didn't care - and I really hope he forgot to have certain doument of procurment signed. They won't sign anything now - not after the facts have already been distrorted....and feel like they have been made fools out of.

Quote

Looking at a CPI history converting that to 2013 dollars comes out to more than $28 per hour. Good for you if you got that, but I bet few did as well.

If you feel some on this forum are not fair to you, do not respond to them. But you shouldn't use that as a reason to avoid providing documentation.

Don't worry he will come up with some out for them - he usually does but this time he went too FAR and migjht be little more difficut to escape from.*** Bet NONE of them will turn done 5 k each to clairifiy their story as Blevens states it. Blevins tols us to say that and he didnt
tell us that couldn be true.***

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, you sound like a spoiled brat! you don't trust anyone on here? who cares. that's no reason to start pitching a fit and not disclosing things you should be. what do you think your trust meter runs at about now?
I don't understand why you are even on here.

I think I'll just call and get the records and put an end to it. I told you several days ago that someone would get to the bottom of this. you can play the "I'll release WHAT I want, WHEN I want" all day long, I could care less. I'll get the records. you really don't think you actually hold the cards to this do you (*wink*) (*smiles*) (*shock*)

as others explained to you. I went by the National standards. call it whatever you wish, but Kenny doesn't fall under any "Poverty" guidelines with his NWA pay scale. when you are that unhappy about your job & pay you don't stay there year after year. did you even bother to check what the other airlines were paying during that time period?

would I be out of line if I acted like someone on the form by saying "source please, or dodging the question? ring a bell on your trust meter sir?

as for the $3.20 wage thingy. this can't be that far off Robert according to the charts for that time period. you can laugh about it it, but it doesn't change the National average. I worked for Pizza Hut back in 1980. took 4 years to make $5 an hour. I can't remember what I started at. minimum wage was $3.10 for 1980. I remember a lot of my old jobs didn't have high pay raises like today. are you trying to say other airlines paid double or triple what NWA paid? if so Kenny was a fool for staying soooooo many years before and after the crime. different jobs pay different wages Robert. manual labor is a different story vs being a purser. Armored Car Guard & Driver Hourly Rate is $9.83. Shutter builds anything that is steel or aluminum. starting pay is $15.00 an hour in my industry. your point?


do I believe KC is Cooper, not a chance in hell based on your evidence. perhaps Paul might have something, but we are still waiting on that. whatever my opinion is doesn't free you up from disclosing documents of proof. that is your job and more reason to put trust in what you say if want anyone to trust you! it's not about shutter, or Georger, or anyone else. just lonesome old Robert M Blevins backing up what he says!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

*********Lets see....Kc was making $512 a month.

The National Average Wage Index in 1971 was $6497.08 (Social Security website)
Kenny pulled in $6144.00...poorly paid?

The Federal Minimum Wage Rate in 1971 was $1.60
Kenny was at about $3.20

Home Sales Average price was $24,300
Kenny paid $14,000

Gas was about 36-40 cents a gallon
Milk was $1.18
Dozen eggs .53 cents

Kenny sat on his property and records show it was worth it. how does anyone know if he borrowed off this at any given time?

I still don't see anything but a bunch of he said she said Mumbo Jumbo

Yeah...Northwest Airlines back in the late sixties and into the seventies was a real high-paying employer with great benefits. Before you take that statement as truth, maybe you should speak to some of the employees who worked for the airline back then. They might have a different story for you. And I don't mean the pilots, just anyone else who wasn't an exec in the front office or something. You know...the rank and file. You think $3.20 an hour was even CLOSE to good wages in the Puget Sound area in 1970-71? That's a laugh. I had a part-time job as a teenager back then working for a lumber company in the Sumner area, pulling plywood sheets off the dryer line. They paid me five bucks an hour. After the Big Boeing Layoffs, my dad had to take a job there for a while, too. He was the one who got me hired. He was paid more of course, due to his age and work experience. Here's one way to look at it: I was making more at the lumber plant than Kenny was after working twenty years for the airline.

I suggest contacting Bruce Kitt at the NWA Museum. He can be reached by email and I'm sure he will be happy to fill in details on his opinion regarding worker pay and benefits. When they interviewed him on Decoded, he admitted that unhappy employees at NWA went on strike so much they had a nickname for them: Cobra. (Meaning: 'They strike at anything.') Bruce said that.

Neither you or Georger believe there is a chance in hell that Kenny Christiansen was Cooper. You call direct witness testimony from named people as 'hearsay'. The definition of hearsay is exactly how it sounds. You are quoting what you heard someone ELSE say, without corroboration. The witnesses I interviewed, with very limited exceptions, testified to what they knew by direct knowledge only.

On the document: Because of the age of the documents we're trying to obtain, they are not online and this means a personal visit to Tacoma and some fees. And I have serious trust issues going with certain posters on this thread, and in my opinion, for VERY good reasons. So...I don't think I owe anyone here a damn thing. I'll release WHAT I want, WHEN I want, which is...if you're lucky and I feel like it. I may even just save it all for the book next summer. And I couldn't care less whether you think Kenny was the guy or the evidence is hogwash. That is perfectly within your rights and you have company there. Kenny polarizes people when they read his story. Either they think he was Cooper very strongly, or the other way around. I'm used to this.

I haven't received all of the available docs yet on Kenny's house, anyway. Looks like the one I got last week is simply an equity loan taken out on the house by the Grimes' couple in June of 1972, in the amount of $7,500. Christiansen is not mentioned in the document, and I don't have the slightest idea WHY they would do that and then sell the house to Kenny in July. Or October perhaps. Whatever you believe. This is why I won't post up a piece here, a piece there. What I'm going to do is get EVERYTHING first, and then create a report on it based on the documents and what the RE agent is able to discover. I'm even considering a visit to Mrs. Grimes, who is still living. This is against my better nature, since I've said I'm OUT of the hitting-the-bricks part of investigating Christiansen. Still, I may do it just out of curiosity.

But don't get your hopes up. Even if Kenny bought the house for cash, it still doesn't prove he hijacked the plane.

Robert,
You have the right definition of "hearsay". Now, let's talk about "strawman fallacies". That's when you mischaracterize someone's argument, and then refute it.

Mr. Shutter did NOT say Kenny was highly compensated by NWA. He said that his salary was not much below the median income as reported by social security.

As Smokin99 said much of the case in favor of Kenny being involved in the hijacking is that he suddenly had a lot more money right after. Even though a great deal of that should be in public records, most of your argument is based on witness testimony nearly 40 years after the fact. Could they be mistaken after such a long period? To ask for documentation does not mean anyone is accusing them of lying.

And finally, anecdotal evidence can not be taken by itself proof of the larger group. If you were making $5 an hour in November 1971 on a part time job, that is not typical. That is a GREAT paying job. Looking at a CPI history converting that to 2013 dollars comes out to more than $28 per hour. Good for you if you got that, but I bet few did as well.

If you feel some on this forum are not fair to you, do not respond to them. But you shouldn't use that as a reason to avoid providing documentation.

Guess you really didn't examine my post. I don't give a shit whether you think you are 'owed' documentation or not. My trust factor meter on this thread is pretty close to zero. I said...I would provide a report and all the available documents when they arrive, when I understand what they mean, and when I decide, and that's that.

Now it's late and I am supposed to be packing for a multi-day camping trip to the Olympics in the morning, which I deserve beyond belief, in my humble opinion. I'm out of here for a few days and glad of it.
When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark

At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of the lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown

Walk on walk on with hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark

At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of the lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown

Walk on walk on with hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk

You'll never walk
You'll never walk alone.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

In part:

Quote

'do I believe KC is Cooper, not a chance in hell based on your evidence. perhaps Paul might have something, but we are still waiting on that. whatever my opinion is doesn't free you up from disclosing documents of proof. that is your job and more reason to put trust in what you say if want anyone to trust you! it's not about shutter, or Georger, or anyone else. just lonesome old Robert M Blevins backing up what he says! ...'

Look...I have to get going this morning, but I did read your post and I'll answer before I leave.

First, name one person on this thread besides me who has already released SO much on a single suspect. Pictures, DD214 info, a death certificate, the names of actual witnesses, testimony on two TV shows you can view at YouTube, a comprehensive report submitted to the Seattle FBI, even a video where I explain the evidence in detail. I even did a video on the Ariel thing, for crying out loud. Besides, I already told you what the other property document was, anyway. It's an equity loan document showing the Grimes' borrowed $7,500 against the house in June of 1972.

It would be good if you got all the documents on your own. One reason is because I think a second source in possession of those documents would be like a verification that they not only exist, but are accurate. So go for it.

I don't KNOW why Kenny stayed for twenty-plus years at NWA under the circumstances he worked. Bandying around numbers concerning 'pay averages' doesn't tell the story of NWA, either. They were famous for underpaying people and cutting benefits. That's why they kept having the strikes.

Anyone here asked themselves why Geoff Gray never posts? He's the original guy who not only broke the Christiansen story, but his book is heavily Christiansen-oriented right from the start. He told me why when we spoke at Third Place Books in Seattle. Made perfect sense, but I'm not going to quote him. You can probably guess anyway.

I've released every single thing I've ever obtained on Christiansen up to this point. And the only reason I'm holding back on this latest doc is because it needs to be combined with everything available on that property. I need a complete picture of what really happened with that house. However, even if KC did pay cash somehow (I think he paid under the table, by the way) it won't prove a thing except he paid cash for a house. I can't find out where exactly he got the money, and that's one reason why I can't say for sure he's the hijacker.

In reality, there isn't much more I can...or am willing to do...regarding Christiansen. The tools are there for any LEO or media outlet to check him out. You are also right when you say that what you have seen from AB and yours truly doesn't convince you KC was Cooper. That's because although there is a great deal of evidence against him, about half is witness testimony and those people need to be contacted by either LEO or maybe the media. And that's the reason I made the KC report public on the website. I have patience. At the rate it's being downloaded, sooner or later someone is going to get curious. And then maybe they will figure the whole thing out on Kenny.

I'll be in the Hamma Hamma river area for the next few days listening to recordings of 'X-Minus One' and 'Dimension X,' and whatever NFL games are being broadcast this weekend. So I won't be posting until I return. Been working very hard since last Christmas and I need a vacation.

When you walk through Hamma Hamma
Hold your Hamma Hamma up high
And don't be afraid of the Hamma Hamma

At the end of the Hamma Hamma
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of the lark

Walk on through the Hamma Hamma
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown

Walk on walk on with Hamma Hamma in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone

When you walk through a Hamma Hamma
Hold your Hamma Hamma up high
And don't be afraid of the Hamma Hamma

At the end of the Hamma Hamma
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of the lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown

Walk on walk on with hope in your heart
And you'll never Hamma Hamma alone
You'll never Hamma Hamma

You'll never Hamma Hamma
You'll never Hamma Hamma alone.

[testxyz 0]

If not posted yet..

Brad Meltzer was on CBS this morning show yesterday pushing Kenny C. as D.B. Cooper.

Meltzer has a new book out.

Video Below...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57608154/history-decoded-brad-meltzer-talks-conspiracy-theories/

[mrshutter45 21]

testxyz

If not posted yet..

Brad Meltzer was on CBS this morning show yesterday pushing Kenny C. as D.B. Cooper.

Meltzer has a new book out.

Video Below...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57608154/history-decoded-brad-meltzer-talks-conspiracy-theories/

he was on one of our radio shows Friday morning. nice to see ya XYZ.......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[ParrotheadVol 70]

testxyz

If not posted yet..

Brad Meltzer was on CBS this morning show yesterday pushing Kenny C. as D.B. Cooper.

Meltzer has a new book out.

Video Below...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57608154/history-decoded-brad-meltzer-talks-conspiracy-theories/

If I had a suspect that I was pushing, Brad Meltzer is one of the last people I would want agreeing with me. These conspiracy theorists are all the same, and they are always wrong.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider