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quade

DB Cooper

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But Cooper was last seen tying a rope around his WAIST. As if he were planning NOT to secure the package necessarily to his waist or chest, but to tie something to the END OF THE ROPE. This to me, seems the safest and the most natural thing to do. You bind up all three items, then take the line around your waist and tie it securely to the whole bundle. This way, you still have one hand free while going down the stairs.

Second...we also know Cooper was carrying a knife. If he had any experience skydiving, we can assume he knew about cutaways.

What if....

Cooper pulled the ripcord right off the end of the stairs while carrying this package? Or as soon as he jumped? Without a working reserve, he might want to ensure the chute would actually open BEFORE he commits to any jump. Then...after the chute inflates...and as he descends...he lets the package tied to his waist drop below him.

Some of the skydivers here have suggested that this could cause him problems at landing, because the rope below with the package could trap him in the trees. Granted.

But, what if when he approached the ground, he simply cuts the line free at his waist and lets the package drop? He had a knife. I'll attach the demo pic again.




This is a technique taught by Paperlegs Petersen and Mouse was one of his students. 377 told this story a few months ago...I was the only one who recognized why he did so.

Perhaps he was playing Devil's advocate, but the riddle and the mouse made sense with what I knew!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.

I came back after I got over the initial shock. I never knew him without Gray hair and I never saw his hair like that at all - very curly and he looked so gaunt - spooky is the only word I have. He had that scar where a tuff of hair had been picked out or removed.

He looked so old - and the close hair cut I never ever saw and his ears looked so large. Duane definitely had some things done. Teeth and ears.
He had told me he had his ears pinned and I didn't believe him - now I do! That picture is shocking. I am trying to figure out how to down load it and print it. I believe the daughter he helped me raise will be as shocked as I was and still am! Was this photo on intake or release?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.



your welcome......B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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airtwardo

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I imagine the opening would be like the upward bounce on a bungee jump or something.



Not quite...with that canopy and that speed, it's more like jumping off a bungee jumping platform ~ with a log chain instead of a big rubber band.

You're essentially decelerating from what...about 150 mph to almost zero in two heartbeats.



now we are getting to real forces involved!

not exactly like jumping from a c47 wwII with some stuff tied
to you ....... lo forces.

The kinds of forces you are describing are more in line with
comments the Boeing club members described. Something tied
around the mid section with those forces could displace a hip
and cause a hernia?

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skyjack71

Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.



Yep - those choppers are an issue just as *765%$3* described.
Yum yum. B|.

I think all can agree - DB Cooper didnt look like that! :D:D

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airtwardo

******There are only two possible answers on the briefcase and dummy chute. Either Cooper tossed them from the jet, or he somehow took them with him all the way to the ground. Let's call 'Tossed' by A, and 'Carried' by B.

A: Tossed. Entirely possible. But neither has been discovered on the ground.

B: Carried. Couple of minor problems here, too. Posts from 377 and others have said this could be dangerous because it could make your fall unstable with such a bulky load on your chest. So what are some of the possible answers?



Hmmm now we have SafecrackingBlevins PLF!

Are you up on your permutations/combinations?

N!

A or B .... or A, B, AB, BA ...

4! = 4x3x2 = 24 possibilities.

Hmmmm. A paradox. :o:D:ph34r:

Dont let your theories slap you up side of the head, as you fall,
LOST.

Think about it! :P:D

oo oo ... what became of his choppers? That's false teeth. ?

[:/]

I was just out changing the oil in the bike thinking about that very thing...I'd say at LEAST that many possibilities!

A lot depends on DBC's experience, knowledge and intentions, without a clue as to the facts surrounding those variables...the combination of possibilities is huge.

Tie it to himself?
~As I said earlier, that's not as easy as it sounds.

Fabricate a 'drop line' securing the package(s) to the end?
~If not done right that could cause significant problems with canopy deployment if in freefall. As mentioned possible problems on landing. Less so maybe if pulling while on the step but a knowledgeable skydiver most likely would not do that. A Smoke jumper-maybe.

Tie some & hang onto some?
~Could be done, but he'd have to have been a jumper AND have a cool head & strong grip.

The list of 'possibilities' is vast... without knowing his background the list of 'probabilities' is pretty short.

Im beginning to agree - - -

Im also finding myself revisiting those 'forces' the Boeing guys
talked about (swore had to be a fact!). This was no casual
jump from a C47 ... either Cooper was aware of the difference
or he wasn't!

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377

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Cooper pulled the ripcord right off the end of the stairs while carrying this package? Or as soon as he jumped? Without a working reserve, he might want to ensure the chute would actually open BEFORE he commits to any jump. Then...after the chute inflates...and as he descends...he lets the package tied to his waist drop below him.



Once that pilot chute hits the 727 slipstream and extracts the canopy YOU ARE GOING. I doubt that you could hang on to the stairs if the main canopy streamered and failed to inflate.

You agree Airtwardo?

377



sure looks that way ... we have to get a handle finally on the actual forces involved and some comparisons to smoke jumping and c47 military drops with gear ... actual numbers.

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skyjack71

Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.

I came back after I got over the initial shock. I never knew him without Gray hair and I never saw his hair like that at all - very curly and he looked so gaunt - spooky is the only word I have. He had that scar where a tuff of hair had been picked out or removed.

He looked so old - and the close hair cut I never ever saw and his ears looked so large. Duane definitely had some things done. Teeth and ears.
He had told me he had his ears pinned and I didn't believe him - now I do! That picture is shocking. I am trying to figure out how to down load it and print it. I believe the daughter he helped me raise will be as shocked as I was and still am! Was this photo on intake or release?



The photo was taken at the start of his entry into the system 4-25-66 the ledger starts May 23, 1966

even that old computer should be able to save that pic, right click on it and "save as"
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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georger

***Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.



Yep - those choppers are an issue just as *765%$3* described.
Yum yum. B|.

I think all can agree - DB Cooper didnt look like that! :D:D


:oWhy can't you make a post that makes sense! Was there something the FBI hid about Cooper's description - like missing teeth? Can't you even be nice - right now I am in shock. If you had seen this photo - WHY did you not post it?

Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo wrote
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Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?



Why conceal? This question coming from Jo? How incredibly ironic.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377

Jo wrote

Quote

Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?



Why conceal? This question coming from Jo? How incredibly ironic.

377



I can tell you that I have had this photo and other documentation for about 8 hours now, this is news to about 99%

End message......
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

***Jo wrote

Quote

Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?



Why conceal? This question coming from Jo? How incredibly ironic.

377



I can tell you that I have had this photo and other documentation for about 8 hours now, this is news to about 99%

End message......

Roger. Wilco. 99. 44. 88.

32.
:|

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georger

*********There are only two possible answers on the briefcase and dummy chute. Either Cooper tossed them from the jet, or he somehow took them with him all the way to the ground. Let's call 'Tossed' by A, and 'Carried' by B.

A: Tossed. Entirely possible. But neither has been discovered on the ground.

B: Carried. Couple of minor problems here, too. Posts from 377 and others have said this could be dangerous because it could make your fall unstable with such a bulky load on your chest. So what are some of the possible answers?



Hmmm now we have SafecrackingBlevins PLF!

Are you up on your permutations/combinations?

N!

A or B .... or A, B, AB, BA ...

4! = 4x3x2 = 24 possibilities.

Hmmmm. A paradox. :o:D:ph34r:

Dont let your theories slap you up side of the head, as you fall,
LOST.

Think about it! :P:D

oo oo ... what became of his choppers? That's false teeth. ?

[:/]

I was just out changing the oil in the bike thinking about that very thing...I'd say at LEAST that many possibilities!

A lot depends on DBC's experience, knowledge and intentions, without a clue as to the facts surrounding those variables...the combination of possibilities is huge.

Tie it to himself?
~As I said earlier, that's not as easy as it sounds.

Fabricate a 'drop line' securing the package(s) to the end?
~If not done right that could cause significant problems with canopy deployment if in freefall. As mentioned possible problems on landing. Less so maybe if pulling while on the step but a knowledgeable skydiver most likely would not do that. A Smoke jumper-maybe.

Tie some & hang onto some?
~Could be done, but he'd have to have been a jumper AND have a cool head & strong grip.

The list of 'possibilities' is vast... without knowing his background the list of 'probabilities' is pretty short.

Im beginning to agree - - -

Im also finding myself revisiting those 'forces' the Boeing guys
talked about (swore had to be a fact!). This was no casual
jump from a C47 ... either Cooper was aware of the difference
or he wasn't!


Again the variables come into play with regard to DBC's actual knowledge, both of jumping & the aircraft operating parameters.

Personally...I wouldn't pull off the step, especially if I were gambling one one chute only. Knowing that the airspeed was faster than my terminal velocity - I would want to 'slow down' in freefall prior to deployment. That would reduce the forces on the nylon, those things have been known to break lines and/or blow panels.

However if DBC were clueless to that, he might want to pull off the step thinking it might simulate a C47 static-line drop like in the movies

The opening shock will clear your sinuses...but I doubt one could break a hip. The harness spreads out the effect concentrating it from the shoulders down through the leg straps. I've gotten some fairly impressive bruises from 'snot-knocker' openings on round reserves years ago....and lost a shoe that was tied on pretty tight.

COULD he 'hang on' to a briefcase?
Depend on the weight I guess..heck the handle might not take the G's :ph34r:



http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2915781;search_string=that%20kinda%20hurt;#2915781
~there is a pic attached to the initial post in the above linked thread. That's a piece that's rated @ 2500lbs. i believe, the canopy opened so hard & fast that I broke the riser.

I was sore for a few days..but if that was my ONLY chute - ick










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

Quote

I imagine the opening would be like the upward bounce on a bungee jump or something.



Not quite...with that canopy and that speed, it's more like jumping off a bungee jumping platform ~ with a log chain instead of a big rubber band.

You're essentially decelerating from what...about 150 mph to almost zero in two heartbeats.




Ohhhhh scary jet jumps......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NVqVKwHmTA

See if you can spot the cool Canopy RW;)

Now here is what you call some shitful exits...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=MCx8y9nIw5Q

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Amazon

***

Quote

I imagine the opening would be like the upward bounce on a bungee jump or something.



Not quite...with that canopy and that speed, it's more like jumping off a bungee jumping platform ~ with a log chain instead of a big rubber band.

You're essentially decelerating from what...about 150 mph to almost zero in two heartbeats.




Ohhhhh scary jet jumps......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NVqVKwHmTA

See if you can spot the cool Canopy RW;)

Not sure if I spotted the cool canopy, but here's something I spotted right away just beyond the 5:00 mark:

Guys landing with cargo hanging on a line BELOW them.

I also noticed many of the openings happened almost upside down, but that the canopies quickly righted themselves.

Yeah, it's scary. I'm wondering the cruise speed of this aircraft during those jumps. This is what I have on it now for cruise: 520 mph (837km/h; Mach 0.70)

That's a lot effin' faster than Flight 305 was going.


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RobertMBlevins

******

Quote

I imagine the opening would be like the upward bounce on a bungee jump or something.



Not quite...with that canopy and that speed, it's more like jumping off a bungee jumping platform ~ with a log chain instead of a big rubber band.

You're essentially decelerating from what...about 150 mph to almost zero in two heartbeats.




Ohhhhh scary jet jumps......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NVqVKwHmTA

See if you can spot the cool Canopy RW;)

Not sure if I spotted the cool canopy, but here's something I spotted right away just beyond the 5:00 mark:

Guys landing with cargo hanging on a line BELOW them.

I also noticed many of the openings happened almost upside down, but that the canopies quickly righted themselves.

Yeah, it's scary. I'm wondering the cruise speed of this aircraft during those jumps. This is what I have on it now for cruise: 520 mph (837km/h; Mach 0.70)

That's a lot effin' faster than Flight 305 was going.

The jump speed for the C-141 is about 140 knots. Perhaps you noticed the troopers dropping the equipment packs below them just prior to landing.

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Then Blevins, the non-expert, steps in and has more to say about the subject than the expert. Only Blevins would do that. Blevins, you're a goldfish trying to swim upstream with the salmon. Go back to the sandbox, junior...'

Say there, smart guy. Let me know when you finish editing more than fifty books, write five of your own, do an illustrated sci-fi mag, run a publishing company...and in your spare time create 500 illustrated articles on subjects from A to Z...and then get more than 3 million visitors to those articles. (Google Analytics data) (If you wish, you can look below and take a peek at what I call The First 48. I got plenty 'o smarts, my friend. B| )

Then you can tell me to go to the sandbox. LOL.

Get real. I didn't just fall off the apple cart, you know. You keep on flappin', but I don't hear anything coming out that makes much sense. Not lately. :S

_______________________________________________

All that experience, but not one ounce of credibility. How do it know? What you know means little when you keep spouting off ridiculous conclusions about things you don't know. Maybe stick with what you know, you might get more respect.

MeyerLouie

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RobertMBlevins

Non-Cooper: Ever see THIS little stunt done with a wingsuit?

I've seen some cool wingsuit videos. This one is just plain crazy. Someone certainly cashed in later just by recycling the cardboard. :|



______________________________________________

Haven't got your 25% in, huh Blevins? Got to kill some network time, as if you don't already with your uninformed comments about most everything.

MeyerLouie

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MeyerLouie

***

Quote

Is it possible DBC put the briefcase in the dummy chute, strapped it on in front,




Very doubtful...vastly different in size & shape.

'IF' DBC was up to speed on the gear, I'd be skeptical regarding putting much of anything in the reserve container or 'dummy chute'.

They are by design very easy and quick to open, they basically are four flaps held closed by a couple of short/thin pins attached to a large heavy handle.

The contents are what give it it's 'shape' and assist in keeping it close until needed.

It would be pretty dicey trying to pack it with bundles and HOPE the pins stay put & keep it closed securely.



_____________________________________________

Thanks for the information. I had a feeling you were going to say that. I saw 377's demo at the 2012 Symposium (shape and size of a parachute) and I know the size and shape of typical brifefcases, so I figured the fit would not be there. It's literally like trying to fit a big square into a smaller round hole. In addition, it seems that negotiating the awkward shape of the briefcase would be a bit of a challenge.

So, there's lots of discussion, and several pictures, of how Cooper might have attached the moneybag to his person, but few have really discusses or reconciled what happened to the briefcase (and dummy chute for that matter).

If Cooper didn't toss the briefcase, what's feasible then for how he might have carried it with him? That is, in your expert opinion, do you think it's likely that Cooper took the briefcase with him, and if so, how? I pose the same question to 377 as well.

Same question for the dummy chute -- without the "D' rings, is it likely he took that reserve chute with him? Earlier, I conjectured that maybe he tied the dummy chute onto himself just to have material for fashiioning some sort of lean-to, pancho, and/or foot protection after landing. No one really responded to that notion, so I'm gathering it's a bit far-fetched.

In short, what is the likelihood of Cooper packing along the briefcase and/or the dummy chute? That is, what is the likelihood he took both, neither, or one of the two?

MeyerLouie

_______________________________________________

I was hoping to get a response to my questions here from the experts. What would Cooper have had to do to take the briefcase and/or dummy chute with him? What is the likelihood he took these items? You've stated your opinion Blevins, I want to hear from the experts.

This is getting tiresome -- it's turned into the 'Robert Blevins Show.' He butts in, takes over, steals the thunder, steals the show with his pages and pages of non-expert, uninformed posts. In so doing, it seems then that other people on the forum don't feel compelled to jump in and lend their expertise and knowledge. Because of him, good, smart, courteous, skilled, somewhat shy people are not contributing. In short, we are not getting the full perspective of knowledge, expertise, and information -- because of him. I can't even ask a legitimate question about the case without Blevins butting in and throwing in his 20 paragraphs worth. He kills the spirit here, he's discourteous, and he's rude. It's getting real old.

MeyerLouie

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MeyerLouie



Then Blevins, the non-expert, steps in and has more to say about the subject than the expert. Only Blevins would do that. Blevins, you're a goldfish trying to swim upstream with the salmon. Go back to the sandbox, junior...'



Say there, smart guy. Let me know when you finish editing more than fifty books, write five of your own, do an illustrated sci-fi mag, run a publishing company...and in your spare time create 500 illustrated articles on subjects from A to Z...and then get more than 3 million visitors to those articles. (Google Analytics data) (If you wish, you can look below and take a peek at what I call The First 48. I got plenty 'o smarts, my friend. B| )

Then you can tell me to go to the sandbox. LOL.

Get real. I didn't just fall off the apple cart, you know. You keep on flappin', but I don't hear anything coming out that makes much sense. Not lately. :S

_______________________________________________

Quote

All that experience, but not one ounce of credibility. How do it know? What you know means little when you keep spouting off ridiculous conclusions about things you don't know. Maybe stick with what you know, you might get more respect.

MeyerLouie



Respect from YOU? What makes you believe I need something like that? You flatter yourself in the extreme. Trust me. I don't live for your approval LOL. :S


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Amazon

***

Quote

I imagine the opening would be like the upward bounce on a bungee jump or something.



Not quite...with that canopy and that speed, it's more like jumping off a bungee jumping platform ~ with a log chain instead of a big rubber band.

You're essentially decelerating from what...about 150 mph to almost zero in two heartbeats.




Ohhhhh scary jet jumps......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NVqVKwHmTA

See if you can spot the cool Canopy RW;)

Now here is what you call some shitful exits...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=MCx8y9nIw5Q

Cool, MASSTAC over Sicily DZ, ah memories. (I was one of the last to make a jump from the last [tactically capable] C-141 to head to the bone yard, IIRC)

That wasn't real good CRW, proximity flying maybe.:P

It is fun reading some of the thread commentators "expert opinions" on the vid though. At least they are getting closer in comparisons, more like grapefruit and oranges now.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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RobertMBlevins

***

Then Blevins, the non-expert, steps in and has more to say about the subject than the expert. Only Blevins would do that. Blevins, you're a goldfish trying to swim upstream with the salmon. Go back to the sandbox, junior...'



Say there, smart guy. Let me know when you finish editing more than fifty books, write five of your own, do an illustrated sci-fi mag, run a publishing company...and in your spare time create 500 illustrated articles on subjects from A to Z...and then get more than 3 million visitors to those articles. (Google Analytics data) (If you wish, you can look below and take a peek at what I call The First 48. I got plenty 'o smarts, my friend. B| )

Then you can tell me to go to the sandbox. LOL.

Get real. I didn't just fall off the apple cart, you know. You keep on flappin', but I don't hear anything coming out that makes much sense. Not lately. :S

_______________________________________________

Quote

All that experience, but not one ounce of credibility. How do it know? What you know means little when you keep spouting off ridiculous conclusions about things you don't know. Maybe stick with what you know, you might get more respect.

MeyerLouie



Respect from YOU? What makes you believe I need something like that? You flatter yourself in the extreme. Trust me. I don't live for your approval LOL. :S

_____________________________________________

Nor anybody else's, troll.

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I wonder if anyone caught my sarcasm tone Matt ;)

I only got to jump the 141 3 times at Ft Bunny (hop hop jump ;))... all the rest of my jumps were choppers and a few older prop jobs like the C-7, C-123... and helleven my C-130 jumps were old vibro models too.. :)

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Amazon

I wonder if anyone caught my sarcasm tone Matt ;)

I only got to jump the 141 3 times at Ft Bunny (hop hop jump ;))... all the rest of my jumps were choppers and a few older prop jobs like the C-7, C-123... and helleven my C-130 jumps were old vibro models too.. :)



C 123 was a real beast Amazon. Single engine performance at full gross weight was miserable. Later versions (C 123K) added two jets.

Whats a "vibro" model C 130?

I and many other happy WFFC campers jumped the oldest Herc still flying: N131EC, an RAAF surplus C 130A with three bladed props. I think it was built in 1958. It's still active today.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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