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DB Cooper

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(edited)

Olemisscub: Thank you for the photoshop! :) It is very much appreciated and really helps visualize some of the differences between the two composites.  You're right, he does look older and meaner in composite A with the composite B nose, and it helps to highlight that the cheekbones aren't quite so pronounced in composite A as they are in composite B.  The underbite is also far more prominent in composite A than in composite B.

What's interesting too, is comparing both composites to the later drawing that Florence helped Unsolved Mysteries produce.  Allowing for artistic differences, the Unsolved Mysteries sketch keeps the droopy eyelids from composite A as well as adding the prominent cheekbones from composite B.  It looks like it has the composite B nose, too, although the slightly receding hairline in the composites has morphed into the Lenny & Squiggy one seen in the Unsolved Mysteries sketch somehow.

Overall, I think composite B probably is the most accurate one, even if it was produced over a year after the fact.  All the witnesses were happy with that one, right?

 

Edited by SeventyWonderful

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56 minutes ago, c99acer said:

It's amazing Florence would trump Tina on the sketch matter regardless of her looking directly at him, or not. I estimate Tina had almost 15 times the conatct time with the hijacker (Florence 20 mins? / Tina 290 mins?).

I still question why the Initial Sketch wouldn't be circulated like every version after.

Very, very gently do I think that by claiming she didn't get a good look at Cooper, what Tina is really saying is that she doesn't want to deal with it any more.  From what I'm remembering she also readily went along with whatever the FBI agent interviewing her said at any given time.  I would imagine that's probably not too uncommon a reaction for crime victims to have, and the FBI would compensate by relying on the input from other witnesses.

Edited by SeventyWonderful
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15 hours ago, SeventyWonderful said:

Very, very gently do I think that by claiming she didn't get a good look at Cooper, what Tina is really saying is that she doesn't want to deal with it any more.  From what I'm remembering she also readily went along with whatever the FBI agent interviewing her said at any given time.  I would imagine that's probably not too uncommon a reaction for crime victims to have, and the FBI would compensate by relying on the input from other witnesses.

I think you have nailed it. She never wanted to deal with it! I wonder what her IQ is/was ? She doesnt strike me as being too intelligent ? Definitely an emotional person. A liability in any crisis ?

Edited by georger

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2 hours ago, georger said:

I think you have nailed it. She never wanted to deal with it! I wonder what her IQ is/was ? She doesnt strike me as being too intelligent ? Definitely an emotional person. A liability in any crisis ?

I think this is a highly unfair attack on Tina. Wondering what her IQ is? That giant book that she has in her hands leaving the plane that night wasn't a bible, it was a big ass biography of Mary, Queen of Scots. I don't think Tina was stupid. I do think she's a bit quirky, but I've never questioned her intelligence. And are we really suggesting that Tina was a liability in a crisis??? I'd say she was the complete opposite of a liability that night. 

I take her at her word that she never got a really good look at him. She was sitting next to him during much of her time near him and she was probably facing forward for the most part. She said that whenever he spoke to her he was whispering in her ear. It's not like they were sitting across the table from each other. Plus, she did the wise thing and avoided looking at him. She didn't want to provoke him in any way. If you're being mugged the worst thing you can do is stare down the perp. Also, the lights were off in the cabin during much of their later interactions. 

Flo, on the other hand, stared right at Cooper on multiple occasions. She looked him in his eyes. By my count they had as many as six separate interactions with each other before he even put his shades on. 

 

 

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Edited by olemisscub
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5 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I think this is a highly unfair attack on Tina. Wondering what her IQ is? That giant book that she has in her hands leaving the plane that night wasn't a bible, it was a big ass biography of Mary, Queen of Scots. I don't think Tina was stupid. I do think she's a bit quirky, but I've never questioned her intelligence. And are we really suggesting that Tina was a liability in a crisis??? I'd say she was the complete opposite of a liability that night. 

I take her at her word that she never got a really good look at him. She was sitting next to him during much of her time near him and she was probably facing forward for the most part. She said that whenever he spoke to her he was whispering in her ear. It's not like they were sitting across the table from each other. Plus, she did the wise thing and avoided looking at him. She didn't want to provoke him in any way. If you're being mugged the worst thing you can do is stare down the perp. Also, the lights were off in the cabin during much of their later interactions. 

Flo, on the other hand, stared right at Cooper on multiple occasions. She looked him in his eyes. By my count they had as many as six separate interactions with each other before he even put his shades on. 

 

 

-891e2ad6a0b2dea5.jpg

My comments were about Flo, not Tina ? Im confused... by all accounts Tina was bright, alert, a good student, socially intelligent, etc etc. all in stark contrast to Florence ? 

Edited by georger

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I think Tina rose to the occasion beautifully.  First and foremost, she did a wonderful job of making sure nobody got hurt.  She managed to keep Cooper calm and the passengers as far away from him as possible while relaying messages, instructions, parachutes, and money.  She went over and above and beyond keeping the situation under control when it really could have ended very badly.

And while nobody was hurt, this was not a victimless crime.  People have different ways of dealing with traumatic situations, and having to contend with a traumatic situation afterwards as part of the investigation can be painful. Tina's saying that she didn't get a good look at Cooper when the FBI repeatedly kept showing her photographs to identify, or composites to approve, would perhaps be a signal that this was a situation she was eager to move past.  That was the point I was trying to make.

Edited by SeventyWonderful
edited for clarity

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Back to Reca, I'm sure it's been said but it's obvious that Reca and Cooper had really different hair types.  Reca has a head full of thick, straight hair. Cooper is described as having wavy hair with a slightly receding hairline.  Passenger Robert Gregory goes so far as to compare his hair to Nixon's.  It's possible that Cooper cut his hair short and slicked it back with brylcreem or something for the hijacking, which would make him look different in real life, but that's not going to make his hair thick and straight off the plane.

Look at Ed Sullivan and Dave Brubeck in the clip below.  Both have wavy hair with hairlines that recede more than Cooper's does in the composites, but still. Sullivan's hair is shorter and thinner with more brylcreem, and if his hair were thicker and longer it would look something like Brubeck's. Compare their hair to a picture of Reca and you'll see what I mean.  

https://youtu.be/f8ivFtfqnM8

 

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(edited)

Reca's an object lesson in the dangers of "sunk-cost." That guy certainly deserved to be considered, but that consideration should have ended with a swift and easy rejection of him as an actual possibility. He should have gotten to live out the rest of his life without that nonsense following him around. Just as VP should have been rejected out of nine-finger hand before his name was ever put forth. At a certain point the opportunism becomes cynicism and even cruelty. 

Edited by Math of Insects
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15 hours ago, georger said:

My comments were about Flo, not Tina ? Im confused... by all accounts Tina was bright, alert, a good student, socially intelligent, etc etc. all in stark contrast to Florence ? 

You were responding to a comment about Tina, thus my confusion. 

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4 hours ago, Math of Insects said:

Reca's an object lesson in the dangers of "sunk-cost." That guy certainly deserved to be considered, but that consideration should have ended with a swift and easy rejection of him as an actual possibility. He should have gotten to live out the rest of his life without that nonsense following him around. 

Well, Reca WANTED that following him around. He was full of shit and a liar his entire life, self aggrandizing his boring life with lies about being a super secret agent, a CIA assassin, a mafia hitman, a special forces commando, oh, and also D.B. Cooper. Rackstraw is the one who got hounded until his death by Colbert. 

But about Reca, if he had ANY resemblance to ANY of the descriptions and hadn't "confessed", he'd actually be a good suspect simply due to his background. Despite his lies, he legitimately was a very good skydiver and had a felony record for robbery. He'd make sense as Cooper if he actually had a thin face, had a darker complexion, and didn't have a gorilla nose. 

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52 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Well, Reca WANTED that following him around. He was full of shit and a liar his entire life, self aggrandizing his boring life with lies about being a super secret agent, a CIA assassin, a mafia hitman, a special forces commando, oh, and also D.B. Cooper. Rackstraw is the one who got hounded until his death by Colbert. 

But about Reca, if he had ANY resemblance to ANY of the descriptions and hadn't "confessed", he'd actually be a good suspect simply due to his background. Despite his lies, he legitimately was a very good skydiver and had a felony record for robbery. He'd make sense as Cooper if he actually had a thin face, had a darker complexion, and didn't have a gorilla nose. 

According to the three books I have read on Reca, he DIDN'T want this following him around. His best friend took years to coax even parts of the story out of him. Isn't the ability to withhold information a requirement for the first list of jobs - those things you say he didn't do?

I am puzzled how your first paragraph seems to contradict your second? Wouldn't that background and robbery training make him a good candidate for the occupations you list? 

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23 minutes ago, c99acer said:

According to the three books I have read on Reca, he DIDN'T want this following him around. His best friend took years to coax even parts of the story out of him. Isn't the ability to withhold information a requirement for the first list of jobs - those things you say he didn't do?

I am puzzled how your first paragraph seems to contradict your second? Wouldn't that background and robbery training make him a good candidate for the occupations you list? 

This is real life, not an Expendables script. CIA doesn't use goons like Reca. 

Reca's "special agent" credentials are forgeries, and dumb forgeries to boot. You think an actual double agent working for the KGB is going to use their REAL NAME? Reca wasn't even clever enough to use an alias for his phony KGB card. 

 

recakgbandlaurin2.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Slim King said:

You have no idea what the card was used for do you? If so please tell us. 

It was used to make his friends think he was cooler than he really was. “Lemme show you something, but you can’t tell anyone….”

You must not know any of these types of individuals. If you did you’d know that Reca fits a specific personality type. You just have to throw “stolen value” into YouTube and you’ll see scores of Walter Reca. This entire Reca as Cooper thing is a fraud. Reca was a bullshitter. He was a stolen valor meathead. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Slim King said:

Aside from name calling, what facts do you have?

this honestly isn't worth the energy anymore. You're right. Cooper was a man with a square head, blue eyes, giant bulbous nose, who jumped 150 miles away from where the people actually on the plane said they were, and he originally intended to jump out of the side door despite the fact that we have transcripts and original audio in existence of everyone discussing Cooper's desire to jump from the rear of the plane. 

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8 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Well, Reca WANTED that following him around. He was full of shit and a liar his entire life, self aggrandizing his boring life with lies about being a super secret agent, a CIA assassin, a mafia hitman, a special forces commando, oh, and also D.B. Cooper. Rackstraw is the one who got hounded until his death by Colbert. 

But about Reca, if he had ANY resemblance to ANY of the descriptions and hadn't "confessed", he'd actually be a good suspect simply due to his background. Despite his lies, he legitimately was a very good skydiver and had a felony record for robbery. He'd make sense as Cooper if he actually had a thin face, had a darker complexion, and didn't have a gorilla nose. 

Right—brain fart!

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11 hours ago, Slim King said:

I'm pretty sure that his handler told him about the rear stairs and to use the name Dan Cooper. His eyes were not blue either. The FBI has lied to the public thousands of times before. To lie about this and force others to lie to cover their tracks is nothing new. That's why TINA, a very honest person, felt so much guilt that she joined a Nunnary.

 

992060394_ScreenShot2022-11-28at1_34_32AM.jpg

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13 hours ago, Slim King said:

That's why TINA, a very honest person, felt so much guilt that she joined a Nunnary.

The Cooper hijacking is NOT why she went to the Nunnery. Good grief. There's more to her life than just a five hour stretch in November 1971. 

I really am curious about your thought process here. You think the FBI gathered up all the eyewitnesses immediately after the hijacking (mere moments after they got off the plane) and were like "look, we realize that there have been 150 hijackings in the past 4 years in American skies, but THIS one is special. It's so super special in fact that we need all of you to lie. You're all telling us that he had a square head and a wide flat bulbous nose, but we need you to tell the media who are waiting out those doors that he was a tall swarthy man with jet black hair and a narrow face. Then whenever we come back to you in the next few years to show you pics of suspects, we need you to maintain this lie for us. OK, you all have your story straight? Forgot about the blockheaded man with the huge nose....this guy was swarthy and narrow faced with a small to normal looking nose. Got it?"

Wouldn't it be less of a headache to either 1) not have a suspect, or 2) have a suspect who actually matches the descriptions and who doesn't require you to believe that literally EVERYTHING about the case is incorrect and that all 75,000 FBI documents about the case are false because...reasons. 

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(edited)
14 hours ago, Slim King said:

I'm pretty sure that his handler told him about the rear stairs and to use the name Dan Cooper. His eyes were not blue either. The FBI has lied to the public thousands of times before. To lie about this and force others to lie to cover their tracks is nothing new. That's why TINA, a very honest person, felt so much guilt that she joined a Nunnary.

And the dish ran away with the spoon.

Hey! Diddle diddle ...

next verse, same as the first

 

Edited by georger
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The word is convent.  

In Catholicism, women religious live in convents.  

Different groups, or orders, of nuns have different callings.  

The order of Discalced Carmelites prefer to use the term monastery to emphasize their life of quiet contemplation.  They are cloistered away from the outside world.

On the other hand the Sisters of Mercy live a life of service through teaching and medical care.  They prefer to use the term sisters as they minister to the needs of the people in society and nuns are cloistered.  Both groups however live in convents.

More info here.

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11 hours ago, JAGdb said:

I believe this is a new tv special on the cooper hijacking, airing next Monday on the History Channel--wonder if anyone from the Vortex has been involved.

https://www.history.com/shows/historys-greatest-mysteries/season-4/episode-14

https://play.history.com/shows/historys-greatest-mysteries/season-4/episode-14

Several are involved. Two DZ posters are in it. That's not for me to say who they are though. But it has some good folks in it. 

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3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Several are involved. Two DZ posters are in it. That's not for me to say who they are though. But it has some good folks in it. 

This may be essentially a replay of the Cooper segment that appeared on this program a few years ago.

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42 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

This may be essentially a replay of the Cooper segment that appeared on this program a few years ago.

It's different. I was contacted by the producers for a phone interview a while back. I feel like they're going to be focusing on a bunch of different suspects in the episode. 

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