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7 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Also, you never answered who you are looking for to support your party. I thought you knew the public personally? 

You mean my proposal for a Cooper Party in 2020? I will give that until February 15, as I promised. If there is no real support for such an event, I will move on from the idea.  

 

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Just now, mrshutter45 said:

support from who? 

Whoever is interested in such a thing. I already said I would put up a comprehensive proposal just after the New Year. If there is strong and positive response to put on such an event, with the planning for it shared among several people, then I will make it happen. If there isn't, it's not like I will do it on my own. 

It's tough enough setting up the Cooper Campouts with just me, Greg, and Tom E from the Infamous Nissan site. Something much bigger would have to planned by committee, and the responsibilities shared among the participants. When you ask 'who,' I can't tell you that until I see if there is any real response to the proposal. It will be posted here, at the AB site, Quora, and elsewhere. I will give it six weeks. If there's nothing in the way of interest by Feb 15, I will schedule the next campout instead. 

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3 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

sounds like you should of posted it all over a while back when you first spoke of it. why only here. 

I only thought of it a short time back. I wouldn't worry. I'm actually starting to have second thoughts. If no one wanted to do the Big Combination Event in Portland with all those house-packing guests showing up, and settled for the EU event in Vancouver...there is no reason to believe they will change their minds for a similar thing in 2020. 

My patience wore kind of thin when no one stood up to EU and at least questioned his idea to ditch the original plan, and do another one where he charges people fifteen bucks a ticket. 

Maybe it will work for him. Who knows. 

I will be working on this in December and presenting a detailed proposal right after New Year's. Word will get out to Cooperland, I'm sure. But I'm making it a pretty narrow window for people to decide if they are in or out. If they are out, I go shopping at Amazon for some upgrades to the campout gear. 

Chances are maybe one in ten anyone will get serious anyway. They could surprise me, but I doubt it. 

Late Edit: The famous Kenny report is back online. No more mods will be made for the time being, no matter how many people whine about it. I used the same link address so as not to break other links in articles, etc. 

Let's face it...at least at AB of Seattle main, or our WordPress site...or even Quora Cooper for that matter...the public can actually see what is being posted. Some places I know you get shut out completely. You just get this:

Quote

'You are not allowed to view pictures or links. Register or login.'

Boring...I won't mention names, but if you're going to give someone at a site like that their own thread for uploading their podcasts...the public might not want to waste their time going there and seeing a message like that. :S

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Thank god you don't own places like Quora. you would shut it down every other week completely. if you are to lazy to join then you really don't want to know. could you imagine places like Facebook doing something like that. the number one social media site shutting the whole world out? the only person I've had whining about it has a book full of self admitted false information. no login required but he does charge you for the inaccurate information. (insert whiny voice) I have to pay this and pay that to fix it. he won't pay it but he will take it :) 

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(edited)

It is absolutely senseless to offer someone a 'free thread' to upload their videos or podcasts...and then disallow The Entire World from viewing or downloading those videos or podcasts.

It's like giving someone a fancy-wrapped Christmas present. With nothing in the box. 

You spent two pages doing criticism about something on one of my sites. I fixed it. 

This is not about me. But you're not doing your members any favors by offering that to them. No wonder we picked up another hundred followers this week at Quora. 

Look...it's just a suggestion that would increase traffic to your site. No skin off my nose, but there have been grumbles about it. Not from me, but a couple of your own members. They just won't tell you to your face. (Well, virtual face anyway) ;)

At the least, you could do it by thread, such as the Cooper Con 2019 and Darren's thread. What is the point of them posting up their announcements, links, or podcasts if no one can view the links to their stuff? It's absolutely pointless. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Robert, it's none of your business....I would be worried about all the false information flying around you have, that's what's damaging. you even sell bad information. I don't think you are in the position to tell people what is right or wrong...

You don't like it, tough...been telling you that for years. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

ook...it's just a suggestion that would increase traffic to your site. No skin off my nose, but there have been grumbles about it. Not from me, but a couple of your own members. They just won't tell you to your face. (Well, virtual face anyway)

lol people are scared to ask about the forum, okay...you keep saying it doesn't bother you and yet here we are talking about my forum and breaking the rules because you can't keep your nose out of peoples business. 

This thread will NEVER function with you on the board gossiping like an old lady with nothing better to do...

I also find it interesting all the "support" you get when you go camping and yet no pictures are shown. they email almost immediately after you announce it and yet we have crickets with  the party. where is your public?  should be a simple task with your following? we have been waiting years for that big show that blows all the other events away. better get going....

Edited by mrshutter45

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(edited)

Oh, come on...you came after me regarding a portion of our website for an entire day, and right into the night. 

This isn't about whether I can personally see this or that at your forum. LOL...I already KNOW where the Cooper Con and Vortex sites live. 

This is about playing fair with your own members. Have you ever ASKED EU or Darren if they would rather the public actually be able to SEE the links to the things they worked to create? 

Forget about me. I don't try to advertise any podcasts or events at the DBCF for the public to see, download, or possibly attend. So why would I care? You aren't being fair to THEM. You should at least make it possible for the public to see the links to upcoming Cooper events where they try to recruit people to show up...or download the podcasts. 

I listened to you about the FBI report, listened to your requests on that, and made some changes. Then I toss one positive suggestion at you and you go ballistic. As far as the Cooper Campouts, AB of Seattle has a firm policy. We do NOT publish pictures of the attendees, nor do we generally reveal their identities. Why? Because we know the nature of Cooperland, which has been discussed among some of the campers more than once. 

The one time we decided to go public was with the Oregon campout in June. I decided to make available the location of the meetup spot, the time and camping location, and we were prepared to do pictures and videos that included these same people for the whole weekend, starting with the meetup. I think we even put up some maps for people to the meetup spot in Estacada (Oregon). We invited the public to show up unannounced if they wished, after dropping some short advice on coming prepared, etc. 

And...we started seeing threats via your hero Bruce Smith's website within a day. Threats to show to the meetup location and cause trouble. Amazingly, Smith still leaves those things visible at his website. If you can believe that. 

In the end, Tom E., Greg, and I arranged to change the meetup location with everyone (who had already signed up) and any thoughts of making those events public in the future were permanently forgotten. I tell people this:  You want to know what goes on? You want to meet the nice folks who attend these things? The free BBQ even? Then sign up via the AB website contact box link and come along. We don't do it for advertising. We do it because it's fun. 

As far as organizing any 'big Cooper party,' as a sort of replacement to the Ariel Party for next year...it is doubtful anyone in Cooperland will be interested. I'm not holding my breath. I will keep my word and make my full proposal by January 5. Cooperland can kick it around until February 15. If I don't see STRONG and IMMEDIATE support by mid-Feb for a cooperatively-planned party where people set aside their differences for the common good, that offer of financial and organizational support will be withdrawn. After the fiasco that happened earlier this year, I no longer have patience for games. 

cooperate.jpg

Parrot says in part: 

Quote

'Daren has a link to his podcast under his topic at Shutters site and it works just fine. Try again...'

Only registered members who are signed in to the site can see those things. Try logging out and see what the public sees. It's no big deal to me personally. It's just poor policy if you are trying to get word out on this or that to the public. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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try following a policy?

The last time I checked everyone does work together. however, there is one who doesn't get to work with others so he lashes out constantly trying to blame the world for HIS mistakes. 

If you look at the list of people Eric has for the conference it tells you the grade performance is hardly what that ONE person states. it's FULL. if 10 people show or 200 you will see that Eric succeeded and wasn't all talk or begging anyone. no deadline required. the "other" person will say he doesn't need anyone in Cooperland" and then ask for help, complete with a deadline. that's why he isn't asking on other sites. just here....he will never change....sad.

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(edited)

Actually Dave...face reality. People in the general Cooperland group did a very poor job of 'working together' this year. You are misrepresenting things. EU accepted the hosting job for the Combination Event in Portland, an event that was planned for months, mostly by Jim Brunberg at Mississippi Studios and the V23 Brewery. He then took advantage of his position to ignore everyone involved, did not try to resolve issues as Jim asked him to do, and made the whole thing magically go away in favor of fifteen bucks a pop at the Kiggins Theater. 

You know that. I know that. The emails were sent in groups and you were one of the recipients. 

The only thing 'sad' here is that no one questioned EU on why he would do that. It's still a mystery to me and one reason is that EU was going to be the host anyway, and attendance (and attention) to him personally, as well as everyone now showing up to Kiggins to speak, would have been massive. Oregon Public TV was showing up. EU can't even afford a video camera setup to record his event. Several famous people were showing up, guaranteed to make it SRO all the way. Free food provided by AB of Seattle. My part was actually pretty small in this whole thing, mostly off stage stuff, with people like EU, Bruce, Brunberg and his short film, Mark M ('377') being the actual participants on stage. Speakers were to be paid, should there be a cover charge, which would have been a lot less than fifteen bucks anyway. 

Like I said, the real mystery is why EU would accept the job in the first place. We have his email on that too. Yes, he will do it, he says. Meh. Whatever...nothing to be done about that now. It's just too bad that people like Bruce, 377, and some of the other scheduled folks didn't confront Eric and ask, "WTF are you DOING?" Things might have turned out different. 
******

The reason for a February 15 deadline on my decision on whether to front up the money for a replacement to the Ariel Party next year is simple. Because I'm not wasting my time or money a second time if there is no interest. These things cannot be tossed together at the last minute. And I'm not planning to put on The Blevins Show for people. For an event as I described, you have to do it by committee. If there is no interest, then why bother. I figure that in a couple of weeks, everyone who is currently involved in EU's event will either be completely satisfied, or they will be disappointed and realize they were had. One or the other. 

I've also had some thoughts lately on the whole thing. Should it be indoors, or outdoors. Different scenarios come to mind. For example, we could do a revisit of the party we sponsored at the Ariel Store and try to work together better this time on that. There is always a built in audience there, but I haven't spoken to Bryan Woodruff ever since he accepted that $2,500 we helped raise for him...and then backstabbed us via Facebook the day after he got his hands on the money. He also kept a number of valuable items I transported down to Ariel for his money-raising auction, instead of offering them up for sale. He even kept the professional First Aid kit I accidentally left behind the bar LOL. I could forget all this, I suppose, if he wanted to get serious about another event. 

Or...should we go indoors and try to set up another event with Brunberg again? That's shaky because Brunberg didn't appreciate all the poison pen emails he was getting when he assigned EU to the hosting job. That door is probably closed. 

I think everyone should wait until after the EU event is complete before considering any proposal. What I have in mind is an event planned by...and organized by...the major participants in Cooperland, NOT by just one person. Input from all sides, as it were. 

To be frank about it, the only REALLY successful Cooper event since the first conference held by Geoff Gray was the Ariel event we helped sponsor. I got Travel Channel to show up. About two hundred people showed. We raised a fair amount of money. Everyone got fed, which was a plus. And THAT event had one really good thing going for it...it was planned by committee. One person could not have pulled that one off. 

I don't know. Let's wait until the end of November and then we will see. I may be beating my head against the wall. As far as going indoors instead, I can still get the news coverage, possibly the TV to show, and the same guests I had arranged for the proposed Combo event in Portland have said they will still support me if we try that again...but I am NOT sticking my neck out with these people a SECOND time for nothing. I will come up with the basic proposal a little sooner, to give people time to consider it. Instead of Jan 5, I will do it in early December. 

If there is no interest, then okay. I will move on. Everyone knows 2020 is my last year living in the Pacific Northwest. I am definitely leaving for All Points South no later than April 2021 and probably sooner than that. I plan to hold at least three Cooper Campouts next year...and MAYBE front up for something bigger. It depends on what people want, and they REALLY have to want it otherwise I move on to just planning a few campouts and then calling it a wrap on any further Cooper stuff. 

We will see what happens. 

EDIT:  Dave...the reason I haven't posted anything about all this to other websites is because there is nothing yet to post. I want to wait for the results of the EU event first. Maybe the participants will decide they want something a little bigger and better next year than just looking out there on a bunch of empty seats. If EU couldn't get good attendance last year...what makes you believe he will do it charging fifteen dollars a head? As you can see, I don't have all the answers. But if the EU event takes a tank at the Kiggins, maybe its time for the same people he asks to participate to actually do the planning for the NEXT Cooper event. These one man shows are seldom successful unless you are famous. EU is known to some people, but I wouldn't call him famous. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)
53 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Was kinda pleasant while it lasted.

Old habits die hard, I guess...

No worries. The Cooper case has been going for almost fifty years. Whether people want to accept the idea or not, there is now a community that surrounds it, sort of like Bigfoot. It has grown beyond just a few people going over the usual points in the case. (You know, how did the Tina Bar money arrive, where did Cooper jump, who actually DID it...the usual stuff.)

Within that community there are newsworthy stories. Mostly good, sometimes not as much. There is much jockeying for position among certain people to be King of Cooperland. But the point these people miss is that the public is not interested in nominating a King of Cooperland. They just want to have fun with the case sometimes, I think. 

This is proven by how easily we fill the slots on the Cooper Campouts, and why people will still attend conventions and discussions about Cooper in about the same numbers. 

But if you want to keep Cooper in the public eye, the community has to work together. Anyone can toss an event and have a few of the usual faces show up. That's easy. What is hard is to bring in the public in large numbers as well. Otherwise you might as well form a Cooper Club and just hold meetings occasionally. That isn't a bad idea by the way. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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I don't how many skydivers are still on this thread, but I'm looking for help: I would like to talk to any old-timers who were skydivers in the late 60s and early 70s who were jumping in Los Angeles. Specifically, anyone who was at the Elsinore Paracenter in the summer of 1971. 

Any referrals would be most welcome, PM me or contact me at marty.andrade at gmail 

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1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said:

I don't how many skydivers are still on this thread, but I'm looking for help: I would like to talk to any old-timers who were skydivers in the late 60s and early 70s who were jumping in Los Angeles. Specifically, anyone who was at the Elsinore Paracenter in the summer of 1971. 

Any referrals would be most welcome, PM me or contact me at marty.andrade at gmail 

Good idea. You may want to create your own thread about it here under Skydiving History and put Elsinore 1971 in the header. I'm not a skydiver but I know that place was a Really Big Deal in the time frame you mentioned. Better chance of getting responses, too.

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AGAIN, a reminder that posts which are not related directly to the case will be removed. This isn't a place to go back and forth about personal details about personal beef or disagreements. That kind of post offers nothing to readers of the thread. Keep the posts relevant.

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1 hour ago, Meso said:

AGAIN, a reminder that posts which are not related directly to the case will be removed. This isn't a place to go back and forth about personal details about personal beef or disagreements. That kind of post offers nothing to readers of the thread. Keep the posts relevant.

I hear you, Meso. It just wasn't a very nice thing to do to a nice guy like (unnamed). We will take this issue elsewhere and leave it be at DZ. 

On a more Cooper-related note, I received word today that the first draft of the shooting script on the first-ever dramatic feature film on the case...is being sent to me next week for approval and edit suggestions. 

One other person, the guy who accepted the job to assist on script accuracy as well, will be sent the same copy. He really was the best person for this assignment.

After almost three years since I signed the option agreement, I can hardly wait. This is my Christmas present for sure. Although there is not yet an official announcement, this secret is hard to keep and I know someone from the Hollywood Reporter is sniffing around. I just want to be released from the confidentiality agreement, and that can't happen until an official announcement is made. I hope it will be soon. This deserves a replay of the early video the movie producers made in order to sell the idea of the picture to potential cast and crew. Turn your speakers down a bit at the start, because it begins with a bang. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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3 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Robert, do you have any samples of KC's handwriting?

Yes. From letters he wrote home to Minnesota. Also his signature on a couple of things. Not that it matters, but also his thumbprint on a DD214 form, and *probably* some prints from a photo album where he was the only one to touch and install the pictures under the plastic sleeves. Also a DNA sample from his brother. Our hope is that *someday* the FBI will release the results of the partial DNA from the tie, as well as the prints they say *may* belong to Cooper. The production companies have said they would be more than willing to pay to have all these items professionally examined against the available evidence...if only the FBI would give up the stuff, as they say. Why they don't release these things to the public I haven't a clue. 

On another note, I am now off work officially for the next two weeks. Getting ready to fly to San Diego. Going First Class this time, courtesy of *someone else* and a limo ride from San Diego to our destination. 'Grandma' wouldn't have it any other way. (Trust me, she can afford it and telling her 'you don't have to do that' [I tried] is useless.) Besides, she didn't do this for me. She does it for her daughter. 

And brother...after THIS year...we NEED a vacation. B|

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Apologies for the double post, but I probably won't be posting anything up after I leave for San Diego. After some long discussions with Gayla, Greg, and a couple of other people, we have come up with three basic possibilities for a cooperative Cooper event in 2020. They have different angles, different dates, and even different goals. I will issue an official set of proposals on Feb 15, 2020...but until then this will give Cooper fans and investigators something to think about. 

First, I suggest you wait until after EU's event before you judge any of this. We're not interested in holding an event where only a dozen people show up, or even fifty for that matter. This event is aimed at the general public, not just a few from a select group. We believe that if Cooperland folks are going to organize and participate in a Cooper event, that there should be a decent audience to hear what they have to say. Plus media, if possible. 

Proposal 1:  A summer event held at the Ariel Store in Ariel, WA. You've heard the stories about what happened at the last one. Here's the actual truth:  About 200 people showed up for this one. But because owner Bryan Woodruff no longer has business licenses, he cannot hold the event indoors. However, he cleared an area out just south of the store and leveled it, put in a wall. There is a stage available, and bathrooms. This would be an overnight event for anyone who wanted to stay that long. YES...we would help sponsor another auction. I did not write off Bryan completely after the last party there, although for a while I was a bit miffed at him. I would have to talk to him again. This would be a general Cooper Party, with music, etc. Speakers, possibly some headliner guests, which is what he needed LAST time. I think I can get at least two of the Decoded cast to show up and some of the people from Kick Ass Oregon History. If we can't 'Restore the Store,' at least we might be able to help Bryan continue to keep it (and all the Cooper memorabilia there) preserved for another year. The bathrooms in the store can be used, and people can go into the store. You just can't serve alcohol in there. Anyone drinking must do it outside in the public area south of the store or OUTSIDE the store. We may go for a one-time banquet license on this one. NO ONE...and I mean NO ONE will be automatically excluded and I will speak to Bryan about that. I will also make efforts to have TV show up. If you were to ask me WHICH of these three proposals I favor most, and that would have the greatest attendance and chance of success...this is the one. 

Proposal 2:  Greg suggested we go ahead and try a Cooper Party outdoors in another location, and invite the public wide-cold-open. This would not be held in the woods, but a public area and only for a single day. Free food on the agenda, plenty of power sources and media available as usual. This would also be scheduled for mid-summer. I like Greg, but it is my LEAST favorite idea. 

Proposal 3: Okay...on this one there has to be real cooperation because I am not (as I said before) sticking my neck out there with headliners, and calling up favors a second time for nothing. It is basically the Combination Event that was proposed, except we aren't going to invite EU to host. Like the other proposals, neither EU or anyone else would be excluded, but if anyone actually wanted to do a presentation, they not only have to help plan the thing, but they also have to show they are serious. For this one, yes...we can get Oregon Public TV I think, plus media, and yes...some headliners that will help fill the seats. Frankly, I am a bit reluctant on this one. I have to be convinced people are serious because I am not going through what I did (again) earlier this year. For this one, there will be short films, speakers, and a Cooper Character Lookalike Contest with prizes. It is also the most EXPENSIVE proposal, which is why I will insist on real enthusiasm and cooperation. Estimated budget would be more than $2,500 easily. 

I think the CC Lookalike Contest would also work for an event in Ariel. But not on a campout event...not enough people would attend that. Our max attendance on campouts was about 16 people, not including Greg or myself. Even with a public camping event where we openly provide the schedule, contact info, and the maps, etc I would expect no more than 25 people to show up. These are generally held (except the time we went to the Mount Hood area in Oregon) in the Olympic National Forest and up the Skokomish River Valley about twenty miles past the George Adams Fish Hatchery. We have a couple of spots we have used there previously. We bring bath and shower tents with portable toilet, free BBQ, media projector with screen, smaller 32" smart TV, public shelter, and power sources for everyone to use. Vans and trucks with campers are okay. Motor homes are NOT allowed. These usually run three days and two nights, sometimes a day longer. 

Anyway, those are the basic things we have in mind. If there is no interest in any of them, we will probably toss two or three Cooper Campouts as usual for 2020 and leave it at that. On those, you have to apply to attend via the AB of Seattle contact page under the Public Events and Meetups page. But there won't be another campout until late spring anyway. 

The main reason I set a Feb 15 interest-or-no response date is because that is the month we receive the option check from the movie studios for another year. It's in four figures. That is where some of the money to hold any of these events comes from. So...if there is no interest I need to know right about that time. If there IS interest in any of these proposals, then I can start a budget and we can all make plans. 

If no one is really interested, we go to Plan B at AB of Seattle. I start shopping at Amazon for the two or three Cooper Campouts next year and pick up some additional gear I have been checking out. 

Most Important:  I have already been down this road with the Cooper Event thing a couple of times. The proposal earlier this year, and the last Ariel Party with the auction. If there is no interest, I won't lose any sleep over it. If there IS...it can be made to happen. I will let Cooperland decide. 2020 is my last full year in Washington state anyway. Gayla and I are leaving for either SoCal or Arizona for good no later than April 2021 and probably sooner. 

EDIT: Any reports on my evilness are greatly exaggerated.
Below: A picture taken around the time we were first preparing a report on a Cooper suspect for the Seattle FBI. B| I may be homely-looking but you have to admit Ginger is kind of cute. Have a great Thanksgiving, Cooper fans. 

 

bobandginger.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 11/19/2019 at 9:04 PM, Andrade1812 said:

I don't how many skydivers are still on this thread, but I'm looking for help: I would like to talk to any old-timers who were skydivers in the late 60s and early 70s who were jumping in Los Angeles. Specifically, anyone who was at the Elsinore Paracenter in the summer of 1971. 

Any referrals would be most welcome, PM me or contact me at marty.andrade at gmail 

What is the significance of Elsinore Skydive and in particular the summer of 1971?

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'What is the significance of Elsinore Skydive and in particular the summer of 1971?'

It's a guess but I think Andrade is trying to link a Cooper suspect to the Elsinore Paracenter. Andrade has a book out there about the hijacking. I suggested he create a separate thread on this one, which would probably get better responses. 

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