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DB Cooper

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(edited)

Deeds in many, if not most, cases do not recite the actual sales price. Instead, they simply recite "for $10.00 paid and good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which are hereby acknowledged." In part, the reason is because that is the form that the recorder's office expects to see. It may also be viewed as a privacy thing, where people don't want others to know directly how much they paid or received for a given property. The actual sales price is agreed upon, and paid in advance of, signing the deed. After the agreed purchase price is paid, then the deed is signed.

This is very common in real estate. it's been that way for decades. I guess you have never owned or sold a home. Dan Marino sold his house in Weston not long ago and has "one dollar" in place of ten dollars..this was explained to you many times over and ignored. I even showed Marinos deed. did Danny sell a multi million dollar home for a buck? 

Edited by mrshutter45

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Lyle was contacted by FBI agents out of Minneapolis sometime in 2007 or early 2008 and he says he gave a DNA sample. We base very little on his claims. Not because we don’t believe him, but because he is a family member. He did sign a contract with our company, Adventure Books of Seattle, disallowing him or any members of his family from benefiting financially should his brother be proven to be the hijacker. He signed over all rights to the Christiansen story to us at the very beginning of the investigation. I insisted on this in order to preserve some semblance of credibility with him. Frankly, any case against Christiansen for the Cooper case relies very little on his brother’s allegations.

It was confirmed by you here years back that Lyle had no idea where this story came from. that's what started "there is a liar in the KC story" Parrot spoke out about. this was after the DZ locked the thread and completed this document. 

Lets no forget the old stamp collection you claimed was an error at $300,000 by accidental zero added when it was suppose to be $30,000 and yet the report claims $20,000.

Edited by mrshutter45

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Final figure shows what the family received for the coins and/or stamps at auction. 

We have Lyle Christiansen's DNA sample, still sealed. It's right here in my office. The envelope and the things that went along with it are shown on camera in the video, 'A Little Trip to the FBI'. Easy to find at YouTube. FBI told me they would accept the report, but wouldn't accept the DNA because (probably because of the Marla Cooper fiasco) they were no longer willing to spend the money to have analysis done. 

Exact size and number of alleged sticks in bomb not determined. I doubt that if KC was involved in all this, and if Denise's testimony is true about it, that KC actually USED 16 rolls of coins. Maybe four at most, and the rest made from who knows. RR flares perhaps. He was known to collect coins, as you already know. Probably just used ones he had laying around, I suppose. 

The rest of your presentations...let's say I was able to make sense of some of them, the rest...not really. I would still like to thank you for your assistance, albeit in a rather backwards way, for us getting as far as we have regarding KC. His story will almost certainly be presented next year, and that's all I really wanted in the first place. 

I'm not going to rub it in on account of fairness, but you DO realize there are investigative files on KC and Geestman that were given to the production companies that were NOT released to the public, right? Maybe you should wait for the movie. If that falls through, I will release everything we have on them since the confidentiality agreement will no longer be in force. If they DO make the movie, it will all be settled there. 

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You got the DNA recently. the other story is FALSE. the sticks of dynamite, if real would be more likely to match the actual size which is eight inches. it's ridiculous to use two different materials Robert. the whole thing is off the wall. wood dowels would provide more reality than putting a bunch of things together. a reference to plastic wires were mentioned. the sticks were wrapped in tape to hold them together and not the sticks that were wrapped. 

The book has errors.The latest report has error's..whats the cost for changing a PDF file. you won't change the book because of funding. it took months to get you to remove the false information on your site. is that "telling it straight" I call them error's or inaccuracies. I could use that old term "lie" if we must? 

You broke the chain of evidence. they will not take that sample..they told you that..

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I don't know about any chain of evidence. There was a story going around years ago that Lyle had met with an FBI agent in Morris, MN or something and someone got his DNA. Whatever. When I found out they didn't, I got one from him later. Excuse me, but big deal. Not everything is a lie or a conspiracy. B|

Doesn't matter. It wasn't about any 'chain of evidence' and how the heck would you know what the FBI said to me? You weren't there.

Agent Fred Gutt told me later that to do the test required to match a DNA sample to the partial from the tie was very expensive. It was a bit more than just that box you order online to find out where your ancestors originated. And that's why they weren't doing it anymore. They no longer had the budget to run additional tests. Amazingly enough, this policy went into place after the Marla Fiasco. 

The reason we keep Lyle's sample is just in case the Seattle FBI ever decides to release the results of the partial sample they obtained from the tie. In that case, I *might* pay to have it done but we're talking a few thousand dollars here. So maybe not. However, the studio guys told me THEY would pay if it ever became available publicly. 

I'm not changing the book until they get to First Day of Production Shooting on the movie, or unless they drop the option. I would just have to do it a second time. You think any book published, out of the dozens that have been done on Cooper are 100% accurate? Not a chance. It was based on information collected between October 2007, when Geoff Gray came along, and October 2010. Of course it isn't 100% accurate. It isn't supposed to be. And I say in the book we don't know for sure if KC and Geestman are the perps, and that the book is only a primer on Christiansen. 

You've made your points. Perhaps you should move on to something else. We're not changing our decisions regarding editing the book, and even if we did, I certainly wouldn't base any decision about that on your opinions. 

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yes, I do believe the adjoining lot was sold for ten dollars, although I am not sure what 'and other considerations' means in the contract. Hard to tell because the Grimes' couple had already passed away when KC was first brought forward as a suspect by Geoff Gray. The son of the Grimes couple was interviewed by me once. He looked at it and said it might refer to an under the table cash payment. We already know that Bernie Geestman was Best man at the Grimes wedding, and was the one who hooked up KC for the house with the Grimes. Several sources confirmed this including Geestman's ex wife and his own sister. Joe Grimes' son says his dad was a cash on the barrelhead kind of guy and it probably refers to a cash payment no one wanted to report to the IRS. Sounds reasonable, although he couldn't be sure. 

 

Confirmation bias at its finest right there.

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(edited)

Lots of legal issues dealing with cash on real estate. too much to even attempt to explain to Robert if he can't grasp the 10 dollar consideration to begin with...they know what the property and buildings are worth. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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2 minutes ago, MarkBennett said:

You can Google “10 dollars and other valuable consideration” and get several entries explaining it.  However, Shutter explained it pretty well a few posts back.

I am aware of that. Unfortunately, the contract between the Grimes couple and Kenny Christiansen doesn't explain what exactly was given. And the Grimes couple died a year apart, I think around 05-06. So they were not available for questioning. The son could not tell me exactly, either. He said it was probably a cash payment, but there is no way to tell for sure. 

Frankly speaking, here at AB we no longer consider the house purchase as important as some of the other evidence we uncovered later. Things like that money buried out back of KC's house, the testimony given by Denise, and the testimony by Troy Bentz and his co-workers, etc. Maybe even Margie Geestman's admission in her second-to-last interview that yes, KC was the hijacker. None of it is conclusive, or can prove the two men committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, and I have said this many times. 

You want me to tell you I know for a fact they were the Guys Who Got Away With It? I can't. And I won't. What I WILL tell you is that there is enough to raise questions and concerns, and the production companies and their staff thought there was enough to tell KC's story. 

I would like equal time here. If you are going to challenge on Kenny, I would like to see you do the same thing about Walter Reca, a guy they have taking the hijacked jet almost a hundred miles out of the way before heading to Portland. Or Rackstraw, who had blue eyes, was under the age of thirty, and who the main witness rejected. Or even Bruce Smith, your second-or-third most prolific member, who claimed I wanted to beat him up. 

That was actually funny, to tell you the truth. If you want to talk about whoppers, that was one of the biggest ever done by a member of the Cooper Community.  It's just like Flyjack said. Some people in Cooper Royalty will lash out with dirty tricks and lies, just to make themselves look better, while trying to make others look bad. Problem is, if you go overboard with it, sometimes it backfires on you. 

Why don't you face facts? Some of you tried every trick in the book, whether legit or not, and the only thing you accomplished was to help us along. There is no use in whining about it now. If and when the movie comes out, you can go to Amazon and give it a crappy review. I couldn't care less. Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with the idea or not, I have always told you guys we move forward. Some of you even made threats against our Oregon Cooper Campout by posting comments on Bruce Smith's Mountain News to get our attention. 

In our opinion, and mine personally...few of you can be trusted. Maybe 377, and certainly Tom K. Not many more. 

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(edited)

why don't YOU face the facts of not knowing what the hell you are talking about. now it becomes irrelevant and you spin off to something else to divert? 

 

we are discussing what you present. it has nothing to do with Reca, or anyone else. you don't have a problem discussing them so why should we have a problem discussing Kenny? 

Edited by mrshutter45

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Reca, or Rackstraw, or even Marla are not here presenting so called facts. you are here and they are not. we did discuss Rackstraw to an extent. we are going directly to the source as you mention so many times with getting answers...too hot for ya?  

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2 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

why don't YOU face the facts of not knowing what the hell you are talking about. now it becomes irrelevant and you spin off to something else to divert? 

we are discussing what you present. it has nothing to do with Reca, or anyone else. you don't have a problem discussing them so why should we have a problem discussing Kenny? 

You can discuss Kenny all you wish. I wasn't spinning or diverting a thing. I was showing the nature of some of the people doing the discussions. It goes to credibility. Threats, lies, in order to achieve a goal? It's not only juvenile, it's pathetic. 

I think I presented my points sufficiently well here. There's nothing else I can really tell you. 

There are two Great Truths here. 

First, if someone were actually proven to be Cooper, the entire discussion on Cooper would enter a new phase, and then after a while it would collapse. 

Second, KC is a VERY polarizing suspect. There is very little middle ground with him. My experience is that either people believe very strongly he was Cooper, or they believe he wasn't, and just as strongly. It has always been that way from the start. 

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(edited)

Robert, you are not honest about a lot of things. lets start at the beginning. you told everyone on this thread Skipp contacted you. that was false. you laid claims the house was bought for cash. that's was incorrect. the funny part was showing a mortgage while stating it was a cash deal :)

One of your witnesses even said Kenny paid cash for the house. how could that be true. then the DNA fable and the 10 bucks for a lot. it goes on and on. we corrected you over the years and it irritates you to no end being wrong. it has nothing to do with being slanted. you asked for years for people to look into your story. well, that's what we did.. 

Edited by mrshutter45
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It's true we made some mistakes during the investigation, but many of them we corrected later. Most of those issues were addressed by illustrated articles at WordPress that have been there for years now. 

The ten bucks paid for a lot? That's what it says. No one can figure out what 'and other considerations' actually means. You can guess at it. My best source, my only source was the son of the sellers. He thought it was an under the table cash payment. No way to prove that. 

The DNA? I already addressed that. The story I got during our early investigation was that either the FBI or possibly the Morris, MN cops visited Lyle and got a sample. Doesn't matter much, since we have one now but can't do anything with it unless the FBI releases their partial results from the tie. Maybe the guy who is doing the FOIA will try to get them. That would be good. 

I think we can agree that you don't believe KC and Geestman were the perps. I am okay with that. You aren't the only one with that opinion. Like I said, he's definitely a polarizing suspect. But the fact remains that our active investigation on those two is closed, and the only thing left for us is to see if they actually do the movie. There is nothing else here, nothing I can offer you. It is what it is, as they say. 

The only REAL Cooper-related thing other than that is to decide whether we will do three or four final Cooper Campouts next year, or if there is any support (by Feb 15) on AB of Seattle financing a one-time replacement for the Ariel Party. That's really about it. 

Judging from the atmosphere so far regarding support for such a party, I am already putting camping items on my wish list at Amazon. I will give it until February 15 as I promised, but I doubt anyone will be interested. 

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(edited)
26 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The DNA? I already addressed that. The story I got during our early investigation was that either the FBI or possibly the Morris

That's a lie. you already admitted Lyle had no idea where the story came from and it's still in the report....who else would tell you this? 

If I'm not mistaken you tried to say yourself you had no idea either...I believe this also had multiple explanations...

Edited by mrshutter45

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 

The ten bucks paid for a lot? That's what it says. No one can figure out what 'and other considerations' actually means. You can guess at it. 

 

It makes it very difficult to give you the benefit of the doubt when you deny the obvious.

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13 minutes ago, MarkBennett said:

It makes it very difficult to give you the benefit of the doubt when you deny the obvious.

WOW, I missed that one. sounds like he would tell you the sun is shining while it's pouring..I would hate to hit him with the old "non disclosure state" 

Edited by mrshutter45

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(edited)

Why Does My Conveyance Say Ten Dollars Instead of the Sale Price?
Royalty and mineral interests are a form of real estate.  There are two ways to transfer real estate from one party to another, by gift or by sale.  In order for a sale to be valid, something of value must be exchanged for the property.  This is something of value is known as consideration, and in our case is whatever it is we are paying you for the property.

The first paragraph of our Conveyance states:  "in consideration of the sum of Ten and more dollars ($10.00) cash in hand paid and other good and valuable consideration."

These conveyances are recorded in the Courthouse of the County in which the interest is located, thereby placing it of public record.  Anybody can see the document.  It is not anybody's business what you received when you sold your property and thus we use the above "consideration" language in order to state that something of value was exchanged and thus this is a valid transaction.

Class dismissed :) 

Edited by mrshutter45

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

That's a lie. you already admitted Lyle had no idea where the story came from and it's still in the report....who else would tell you this? 

If I'm not mistaken you tried to say yourself you had no idea either...I believe this also had multiple explanations...

That was a few years back, and probably came from one of the literally hundreds of emails I received over those years from Skipp Porteous, as well as Lyle. That's most likely the original source but I would have to go back and check. 

It's a tempest in a teapot. We have a sealed sample of Lyle's DNA now, just in case the FBI decides to release the results taken from Cooper's tie. Or someone gets it released through FOIA action. 

When I prepared the final report in 2015, I was going to submit Lyle's sample to ArcPoint Labs and get results...and then try to submit that result to the FBI and urge them to compare it. My thinking was:  If the FBI doesn't have to pay for the test, maybe they will take a look. And then I found out it costs several thousand dollars to do that. This cost was verified by the FBI as well. In the video I did, you can see me taking the sample to Seattle. 

But...looking at the report today, I can see where a small part of that under Lyle's testimony section could be confusing. I don't think it really matters a lot in the way of evidence whether I was right about a 2007-08 sample being taken, (this is before we got involved in 2009) but I think I will change a few lines in the PDF to say we HAVE a sample in case a comparison can be made, and leave off the bit about ArcPoint, since we had to ditch that idea due to the costs. I simply forgot to change a couple of things once I found out about the cost. Yes, it is fair to ask that. And I will do that. It was simply a mistake. The report was being prepared as a three-part package.

1) Photo album sheets with plastic overlays containing pictures that only Kenny installed into the album. PURPOSE: Possible fingerprints remaining on the pictures to be compared to the ones held by the FBI. 

2) Fifty-four page report with illustrations on the investigation, including the testimony of witnesses and their contact information. 

3) Results of a DNA profile test which the FBI could compare to the partial results from the tie. PROBLEM: When I wrote the report, I forgot to change that bit saying we had the DNA profile results, because I canceled that idea due to the extreme costs. 

However, when I delivered the initial copy of the report to the Seattle FBI office, I did take along the DNA sample we had from Lyle. That's when they confirmed THEY weren't willing to spend any more of the kind of money it costs to do what is far more than a 'normal' DNA test. But I forgot to edit the report a bit to show we only had the sample. 

If the FBI actually released the information on the partial sample they have to the public, this could be used to eliminate, or not eliminate, any suspect where DNA of the suspect himself, or a close family member could be obtained. Too bad they won't do it. 

Shutter says in part:

Quote

'It is not anybody's business what you received when you sold your property and thus we use the above "consideration" language in order to state that something of value was exchanged and thus this is a valid transaction...'

Class is back in session. 

What if what was exchanged was stolen? Or for example, have you ever heard of money laundering, the IRS, paying taxes on gains or income, or any of those things? Neither of us has a clue what was meant in that sale document. If either of us knew what was actually exchanged, one of us would have said what it was by now. Whatever it was, it was probably worth more than ten bucks. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

You keep insisting on showing the DNA from a couple years ago...we know that...it was the multiple explanations given about the DNA in 2007. you said at one point Lyle told you over the phone..very detailed...and not second hand info..I have the screenshot somewhere..then years later you said Lyle had no idea where the story came from..

Edited by mrshutter45

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16 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

What if what was exchanged was stolen? Or for example, have you ever heard of money laundering, the IRS, paying taxes on gains or income, or any of those things? Neither of us has a clue what was meant in that sale document. If either of us knew what was actually exchanged, one of us would have said what it was by now. Whatever it was, it was probably worth more than ten bucks. 

lol forget it pal...it's way over your head. 

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