DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

This coincides with Bill Rataczak's statement where he said: 'The stairs will drop about 24-36" in flight..." (paraphrased) Although the test refers more to width than height, I believe.

Blevins, The aft stairs move vertically and not laterally. Therefore, Rataczak was referring to a "height" movement and not a "width" movement.

Why don't you visit the Air Museum in Seattle and see what a 727's aft stairs look like.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

they already knew who he was. his cop buddy turned him in. he made the mistake of leaving the note with the stew. everything started to fall into place after that. as I mentioned, his mouth got the ball rolling.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

mrshutter45

they already knew who he was. his cop buddy turned him in. he made the mistake of leaving the note with the stew. everything started to fall into place after that. as I mentioned, his mouth got the ball rolling.

______________________________________________
The fingerprints on the magazine he read didn't help much either. Stashing the cash under the bed was grade-school. But what got him caught was two honest agents with a wish to make a name for themselves. They refused to back-off for the sake of the project. Mac then finally clammed up and rode the rail. Said NOTHING, other than his plea to the Judge. Karen was supposed to pick him up but they never connected. Mac broke a small bone in his foot when he landed, but walked out to the snack cafe by himself, bought a strawberry frap and paid a kid $15 dollars for a ride to town. The news of his jump was on the news as they drove. The kid claimed he was only paid $10. Everyone lies, I guess. That in brief his what really happened. Lots of evidence everywhere, like he knew he was going to get caught. Couldn't have TWO FBI projects where the guy got away! But he did get away two years into his Pa. Pen stay, didn't he......

[mrshutter45 21]

Yawn......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

of course it was for the money, but not a reason to say how he got away.

"You are right when you say that there's no way to prove (as yet) whether he lived or died. It just seems strange that nothing has ever been found except a few of the ransom bills."

you have a jump point anywhere from approx. 8:10 to 8:20. this possibly puts him jumping over Portland area if you go by Rataczak's time frame. nobody knows exactly where he landed. so, we have a problem locating a body IF he didn't make it. they believed they knew where he jumped, but later concluded it was probably wrong. So, again it really doesn't seem strange a body was not found when you don't know where to look. I lean over the fence more that he didn't survive. I use to think the same way, no evidence on the ground, he must of made it. I don't believe that anymore.

If he landed the way I have been trying to land my new 727. no way in hell he made it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouwYH5x5_mI

I'm doing much better now though

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

of course it was for the money, but not a reason to say how he got away.

"You are right when you say that there's no way to prove (as yet) whether he lived or died. It just seems strange that nothing has ever been found except a few of the ransom bills."

you have a jump point anywhere from approx. 8:10 to 8:20. this possibly puts him jumping over Portland area if you go by Rataczak's time frame. nobody knows exactly where he landed. so, we have a problem locating a body IF he didn't make it. they believed they knew where he jumped, but later concluded it was probably wrong. So, again it really doesn't seem strange a body was not found when you don't know where to look. I lean over the fence more that he didn't survive. I use to think the same way, no evidence on the ground, he must of made it. I don't believe that anymore.

If he landed the way I have been trying to land my new 727. no way in hell he made it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouwYH5x5_mI

I'm doing much better now though

a few 'bundles' of the bills.

may point to a catastrophe.

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, the black box works on a loop. they would have to stop the power to the box in order to save the data.

Rataczak is also on record giving time frames and the difference from the oscillation & the bump. 10-15 minutes after the last contact with Cooper which was 8:05!!!!!!!!!!!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

RECAP of John Weber's letter to me trying to fill in Duane's past for me and others.

John had Duane being born 1925, but the records show 1924 and the date Duane used.

Duane was born around the time of the Lorian Tornado in Lorain, Ohio.

John was 14 or 13 and living with his Grandaparents in Hudson, Ohio when Duane was born.

Father - Claudian J. Weber
Mother - Lorraine B. Weber

Lived in Mentor, Ohio

Claude lost his job with Polson Rubber Co in Willouby, Ohio - resulting in the loss of the Mentor property.

Grandmother Weber offered them the Stow Road House.

Duane supposedly started school in Mentor, Ohio. Voluntarily enlisted in the U.S. Navy at the age of 16.

The Family consisted of Claude, Gwendolyn and Duane during those yrs. John was living with his grandparents.

John (Duane's brother) moved to Cleveland and worked at Templin Bradley Co. and in the summers worked at the propagating farms of Templin Bradley at Medina, OH.

John (Duane's brother moved to NY and later to CA). John was a consultant for Boeing when in CA and then in WA.

December of 1942 - Duane is supposedly with his parents in Ohio.

April of 1943 - John the brother was stationed at Nashville Army Air Base in Nashville, Tn.

A friend of John's reported that Duane was in the Army and took the Commanding general's car for a Sat night on the town. The friends name was Frank A. McArthur.

In 1943 Duane was claiming to be 21 but was barely 18.

Duane was known to be in CA in late 1943. John's wife 1st wife at that time was named Margaret. She often picked him up at the Biltmore Hotel in downtown Los Angeles.

In 1943 Duane was arrested for stealing a federal check in a bar when the lady went to the restroom.

His father recorded in their family log an Address for a Mrs. Duane Weber at 1500 East 61st, chicago. John thinks this was Edna...but, no one knows. The records someone else found gave another name...but will give that as the information came to me.

But then John backs up and states that in 1946 a phone call was received from a woman by the name of Edna (the call came from Mesa, AZ) who claimed dire circumstances - and money to cover the birth of a child whe claimed was fathered by Duane.
Given name believed to be Zona Anne. I tried to find her in 1997 will no results. I would later find such a name but the person had deceased. 377 helped some with this.

Claude Weber (Duane's father) passed away april 9 1956 in Arcadia, CA. Duane asked at that time for Edna to be contacted to represent him at his father's funeral - Duane was in prison.

Duane was residing with his mother in 1957 on Vaquero Rd. in Arcadia CA. Certain Gold coins came up missing as Duane intertained ladies of the night there. He was using his mother late model DeSota for his nightly episodes at a local bar called "The Trails". It was around this time that John Confronted Duane with a BASEBALL BAT advising him he should leave Mother Weber's home. This was the last time John ever saw Duane Weber. His mother passed away may 9 1958.

Next known siting of Duane was reported to John by a friend of the FAMILY. Thomas J. Roach, U.S. Army and nephew of Duane. This siting was at the Fountainbleu in Miami on OCTOBER 22, 1962 the DATE President Kennedy warned the Soviet Union to discontinue the installation of Soviet missiles in Cuba. Roach had a conversation with Weber on that night at the bar.

He included pictures found in his sister files - the photo was dated May 12, 1969 and was photo of the woman and her children I spoke to many time after Duane died and in my investigation.

Duane had contacted his sister by phone over the yrs but never provide an address - not until 1987 (approx) and this is when Duane had been told the disease was moving forward and to prepare for the machine. The sister sent him pictures of the family.

The last paragraph I added and I only put the important STUFF in this and not every word that John wrote to me.

I got to meet John in 2004, but not for long - he and I never got to have our private conversation because his sister had a heart attack that night. I will always believe she feared what he was going to tell me and she had shared some of her secrets with him. After she recovered she sent me a letter asking me to PLEASE leave the PAST in the PAST.

Her explanation to me over the phone was that she DID not want to be remembered as the sister of D.B.Cooper and since she was recouperating I definitely was not going to be unkind and cause her more stress.

She again begs me in a letter to leave the past in the past and in a phone call - concernes about what her friends think would think.

I certainly was NOT going to be unkind. I always feared the stress of this did shorten her life. I told her I would back down - which I did until I was notified she had passed away. I knew I was letting go of something important. Remember her relief in 2004 when she realized I was NOT the woman with Duane in 1971! I will NEVER forget the look on her face in 2004 at the hospital when she realized I WAS NOT THAT WOMAN! The woman Duane took to her home in 1971 after the skyjacking. His lady of the day was a stark contrast to me - I will assure you of that!

I NEVER forgot the RELIEF in her eyes when she said "You aren't Jo"
Perhaps she had forgotten the name of the woman with Duane and Duane I think had led her to believe that I was the same woman with him in 1971. Deception from day one!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

'Although the test refers more to width than height, I believe...'

Blevins, Could you explain what, if anything, you mean by the above statement instead of just changing the subject?

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

***Robert, the black box works on a loop. they would have to stop the power to the box in order to save the data.

Rataczak is also on record giving time frames and the difference from the oscillation & the bump. 10-15 minutes after the last contact with Cooper which was 8:05!!!!!!!!!!!

Well...like I said...maybe someone should talk to him about this. He was pretty free at that recent NWA Minneapolis gathering about doing Cooper Talk. His address and phone are public record, although he screens the calls.

Some posters here have suggested that I contact him, and I really thought about it. But I came to the conclusion that this job would be better served by a pilot, and someone who hasn't done a book on Cooper. You know...someone more neutral.

Here's a basic tenet of investigations that even I know: When you have a dispute with a known source, and aren't sure of the facts...go back to the source. In this case, it would be Rataczak.

Blevins, Whether you realize it or not, you imply in the last paragraph above that you have a dispute with Rataczak about the flight path and aren't sure of the facts.

I believe it was at the same NWA gathering that you reference above that Rataczak stated that he was the only living person who knew which side of Portland the airliner was on when it passed by.

Taken at face value, this means that Rataczak does not support the flight path shown on the so-called FBI maps.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

******

'Although the test refers more to width than height, I believe...'

Blevins, Could you explain what, if anything, you mean by the above statement instead of just changing the subject?

Robert99

I didn't 'change the subject'. I responded to your post.

And no.

Okay. Just this: I pointed out that Rataczak gave a number on how far the airstairs would naturally drop if activated in flight. The Boeing guy talked about the width of the same opening under the same conditions. Not exactly a big deal point. Since Cooper wasn't discovered on board when the plane landed in Reno, it's obvious he went out the hole somehow. And I still think it's possible he BACKED down the stairs, although that's another small point and unproven.

Blevins, The width of the aft stairs and the associated fuselage opening is constant and doesn't have anything to do with whether the stairs are full down, in transition, or up and locked.

You should take a look at the pictures of the FBI tests to get an idea of how far the stairs would open with someone standing on the bottom step.

And whether Cooper backed down the stairs is not a matter of any consequence.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

here is the FBI test photo along with the stairs fully extended

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

You GUYS will note I am NOT sticking with the trend of the thread. I am on COUNT DOWN and I feel I have to share the things I know - now, because who knows - we have NO tomorrows promised to us!

In MARCH of 1997 - 2 yrs after Duane died I recieved a wonderful letter from John's wife. They were aware of what I had discovered in May of 1996. She mentions all the hard work I had put into tracing down Duane's past...and THANKED ME for asking the FBI NOT to bother John & Gwen due to their health. She said she would leave it to JOHN to speak for himself!

She mentioned how upsetting it would be to have "people from the Enquire and similar magazies swarming around to focus on miniutiae and twist half facts into anything sensational their writers can dream up".

You see I did take the family into consideration as I also did for myself.
I did go public in 2000 - because the FBI was doing ZERO! She felt going public would damage Duane's sisters fragil health.

I kept my promise until 2000 and what the FBI agent said over the phone just flew in the face of justice and the FBI having investigated Duane's back ground. It was that phone call in 2000 that I realized I actually had more on Duane's background than the FBI did. Remember the agent told me Duane was never in the Army nor in McNeil and I was holding actually documentation of BOTH!

She was a wonderful person and I wish the maker had allowed John and I to have had our private conversation in 2004. She was going to entertain my current husband in the living room so John and I could talk in the OFFICE. I actually told my current husband little about what I was doing every night on the computer. I later learned he had been here on DZ reading the things I posted when I was not home! I would not know this until I cleaned out his computer in 2007 before giving it to his girls.

Life is full of SECRETS and I will have NO MORE secrets if I can manage to get it all done before it is time to leave this body I now posssess. I am very tired - but, NOW you have to know the things I have NOT told. Things that mean NOTHING to a bunch of computer jerks who only have one agenda - but there are some of you out there genuinely interested in this battle I have fought for 18 yrs.

Maybe in the process some of you with the ability to do special searches will see something in the process that will actually cause the FBI to knock on my door and say "We are Sorry, We made some errors - You Actually had Cooper all along!" At least a girl can dream - Right?

You'll Never Know If You Don't Know NOW!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Addresses and names:

Joseph L. Hebbert 3412 W. Magnolia Blvd Burbank, CA

Mr & Mrs Dan W. Ward Jr
405 Delphine Place
Fullerton, CA

the other 2 are prior residences of his his mother.
Lorraine B Weber:
400 Vaquero Rd, Arcadia, CA
&
259 Morning Canyon Rd Shore Cliffs at Cornao Del Mar.

The newspaper Obit on his father is also here...but just names and place of funeral - no information like we see in other OBITS.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Who was VAN D. Hubbard McNeil Island Warden's assistance 1939? Could he have been related to the Hubbard who wrote a book about Skyjackers.

Just a name in a file - nothing more so don't make something out of it unless one was actually related to the other. Now, that could get interesting?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[GreyCopGC148 0]

mrshutter45

I think this is what he is trying to do. the second line is where you can see Kenn..E

See attachment......

Thank you.. if you slide the top of the R to the bottom of the v it will make a Y Then slide the E off the top of the N and now you can see KENNEY... now you can say GC 148 you've done it.. BTW Curtis Eng said that on 6-17-2013.... after I discovered the handwriting matches on 6-13-2013.

This is why I was 100% sure when I was on my way to the FBI.
Case solved 6-13-2013

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

***here is the FBI test photo along with the stairs fully extended

I've seen those many times. I don't see the point here. Guy goes down the stairs, okay. We can hope they didn't use hydraulics or something else to keep the stairs fully extended in flight. If not, it's a decent test. Maybe they should have had the guy jump at the approximate jump point claimed by the crew and Paul Soderlind's team. Then look around for a body.
All of the folks who keep trying to move the flight map west of Interstate 5 in the Vancouver area...in an attempt to explain the Tena Bar money...are missing a Really Big Point. You will NEVER prove that without some other information to present against it. And that means Rataczak. Be there, or be square. It's only fair. Maybe Cooper got eaten by a bear. Or landed here or there. Tripped off the stair. Do you care? (*laughs*)

Rataczak. Interview. Letter. Composed by a pilot would be best.

No wonder you didnt work for NWA or Soderlin!

Guy(s). Thingy(s). The True Story of - The Eskimow Pie! ?

[georger 197]

GreyCopGC148

***I think this is what he is trying to do. the second line is where you can see Kenn..E

See attachment......

Thank you.. if you slide the top of the R to the bottom of the v it will make a Y Then slide the E off the top of the N and now you can see KENNEY... now you can say GC 148 you've done it.. BTW Curtis Eng said that on 6-17-2013.... after I discovered the handwriting matches on 6-13-2013.

This is why I was 100% sure when I was on my way to the FBI.
Case solved 6-13-2013

And a Partridge in a Pear Tree! Hell I could make the ancient
Aramaic aleph-bet Jesus spoke and twenty other alphabets in
foreign languages out of those 'strokes'. All you've demonstrated
is that Proto Hominids still walk among us and toil away in
lines and strokes! Dont have one! YaHooooo!

Eng probably told you you had solved the case just to gain time
to call the looney squad!

[GreyCopGC148 0]

georger

******I think this is what he is trying to do. the second line is where you can see Kenn..E

See attachment......

Thank you.. if you slide the top of the R to the bottom of the v it will make a Y Then slide the E off the top of the N and now you can see KENNEY... now you can say GC 148 you've done it.. BTW Curtis Eng said that on 6-17-2013.... after I discovered the handwriting matches on 6-13-2013.

This is why I was 100% sure when I was on my way to the FBI.
Case solved 6-13-2013

And a Partridge in a Pear Tree! Hell I could make the ancient
Aramaic aleph-bet Jesus spoke and twenty other alphabets in
foreign languages out of those 'strokes'. All you've demonstrated
is that Proto Hominids still walk among us and toil away in
lines and strokes! Dont have one! YaHooooo!

Eng probably told you you had solved the case just to gain time
to call the looney squad!


Sorry Sir... but Curtis called me and told 2 weeks later and still said I had solved it... . DNA, finger prints, handwriting, are concrete....

So in this case DNA,Handwriting,will have to do thank you for being 1 of maybe 5 out of 100s that have seen my book how many have sold I do not know its been less than 30 days ?

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[georger 197]

GreyCopGC148

*********I think this is what he is trying to do. the second line is where you can see Kenn..E

See attachment......

Thank you.. if you slide the top of the R to the bottom of the v it will make a Y Then slide the E off the top of the N and now you can see KENNEY... now you can say GC 148 you've done it.. BTW Curtis Eng said that on 6-17-2013.... after I discovered the handwriting matches on 6-13-2013.

This is why I was 100% sure when I was on my way to the FBI.
Case solved 6-13-2013

And a Partridge in a Pear Tree! Hell I could make the ancient
Aramaic aleph-bet Jesus spoke and twenty other alphabets in
foreign languages out of those 'strokes'. All you've demonstrated
is that Proto Hominids still walk among us and toil away in
lines and strokes! Dont have one! YaHooooo!

Eng probably told you you had solved the case just to gain time
to call the looney squad!


Sorry Sir... but Curtis called me and told 2 weeks later and still said I had solved it... . DNA, finger prints, handwriting, are concrete....

So in this case DNA,Handwriting,will have to do thank you for being 1 of maybe 5 out of 100s that have seen my book how many have sold I do not know its been less than 30 days ?

I guess we'll be seeing you on CNN, Disney channel, and on the front page of Time. Blevins can arrange for you to lecture at Carnagie Watermelon!

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

*********here is the FBI test photo along with the stairs fully extended

I've seen those many times. I don't see the point here. Guy goes down the stairs, okay. We can hope they didn't use hydraulics or something else to keep the stairs fully extended in flight. If not, it's a decent test. Maybe they should have had the guy jump at the approximate jump point claimed by the crew and Paul Soderlind's team. Then look around for a body.
All of the folks who keep trying to move the flight map west of Interstate 5 in the Vancouver area...in an attempt to explain the Tena Bar money...are missing a Really Big Point. You will NEVER prove that without some other information to present against it. And that means Rataczak. Be there, or be square. It's only fair. Maybe Cooper got eaten by a bear. Or landed here or there. Tripped off the stair. Do you care? (*laughs*)

Rataczak. Interview. Letter. Composed by a pilot would be best.

No wonder you didnt work for NWA or Soderlin!

Guy(s). Thingy(s). The True Story of - The Eskimow Pie! ?

LOL why would I work for NWA in the 60's and 70's? They paid shit and benefits were lean. Every five years they dumped the employee files. If they weren't doing that, then their employees were busy going on strike. Are you kidding?

No wonder Kenny was pissed off after giving them years working on Schmoo, going off to work for the A-bomb guys, and then coming back later to Seattle to do NWA's purser training, and then years later still making $500 a month and living in some crap apartment in frickin' Sumner, WA. Digging ditches, picking apples, signing promissory notes you can't pay. Whatever.

I guess you could either keep stealing the toilet paper and little liquor bottles off the flights, or do something REALLY crazy.
Just a theory, of course.

"I vote for doing something really crazy, especially with your Boeing Buddy Who Worked on the 727 Program shoving you in the back." ???

Buddies plurally.

Now you have lost it! You think you are Bob Knoss!

[mrshutter45 21]

"Sorry Sir... but Curtis called me and told 2 weeks later and still said I had solved it... . DNA, finger prints, handwriting, are concrete.... "

Paul, if you claim that the fingerprints & the DNA match without out a doubt. I find it strange that the FBI
hasn't come forward. can you prove any of this? juggling some letters is one thing, but you are claiming the
DNA matches as well as the prints. they match all three within 2 weeks?

I believe you have been to the museum twice if not mistaken. what was there take on your claims. Bruce Smith was there once and had a problem resolved. Bruce even produced the email of the correction.

This should be an easy problem to resolve by calling the FBI. I'm sure it would be the talk of the entire department if true. one would think that something would have leaked out by now? 6-13-2013...it's now
10-12-2013

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

What 'face value'? He says he's the only one who knows. That's all. He doesn't say WHICH side. It implies nothing except he's the only one who knows. I don't have any 'dispute' with Bill Rataczak. I've never even spoken to him and my official position is that until definitive proof (or other witness testimony) is presented that the official flight path map is wrong, I tend to believe it.

You shouldn't be discussing this with me. A more neutral source is required.

Blevins, So your very own "official position" is that the so-called FBI maps show the "official flight path" and that they are correct? Have you been able to come up with an explanation as to why Himmelsbach reportedly never saw those maps until recently? And why no one at the Seattle FBI office apparently knows where they came from?

You are correct that I shouldn't be discussing this with you. That's a waste of time isn't it?

Finally, are you suggesting that I am a neutral source and you are not?

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

Grey Cop said below:

Quote

Sorry Sir... but Curtis called me and told 2 weeks later and still said I had solved it... . DNA, finger prints, handwriting, are concrete....

So in this case DNA,Handwriting,will have to do thank you for being 1 of maybe 5 out of 100s that have seen my book how many have sold I do not know its been less than 30 days ?

JO informs you:

1. They have NO handwriting belonging to Cooper unless there is a NOTE the FBI never revealed.

2. DNA the only dna was the tie and clip, but that has become so contaminated - the FBI can not depend on it. They also only had particial DNA. Recent word was even that one was doubtful, but earlier they said they had sufficient to rule individuals out and that statement has also changed.

3. Seriously doubt Curtis called you! Are you sure it was NOT someone playing a little game with you and not actually the FBI.


Option: If they have resulted to testing the stamps on the letters sent to the media - possibly they have DNA, but just because the DNA matchs or is familiar DNA does not make the person who mailed the Letter Cooper!

Sent Curtis COPIES of all of your posts declaring - that you actually communicate with him and questioning if he has actually said the things you claim in this thread

Guys, Why haven't one of you done this already?.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Now I have to pull Greys book out. I thought I read it all, but maybe I skipped parts of it to get to the end and never got back to the middle.

OR maybe what was written about BK was so disusting - I just blanked it out! IF true - WHAT a creep!

IF True it explains a lot of things about BK and his actions - ugghhhh!
Makes me sick to my stomach and right now it is giving me the creeps.
One can only imagine the expression on my face right now. Picture a child who has just tasted something vile and violently shaking his head as he tries to spit it out.

Still shaking my head and saying ughh!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber