10 10
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

(edited)

I have always been interested in this interview with Loren Peterson..

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/collections/item.aspx?irn=123428&record=20

Most people have discounted his entire account as he claimed he counted the bundles of money and it totalled $250,000. We know that isn't correct. He also drifts between his experience and what he heard about the case.. hard to parse.

However, if the bundles were banded in 4 x packets (100 bills) = $8000 per bundle X 25 bundles. He may have assumed 5 x packets (100 bills) = $10,000 per bundle X 25 bundles, that equals $250,000. In other words, he accurately counted 25 bundles but at $10,000 each instead of 25 bundles at $8,000 each. That may be why he got $250,000 instead of $200,000.. but that means they weren't random. You can't really count random sized bundles.

He also explains how he opened the money bag, repacked it and tied it up before it went to the plane.

 

and they forgot to sign for the money...

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shutter,

You should get to the bottom of Eric's decal claim (Boeing confirming it was from behind the two hole panel), if true it is crucial and means the FBI is lying about the decal. If Cooper accessed that inner panel the FBI had to know about it.. and we are being played.

If false, Eric is just exaggerating again.

Eric won't answer my questions. He doesn't seem to like tough questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Fifty years after the fact, there is more to the Cooper case than just the case itself, which has been discussed endlessly. There are dozens of documentaries, websites dedicated to Cooper, pages AT websites dedicated to Cooper, news articles about personalities involved in the case, just an entire world of 'Cooper Stuff'. There are people who front themselves up as experts who will tell you anything you want to know, as well as offer their solutions. 

To ignore these things exist, and to deny they have an effect with the public is pointless, because they DO exist. 

For example, when we toss the Cooper Campouts, we've gone max capacity or close every time. (Except the time we went to the Mt. Hood area in Oregon.) So the public is out there, trust me on this. 

And the public deserves to know the truth about everything and everybody involved in all of this. Over the last ten years or so, the majority of discussion about Cooper doesn't involve who done it. It actually involves the people surrounding the case, aka Cooperland. 

I will always be the first to support anything in Cooperland, as long as it a positive. And when it is a negative, I will (yes) come down on them like a load of bricks. But it goes the other way as well. I have had negativity sent my way occasionally. Some deserved perhaps...and sometimes not. That's just the way it is. If you want any trust from the public, you have to be ready to:

1) Answer questions honesty if you can, if you aren't violating some trust you agreed to previously. 

2) Get ready to take your lumps occasionally, because no one is perfect. 

3) Try to do better after you take those lumps. 

4) Refuse to support anything that is negatively slanted in the case. 

EDIT: Side note on the Washington State Historical Society. They wouldn't know what to ask in an interview if the instruction book was dropped into their laps. Most of the interviews they did for the Cooper exhibit were a waste of time. I have visited the museum several times. Sure, it's nice. But curators should stick to what they know best and leave the Cooper interviewing to the experts. I pulled the plug on participation with them after they demanded Gayla's Social Security Number and said they wanted to buy copies of Blast for the exhibit. (Our tax ID number for AB of Seattle wasn't good enough for their records they said) I told them they could pick up a few copies at Amazon, and dumped further communication with them. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

The purpose of the WSHM wasn't to investigate the Cooper case, they were informative for the exhibit.

Some of the information does add to the body of evidence and it would not exist otherwise.

Sure, investigative interviews would be handled differently.

 

Bill Mitchell..

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/collections/item.aspx?irn=122559

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Yeah, I saw the Mitchell interview. One question was really lacking, which proves my point about these interviews. I would have asked:

"Have you ever seen pictures of any of the major suspects and dismissed that suspect out of hand, based on the picture? If so, which suspects did you dismiss?" That would have been an obvious question. They missed the opportunity completely. 

Funniest thing I have seen today, Cooper-related:

Quote

"CooperCon 2019 is "Everything DB Cooper!"

Uh, no...that would be the page at Quora dot com with the 1,266 or so followers. ;)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
On 11/9/2019 at 8:32 AM, The Cooper Vortex said:

Latest episode is out now DB Cooper was a Priest with Gregg Gossett. Check it out!

 

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-a-priest/

 

Enjoy!

Good show,, you can certainly see why Gossett was considered a good suspect.. 

 

Perhaps interview Georger, heard he recently has had some time freed up...

Georger can explain his Cooper suspect theory... Theodore John Kaczynski, the UNABOMBER.

Cooper had a grudge, Kaczynski had a grudge, Georger has a grudge,,, case solved?

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Good show,, you can certainly see why Gossett was considered a good suspect.. 

 

Perhaps interview Georger, heard he recently has had some time freed up...

Georger can explain his Cooper suspect theory... Theodore John Kaczynski, the UNABOMBER.

Cooper had a grudge, Kaczynski had a grudge, Georger has a grudge,,, case solved?

Thanks! Wolfgang is a very interesting suspect. I would absolutely love to have Georger on the show, he knows a lot about the case and has definitely made a name for himself inside the vortex.

 

I'm still waiting for you to do the show Flyjack. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

No Cooper stuff today, except for posting the latest '100 Hijackers/100 Days' entry at Quora, courtesy of author Brendan Koerner. Some of you already know his book about the OTHER American hijacker who got away with it: Catherine Kurkow from Coos Bay, Oregon. 

Now there's a lady I would like to meet. The book about her and her boyfriend Willie Holder is one of the best out there, titled The Skies Belong to Us - Love and Terror in the Golden Age of Hijacking. Holder turned himself in upon his return to the USA. Kurkow slipped away from the French court system and most likely picked up a new passport under an assumed name at the US embassy in Switzerland. She has never been seen since and would be close to 70 years old now. She spoke fluent French and many people think she's living back in France, or maybe Belgium. Europe is almost a certainty. She also got monetary assistance from people who (back then) supported 'radical chic,' a term for people who committed crimes on a political basis. 

Picture below of Kurkow next to a picture of my high school girlfriend, Georgia. :) Georgia is the blonde on the left. As far as Kurkow, the FBI still has an active warrant out on her for air piracy and extortion. Georgia is pretty harmless. 

(The reason I said 'no Cooper stuff today' is because this household is preparing for the BIG MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL game between the Seattle Seahawks and the San Francisco 49'rs. Some visitors are coming for the game and dinner. I don't give the Hawks more than a one in three chance of winning, but you never know. )

GeorgiaAndCatherine.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

There are very few professional sports teams that I hate more than the 49ers. That said, I don't care who wins as long as I can win some cash on Fanduel. I've not had much luck lately. I'm banking on a big game from Russell Wilson.

Well, he seldom does poorly, that's for sure. Fanduel is blocked in WA state. That's probably why I had not heard of it. You could win if you bet strictly on Wilson, I suppose. 

I had to clean the house today including the bathroom. Guests coming. We're firing up the BBQ later. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

RE: Parachutes

 

Cossey's statement...

"I provided two parachutes one of them being an NB8... and the other being a Pioneer sport parachute."

that does not match Hayden's two chutes.

 

Both Hayden and Cossey must have sent in 2 back chutes each. Hayden got one back, Cossey got one back and Cooper jumped with one. The other is unknown.

at 32:00 of video

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Earl Cossey: Same guy who wrote off the parachute found in Amboy, WA in 2008 by claiming it was silk, and not nylon. Which by the way is NOT true. It is nylon. 

We've been down this road before, and I will only say this:  I have interviewed Norman Hayden previously, and at length. Before he ever saw the report by FBI agent John Detlor, his descriptions of the chutes he sent matched that report. No prompting from me, and he never saw the report previously. And yet his testimony matched the report. 

THEN I sent him a copy of the report, which he later put into a frame. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
37 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Earl Cossey: Same guy who wrote off the parachute found in Amboy, WA in 2008 by claiming it was silk, and not nylon. Which by the way is NOT true. It is nylon. 

We've been down this road before, and I will only say this:  I have interviewed Norman Hayden previously, and at length. Before he ever saw the report by FBI agent John Detlor, his descriptions of the chutes he sent matched that report. No prompting from me, and he never saw the report previously. And yet his testimony matched the report. 

THEN I sent him a copy of the report, which he later put into a frame. 

You still don't grasp all the evidence in context.

Hayden and Cossey didn't know that the other had also sent in chutes.

The FBI documented the chute serial number that was left in the plane by Cooper and it DOES NOT match the one returned to Hayden. It was one of Hayden's left behind but not the one sent back to him. That means one of Hayden's and one of Cossey's was sent to Cooper and Cooper used Cossey's. The FBI mixed them up before they went to the plane.

You misread the Deltor report.. it doesn't actually say that Hayden's two chutes were sent to Cooper. It only states that Hayden furnished two chutes to NORTHWEST "in order to secure parachutes to furnish the hijacker"... It does state that the front chutes were for the hijacker. It doesn't confirm the back packs.

That report is a carefully worded document intended to be vague and mislead. This document does not support your argument.

 

Hayden never gave the FBI the descriptions..

From Bruce Smith interview.

https://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/

" First, the container looked old – WWII vintage – even though the manufacturing label said April 1957.  Further, I didn’t see any “wear marks,” as suggested in the FBI docs.

 “This is a luxury chute?” Norman sighed when I read the FBI document to him, clearly refuting this aspect of the Bureau’s characterization of the “chute not-taken.”

 Compounding doubts further, the harness material looked fresh, as if it came from a more current rig.  Plus, I didn’t see any special padding on them, which the FBI claims should be there. "

 

Even Hayden pondered the 4 back chute scenario..

" In addition, Barry supports Norman’s claim that as far as they know, both back chutes were identical.  In fact, Norman seemed a bit dismayed about bureaucratic in-accuracies when I read aloud the FBI description of the two back parachutes and their many differences.

However, Barry openly wonders if the FBI received four back parachutes that day – two from Norman that were identical, and two from Earl Cossey that were not. 

Supporting the notion of two sets of two back parachutes, author Richard Tosaw and the renown Cooper researcher known as Sluggo, both claim that NWO’s chief pilot, Al Lee, who was stationed at Sea-Tac airport, made the calls looking for parachutes and reached Earl Cossey at home. "

 

Both Hayden and Cossey are correctly stating the truth from their perspective.

 

haydencosseyfbiexcerpt3.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

You keep saying doesn't match. what does that mean.

The writing on the outer panel with the holes.. there is another break away panel behind it.

That is the right system.. that decal has to go either behind that access panel or inside the lower external panel.

another one..

 

727controldoor1.jpg.649648ac8b1a8736cbd60f7ce5cb2c9a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

According to the card showing how to pull the panel. the second one looks more like a framed panel open in the center. how would you pull it off? once that's removed the handle in there...I've never seen a box closing it in either like the normal stair release has..

Edited by mrshutter45

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Most of these planes are no longer commercial aircraft. the decal could be long gone. I'm not sure but Hominid said they started removing them after the hijackings, the emergency release..that's never been verified. 

Edited by mrshutter45

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Detlor report is clear. They call Barry Halstead at Pac Aviation. Halstead calls up Hayden and Hayden sends up his two back pack chutes by cab. This makes sense because Hayden didn't own, and never had any intention of ever buying a front reserve chute. He only wore the backpack grudgingly, he said. He was forced to wear one by the rules established for sport flying. 

Meanwhile, Cossey claims he was called personally by either the FBI or NWA? That is hogwash. They did the same thing they did for the backpacks. They called a place out of the phone book, or one suggested to them...Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey never went there that night, as well. If he had, NWA wouldn't have received a non-working chute. State Patrol shows up to pick up two reserves. The guy at Issaquah Sky hands over a working reserve, and one that didn't work. 

There ARE no records of any other chutes being sent to the airport that night. Just because the FBI guys in Reno may have misread a number doesn't mean six chutes were delivered. Both Cossey and Hayden agree that Cossey re-packed an NB8 for Hayden a few months prior to the hijacking. Cooper jumped with an NB8. The working reserve was popped and is still being held as evidence. The non working one was tossed out the back, most likely. The chute returned to Hayden was the Pioneer. Cooper jumped with the NB8. There are no other chutes. 

The only weird possibility I can imagine is if the FBI decided to keep it secret...IF the non working reserve was left on board, and not missing from the aircraft as they said. 

There is also something else here. The airline was insistent on complying exactly with Cooper's demands. Cooper asked specifically for two front and two back chutes. And that's exactly what he got. Why would they send him more chutes than he asked for? 

You think perhaps some 'extras' were delivered to the airport, but there is no record of that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

No placard would be inside the interior of the wall or behind that panel with the holes. the placard alone is too big..half of the panels for the stairs are missing...

Eric claimed Boeing confirmed it was behind the two hole panel.. that claim is questionable.

I don't know what the 2nd panel looks like and the Hicks placard text doesn't exactly match the interior emergency release system and it definitely doesn't match the main emergency system (push handle). It best matches the exterior one inside the outer access panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
16 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The Detlor report is clear. They call Barry Halstead at Pac Aviation. Halstead calls up Hayden and Hayden sends up his two back pack chutes by cab. This makes sense because Hayden didn't own, and never had any intention of ever buying a front reserve chute. He only wore the backpack grudgingly, he said. He was forced to wear one by the rules established for sport flying. 

Meanwhile, Cossey claims he was called personally by either the FBI or NWA? That is hogwash. They did the same thing they did for the backpacks. They called a place out of the phone book, or one suggested to them...Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey never went there that night, as well. If he had, NWA wouldn't have received a non-working chute. State Patrol shows up to pick up two reserves. The guy at Issaquah Sky hands over a working reserve, and one that didn't work. 

There ARE no records of any other chutes being sent to the airport that night. Just because the FBI guys in Reno may have misread a number doesn't mean six chutes were delivered. Both Cossey and Hayden agree that Cossey re-packed an NB8 for Hayden a few months prior to the hijacking. Cooper jumped with an NB8. The working reserve was popped and is still being held as evidence. The non working one was tossed out the back, most likely. The chute returned to Hayden was the Pioneer. Cooper jumped with the NB8. There are no other chutes. 

The only weird possibility I can imagine is if the FBI decided to keep it secret...IF the non working reserve was left on board, and not missing from the aircraft as they said. 

There is also something else here. The airline was insistent on complying exactly with Cooper's demands. Cooper asked specifically for two front and two back chutes. And that's exactly what he got. Why would they send him more chutes than he asked for? 

You think perhaps some 'extras' were delivered to the airport, but there is no record of that. 

It only says Hayden sent in two chutes, it does not confirm that his two chutes were sent to the plane.

There are no records because the FBI mixed everything up and was confused about it.

No record doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You don't misread a serial number and manufacturing date but get the packing date correct. Hayden's chutes were both packed May 21.

 

Moreover, from your comment I can tell you still don't understand the process here..

There were ONLY four chutes sent to the plane, two fronts and two backs.

The FBI scrambled to get the two backs, Hayden was contacted and he sent in two backs by cab. Another person contacted Cossey at home and he sent in two chutes..

The people receiving the chutes didn't know which was which, they grabbed two backs and sent them to plane with the two fronts. It happened to be one back from Cossey and one from Hayden. There would have been two back chutes sent to the plane with the two fronts.. now Hayden got one back, it was his chute that never went to the plane. Cossey got one back as well, the one that never went to the plane.

Why is this important... it doesn't tell us who Cooper was but it tells us that Cooper jumped with Cossey's chute. Cossey was not lying about it. His description of that chute is the right one.

Hayden sent in two chutes and assumed both were sent to the plane. Cossey assumed both of his were sent to the plane.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Eric claimed Boeing confirmed it was behind the two hole panel.. that claim is questionable.

I don't know what the 2nd panel looks like and the Hicks placard text doesn't exactly match the interior emergency release system and it definitely doesn't match the main emergency system (push handle). It best matches the exterior one inside the outer access panel.

The planes went through changes periodically, each airline is different. TWA could of used them while NWO didn't. I've mentioned several times it should of been very simple for Boeing to say they went anywhere around the controls inside the stairwell. that should of been easy enough for the FBI to understand or anyone for that matter. why the blueprints? I think I could tell you where the lug nuts are on a vehicle without drawings...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem I see with the chutes vs the documents is the lack of anyone saying they showed up from Cossey. we have plenty of documents for the other sets of chutes. even the highway patrol saying they blew the motor up in the car. Cossey wasn't home. how did they get there? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
10 10