DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

SNOWMMAN SNOWMMAN GO TO PIC THAT WAS IN WIKIPEDIA CPS31firecrew.jpg. Second MAN FROM THE LEFT. THEN GO LOOK AT THE PICTURES OF DUANE FROM 1943 IN HIS NAVY UNIFORM - LOOK AT THE PEAK IN THE HAIRLINE. LOOK AT HIS BUILD - AM I SEEING THINGS. LOOK AT HIS FACE - WHO WAS THAT BOY?
WE HAVE TO PUT A NAME TO THAT GUY - I THINK IT LOOKS A LOT LIKE DUANE.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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SNOWMMAN SNOWMMAN GO TO PIC THAT WAS IN WIKIPEDIA CPS31firecrew.jpg. Second MAN FROM THE LEFT. THEN GO LOOK AT THE PICTURES OF DUANE FROM 1943 IN HIS NAVY UNIFORM - LOOK AT THE PEAK IN THE HAIRLINE. LOOK AT HIS BUILD - AM I SEEING THINGS. LOOK AT HIS FACE - WHO WAS THAT BOY?
WE HAVE TO PUT A NAME TO THAT GUY - I THINK IT LOOKS A LOT LIKE DUANE.

Jo, you got to stop doing this. This is the reason I always tell myself "don't feed Jo"

I went and looked. Their names are listed under the photo at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:CPS31firecrew.jpg
1945. Left to right: Karl Unruh, Melvin Duerkson, Leo Harder, Melvin Flickenger and Max Miller.

Yes you are seeing things. You have to think about how utterly improbable it would be for Duane to even be in that picture to start with. You gotta get a grip Jo.

The US population in 1944 was 138,397,345
http://www.demographia.com/db-uspop1900.htm

All those people had interesting lives and did interesting things and had raincoats and stuff.

Did you see how small the number of CPS smokejumpers was?

I only posted that stuff so you might be able to have a source for where you got your ideas or references about WWII smokejumper stories, and let it go. You were talking about whether you were delusional remembering some random story. I'm thinking the random story might have had some stray linkages...but the problem is you leap from those factoids, to the most crazy thoughts.

At the very least, you should start to see that there were lots of people, doing interesting things, all over the place, besides Duane.

(edit) on 2nd thought, maybe Jo's yanking my chain..if so she got me.

(edit) also, I wasn't aware of the history of the "Triple Nickles" ..sorry if my ignorance offended anyone
http://www.smokejumpers.com/history/the_triple_nickle.php

[georger 197]

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Sluggo,

Remember that when they took off the plan was to have Mucklow drop the stairs. Just after takeoff Cooper changed his mind, so I am sure there was some conversation invloved. In regards to the raincoat, I think we have to assume he had it on when he jumped. He did not leave it on the plane but he did leave his tie and the two other chutes. If he was not going to wear the coat I am sure he would have left it as well. I think he threw the briefcase as a favor to Tina.

As for the paper bag, he must have put that in his coat pocket when he jumped.

Thanks Ckret -
George

[georger 197]

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LaPoint was the last jumper that I hadn't posted a photo of. (attached)
That completes photos of
McCoy
McNally
LaPoint
Heady
Hahneman
I think that's all the jumpers, including Cooper.

2) Another interesting case, which was apparently the first where the hijacker received money. was 1970, not a jumper.
He was a nut job.
Arthur G. Barkley, June 4, 1970
had a tax grudge ($471). Demanded $100 million.
Apparently the first where they actually gave a hijacker money? They gave him $100,750
Not a jumper (note before Cooper)

There's a picture of Barkley during the hijack that was taken by a passenger on the plane. Full article attached.

(edit) Oddly enough, Barkley was on a 727. I guess shows how common they were. Time's account on 7/15/70 is at http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,909374,00.html

really strange: quote from the wife afterwards. She was just as whacked: (she's talking about the IRS case he tried taking all the way to the Supreme Court.
(also could example of grudge+money, as I've noted before)

"They gave him a runaround," his wife said. "They wouldn't even listen to him. He did it [the hijacking] to draw attention to his cause. They are letting us sit here and starve to death." Two late-model Cadillacs, however, registered to the Barkleys, were parked outside the house even as she was speaking.

REPLY: Ive been following these - some amazing stories here. Common threads throughout. Thanks..

[377 20]

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Sluggo,
In regards to the raincoat, I think we have to assume he had it on when he jumped. He did not leave it on the plane but he did leave his tie and the two other chutes. If he was not going to wear the coat I am sure he would have left it as well.

IF Cooper was wearing a raincoat, there is a real possibility that loose fabric could cause major problems. The chances of an obscured/blocked ripcord handle access go waaay up and a no pull becomes more likely. I can easily imagine a scenario in which a pull would be nearly impossible while tumbling wildly at night. Even if you had the presence of mind to try and uncover the ripcord handle, you have inadequate illumination to see the mess and visually figure out how to resolve it. Anything you do that favors one side (like using both hands to pull raincoat fabric away from the ripcord handle area) creates aerodynamic asymmetry and the tumbling/spinning only gets worse.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[AggieDave 6]

Snowman,

The more I read and the longer this goes the more I believe the following quoted text is 100% true. In my day to day professional life I come in contact with a large number of people with mental health illnesses. All in all its very sad and I wish everyone would receive the help they need, but many times the afflicted person doesn't want any help. I've met a lot of people that have similar stories to Jo, in regards to how far fetched and nonfactual, also with the same fabricated connections using minor unimportant details.

Quote

Symptoms of Delusional Disorder
Rashmi Nemade, Ph.D. & Mark Dombeck, Ph.D.

Delusional Disorder. Like schizophrenia, delusional disorder is characterized by the presence of delusions that persist for at least one month, and which often involve prominent psychotic themes: erotomanic, grandiose, jealous, persecutory, and/or somatic. Unlike schizophrenia, however, hallucinations are not prominent, unless related to the delusions. Delusional disorder also tends to start later in life than schizophrenia, and tends to leave patients' psychosocial functioning (their ability to care for themselves, work, have relationships, etc.) relatively unimpaired (See the section above covering delusional types for more detail).

The following diagnostic criteria must be met before a diagnosis of Delusional Disorder is warranted, according to the DSM-IV-TR:

A) Non bizarre delusions (i.e., involving situations that occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, infected, loved at a distance, or deceived by spouse or lover, or having a disease) of at least 1 month's duration.

B) Criterion A for Schizophrenia has never been met.

C) Apart from the impact of the delusion(s) or its ramifications, functioning is not markedly impaired and behavior is not obviously odd or bizarre

D) If mood episodes have occurred concurrently with delusions, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the delusional periods

E) The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=8822&cn=7

[skyjack71 0]

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All in all its very sad . I've met a lot of people that have similar stories to Jo, in regards to how far fetched and nonfactual, also with the same fabricated connections using minor unimportant details

Ms AGGIE:
You have yet to produce your credentials. You never come to this forum except in intercede regarding MY mental health and YOU do not KNOW me.
I might get excited about something , but I keep searching for the truth - and yes I will jump on anything that looks like it might be - but I go out to try to verify it.

The man in that Picture has a name - but I will verify who the picture is of that man is and his identification. I try to leave NO stone unturned.


SNOWMMAN:

You are right I was kidding, but don't you think it looks like DUANE? What did I tell you AGGIE only comes on to demean me in any way SHE can.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Sluggo,

Remember that when they took off the plan was to have Mucklow drop the stairs. Just after takeoff Cooper changed his mind, so I am sure there was some conversation invloved. In regards to the raincoat, I think we have to assume he had it on when he jumped. He did not leave it on the plane but he did leave his tie and the two other chutes. If he was not going to wear the coat I am sure he would have left it as well. I think he threw the briefcase as a favor to Tina.

As for the paper bag, he must have put that in his coat pocket when he jumped.

CKRET:
If Cooper jumped with the raincoat - how could the stewardess see a tie and clasp on him - WHY leave the tie and keep the raincoat?

I also asked about a RUMOR going around BATTLEGROUND the other day - as one of the residents contacted me. I ask if it there was anything to it. I didn't deserve the way the FBI (you) treated me in regards to the file being made public on this forum but you don't bother answer a simple direct questions.

I even told you in that post that I don't know how to highlight. If you don't want to answer in the forum there is PM and you also know my phone number.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

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I didn't deserve the way the FBI (you) treated me in regards to the file being made public on this forum

Jo,

I am sorry that you may have been embarrassed or humiliated, but how can you take a law enforcement official to task for disclosing a public record about a criminal? Do you ever think about Duane's many victims and how their lives were impacted by his actions?

When he would upgrade his apparel with restaurant cloak room swaps, didn't you think about the person whose coat was stolen by Duane? You knew he was doing it. Did you reprimand him or demand that he return the stolen item?

I know love can blind and I know you do not condone crime. You did however go along for the ride in some instances.

I just think Duane made a lot of people miserable and you should be able to tolerate some of the embarrassing consequences of his selfish actions.

It is time to stop giving Ckret a hard time about the record disclosure. He apologized which is more than many would have done.

I do think you are obsessed with proving Duane was Cooper, but I do not share the view that this is a psychosis or delusional thinking. There is evidence to support your theory, but there is also evidence to the contrary which you ignore or attack.

I do hope you resolve the mystery to your satisfaction during your trip. I know how it must feel to be certain of something that everyone else discounts as a delusion. I do have sympathy for you, and felt your pain during some of the vicious attacks that were posted months ago when you got into the James Earl Ray and MLK topics. The forum is much more civil now. I just want to be sure you are being fair to those who do not share your views.

peace,
377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

following aggiedave's post (and Jo, bear in mind that many of us long time dz.com forum members know and respect aggiedave's credentials) i thought it worth repeating this one (which I got a couple of complimentary PM's on at the time)

377 - i personally do think some of the technical definitions of delusion sound like they fit the case (at first i thought "delusion" was a harsh term until i actually looked into it a bit more - particularly see the 3 main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional below), but at the very least i don't think anyone can deny the confirmation bias/"myside bias" angle:

Quote

-----
Confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions and avoids information and interpretations which contradict prior beliefs. It is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference, or as a form of selection bias toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study or disconfirmation of an alternative hypothesis.

Confirmation bias is of interest in the teaching of critical thinking, as the skill is misused if rigorous critical scrutiny is applied only to evidence challenging a preconceived idea but not to evidence supporting it.

The term "myside bias" was coined by the geneticist, David Perkins, myside referring to "my" side of the issue under consideration. An important consequence of the myside bias is that many incorrect beliefs are slow to change and often become stronger even when evidence is presented which should weaken the belief. Generally, such irrational belief persistence results from according too much weight to evidence that accords with one's belief, and too little weight to evidence that does not. It can also result from the failure to search impartially for information.

Jonathan Baron describes many instances where myside bias affects our lives. For example, students who perform poorly suffer from irrational belief persistence when they fail to criticize their own ideas and remain rigid in their mistaken beliefs. These students suffer from myside bias because they do not look for, or tend to ignore, evidence against their mistaken claims. Baron also mentions certain forms of psychopathology as good examples of myside bias. Delusional patients, for instance, might continually wrongly believe that a cough or sneeze means that they are dying, even when doctors insist that they are healthy.

--
Particular accusations of conspiracy vary widely in their plausibility, but some common standards for assessing their likely truth value may be applied in each case:
• Occam's razor - is the alternative story more complicated and therefore less probable than the mainstream story?
• Logic - Do the proofs offered follow the rules of logic, or do they employ Fallacies of logic?
• Methodology - are the proofs offered for the argument well constructed, i.e., using sound methodology? Is there any clear standard to determine what evidence would prove or disprove the theory?
• Whistleblowers - how many people — and what kind — have to be loyal conspirators?
• Falsifiability - Is it possible to demonstrate that specific claims of the theory are true, or are they "unfalseifiable"?
---------
The psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:
• certainty (held with absolute conviction)
• incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
• impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

These criteria still continue in modern psychiatric diagnosis. In the most recent Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a delusion is defined as: A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everybody else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary.

In practice psychiatrists tend to diagnose a belief as delusional if it is either patently bizarre, causing significant distress, or excessively pre-occupies the patient, especially if the person is subsequently unswayed in belief by counter-evidence or reasonable arguments.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Sluggo,
In regards to the raincoat, I think we have to assume he had it on when he jumped. He did not leave it on the plane but he did leave his tie and the two other chutes. If he was not going to wear the coat I am sure he would have left it as well.

IF Cooper was wearing a raincoat, there is a real possibility that loose fabric could cause major problems. The chances of an obscured/blocked ripcord handle access go waaay up and a no pull becomes more likely. I can easily imagine a scenario in which a pull would be nearly impossible while tumbling wildly at night. Even if you had the presence of mind to try and uncover the ripcord handle, you have inadequate illumination to see the mess and visually figure out how to resolve it. Anything you do that favors one side (like using both hands to pull raincoat fabric away from the ripcord handle area) creates aerodynamic asymmetry and the tumbling/spinning only gets worse.

377

This is a very good explanation for me, 377. Thanks.

I can imagine an experiment that might result in a significant percentage of deaths now. Possibly even with experienced jumpers.

Jump with raincoat on under harness. At night, from 10k ft. Jet exit. rain/temp is probably not a big variable, so ignore that.

In looking at the harness, I'm not clear on whether a raincoat would really flap as much as people say. (just not obvious to me).

If this was the discovery channel, it'd be nice to have a bunch of novices in a raincoat with an nb-6 in a tunnel in the dark, seeing how many can find the rip, and how long it takes or if they can't find it. (if people call ckret about shows, have them do that! and maybe tie the money bag on while you're at it)

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I can imagine an experiment that might result in a significant percentage of deaths now. Possibly even with experienced jumpers.

Jump with raincoat on under harness. At night, from 10k ft. Jet exit. rain/temp is probably not a big variable, so ignore that.

In looking at the harness, I'm not clear on whether a raincoat would really flap as much as people say. (just not obvious to me).

If this was the discovery channel, it'd be nice to have a bunch of novices in a raincoat with an nb-6 in a tunnel in the dark, seeing how many can find the rip, and how long it takes or if they can't find it. (if people call ckret about shows, have them do that! and maybe tie the money bag on while you're at it)

(sigh) .. snow, this is why some of the experienced jumpers get irritated with this forum (i.e. your questioning the problems with wearing loose clothing). but i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt knowing how you like to prove things. btw for your tunnel experiment - you don't even need the dark. it would be interesting enough to see how long it would take even in the light. remember - from 10K, you have about 50 seconds till you impact the ground, & probably about 35 seconds till you are still at a survivable opening altitude.

Here's an example of a similar but seemingly much less minor factor (just the inside of a pocket) causing major problems - and bear in mind Cooper didn't have any silver (reserve handle) to pull (and even if he did, the length of a raincoat could well cover that handle too):
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=242477;search_string=clothes%20jump;#242477

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Thanks orange1. Yes I am clueless on the jump stuff. Sometimes I don't know where the opinions come from. I'm picturing a raincoat, buttoned or zipped, bunched up under a harness. If it's obvious it flaps, okay.

Another topic.

Paul Cini's attempt on 11/12/71. We've only talked about that briefly. I'm now thinking that the copycat theory for Cooper may be stronger than stated before.

I've been reading a lot of '71 papers. Amazing amounts of violence. Vietnam, bombings in U.S. (I think 31 in WA in '71). Right wing groups like the Minutemen were being arrested in Seattle for planning bank robberies.

Parachuting was novel. Pics of jump off 1000' ft bridge in CO, and parachuting Santas next to stories of hijacks. It was like all the elements of the crime were right there in the paper.

So I got to thinking about the Cini attempt. What was important, if Cooper copycat'ed, was what was in the papers.

news article attached from 11/13/71

All the elements are there. Dynamite, Ransom. Cini asked for $1.5 million. Got $50k.
Cini details (trivia): He was 5'7". Dark curly hair. Swarthy complexion. Long black coat, apparently used to hide his shotgun. He apparently fired it once.

Was going to jump from around 3k-4k ft? (didn't have chute on yet) Apparently wanted to go out an emergency exit window? Said he would blow the tail off if they didn't help?

(edit) another article points out how Cini was messed up about flight path/fuel also. They flew to Great Falls, where he got the money. Then took off for Regina, Sask. where they were going to refuel for going to Ireland. But after takeoff, they returned to Great Falls, got 7000 gallons (not enough for Ireland), released the passengers...then took off first saying NY, then changed to Phoenix, then changed again to return to Calgary.


orange1: I guess I'm reviewing the theory that Cooper was just an ordinary guy. No aviation/parachute skills. Just a natural progression of what was happening in the hijack world back then.

(edit) added Cini family detail

(edit) I just realized this copycat timeline
11/13/71 (papers) Paul Cini attempt
11/17/71 (papers) Arthur G. Barkley, the first US hijack that got ransom (in 1970), at trial is declared not guilty by reason of insanity.
11/23/71 (papers) Donald B. Irwin, commercial artist
sentenced to psych hospital 12 1/2 yrs. for 1970 hijack attempt. (attached). He passed a note.
11/24/71 Cooper hijack

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

I didn't deserve the way the FBI (you) treated me in regards to the file being made public on this forum

Jo,

I am sorry that you may have been embarrassed or humiliated, but how can you take a law enforcement official to task for disclosing a public record about a criminal? Do you ever think about Duane's many victims and how their lives were impacted by his actions?

When he would upgrade his apparel with restaurant cloak room swaps, didn't you think about the person whose coat was stolen by Duane? You knew he was doing it. Did you reprimand him or demand that he return the stolen item?

I know love can blind and I know you do not condone crime. You did however go along for the ride in some instances.

I just think Duane made a lot of people miserable and you should be able to tolerate some of the embarrassing consequences of his selfish actions.

It is time to stop giving Ckret a hard time about the record disclosure. He apologized which is more than many would have done.

I do think you are obsessed with proving Duane was Cooper, but I do not share the view that this is a psychosis or delusional thinking. There is evidence to support your theory, but there is also evidence to the contrary which you ignore or attack.

I do hope you resolve the mystery to your satisfaction during your trip. I know how it must feel to be certain of something that everyone else discounts as a delusion. I do have sympathy for you, and felt your pain during some of the vicious attacks that were posted months ago when you got into the James Earl Ray and MLK topics. The forum is much more civil now. I just want to be sure you are being fair to those who do not share your views.

peace,
377

REPLY: What are the odds this will work? (hee hee)

[georger 197]

I can imagine an experiment that might result in a significant percentage of deaths now. Possibly even with experienced jumpers.

Jump with raincoat on under harness. At night, from 10k ft. Jet exit. rain/temp is probably not a big variable, so ignore that.

In looking at the harness, I'm not clear on whether a raincoat would really flap as much as people say. (just not obvious to me).

REPLY: I just cant see this flapping raincoat especially in the upper section which would interfere
with the pulling ring?. I must be missing something.
Most raincoats (trench coat) are fairly tight fitting.
Its not like a lot of lose material. In a fall or in stiff wind these raincoats compress against the body.
(like standing at the front of a ship in a trench coat).
The coat could serve as an excellent windbreak.
Ah! Maybe he had tried this before and knew firsthand how a trenchcoat would work? Keep in mind
he has to cross several boundaries at once in his dress - civilian acceptability, cover, annoymity,
windbreak while parachuting? The selection may
have been intentional based one experience.

How many other jumpers wore trench coats?

Georger

[georger 197]

Quote

Snowman,

The more I read and the longer this goes the more I believe the following quoted text is 100% true. In my day to day professional life I come in contact with a large number of people with mental health illnesses. All in all its very sad and I wish everyone would receive the help they need, but many times the afflicted person doesn't want any help. I've met a lot of people that have similar stories to Jo, in regards to how far fetched and nonfactual, also with the same fabricated connections using minor unimportant details.

Quote

Symptoms of Delusional Disorder
Rashmi Nemade, Ph.D. & Mark Dombeck, Ph.D.

Delusional Disorder. Like schizophrenia, delusional disorder is characterized by the presence of delusions that persist for at least one month, and which often involve prominent psychotic themes: erotomanic, grandiose, jealous, persecutory, and/or somatic. Unlike schizophrenia, however, hallucinations are not prominent, unless related to the delusions. Delusional disorder also tends to start later in life than schizophrenia, and tends to leave patients' psychosocial functioning (their ability to care for themselves, work, have relationships, etc.) relatively unimpaired (See the section above covering delusional types for more detail).

The following diagnostic criteria must be met before a diagnosis of Delusional Disorder is warranted, according to the DSM-IV-TR:

A) Non bizarre delusions (i.e., involving situations that occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, infected, loved at a distance, or deceived by spouse or lover, or having a disease) of at least 1 month's duration.

B) Criterion A for Schizophrenia has never been met.

C) Apart from the impact of the delusion(s) or its ramifications, functioning is not markedly impaired and behavior is not obviously odd or bizarre

D) If mood episodes have occurred concurrently with delusions, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the delusional periods

E) The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=8822&cn=7

REPLY> I will only remark that the pathologies
you list above often are at the root of cult activity.
If the flying saucer or the Unicorn fail to show up
it seldom deters reorganisation of cults and the
participants are right back at it again quickly, powered by the underlying pathologies described.

Early in my academic life Istudied this at some length. For a physicist it was interesting, to say the
least. The tug and pull between the subjective and
the rational is eternal! The important point is: the
underlying condition must exist prior to the social
actualisation or social witness of the condition. Usually due to early life experience.

This may have nothing to do with this case, or it may.

Subjective self reinforcement even in the face of
lack of support in the community at large, can be a
powerful determiner of action. It can motivate people
to do all kinds of things, for good or evil. Performance can be tied to motivation.

[airtwardo 6]

Ms AGGIE:

Only someone with some real 'stones' can call a 260 pound Texas Cop..."Ms."

Maybe JO is Cooper!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 197]

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Ms AGGIE:

Only someone with some real 'stones' can call a 260 pound Texas Cop..."Ms."

REPLY: Shawn Johnson could!

[Orange1 0]

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In a fall or in stiff wind these raincoats compress against the body.
(like standing at the front of a ship in a trench coat).
The coat could serve as an excellent windbreak.

ok... now put yourself at the prow of the boat. boat is going 120mph (or more - exit speed). somehow get yourself so that your legs are facing the 120mph+ wind (with no 'help' subduing the coat by lying down). Is the coat still compressed against your body acting as windbreak?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Quote

Ms AGGIE:

Only someone with some real 'stones' can call a 260 pound Texas Cop..."Ms."

Maybe JO is Cooper!

If someone is going to make a medical and psycological opininions of me regarding my posts and my search - that person needs to display their credentials or cease posting in that manner. I believe it is "criminal" to pose as a Dr. of anything.

All I am doing is trying to find that one simple something that is being missed that will end all of this and that is ALL that my post reflect.


This afternoon sitting on my front porch I threw a stone at a big dog taking a dump (Cow Pile) in my front yard. I had been hoping to catch the culprit and after 4 month there he was staring at me with his bulldog face.

I was on the phone with my daughter - she thought I threw the phone at the dog. She kept hearing sounds like the phone was being chewed on by the dog. She was saying "Git, Git", but what had really happened?

This morning I broke my toe and when I got up to chase the dog away I dropped the phone and it fell to pieces in the driveway.



Just a day in the life of a Crazy woman. Breaking toes and chasing dogs. By the way Cooper is very seldom mentioned until I get on the computer in the evening or if some new tidbit surfaces that needs to be checked out.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[AggieDave 6]

Never said I was a doctor, just that this is something I come in contact with daily in my professional life. Its also something I've had training in due to the high number of daily contacts.

As for my creds, tell you what, you post one shred of evidence. Just one that proves Weber was Cooper and I'll post my creds. Not more of the "well, he stole a coat from a restaurant once and I think he might have maybe one time mentioned driving by an airport that possibly had a plane there" crap. Something real.

I'm pretty confident I'll never have to show you anything.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Yeah, that made me laugh. I was trying to figure out how I could have come across so effimently that Jo thought I was a Ms. Then I got mad. REAL mad. I'm married damnit, that's Mrs Aggie!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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In a fall or in stiff wind these raincoats compress against the body. (like standing at the front of a ship in a trench coat). The coat could serve as an excellent windbreak.

georger,

As irritated as I get with Orange1’s constant harassment of Jo, I find myself coming to his defense (as a member of the sky ape/bird turd skydiving community… him, not me).

On this forum (thread) we have very few individuals who produce bona fides. Ckret is an experienced LE professional, and is one of the exceptions. Most posters don’t reveal any “areas of expertise” where they are considered “experts.” However, each of the sky ape/bird turd skydivers has their bona fides right in the left-hand margin (if you have your screen set up like mine).

Orange1, airtwardo, and AggieDave have at least 5988 jumps between them (I have no idea how many sangrio has, but I’ll bet it is a few). That makes them “experts in the field.”

Sluggo_Monster, snowmman, and georger have…… ummm let me see… carry the zero… subtract the j-operator… find the cube-root…. Oh yeah… ZERO jumps between them.

So to my way of thinking, when more than one “expert in the field” tells me that something is true… I believe them. I don’t feel like I have to “see it”, although, it would be nice if I could.

The reason that this thread is on this forum, on this web site, is because of the skydiving expertise. I understand why they get irritated at the whuffos. I wouldn’t be surprised if they removed access for all of us one day.

You have a unique way of investigating NORJAK and have made many positive contributions, please keep doing that. But, please… please… PLEASE… try not to irritate the sky ape/birds turds skydivers, by challenging their opinions in the areas of their expertise.

Just a little advice/request from Ckret’s creepy uncle Sluggo,

Sluggo_Monster

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[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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Yeah, that made me laugh. I was trying to figure out how I could have come across so effimently that Jo thought I was a Ms. Then I got mad. REAL mad. I'm married damnit, that's Mrs Aggie!

AggieDave

I don’t want to (try to) speak for Jo, but I think I know why she originally thought you were female.

If fact, the first time I saw your post, I thought the same, then I decided you were both male and female (two people, not a hermaphrodite).

Let me explain it like this:
“Aggie” looks a lot like “Angie.” So, at first glance my mind said this is Angie-something. Then on closer inspection it looked like “AngieDave,” so now I’m thinking of this nice skydiving couple who share an account (as many do, especially “Premium" or "Subscription” accounts). It was only after looking at your profile (or maybe I saw a post that mentioned Texas) that I realized you must be a Texas A&M alumni or fan. All of us aren’t into collegiate sports, or are familiar with the College and University mascots.

So screen names that start with Tide, Pirate, Dawg, Jacket, Volunteer, Razorback, War Eagle, Eagle, Gator, or Seminole do not necessarily immediately “hook-up in our brain.” Especially, if it isn’t apparent where you are located.

Make sense?

Oh, BTW, Jo has a pretty keen “sense of humor” that you guys don’t let come through. When you got “mad, real mad,” you became “Ms” forever (or at least as long as you are adversarial toward her). [That's IMHO]

Sluggo_Monster

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[georger 197]

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In a fall or in stiff wind these raincoats compress against the body.
(like standing at the front of a ship in a trench coat).
The coat could serve as an excellent windbreak.

ok... now put yourself at the prow of the boat. boat is going 120mph (or more - exit speed). somehow get yourself so that your legs are facing the 120mph+ wind (with no 'help' subduing the coat by lying down). Is the coat still compressed against your body acting as windbreak?

REPLY> I see the point. The forces are not comparable (boat vs drop). And if the coat opens
up, its potentially even worse. The fact of a trench
coat is not exactly conducive to slip streaming, but
a lot depends on how he falls, how he handles this
drop, how quickly he opens the chute, etc. Which takes us back to whether he was a novice or
experienced. Keep in mind Cossey said this was a double motion (pull) chute which makes even more
problematic. If he was no more competent pulling
a chute than he was getting the chairs down, then
he's right on the edge of trouble or worse.

Let me also say this which has nothing to do with
whether he survived or not but speaks to the public
glamor over Cooper. I think from the public's point
of view everyone instantly recognised that Cooper parachuting was inherently dangerous. Then he was
never found which opens to the door to "he may have survived" when most people wouldn't. This
alone elevates Cooper into hero status, someone
special potentially, an atheletic hero. The Olympian
of the hijack trade! And facts be damned. Its much
easier to believe a myth when facts are not at hand
and part of the story.

What intrigues the heck out of me is that he would
do this at all which puts Cooper somewhere between
total ignorance or somebody with experience. The
man was either suicidal or there was something about this that in his mind made it a viable option.
I just dont see this guy as wreckless - he did too
many things right and used good instincts to
accomplish what he did. For me its one of the missing links.