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Looking at the photo's of the testing shows it would be pretty difficult to stand up on the stairs. not much room and the stairs don't go as far down as I thought with weight on them..this photo shows the stairs far from being down. the same with the other photo.I showed with the sandbag on the steps. 

weight.png

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28 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The placard was posted to the OUTSIDE of the aircraft from where it came, and could have come off any jet that had the same placard. 

When will you realize Boeing has now stated two times the placard was not on the exterior of the plane. are they lying too along with Tina and now Hicks? 

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(edited)
38 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

When will you realize Boeing has now stated two times the placard was not on the exterior of the plane. are they lying too along with Tina and now Hicks? 

I dunno. I didn't say Boeing was lying, or anyone else. There are conflicting reports in the media though. 

Look...I WANT to buy the idea it came from Norjak. If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent the money at Amazon last spring for two metal detectors, a pinpointer, got permission from Weyerhauser Logging to do a search south of the find, and start inviting some of the people from previous Cooper Campouts to help out. Especially if they owned a metal detector. 

I still think the placard may have been deliberately torn off by Cooper and tossed out to possibly throw off a later ground search. Who knows? 

Of course, this whole idea of a search was more of a gathering and a discussion rather than a search where we would realistically find anything from the hijacking. I knew that from the start. I'm still considering it only because it is one spot (other than the Tina Bar location) that you can say SOMETHING Cooper may have ended up there. For that alone, it rates a visit as much as driving down a road along the flight path fifty years after the fact. (The upcoming event this month by Eric U.) 

I could still be talked into this search idea, by the way. But not unless anyone is really interested. I no longer organize events or gatherings, (other than Cooper campouts) unless there is interest. The campouts are easy, because I already have the contact info on most of the previous attendees. I just email or call them up..."We're doing ANOTHER Cooper party..."  Not hard to get some of them to say yes, when you provide enough advance notice so they can pack, plan, shop, and schedule for it. 

Especially when you provide big screen movies, power sources, shelter, free BBQ, and other 'optional' items. Next one is April 2020, tentatively scheduled for the first weekend that month. I've never given details on what REALLY happens on these things, except for what is in the WordPress article. But the truth is they are a lot like the old Cooper Days party they held at the Ariel Store, but on a smaller scale, and you don't have to drive home at 2AM. You just go to your tent, van, camper or whatever.

Yeah. It's a party. Now you know. B|

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Just to clarify, that wire on the handle doesn't do anything as far as the function of the handle goes. It's not connected to anything mechanical or powered. It's just a seal on the handle. It serves two functions. One, it holds the handle in place so it doesn't move inadvertently. Between removing a door, breaking a flange, and breaking that wire, you've got to intend to move that handle. Second, in the aftermath of an incident, the broken wire tells the investigators that the handle was indeed used.

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(edited)
14 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Just to clarify, that wire on the handle doesn't do anything as far as the function of the handle goes. It's not connected to anything mechanical or powered. It's just a seal on the handle. It serves two functions. One, it holds the handle in place so it doesn't move inadvertently. Between removing a door, breaking a flange, and breaking that wire, you've got to intend to move that handle. Second, in the aftermath of an incident, the broken wire tells the investigators that the handle was indeed used.

Makes sense to me. Like the glass on a fire alarm, sort of. 

Shutter45 says in part:

Quote

'Looking at the photo's of the testing shows it would be pretty difficult to stand up on the stairs. not much room and the stairs don't go as far down as I thought with weight on them..this photo shows the stairs far from being down. the same with the other photo.I showed with the sandbag on the steps...'

Yeah. You guys laughed at me when I theorized that Cooper backed down the steps instead of going forward. He probably pulled right off the last step. When he got the nerve to do it. No one in their right mind would trust a single chute in a freefall provided to them by the same people who wanted them dead or captured. Yes...I know one hijacker did just that, but I don't think Cooper did. He probably pulled and let that chute squid out and pull him right off the stairs. Mark M, aka '377' has said the same thing and he's the best jumper I know. If the chute doesn't work, Cooper still has one up in the cabin he could try. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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It's what I've been saying. that type of control is not similar to what is on a 737. it's purpose it to release something easily. you can't do that with electric stairs that deploy different than free falling. it's specific to that type of stairs. the placard is from the stairwell of a 727. 

Cooper clearly had trouble with the stairs. I don't think it was trouble at all. he didn't know they wouldn't drop fully while in flight. it's very plausible he removed the placard in frustration. the odds are greater of the possibility of coming from 305. placards do fall off but to have one from the inside get on the ground isn't that hard to figure out when the stairs were open for most of the flight. if he did remove it and was right handed it would of been discarded to his right which would be onto the stairs. it's extremely light and could of escaped easily. he had no reason to keep it or toss it out. the panel would be missing if he did use that function and I'm guessing the handle would now be on the outside of the wall hanging like a loose pull handle on a lawnmower away from it's original location inside and behind the wall panel. unless it had some sort of retracting system. 

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(edited)

Well, I lean toward the idea the placard was from 305. Thought about it a lot today. Even if Hicks exaggerated his role in the initial search for some newspaper article, it doesn't matter. It only matters if he was telling the truth about his find. 

If so, the placard probably came from 305. I tend to believe that Hicks (or some press guy) boosted his role in the search. You know locals came out of the woodwork to help by the dozens, and there are a LOT of hunters in that area. A depressed area at that time, deer was real food, and word out that 200K in cash might be on the ground. 

I don't think the area is worth a search today, though. I figured that at most, a group of 14 or so might be able to cover one-half square mile over two days. Not close, not even. I figure with a nine-mile N/S window against a three-mile E/W search area due to drift, that's twenty-seven square miles. Any search would be hopeless without thousands of participants, and even I can't feed that many people. B|

EDIT: Don't forget to check out the best advice I ever gave to Cooper fans and investigators. Oh, yeah. THAT advice. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah. You guys laughed at me when I theorized that Cooper backed down the steps instead of going forward.

I don't recall that at all, in fact I stated many times that nobody would walk down the stairs like they would a typical set of stairs.. it's nothing but a guess how he jumped off the stairs. only two ways to really do it. 

The question would be whether or not Cooper accessed the emergency panel. if he did the small panel must be somewhere. Tina does make a statement that she showed him the "controls" and not the control to the stairs. then several days later they thought Cooper might of hidden behind the panels in the stairwell. while checking they describe the stairwell failing to note the emergency panel and state only one control. 

no mention emergency panel.png

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7 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

Boeing records indicate all passenger aircraft were manufactured with this system. even some cargo/passenger aircraft had them. if the records are correct in the Yap report then 305 also had the function. 

report.png

That doesn't mean all (every) passenger aircraft had the system, it means the 164 Boeing 727-100 with it were "all passenger aircraft". 91 were cargo/passenger and modification 63 kits sold.

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12 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Then that leaves 180 that didn't have the emergency system.....

No indication how many didn't have it.

91 - 727-100C pass/cargo

164  - 727-100 passenger

63  - modification kits sold

= 318 total 

 

This is it, outer decal does not match Hicks

We need to determine if NORJAK even had this optional emergency release system...

727EMERGRELDOOR.jpeg.cc9284f8aac93a77a61a959ab948279d.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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The Hicks placard would not fit on the emergency panel and would have two holes in it...this is now a private luxury jet. 

407 ..727-100's were manufactured. 164 had the system with 63 getting upgraded. that's 227 minus 407 is 180 without the system..

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A stew or a mechanic from the 70's working at NWO is needed to verify if the planes had this system. NWO is documented in the 302's explaining the placard location. they would know but it's odd they just don't say the placard was right by the controls in the stairs vs by the rear door. Boeing does confirm the decal is from the stairwell...a lot of the video's we see are no longer in service Commercially and privately owned. the decals are missing, possibly the emergency system removed etc. 

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9 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The Hicks placard would not fit on the emergency panel and would have two holes in it...this is now a private luxury jet. 

407 ..727-100's were manufactured. 164 had the system with 63 getting upgraded. that's 227 minus 407 is 180 without the system..

We don't know where the 63 upgrade kits went to.

407 passenger only.. but 571 total.

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3 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

A stew or a mechanic from the 70's working at NWO is needed to verify if the planes had this system. NWO is documented in the 302's explaining the placard location. they would know but it's odd they just don't say the placard was right by the controls in the stairs vs by the rear door. Boeing does confirm the decal is from the stairwell...a lot of the video's we see are no longer in service Commercially and privately owned. the decals are missing, possibly the emergency system removed etc. 

The NWA 727-100 safety card would indicate it..

another,, decals don't match Hicks..

 

Hicks also states "open access door", this system instructions are to "remove" access door and break flange

 

727controldooroutline.jpg.1e96049819c8b4dc5b24eb09b1f571f8.jpg

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(edited)

As mentioned, these planes are no longer in service and show missing parts. most of the wall is missing in this photo above. each airline is different. while Continental airline crews didn't know about the system doesn't imply NWO didn't or that it had these placards. the safety card is not a placard location card. even with the photo I provided a while back showing the door to the normal stairs open does credit the fact that the placard is not below or beside the emergency panel or we would see it. only above the panel is blocked. it's not uncommon to have multiple placards. the safety card could of been the same card prior to adding a placard...

emlarged.png

Edited by mrshutter45

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(edited)

Hicks decal doesn't exactly match either system.. 727-100

Main system.. open access panel and push control lever outward.. Not even close

Optional system.. remove panel, break flange and pull red handle.. Close

 

We need to know which model and 727 variant that decal is used on.. there are many different emergency airstair release decals for 727's..

 

The safety card may tell us if NWA 727's had the optional emergency release system not the placard itself..

Edited by FLYJACK

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54 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The safety card may tell us if NWA 727's had the optional emergency release system not the placard itself..

It's not a placard location card. and it does imply not all the planes they have with stairs had this system...it doesn't show markings on either surface on the card. it's explaining the action. 

The blueprints would be the opposite. they show where the placards are placed but don't explain how to use the system. 

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6 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

It's not a placard location card. and it does imply not all the planes they have with stairs had this system...it doesn't show markings on either surface on the card. it's explaining the action. 

The blueprints would be the opposite. they show where the placards are placed but don't explain how to use the system. 

Is there an echo in here.. I said that it doesn't show the Placard..

Some airlines 727-100 safety cards don't show the optional emergency system,

The NW Orient safety card will indicate whether their 727's had that system.

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Eric Ulis wrote..

"I have no issue with the wording. It is a door whether it's on a hinge or not.

Nonetheless, Boeing verified this placard described the use of the emergency airstair release behind the two-hole door/panel."

 

They did? Boeing only described it as being near the aft door.. 

Is Eric exaggerating again or did Boeing actually verify that?

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The FBI had more info and access to resources then than we do now,, publicly for some reason they did not determine or conclude the Hicks placard came from Cooper. They immediately walked back the Sheriff's assertions.

 

There are only two possibilities.

The Hicks placard can't be confirmed from Cooper.

or...

The FBI knows it came from Cooper and they are lying.

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