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quade

DB Cooper

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Snowmman,

The problem is the witnesses saw the bag attached around his waist. So I don't think your chest theory would work out.



Good point. In terms of the witness description, I suspect the "around" part is not the most reliable description.

I can imagine they saw the bag at waist level, as opposed to chest level.

I'm not sure you could eyeball a bag at the waist and know if it was tied around someone, or just to the rig in front? How could you tell? see rope going around to the back? It's probably loose, so it's not a matter of guessing based on how tight it looks or loose it looks.
Maybe people could chime in with thoughts.

I'm kinda thinking if you see a bag at someone's waist, you say it's tied around his waist, where you know that or not. (like if you saw it a neck level, you'd say it's tied around his neck..assuming)

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happythoughts,

You may have to change your name, "think positive dude, like count backwards or something." (what movie?).

Its one thing for me to read through the case file and develop an opinion about what happened the night Cooper jumped. I then can express my opinion, "Cooper bounced....." and we have several hundred posts about how stupid that opinion may or may not be. What it does is challenge me to rethink and develop something more than an opinion. Something that becomes a sound investigative foundation that can be backed, if not by evidence, solid fact.

Your right, the small bits and pieces we have been able to eek out won't do much in solving the case, yet. But soon a piece may shake out that fits but only because we have vetted out these small pieces.

Cooper jumped with a chute that had obviously been modified for one individual, it's owner. One more thing that just hit me, Cooper was given an instruction sheet on the chutes, wonder if it was Cossey trying to tell Cooper, "there's something you should know about one of these chutes...."

Regardless, all the pieces matter and only by running them into the ground (as painful as it is) can we be sure we are getting it right.

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Snowster,

You got to read all the post. What would he have tied the bag to himself with? He used one of the cords he cut to tie the neck of the bag. The other to wrap it and make the loop. Your out of cord mister, now drop down and give me 20.

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Jo,
Just a thought: You've spent years compiling your knowledge and data, yet have been unable to deliver concrete, tangible evidence defending your conclusion. Now it's the guys on this forum's turn to do their own style of gathering. They're attempting to put together something that they hope will yield evidence they can put their own hands on as well. Let's give them leave to do so.

Deal?
ltdiver



Guys,
Ckret is FBI and when he is working or on his own time he represents the FBI and should act accordingly.

He should not make quesses about a case to the public and if he does make a quess or propose a theory he should first state what the case file says and identify that as such and then state his theory and identify that as such.

He apologized for posting Duane's record on the forum as the information had never been given to me. That night I wanted to truely wanted to die.

I had been unable to inform my family members before this was exposed - this was NOT right.

I expect him to be very careful about posting because he is a FBI agent and should at all times behave like one - on the job and off the job when it comes to the information available.

The mistakes he made cause me to wonder how qualified our federal agencies are. He has taken the corrections in a good manner, but some should never have been made and are very elementary... Such as the position of Bill the co-pilot.

I do not care that the forum is reworking the fight path. I also realize that the technology of today makes it feasible to do this, but when in question about certain things on these reports the information should be verified if at all possible.

The added minute that is in doubt - turn or no turn - Radazcek would know the answer to that one. I have suggested that someone in the forum contact him - Ckret should be that person and tell him he is calling on a personal basis and what he is doing. Ask for help from those who are still able to help.

I do not believe the co-pilot who is retired uses a computer, but I am sure he would be willing to help if he knew what was going on and help get the information correct.

Take the points that are the most important that seem to give variance to the fight path and ask him to sit down in person with someone who has the knowledge (such as Sluggo) and clean up the information we have had made accessible to us by the FBI.

Ckret is not the one to sit down with him - as he is not knowledgable of the that material any more than I am.

Get the ducks in a row with correct information because our ducks are dying off real fast. Otherwise this can be debated till the end of time.

So much progress has been made by the forum recently and having first hand information may bring this case to a close. Pin pointing the drop is of utmost.

I am all for this analysis. One minute is imperative - turn or no turn. The time they thought Cooper jumped - think about this guys with the correct imformation from the co-pilot and what is being done on the forum - I see an end to this case coming. Do it so NO one can tear it apart and that has to be done with 1st hand knowledge and todays technology.

The one and two minute thing you guys are playing with can be given 1st hand now - but a yr from now that might not be available...from the only man living who can answer the question. Please do not send Ckret - send one of our very good techies - I believe there are three of them..I do not know who is the most qualified.

I will put in $100. to help with the expense. How many of you are willling to help send one of these guys to talk to Bill the co-pilot. I am sure Ckret could set the meeting up. I am not sure the engineer is still alive.

.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo,
apart from the fact that you are completely contradictory in your response to ltdiver (you veer between saying ckret ought to set things up and that he isn't 'qualified') -- your responses are very self serving. Casting doubt on the ability of an agent with almost 20 years' experience just because he doesn't tell you what you want to hear is pretty transparent (and believe me I am not the only one to think so. not all opinions about this thread are expressed in public posts). I'm pretty sure if ckret had been able to, for example, match a print to Duane you would have been going on about how brilliant he is.

The past week or so has seen some really good posts here, I really believe you should do what ltdiver asked and let people pursue those avenues. And maybe, just maybe, when you do feel the need to interject you can do it without getting nasty about it (i for one have sometimes been surprised that you haven't been banned for PAs on occasion) - any case should be able to stand or fall on the merits of its own evidence/logic/facts without resorting to personal swipes at the people involved. Most of the counter-arguments against your theory have been based purely on inconsistencies and unexplained things, etc in your arguments and as for the one or two I've seen that seem to be a bit more personal, well it's harder to criticize those people when you do the same thing. Get it? (I'm sure the answer is no, [:/]but I thought I'd try anyway.....)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Jo,

You have to play fair here. How can you post all sorts of stuff about Duane's criminal history and then slam Ckret really hard for posting a few more facts about Duane that you were not aware of?

I am not denying that it hurt you emotionally, but attacking Ckret's discretion and professionalism is out of line. If you are going to put Duane up as Cooper on this forum, then you have to thicken your skin a bit. Everything about Duane's history becomes fair game. We shouldn't have to pre-clear any posts with you for fear of hurting your feelings or those of your family members. What Ckret posted about Duane was simply a FACT, not a slur or innuendo.

I think you are sincere in your beliefs and welcome a continued dialog with you. You are right about the importance of flight crew interviews and about many other things too. There are a lot of strange links between Duane and the Cooper caper, but unless I missed something, none are supported by immutable physical evidence. They are all based on people's recollections. I disagree with your very firm belief that Duane was Cooper, but I haven't positively ruled him out. As Orange and many others have said, show us some hard evidence linking Duane to Cooper and you can change our minds in a minute.

You can be wrong on this forum and it's no big deal. I've been wrong and even slammed, but I just roll with it. Being righteously indignant and taking personal offense as a result of someone posting FACTS is inappropriate. We play rough in this literary playground. That's going to be true any place skydivers hang out.

I think you owe Ckret an apology, not vice versa, but that's just my opinion.

Peace,
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo,

It's NOT Ckrets fault you hooked up with a criminal.
It's not his fault you are in a position to BE embarrased by Duanes checkered past.

The Feds do not owe you anything as far as checking with you first before releasing FACTS and/or opinions to the public. Yet he apologised anyways!

Your attempts at character assination of those who may be in a position to discredit your story also do not gain any traction with me.

You are in no position to demand anything from anyone. When an error has been pointed out Ckret has usually owned it and clarification was offered.
Few here will blame him for ignoring unreasonable demands. (ex: prove a negative)
You imply that it is intentional and/or malicious.

You have also implied that you have or would interfere with those seeking interviews that might implicate a different suspect. Your stated reason was that you do not 'trust' their motives.
I think you are obstructing the persuit of the truth if what you claim to have done is true.

Once again I ask you (as others have repeatedly done) for one FACT or verifiable piece of evidence that puts DW on that aircraft!


PULL!
jumpin_Jan
"Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

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I've been reading some old news articles. I'm not a jumper but I can tell expertise when I see it.

Can see how Cossey was a hell of a dude. Probably still is. I can imagine FBI wasted a lot of time on him because they couldn't tell the difference between a good guy and a bad guy.

I remember Ckret posted way back the chain of people that called each other before Cossey got called for chutes. Totally random connections. Must have been weird for Cossey all these years to have been thrown into this mess thru no fault of his own...just trying to help out that night. Sounds like he's learned to have his own fun with it though. Good for him!

If he did put an instruction sheet in, that sure speaks to his character I think. A rigger isn't going to let someone die accidently, I would think.

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kret is FBI and when he is working or on his own time he represents the FBI and should act accordingly.



And he's doing one hell of a job!

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He should not make quesses about a case to the public



Sure he should. Since there's no known suspect that is going to be brought to trial at this time, Ckret's approach makes perfect sense.

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He apologized for posting Duane's record on the forum as the information had never been given to me. That night I wanted to truely wanted to die.



Thats nice of him to apologize, but he was under no obligation to give you that information.

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I do not care that the forum is reworking the fight path... Pin pointing the drop is of utmost.



You realize that one goes with the other.

The only reason why this case has been brought any sort of attention in the past 20 years is due to Ckret and you take the opportunity to accuse him at every turn. You take the opportunity to slander him at every turn. You are not happy with someone else's work, when all you do is make up wild stories about a man who was a habitual lier and a thief and told you one more lie before he died. I'm sorry you were suckered into his lies. I'm sorry you're wasting your life away with something that is so outlandish and untrue. I hope you can figure out how to move on, but please in the mean time, leave our FBI agent alone. He's doing work above and beyond his job for a case that is a very low priority in regards to the rest of his case load.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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...
I think I will just say farewell to you.
...



Our resident agent wrote the above at 11:11 on Friday the 13th.

OMG, What does THAT mean??!!


Relax, Guru, that was addressed to Jo. (Anyway, only if it had been written at 13:13 would you be allowed to get worried.)

I like the way AggieDave put it - he is "our" FBI agent. :ph34r: We're not gonna let him go that easily :)
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Jo,

I have typed out several responses and deleted them all, I think I will just say farewell to you.

Best of luck in your search, i hope you find peace somehow.

Larry




Good call CKRET. If youve got a pile of junk over your head......cutaway.


bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

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...
I think I will just say farewell to you.
...



Our resident agent wrote the above at 11:11 on Friday the 13th.

OMG, What does THAT mean??!!


You know damn good and well what it means...otherwise you wouldn't have noticed the time and then mentioned it.

Although I'm not of a trusting nature, I suspect that may indicate that Larry is really one of the good guys after all. :)
359
"Now I've settled down,
in a quiet little town,
and forgot about everything"

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You know damn good and well what it means...otherwise you wouldn't have noticed the time and then mentioned it.
...
359



Actually, I don't *really* think it means anything. But some people actually do. See this:
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Numerologists believe that events linked to the time 11:11 appear more often than chance or coincidence. [1] This belief is related to the concept of synchronicity. [2] Other authors believe it is an auspicious sign, [3] and others that it signals a spirit presence. [4] [5]

Although not an originator of the concept, Uri Geller has spoken repeatedly about 11:11, [6] and the belief that it has mystical powers has also been adopted by many believers in New Age philosophies. [7] However, some skeptics say that Geller's examples of 11:11 phenomenon in world events are examples of post-hoc reasoning [8] and confirmation bias. [9]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11:11_%28numerology%29

Given all of the conspiracy theory around here, I thought Ckret's date and time of posting to Jo was very conspiratorial. Just like everything else.

Like, why did you put *your* suspect number at the end of *your* post?

It's all connected to this: "Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."

Right?
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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In true Cooper fashion, when Tina tried to give him the instruction sheet he said, "I don't need those."



That would be a pretty strange response from someone who had never jumped surely? Is that one of the reasons that the FBI originally thought they were looking for an experienced jumper?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Much to my own amazement, I think I found DB Cooper and maybe what he did with the money.

He actually had the balls to name a road and a company after himself. Did he live to start an electrical supply company...and name it after himself?!

Maybe so...he uses his own picture on their boxes!!!

My friend, Brenda, would call it real chutzpah.

See for yourself: http://berniesayers.com/Electric%20DB.htm
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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Much to my own amazement, I think I found DB Cooper and maybe what he did with the money.

He actually had the balls to name a road and a company after himself. Did he live to start an electrical supply company...and name it after himself?!

Maybe so...he uses his own picture on their boxes!!!

My friend, Brenda, would call it real chutzpah.

See for yourself: http://berniesayers.com/Electric%20DB.htm




A short story about the Cooper Logo:

I did some Desktop Publishing, Training, and Performance Improvement consulting for the Lufkin Division of Cooper Tools in Apex, NC back in 1990 and 1991.

That’s when Cooper decided they wanted all divisions to use the same logo. They sent out a “Request for Proposal” for the design of the Cooper Logo. I submitted a proposal, but didn’t get the contract. I don’t remember the name of the company who got it, but it was the same company that designed the logo for the “Touchstone Movies” division of Walt Disney.

So when I saw this post I saw red. Not just that ridiculous red splash at the top, but knowing that they paid something like $300,000 for the word Cooper (in Cooper Bold font, no less) and a little red splash.

Sluggo

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

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...
(in Cooper Bold font, no less)
Sluggo



I'm kidding, but he isn't. There actually is a font style known as "Cooper Bold".

If I'm not mistaken, DB created that font shortly after buying himself new shoes to replace the ones he lost during the jump.
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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happythoughts,

You may have to change your name, "think positive dude, like count backwards or something." (what movie?).



Don't think of it as negativity, it is more of redirection.

Something, that I see repeatedly stated to Jo, is to quit stating theories or hearsay, and start presenting supported facts. Even if we figured out where he jumped, it gains us little, so I wanted to discuss things with more end value.

You mentioned that you had an evidence box(es). I wondered what the contents were. Solid things.

You mentioned an instruction sheet from Cossey.
First time I had heard of it. An interesting tidbit.
We have debated whether he was a jumper for months.
To refuse the instructions seems telling.

I would imagine that there are miles of printed records.
Not interested. I am just referring to physical objects in the box(es).
How about the top 20 cool things?
Are there things that you can release that would not be "too much information to the public" ?

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There in lies the problem, there really isn't anything in the box that is going to add to the story. All of it's contents have been explored.

And just to clarify, i was joking with you about your name, you are more than welcome to be as negative or positive as you want.

Also, there is a big difference in exploring what occurred on 11/24/1971 as opposed to me announcing to the world i have solved the case. then when asked what evidence I was able to find that can prove my solution I tell you, "none, i just know it."

Since no one wanted to play, the movie quote came from "Platoon."

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I want to make sure everyone understands that the instruction sheet offered to Cooper may or may not have come from Cossey.

I think it was a bit odd to offer instructions to Cooper when he made no request for them. And from what we now know the NB6 was altered to the point that even an experienced skydiver may have had difficulty with it. From this, I think that maybe Cossey knew this and wanted to warn anyone who my try to use it.

Total guess on my part, but the two backpacks came from Cossey, from Cossey's house. i don't think he had a manufactures instruction sheet laying around that he sent with them.

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