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(edited)
6 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

What's the claim here. Cossey packed a 25 year old chute into the container or did the FBI put the stamp of 1946 on the chute? 

No on the stamp. 

Putting an old C-9 into a container and selling it used, is not unheard of. Questioning the Seattle FBI's rather lame 'explanation' and 'investigation' into the Amboy chute is perfectly reasonable, considering the circumstances. It would be about the same as selling a used chute today that was originally manufactured in 1994 or so. No, I don't necessarily see a problem with the age. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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6 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Robert, how would you be speaking for him if he says it in an email? 

As mentioned above. which conspiracy can we use. Cossey packed a 25 year old chute or the FBI put the stamp on the chute? how will it fit into being Cooper's chute? 

I didn't say there was a conspiracy. I said the FBI did a piss-poor job investigating the Amboy chute, to paraphrase Bruce Willis (Armageddon). There may be evidence the FBI did figure out that the chute might have belonged to Cooper, though. And that this might motivate them not only to refuse to confirm that, but then it WOULD actually qualify as evidence...as they are claiming today. 

By the way...it only took me two minutes to find a C-9 already packed and dating from 1951...and certified as recently as 2006. Guess they must be tough chutes or something. That's 55 years since manufacture. You can buy it for $399 plus the shipping. B|

Why do you keep asking me to publicly post Tom Kaye's messages to me? You want to know what he said on this issue or that, why don't you just ask him? You said you were going to do that. So DO that. 

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(edited)

I don't think you are being honest about it. that's why. you are claiming he was denied. I showed his mail. you claim to have an email stating different and refuse to post it. you post everyone else's emails? we have a thing called PM? why do I have to do your work or expect an answer from Tom minutes after a comment? 

you say no on the stamp that Cossey would of seen. so, we are now saying a respected rigger, regardless of what you think about him put an old chute marked 1946 into a container....some kids found it and the same guy who packed the chute reported it as a silk chute 34 feet....but it's not a conspiracy? did he post that in the packing card or mention it like he did the dummy chute? was it a Pioneer chute. 26, 28 feet. you seem to know? I like to think Cossey knew what he was talking about. I seriously doubt they overlooked the size or other obvious factors. the stamp isn't consistent with a personnel chute. I found a cargo chute with the same markings and showed it many times over. 

Also, what exactly transpired after Cossey made the 10 second statement. did he "dump" it back into the car or do anything else. what did Carr do while he was at Cossey's. nothing happened past the 10 seconds? 

Edited by mrshutter45

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You doubt this, you doubt that. 

This is what I do NOT doubt:  That Cossey not only lied to a reporter the same week they brought him the chute for examination, almost getting the guy fired, but he went public all over several media that HIS reason for dismissing the chute was because he said it was made of silk, not nylon, and the ones provided to Cooper were nylon. 

You cannot believe an investigation, or even the word of someone on such a large subject...when they start out with a big lie. Leave Tom Kaye out of this. His team was refused access to both the chute and the location it was found. If they were granted access there would be no doubt...and we wouldn't be here now. 

You have made around ten posts defending the investigation of that chute, but most of them have been directed at me...mostly because I won't put up someone else's emails in public. If I did that to people (officials don't count since they know they are going on the record) I wouldn't have the trust of most of the people on my email list very long. I'm not in the habit of making folks messages public without a real good reason. You could easily verify by contacting TK on your own. 

Do you believe that Cossey was being truthful, or gave an 'expert' opinion when he claimed the Amboy chute was silk, and that's the reason he dismissed it? We've been down this road before, you know. And you have refused to take a stand. That is the difference between us. When I hear an obvious lie that has to do with one of the biggest finds of the Cooper case, since it could establish that Cooper survived his jump...I am going to question things. What I really question is why the Seattle FBI went along with a ridiculous statement like that from Cossey, and refused access to the chute to any other qualified experts. They have ADMITTED that already. 

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17 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

This is what I do NOT doubt:  That Cossey not only lied to a reporter the same week they brought him the chute for examination, almost getting the guy fired

April fools joke, wasn't it? that's not lying...

I'm still waiting for the email proof surrounding Mr. Kaye. seems to be rather hard to even PM the proof? glad I didn't take it as truth. could of been fired for a such a lie, right? 

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(edited)
39 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You cannot believe an investigation, or even the word of someone on such a large subject...when they start out with a big lie. Leave Tom Kaye out of this. His team was refused access to both the chute and the location it was found. If they were granted access there would be no doubt...and we wouldn't be here now.

That is not true at all Robert. you won't even accept Tom's word....

We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed

Note the word "we" that means all of them that were there....is Tom a liar now too? 

I have contacted Tom. it's right above for all to see. I have asked him several times since 2014. I got the same answer. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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1 minute ago, mrshutter45 said:

That is not true at all Robert. you won't even accept Tom's word....

We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed

Note the word "we" that means all of them that were there....is Tom a liar now too? 

Stop putting words into my mouth. I have the greatest respect for Tom Kaye and his Sleuths team. Always have, always will. They are listed as a Recommended Resource on AB of Seattle's DB Cooper Info Page. They have been there for years. 

Tom has said in messages that yes...they wanted to look at the chute. That they wanted to be allowed to do further research in the area the chute was discovered. Feel free to ask him yourself. 

You're just upset I won't publish his emails. You could easily ask him these questions yourself. That's what good investigators do. They verify with the original source. Do you need his email address? I can provide it for you, but NOT HIS EMAILS themselves, unless he tells me it is okay. 

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Robert, it's your own words, not mine. you are making the claim that goes against what Tom Kaye told me? your failure to prove it tells me he never made the claim. you have to show the burden of proof and not me. I've shown the proof. I'm not upset about anything. it's more towards you asking Tom for permission. it's your claim. prove it!

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(edited)

Why don't you just ask Tom yourself? You've gone on so long about this subject that it is difficult for me to tell what exactly you think I got wrong. That his group wanted to examine the Amboy chute? Of course they did. That they wanted permission to look around the area where it was found? Of course they did. 

You ignored Kaye's statements on his website saying that he thinks the Amboy chute is important. Why do you think he believes that? Because his team wasn't interested? 

Quote

'The research team has a standing offer with the FBI to return to Amboy and excavate the location where it was discovered...'

The Sleuths website does not specifically state that they asked to see the chute clear back in 2011, but it is obvious they had an interest in examining it, and also the area where it was found. And I have asked Kaye at least once if he ever asked to look at the chute.

You are splitting hairs, and I have already told you how to get to the bottom of things...just ask him if his team would gladly examine the chute today if offered, and if they would be interested in checking out the location where it was discovered. I am sure he would say YES on behalf of the Sleuths team. Why wouldn't they? It's obvious he has (or had) a definite interest in it. He doesn't buy the silk story by Cossey either. 

EDIT: Tell you what I will do. I will send a short message to Tom asking him his current standing on the Amboy chute. It's been two years since I discussed this issue with him. That should settle all your questions. If he gives me permission to post his answers, I will do so...and he probably won't mind...but I have to get his permission first. I think that's fair enough. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

UPDATE:  I asked Tom three questions regarding the Amboy chute. I think his answer should satisfy you, and yes I have permission to post the actual email. Hopefully, his answer will satisfy your questions. Click on the image to see it full size. 

 

TKchutemessage.jpg

Try to understand. I am not Bruce Smith. When people send me personal messages, I don't make them public without their permission. Because they are personal messages. 

It's not that I don't trust certain folks in Cooperland. It's just that I don't trust certain folks in Cooperland. B|

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Just now, mrshutter45 said:

You didn't ask directly about the questions. you threw in the "or later" . should of be a direct question to when he was at Seattle and not later. what is the date of the email? 

You are STILL not satisfied? LOL stop splitting hairs. You wanted answers, I took the time and trouble (and so did Tom, and its an hour later where he lives) and you are still complaining. Stop complaining please. You asked, you got. Any further questions about the Amboy chute that concern Tom or his Sleuths team...you go to Tom and ask them yourself. I have my own opinions on the chute, and I have already stated them at length. 

By the way...it's only an April Fool's joke by Cossey and the reporter if Cossey calls the reporter back and TELLS the reporter it is a joke. As it happened, the reporter told Cossey he was going with that story and Cossey allowed it. The reporter was almost fired from his job. The only reason he wasn't is because the reporter's boss decided to call Cossey back to verify...and luckily Cossey was at home...otherwise they were running with the story and the reporter would have been fired. 

That goes beyond a simple joke.

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On 1/13/2014 1:33 AM, clourim wrote:
Hi Tom, I was wondering while you were working with the FBI did they deny you access to the Amboy chute, or was it thrown away since they didn't consider it Cooper evidence? or did you not even bother with it? Robert Blevins is claiming you had access to everything but the chute.
 
 
Thanks
Dave Brown
 
I as direct with the question..no "or later" involved. 

 

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(edited)
13 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:
On 1/13/2014 1:33 AM, clourim wrote:
Hi Tom, I was wondering while you were working with the FBI did they deny you access to the Amboy chute, or was it thrown away since they didn't consider it Cooper evidence? or did you not even bother with it? Robert Blevins is claiming you had access to everything but the chute.
 
Thanks
Dave Brown
 
I as direct with the question..no "or later" involved. 

 

You do as you wish. I don't think Tom knows the final disposition of the Amboy chute, though. No one does. 

My personal opinion is that you haven't been looking for the answers you claim to seek. You are simply playing 'gotcha' with people and splitting hairs. I never said Tom 'had access to everything but the chute'. I said they wanted to LOOK at the chute. Big difference.

I haven't the slightest idea what the Sleuths team had access to in Seattle as far as evidence, except for the bills, the tie, and the pink parachute. How would I know those things? I mentioned that the Sleuths wanted to look at the chute, as well as the place it was found. Tom verified those things. 

Now you are being deceptive with him because you are angry that he answered my questions honestly. And I believe that anyone reading this series of posts will come to the same conclusion. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Plenty of times you made the statement of them having access to everything but the chute. that was part of your argument over the years. it was always something like "Tom Kaye had access to the evidence at Seattle but was denied access to the Amboy chute. 

where am I being deceptive?  

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5 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Plenty of times you made the statement of them having access to everything but the chute. that was part of your argument over the years. it was always something like "Tom Kaye had access to the evidence at Seattle but was denied access to the Amboy chute. 

where am I being deceptive?  

Well, of course I said that the team had access to the evidence in Seattle...but were denied access to the Amboy chute. Because that's exactly what happened. You are splitting hairs, and playing 'gotcha' with me. By deceptive I mean the manner of your email, which I think won't impress Tom much. You turned a discussion about a parachute where both the main witness (Cossey) lied about its nature...and the FBI's hapless investigation into that chute...into a personal issue. 

Sorry I was right, but even a stopped clock is correct twice a day. B| See if I ever bother taking the time to clarify an issue with others for you again. Next time I will just send you to the source and if you want to dispute something, you can do your own legwork. I still see your whole series of posts not as a legitimate inquiry, but more of a 'I bet I can prove Robert wrong on something' move. I think pretty much everyone else will see it the same way. When you bring questions to me, it always seems like that's your main aim...not to actually know the truth on something. In the event I was actually right, that would be counterproductive to your real motive for asking the question in the first place. 

Tom has his views on the Amboy chute. I have mine. Mine admittedly...are a bit more harsh when it comes to the Seattle FBI's investigation, as well as Cossey's explanation about it. I truly believe the Sleuths should have been allowed to see it. Why not? By 2011 the FBI had written it off anyway? What was the problem? 

I don't believe a word of it. Silk? And that was his reason for dismissing it? No mention of size, nature, the fabric, absolutely nothing. Just a whitewash story full of baloney and poor investigating from top to bottom. The FBI was ready to believe anything Cossey told them, so they did. Or they didn't bother checking further, or didn't care. Who knows? 

You may wonder whether the Seattle FBI still has that chute in their possession. My last inquiry with them was replied with:  "It's evidence in an ongoing case..."  That should tell you something. 

Here's a good FOIA request for you:  Ask to see the files that were created after they discovered the chute. 

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4 minutes ago, TomKaye said:

Answer a couple of questions and create a controversy. Ok I am here, ask away. You guys can post my emails.

 

PS talking to some producers that might spend some serious dollars on the case (fingers crossed).

Tom Kaye

Well, that's the best news I've heard all day. (*smiles*) Beats arguing this or that. Any public interest in the case is always a good thing. I'm told I will *finally* get an announcement about the first dramatic feature film ever planned on the Cooper hijacking, and prior to Christmas. I sure hope so. I have been under a tough confidentiality agreement since about January 2017, and frankly I am tired of it. They want to release in 2021 for obvious reasons. My thought is either do it, or let me out of it. I like the check each year, but it has been stressful sometimes. 

Good luck with the producers. 

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Here is what Tom emailed me just a while ago....

We didn’t see the chute when we were there on the first trip with Larry Carr. It was not an issue at that time so we had no interest and didn’t ask.

When the controversy showed up, we asked Larry Carr about getting the info on where it was found and we were denied because he said it was a junk yard.

When we went to Seattle again and met with Curtis in person we asked if we could test the chute to see if it was nylon and we were turned down.

 

So yes both answers were right.

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(edited)

Much ado about nothing. Okay, everyone was right on this subject. The FBI is still telling everyone they can't discuss the chute because it's evidence. Thought it wasn't. Someone is keeping secrets about an item they allegedly dismissed what...eleven years ago now? 

The main thing I care about lately is for those movie companies to make their announcement so I can be let out of that confidentiality agreement. It's been in place for nearly three years now, and I try to keep the faith about it and play it straight with them. It is hard sometimes. Message I got from them earlier this month said I should expect an announcement soon. Well, I certainly hope so. 

No FOIA requests for me. I don't mind discussing the case, hosting the sites at Quora and WordPress etc, but my active investigation into the Cooper case is closed. We even have a movie coming, and I'm pretty sure on that now. I have gone above and beyond and that's enough, sometimes against the greatest of odds...and a fair amount of negativity. 

But I've always been a stubborn sort anyway. B| After all this Cooper stuff is over I'll probably go back to sci-fi. And wonder why I ever got involved in the first place, or sent that original message to Skipp Porteous. Funny how things turn out sometimes. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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7 hours ago, TomKaye said:

Answer a couple of questions and create a controversy. Ok I am here, ask away. You guys can post my emails.

 

PS talking to some producers that might spend some serious dollars on the case (fingers crossed).

Tom Kaye

Tom,,

Particle pattern on the tie..

The tie has what appears to be particle concentrations in horizontal lines on the front of the tie and if you look close on the front of the back piece of the tie..

Hard to imagine those patterns of particles deposited while the tie was worn.

That suggests the tie was rubbed across a sharp/narrow object.. as if it were used to wipe something or it was stored folded laying on the particles..

The control tie particle distribution looked completely random, the cooper tie was not. 

The tie was manufactured/sold around 1964. It had lots of time and environments to collect those particles. It seems unlikely they all came from one environment.

 

 

SampleSites_lrg.jpg

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