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DB Cooper

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RobertMBlevins

Shutter says in part:

Quote

'he was seen tieing the money around his chest, I believe this is the only logical way to do it...'



Point of Order: I *think* Mucklow only saw him tying lines around the money bag, and another around his waist. I don't recall anything about Mucklow actually seeing him secure the money to his chest. If what I said there is true, then this could mean Cooper was planning on jumping with the money secured somewhat like the picture I have attached.

I still wonder if Cooper might have just pulled the ripcord at the end of the stairs. One reason: No reserve chute.

However, without a reserve...this could also mean Cooper DID tie the money to his chest. Who knows? ;) The point here is I don't believe Mucklow saw him do that.

Quote



Duane waddnt a shmoke yumpper, and neidder ar youdsk!

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Really do not have time to give you a lesson on this. Start with the Nickles and then right on to Missoula. They had to carry TOOLS and supplies and the best way to do that was between their legs. They had to separate these packages from themselves before landing or be hurt by their own equipment or run a risk of the equipment damaging the chute.

Depending on the equipment they carried. Large tools did NOT fit on the belly pack. You DAMN sure do NOT want to drop into a fire with out an ax and a shovel and fire protections.

He may have used the reserve and have attached his package in the place of the reserve, but since TINA claimed she saw him tieing a rope around his waste....riding it down between his legs could have been an option. Hence - THE WORLD GREATEST JOCK CARRIER.

It was Tina's description that was questionable and why her stating Cooper tied the rope around his waste that caused the jumpers to explore this option! The picture Duane left in the safe deposit box shows a barrel between the legs so COOPER could have jumped with his PACKAGE between his legs!

Tina's description is WHY the FBI went looking for SMOKEJUMPERS before any other category was explored. READ and LEARN! JO is NO dummy! Why don't you pick up the phone and call the old FBI or better yet, read Himmelsbachs book...I is a known fact they looked at SMOKE JUMPERS right off the BAT!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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georger



You came to the thread LATE on.
Do you know how Smokejumpers carried their packages?

Check out this photo

Quote



Duane wasn't a smoke jumper and neither are you!

how about, was there ever any smoke jumpers with loafer and a watch????B|;)

actually, if I was a smoke jumper, I would of worn my suit and walked up to the
counter with a pair of skis and a capB|

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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skyjack71

Really do not have time to give you a lesson on this. Start with the Nickles and then right on to Missoula. They had to carry TOOLS and supplies and the best way to do that was between their legs. They had to separate these packages from themselves before landing or be hurt by their own equipment or run a risk of the equipment damaging the chute.

Depending on the equipment they carried. Large tools did NOT fit on the belly pack. You DAMN sure do NOT want to drop into a fire with out an ax and a shovel and fire protections.

He may have used the reserve and have attached his package in the place of the reserve, but since TINA claimed she saw him tieing a rope around his waste....riding it down between his legs could have been an option. Hence - THE WORLD GREATEST JOCK CARRIER.

It was Tina's description that was questionable and why her stating Cooper tied the rope around his waste that caused the jumpers to explore this option! The picture Duane left in the safe deposit box shows a barrel between the legs so COOPER could have jumped with his PACKAGE between his legs!



I don't need a lesson from you, but thanks anyway.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

***

You came to the thread LATE on.
Do you know how Smokejumpers carried their packages?

Check out this photo

Quote



Duane wasn't a smoke jumper and neither are you!

how about, was there ever any smoke jumpers with loafer and a watch????B|;)

actually, if I was a smoke jumper, I would of worn my suit and walked up to the
counter with a pair of skis and a capB|

ja! my Ludfisk and boiled dinner in a brown paper bag. da sa
jacklik vademaecum! ans my mucklucks...:D

Weber. Isn't that Scadinavian?

Oly Weber? Toiville and Uoiville Weber who ran log cabins in
Akaslompolo and Yllas ...

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NO I am not a smoke jumper but I have interviewed many of them and so have others who did the research!

I do know the history of the origins of the search.

:)TINA said he wore ANKLE SHOES - Now chew on that one!

You are not a smoke jumper nor are you an FBI agent. You cannot be everything that is needed - that is why this thread exists - to explore all of the information - yet, here you are at this stage of the game and just exactly what are you.

You are NOT a smoke jumper.
You are not a pilot other than the assimilation (that is just a game).
You are NOT a jumper.
You are NOT a historian.
You obviously have NOT read the witness testimonies.

:PExactly what are your qualifications and what do you bring to this investigation? YOU definity are NOT well versed on the facts of the crime, so for crying out loud do NOT knock those who are!

How I feel about this right now!:P''

YOU DEFINITELY NEED A LESSON REGARDING THE ABOVE FACTS I HAVE JUST STATED.

Do what you know, but do NOT be a know it ALL! I admit my mistakes and some conversations I will only ASK questions such as the FLIGHT patterns or PLANE speeds. I will ask a layman or woman question.

It is the individual who WANTs to interject themselves in the search who make the most FALSE statements. WHY? They just want to be part of something - but that is NOT why most of us are here! The purpose I came to the DZ was to learn from the skyjumpers and the pilots....and I have.

The individuals who actually want to see this case end - try to interject FACTS - known and unknown about the case and the suspects. Then we get a know-it-all who gets his chest all puffed out because he got patted on the back about some things he contributed and then he SUDDENLY KNOWS ALL things about the crime!

THIS is HOW the MYTHS are BORN!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

NO I am not a smoke jumper but I have interviewed many of them and so have others who did the research!

I also know the history of the origins of the search.

As for loafer - TINA said he wore ANKLE SHOES - Now chew on that one!

You are not a smoke jumper nor are you an FBI agent. You cannot be everything that is needed - that is why this thread exists - to explore all of the information - yet, here you are at this stage of the game and just exactly what are you.

You are NOT a smoke jumper.
You are not a pilot other than the assimilation (that is just a game).
You are NOT a jumper.
You are NOT a historian.
You obviously have NOT read the witness testimonies.

Exactly what are your qualifications and what do you bring to this investigation? YOU definity are NOT well versed on the facts of the crime, so for crying out loud do NOT knock those who are!



Jo, exactly what are your qualifications? you are not an investigator, you don't even know if your records are correct. stop worrying about me and start worrying about the prison records you have! you are not a smoke jumper either, nor a historian, so stop contradicting yourself! why does my "assimulation" bother you so much? it has nothing to do with you. you want to play a game? lets chase a bunch a false leads for 18 years, that's one hell of a game and waste of a large part of your life! you got nothing dear.......

some say ankle loafers, if you are talking about the zipper jobs, those are boots, don't recall them changing from loafer/shoes to boots....

orange1...2008...I can't remember exactly where it was to go back and look - but my reading of the shoes description was loafer-type shoes that extended to the ankles.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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georger

***Shutter says in part:

Quote

'he was seen tieing the money around his chest, I believe this is the only logical way to do it...'



Point of Order: I *think* Mucklow only saw him tying lines around the money bag, and another around his waist. I don't recall anything about Mucklow actually seeing him secure the money to his chest. If what I said there is true, then this could mean Cooper was planning on jumping with the money secured somewhat like the picture I have attached.

I still wonder if Cooper might have just pulled the ripcord at the end of the stairs. One reason: No reserve chute.

However, without a reserve...this could also mean Cooper DID tie the money to his chest. Who knows? ;) The point here is I don't believe Mucklow saw him do that.

Quote



Duane waddnt a shmoke yumpper, and neidder ar youdsk!

Yeah. Whatever you say. That made a lot of sense. Well, not really. I wasn't talking about smokejumpers. :S

You are just bitter as hell about something, aren't you? I'm surprised you haven't smashed your computer to bits in frustration, LOL.



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Jo, exactly what are your qualifications?




The criminal records I have are CORRECT! What Ckret posted on the thread is NOT CORRECT. I had obtained thing the FBI did NOT know I had - prior to the destruction of said records. I had family record the FBI did NOT even bother to get.

I am not a smoke jumper but I have researched the SUBJECT for 18 yrs - have YOU?

The assimilation I do NOT have a problem with - I do have a problem with YOU claiming false information about FACTS of the crime - such as what TINA said or didn't say.

Have YOU interviewed Tina to see exactly what she was referring to when she said ANKLE SHOES - you can bet your last cent that she was NOT referring to Loafers...She knew exactly what a loafer was. It was not common knowledge among her age group to be familiar with men's shoes.

The only other type of shoe that comes to the ankle is the one with the zipper and the lace up ones. This was discussed in lenght in this thread and in book and other article - NO one knows how ankle shoes suddenly became loafers!

As for my spending 18 yrs on the research - it is what I had to do as NO ONE else was going to do it. This thread would NOT have existed had it NOT BEEN for my SEARCH you call WASTED!

There would NOT have been a simulation - had I not kept this thing going. There would NOT have been proof the FBI screwed up had it not been for my acquiring RECORDS the FBI claimed and discounted.

NONE of what this thread has done was done by me - but it provided the means I needed to find individuals who were interested in the crime and wanted to explore it.

Well, we have explored it and played with theories and ideas and this continues on and on. There have been those who strive to keep the facts open and in front and to remind those who make false claims that this or that was said - such as the shoes.

If the FACTS become so buried then NO one will EVER solve the crime. Remember the internet sometimes creates more problems than it solves.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71



Quote

Jo, exactly what are your qualifications?




The criminal records I have are CORRECT! What Ckret posted on the thread is NOT CORRECT. I had obtained thing the FBI did NOT know I had - prior to the destruction of said records. I had family record the FBI did NOT even bother to get.

I am not a smoke jumper but I have researched the SUBJECT for 18 yrs - have YOU?

The assimilation I do NOT have a problem with - I do have a problem with YOU claiming false information about FACTS of the crime - such as what TINA said or didn't say.

Have YOU interviewed Tina to see exactly what she was referring to when she said ANKLE SHOES - you can bet your last cent that she was NOT referring to Loafers...She knew exactly what a loafer was. It was not common knowledge among her age group to be familiar with men's shoes.

The only other type of shoe that comes to the ankle is the one with the zipper and the lace up ones. This was discussed in lenght in this thread and in book and other article - NO one knows how ankle shoes suddenly became loafers!

As for my spending 18 yrs on the research - it is what I had to do as NO ONE else was going to do it. This thread would NOT have existed had it NOT BEEN for my SEARCH you call WASTED!

There would NOT have been a simulation - had I not kept this thing going. There would NOT have been proof the FBI screwed up had it not been for my acquiring RECORDS the FBI claimed and discounted.

NONE of what this thread has done was done by me - but it provided the means I needed to find individuals who were interested in the crime and wanted to explore it.

Well, we have explored it and played with theories and ideas and this continues on and on. There have been those who strive to keep the facts open and in front and to remind those who make false claims that this or that was said - such as the shoes.

If the FACTS become so buried then NO one will EVER solve the crime. Remember the internet sometimes creates more problems than it solves.



Ckret asked you years ago why your records don't match what is on file. who do I believe, you or the FBI?


Orange1: 2008
I can't remember exactly where it was to go back and look - but my reading of the shoes description was loafer-type shoes that extended to the ankles.

why would you go thru talking with Tina and never send Duane's picture?

I don't have any proof of you speaking with Tina about the shoes, I'm reading loafer/shoes that fit to the ankle. the FBI has not changed it to boots. you say a lot, but prove very little.

"There would NOT have been a simulation - had I not kept this thing going." what in the world does that mean?

Tina's description: brown ankle length pebble grain shoes. nothing about a zipper or a loafer....

Ckret 2007: Mucklow spent hours with him and described his shoes in detail (something a woman might notice) even down to the grain of the leather. She was certain to state they were slip on's. There is nothing in the investigation that points to Mucklow not being reliable in her statement so I give it weight. Of course that is different than actual fact but I do believe Cooper had slip ons.

Slip-ons are typically low, lace-less shoes. The style most commonly seen, known as a loafer or slippers in American culture, has a moccasin construction. First appearing in the mid-1930s from Norway, Aurlandskoen (Aurland Shoe), they began as casual shoes, but have increased in popularity to the point of being worn in America with city lounge suits. They are worn in many situations in a wide variety of colours and designs, often featuring tassels on the front, or metal decorations (the 'Gucci' loafer).

doesn't most of the zipper type boots go above the ankle?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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From my smoke jumper friend:

Quote


Just looked at the latest posts ...
You are aware aren't you that all smokejumper tools and equipment is paracargoed in? None of this, as per Jo, tied to their waist and let down, as does the military. Never was done that way.
The pg bag is relatively recent in smokejumper gear evolution, coming on in the 80's or so with the advent and requirement of carrying the fire shelter. You won't see it in the earlier historical photos.
Also the jumpsuit/helmet was developed primarily for protection in timber jumps. Early smokejumping put the jumpers as close to the fire as possible, including into the timber. The helmet and collar were designed so that one could slide through the limbs. There is also webbing in the crotch, between the trouser legs, so you don't rack up your nuts. Training up until the mid 90's or so included a "timber jump". This isn't done any more. A "spot", an opening, needs to be found, even if it is a distance from the fire. Granted some of the spots are pretty small and people do tree up and/or crash through trees but you are not suppose to be spotted into the timber. The jump suits are padded and help with the landing but a good plf is very important to prevent injury.
You may have known all of this, not trying to insult you if you do, just fyi stuff.



That photo Blevins posted of a jumper lowering a bag on a lanyard while under canopy is an Army paratrooper not a USFS smoke jumper. I can tell by the canopy, no steering slots.

Sheridan made night sport jumps. Looks like his USFS training included at least one intentional timber jump. He had better training than copycats who succeeded.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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More from my smoke jumper friend:

Quote

I admire your willingness to get into the CooperZone fray Mark.

Not surprisingly points get missed as the usual posters stray off topic. Not claiming a smokejumper did the deed (although I think Sheridan is a top candidate). Just that the money load and a quick pull, as demonstrated by smokejumpers, don't pose insurmountable problems.

A non free fall jump off the stairs of the 727 is very doable (as Farflung and others have documented the number of complete novices who hijacked 727's and survived).
The quick pull solves several "problems" inherent in k free fall departure.
- no need to see the horizon to establish stability,
- a night jump is possible (see above ^),
- a symmetrical profile regarding gear, ie the money bundle, is not important (certainly smokejumpers lack this).

I do think the landing is critical. I do not think Cooper treed up, the canopy would have been found. A major disadvantage to a night jump would be the inability to spot an opening in which to steer to and land. Absent that it is just fate where you end up and land, and even someone with good PLF skills/experience could get busted up (or they could get lucky).



377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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skyjack71

The assimilation I do NOT have a problem with - I do have a problem with YOU claiming false information about FACTS of the crime - such as what TINA said or didn't say.

Have YOU interviewed Tina to see exactly what she was referring to when she said ANKLE SHOES - you can bet your last cent that she was NOT referring to Loafers...She knew exactly what a loafer was. It was not common knowledge among her age group to be familiar with men's shoes.



Jo, Your quote above is directed to Shutter. You definitely imply above that you interviewed Tina, that you knew what Tina's inner thoughts were on shoes, as well as what she said or didn't say about the hijacking.

Nevertheless, in your post #43401, page 1737, May 15, 2013, your very first sentence is as follows:

"Tina and I had a very limited conversation and it was not about the flight."

Jo, You are just blowing smoke here. By your own admission, you haven't even discussed the hijacking with Tina!

Robert99

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377 says in part:

Quote

That photo Blevins posted of a jumper lowering a bag on a lanyard while under canopy is an Army paratrooper not a USFS smoke jumper. I can tell by the canopy, no steering slots.

Sheridan made night sport jumps. Looks like his USFS training included at least one intentional timber jump. He had better training than copycats who succeeded.

377



I think Sheridan Peterson could have pulled off the Cooper heist, but I have a couple of problems with that scenario.

The hijacker was ill-dressed for a jump. I don't think Peterson would have come to the party like that.

He was a teacher and had good morals, from all the available evidence. He's been involved in civil rights, run for a school board position, and even wrote an 800 page-plus antiwar book. It seems anathema to his basic nature that he would stoop to threatening peoples' lives just to extort money. This, I think, would be beneath him.

Not long before the jump, he was living in Tibet and testimony has shown he was there for the birth of his daughter.

The FBI investigated him pretty good.

It's a romantic thought though, I will admit. Hard to imagine him chain-smoking Raleighs, sucking bourbon, and coming dressed in a suit and some loafers for a hijacking. I doubt he even smokes.


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RobertMBlevins

377 says in part:

Quote

That photo Blevins posted of a jumper lowering a bag on a lanyard while under canopy is an Army paratrooper not a USFS smoke jumper. I can tell by the canopy, no steering slots.

Sheridan made night sport jumps. Looks like his USFS training included at least one intentional timber jump. He had better training than copycats who succeeded.

377



I think Sheridan Peterson could have pulled off the Cooper heist, but I have a couple of problems with that scenario.

The hijacker was ill-dressed for a jump. I don't think Peterson would have come to the party like that.

He was a teacher and had good morals, from all the available evidence. He's been involved in civil rights, run for a school board position, and even wrote an 800 page-plus antiwar book. It seems anathema to his basic nature that he would stoop to threatening peoples' lives just to extort money. This, I think, would be beneath him.

Not long before the jump, he was living in Tibet and testimony has shown he was there for the birth of his daughter.

The FBI investigated him pretty good.

It's a romantic thought though, I will admit. Hard to imagine him chain-smoking Raleighs, sucking bourbon, and coming dressed in a suit and some loafers for a hijacking. I doubt he even smokes.



speaking of how the hijackers were dressed, what was McCoy wearing? anyone know?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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From McCoy's entry at FBI.gov:

Quote

'Observed by Second Officer Floyd Smith (fictitious name) through a slight space under the cockpit door, the hijacker quickly put on a jumpsuit, helmet, and parachute. Once he had shut off the cabin lights to better view the ground, the gunman demanded to be kept abreast of wind, ground, and air speeds; altimeter settings; and sky conditions...'




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georger

************Meyer Louie says in part:

Quote

'Boy, Blevins, sounds like you are on top of things with the Cossey case. Let's hope they catch that burglar down the road a couple of blocks away and...'



Guess you missed the part where I said they ALREADY caught him. I suggested he should be questioned. Seemed like a reasonable thought, since he hit a house less than two blocks from Cossey's place. :S

_______________________________________________

And what the f**k does that accoomplish? They caught a common burglar in the neighborhood. When they ask, "Did you kill that guy a couple of blocks away?", what's he going to say? "Yes, Occifer, I did it." Pathetic line of reasoning. So what?

MeyerLouie


_______________________________________________

Meyer Louie also says:

***'There's a lot more I want to say about this, but, unlike someone I know, I'm going to practice restraint and reserve comment...'



Slightly hypocritical statement. You've suggested previously he could have been murdered, or set up for murder, by his ex-wife. I wouldn't call that 'restraint'.

______________________________________________


And what have you suggested? Read below...all you have created is a 'tangled web.' Of what? You're damn straight I've suggested murder, because Cossey was murdered, and it's not yet determined by whom or why. Since no one knows what really happened, and since you, and others, have taken liberty to speculate, it's entirely legit for me to speculate about possibilities -- murder for hire, Mrs. Cossey, other Cossey family members, the gambling lead, random act, greed and money -- it's all fair game. Earlier, I speculated that because the murder was committed in Cossey's garage, it may mean the murder was personal and planned, hence premeditated -- not some "ordinary" burglar who would rather run than kill (you can't seem to distinguish between these two types of burglary -- Cossey's burglar may very well have had murder on his or her mind)

And Blevins, I don't really care if you don't like my speculations, or if they violate your sense of feasible-ness and morality. I'll say it again, Blevins, real slow this time: Law enforcment is going to check out all leads -- whether you think so or not, and that includes Mrs. Cossey. It's SOP. Closest family members are always at the top of suspect list. I assure you, investigators will ask all the questions: What financial arrangements existed between her and Earl? What policies were in place that affected both? Who stood the most to gain? I also wonder about Cossey getting murdered a year after his divorce, after a marriage that had lasted years and years. Uncanny timing, or is it coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. It's going to all be investigated, whether you think so or not, whether you like it or not.

Moreover, I have just as much right to speculate as you do. I don't need your approval. Now go out and play.

MeyerLouie


_______________________________________________


Blevins 'tangled web' never leads anywhere ... but to more
tangled webs of abstraction. [:/] Who is Blevins trying to
convince of what!? Does it ever matter? :D

_______________________________________________


That's right, Blevins is, the big to-do'er-of-nothing.

MeyerLouie

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mrshutter45

***Shutter says in part:

Quote

'he was seen tieing the money around his chest, I believe this is the only logical way to do it...'



Point of Order: I *think* Mucklow only saw him tying lines around the money bag, and another around his waist. I don't recall anything about Mucklow actually seeing him secure the money to his chest. If what I said there is true, then this could mean Cooper was planning on jumping with the money secured somewhat like the picture I have attached.

I still wonder if Cooper might have just pulled the ripcord at the end of the stairs. One reason: No reserve chute.

However, without a reserve...this could also mean Cooper DID tie the money to his chest. Who knows? ;) The point here is I don't believe Mucklow saw him do that.



well, first of all, I was talking about the fact of Cooper tying the money to himself, if this was true, then the lower chest area would be the best way. it's entirely possible he tethered the line. smokejumpers seem to put the pouch just underneath the reserve, it's the only logical place, other than a tether. either way, I don't believe it proves a smokejumpers move...

you are probably correct about Tina only seeing him tying something around his waist/chest...I think he had almost 80 feet of line? 79 and change if not mistaken....I think all of the smokejumpers I have seen have a reserve chute.

_______________________________________________


While Cooper is making room for the moneybag -- where did he put the briefcase and dummy chute? Is it possible DBC put the briefcase in the dummy chute, strapped it on in front, tethered the moneybag below, and of course had the main chute behind. This might explain why he took the dummy chute -- to carry the briefcase. To the experts now, is this arrangement possble? Would he have been able to make enough room in the dummy chute to squeeze in, or lock in, the briiefcase (if he really had a bomb in the briefcase, taking it and squeezing it in might be a big gamble, but if the bomb was a fake, then it wouldn't be a concern -- he would then have some nice road flares to start a fire).

MeyerLouie

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As Jason Stratham said in the famous film:

Quote


So YOU don't think it's a good idea to ask someone who was caught in a burglary just up the street from Cossey's house where he was when Cossey was killed? Man, I'm glad you aren't on the police force in my neighborhood. LOL tell it to the judge. And good luck to you.

Again...

Quote

'I'm not trying to prove anything. But let's see...someone breaks into Cossey's place. He's found dead in the garage. The stuff in his wallet is mailed back later. Couple of weeks later, another burglary just a stroll away from Cossey's house...and they CATCH this burglar. Tell me how it doesn't make sense the police should at least ask him his whereabouts at the time of Cossey's murder?'



Quote

'Hello...(hello)...is there anybody IN there...'



Georger made fun of that idea. (too)

LOL no wonder he hasn't figured out Cooper yet.

And neither will you until you get past personalities. This isn't a Popularity Contest. It's a search for the truth. Don't get sucked into the Cooperland Vortex. B|


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RobertMBlevins

From McCoy's entry at FBI.gov:

Quote

'Observed by Second Officer Floyd Smith (fictitious name) through a slight space under the cockpit door, the hijacker quickly put on a jumpsuit, helmet, and parachute. Once he had shut off the cabin lights to better view the ground, the gunman demanded to be kept abreast of wind, ground, and air speeds; altimeter settings; and sky conditions...'



this kind of shows what someone with experience would do. not the point of the jump being possible. once the plane took off, Cooper had no idea of the weather, speed or altitude. this doesn't prove the jumps not possible, but we have a huge difference between the two.....
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Is it possible DBC put the briefcase in the dummy chute, strapped it on in front,




Very doubtful...vastly different in size & shape.

'IF' DBC was up to speed on the gear, I'd be skeptical regarding putting much of anything in the reserve container or 'dummy chute'.

They are by design very easy and quick to open, they basically are four flaps held closed by a couple of short/thin pins attached to a large heavy handle.

The contents are what give it it's 'shape' and assist in keeping it close until needed.

It would be pretty dicey trying to pack it with bundles and HOPE the pins stay put & keep it closed securely.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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If Cooper WAS a trained Smoke Jumper, or experienced Military Rough Terrain Jumper, he would NOT lower the money bag, that would chance it getting caught up, and he getting placed horizontally across the treetops, and landing in a more precarious position. I (and Amazon, Walt, etc) covered this a hundred-ish pages back.

Matt

Master Trainer, 1997 to 1999
US Army Airborne School
AAOD/Jump Branch
Actually Trained and Employed as a Paratrooper
Oct 1986 through Oct 2007
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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airtwardo

Quote

Is it possible DBC put the briefcase in the dummy chute, strapped it on in front,




Very doubtful...vastly different in size & shape.

'IF' DBC was up to speed on the gear, I'd be skeptical regarding putting much of anything in the reserve container or 'dummy chute'.

They are by design very easy and quick to open, they basically are four flaps held closed by a couple of short/thin pins attached to a large heavy handle.

The contents are what give it it's 'shape' and assist in keeping it close until needed.

It would be pretty dicey trying to pack it with bundles and HOPE the pins stay put & keep it closed securely.



Yes...and if he had done this, there where is the limited amount of nylon that would have been inside? Or whatever this trainer was stuffed with. Not found on plane. I keep wondering whether Cooper just tossed the reserve unopened out of the plane, and if so, why it has never been discovered. My understanding is that it couldn't be attached to another chute harness. You have to wonder about that. And the briefcase? Not found either.

On the money bag: Only thing for sure is that Cooper was seen tying some paracord around his waist, just before Mucklow closed the curtain. After that...?


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mrshutter45

***Really do not have time to give you a lesson on this. Start with the Nickles and then right on to Missoula. They had to carry TOOLS and supplies and the best way to do that was between their legs. They had to separate these packages from themselves before landing or be hurt by their own equipment or run a risk of the equipment damaging the chute.

Depending on the equipment they carried. Large tools did NOT fit on the belly pack. You DAMN sure do NOT want to drop into a fire with out an ax and a shovel and fire protections.

He may have used the reserve and have attached his package in the place of the reserve, but since TINA claimed she saw him tieing a rope around his waste....riding it down between his legs could have been an option. Hence - THE WORLD GREATEST JOCK CARRIER.

It was Tina's description that was questionable and why her stating Cooper tied the rope around his waste that caused the jumpers to explore this option! The picture Duane left in the safe deposit box shows a barrel between the legs so COOPER could have jumped with his PACKAGE between his legs!



I don't need a lesson from you, but thanks anyway.
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You NEED A LESSON FROM SOMEONE BEFORE YOU DISTORT THE COMPLETE CASE! You are typical of jerks who change the facts.

Your Objective:
To erase the facts and replace them with your own ideology which is not supported by the original information provided.

To do something like this defeats the purpose of the thread. You made a contribution, but STOP creating MYTHS! If you are truely interested in this crime - read and absorb the information ABOUT the crime that was given by the FBI and the media early on. DO NOT fabricated things - and by mocking & discounting nor the fact the FBI went looking for smoke jumpers BECAUSE of observations made by the crew! Tying a rope to his waist was a smoke jumper move. The military did NOT resort to such as their equipment was ready and equipped for unusual activity. Perhaps a military individuals first move would have been to attach the package in place of the reserve.

Smoke Jumper had to utilize anything they could put their hands on!

Read all of the books and new articles during those first few yrs and realize that information you sometimes read on line has been distorted by individuals like yourself - as judged by your own statement and actions and reactions to being corrected.

Duane Weber was NOT a smoke jumper, but he was exposed and trained. He just didn't make the grade, but that did NOT stop him from being with the individuals he idolized and who did smoke jump.
NOT all of the GUYS were smoke jumpers - but, most of them knew what needed to be done if they ever found themselves in a position to utilize what they had learned.

DO you know how many young men trained to be jumpers, but wiped out with the first jump! ONLY those who made it thru the entire process were employed or listed as smokejumper - some would remain as helpers such as packing the chutes, cooking the meals and other trivial jobs just to be were they wanted to be and to continue relationships that formed during the training process. These guys still remained friends.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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