DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 654]

15 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Indeed. Perhaps Cossey was thinking of olive drab when he said "sage green"? Obviously he was clearly off on the harness color because you can't confuse sage green for tan. 

My take on Cossey's behavior in those early days is that he didn't exactly remember the chutes vividly and may have also been lazy about his record keeping, thus his evasiveness about the serial numbers.  

He seems to me like an ADHD type of individual who just wasn't very well organized and in lieu of admitting that he just didn't remember he would instead just make things up and embellish. 

It is more than that, SN 60-9707 was also a Pioneer,,  Cossey distinguished his chute from the Pioneer as an NB6/8.. In interviews he claimed his chutes were used and picked up from Issaquah.. (told Carr they came from his home)

What I think happened was Cossey was contacted at home about obtaining all 4 chutes and said to pick all of them up from Issaquah,, before Emrich got them they had acquired the two backs from Hayden. Emrich then only sent the fronts but Cossey didn't know that.

Cossey was contacted and told a tan Pioneer back chute was left on the plane.. he assumed the missing chute was his Sage/Sage green taken from Issaquah.. He was wrong..  he got the colour wrong and both of Hayden's chutes were Pioneers.. Cossey knew he was wrong the next day but never corrected his error. 

He never supplied his records but claimed he did and the FBI never caught on.

Edited December 7, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 461]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Cossey was contacted and told a tan Pioneer back chute was left on the plane.. he assumed the missing chute was his Sage/Sage green taken from Issaquah.. He was wrong..  he got the colour wrong and both of Hayden's chutes were Pioneers.. Cossey knew he was wrong the next day but never corrected his error. 

 

That checks out. 

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I don't see Cooper as a skydiver, but the narrative for a while was that there was no way he was a skydiver because he chose the military chute and a skydiver would have chosen the civilian one. That term "luxury" has been burned in my brain for years, but lately I'm sensing that it simply was not luxury.  So one of the reasons we discounted skydivers may not be a valid reason anymore.  I still think there are other reasons though that indicate he was not a skydiver to the level of a Sheridan Peterson.

Right, I always thought that chute choice argument was a stretch,, 

we now know that the chutes were basically the same but the one Cooper took was 3 years newer.. and he checked the cards.

The evidence supports military experience vs a skydiver, though he wasn't a badass paratrooper like Braden..

[FLYJACK 654]

Cossey explains his chute,, never mentions moving the handle from left to right,, 

but Cooper didn't use Cossey's chute he used Hayden's Pioneer 60-9707

 

[olemisscub 461]

This is a hell of a front page. Hoover, Apollo Mission, Vietnam, and Cooper.

 

[olemisscub 461]

2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I don't see Cooper as a skydiver, but the narrative for a while was that there was no way he was a skydiver because he chose the military chute and a skydiver would have chosen the civilian one. That term "luxury" has been burned in my brain for years, but lately I'm sensing that it simply was not luxury.  So one of the reasons we discounted skydivers may not be a valid reason anymore.  I still think there are other reasons though that indicate he was not a skydiver to the level of a Sheridan Peterson.

The only two copycats who were skydivers brought their own rigs. I talked to Meltzer about this the other day and he agreed that there is no way in hell he or any other skydiver would do such a thing without having their own chute.

[georger 194]

7 hours ago, olemisscub said:

The only two copycats who were skydivers brought their own rigs. I talked to Meltzer about this the other day and he agreed that there is no way in hell he or any other skydiver would do such a thing without having their own chute.

If I recall, the terms Cooper used in his chute demand were more military terms vs skydiver community terms. The FBI conducted an intense search of skydiver communities. The lack of prints for Cooper made a search of military records, useless  What Meltzer would do vs what Cooper did, arent even comparable imho. How many known skydivers have hijacked planes? Any? Was McCoy a "skydiver" - part of the skydiver hobby community ? No. People like to compare Cooper with McCoy - why? I dont think they are even comparable, or, we have no basis for comparing them for the simple reason we dont know who and what Cooper was! One might as well compare scooters with Cadillacs. Both have a motor and wheels - what does that get us? They arent in the same class - we dont even know what class Cooper is part of! We dont know what class his actions and words fit into! People can make comparisons but what has that exercise ever got us? Nothing.       

Edited December 8, 2022 by georger

[The Cooper Vortex 73]

New episode out now! DB Cooper Vanished with Chris Williamson  

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-vanished-chris-williamson/

 

[georger 194]

The idea that Cooper was part of some skydiver community has never borne fruit. Did Cooper ever say or do anything that tied him to sky divers? On the other hand Cooper did say he had a grudge. That is personal - political. Cooper told Tina Minnesota was 'nice land' ?  Evidently Cooper had visited MN ?  Did he visit Wisconsin?  If the FBI had searched  political organisations in Minnesota or Wisconsin, especially political groups affiliated with anti Vietnam activities like the SDS .... would they have turned Cooper up there? 

It seems reasonable to search for people where people say they have been ?  Tina was probing for personal information about the hijacker and she snagged one lead.    

* Did Tina snag more!?  Things redacted or missing ?  Speculate away. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by georger

[JAGdb 68]

I tend to agree with most of the sentiment here that the hijacker had primarily military jump experience as opposed to recreational based jump experience only.

Can we read or deduce anything else into how he looked "comfortable" putting on a chute that was a pilot bail out rig ?

If he was a recreational sky diver only, would someone fitting that profile be comfortable putting on that bail out rig so easily versus a civilian luxury rig ?  Is there anything different when it comes to putting on a pilot bail out rig versus a civilian "luxury" rig or is it basically the same ?  Put another way, if you never used one before, and were only familiar with luxury civilian rigs, would you be confused at all with putting this type of rig on ?

Also, would only someone with pilot experience be comfortable with it ?  i.e. would regular paratroopers have used the same type of rig on those static line jumps ?

 

[FLYJACK 654]

13 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

New episode out now! DB Cooper Vanished with Chris Williamson  

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-vanished-chris-williamson/

 

TBH,, I am finding these podcast's increasingly frustrating.. the Reca/Peca Vern jones one was such a softball session...  The Reca/Peca narrative is a disaster. It doesn't fit the evidence and relies on unreliable and unrealistic claims manufactured by Carl and Reca.. IMO it is a hoax.. and a distraction for the case. 

Vern rolled over on his back and Darren patted his belly.. these guys are rarely asked the tough questions..

 

For this episode, 

Lyle walked back his claims about the guy at Elsinore.. There is no connection to Cooper. Lyle embellished it for publicity then walked it back.. it is in the FBI files. He later claimed that the guy probably read about the case in the media.. classic CYA. Elsinore is a red herring.

Corcoran jump boots,, where did that come from.. you guys talk about it as if it was a fact. It isn't.

Tina said laceless and ankle high, not loafers,, loafers came from Himmelsbach's speculation in his book and the media. There were no loafers. Somehow laceless got morphed into loafers.

Cooper was described as swarthy/olive/latin/dark/one quarter MEX/NATIVE, back then Latino/Hispanic terminology wasn't used yet, they even redid the sketch with primary witnesses to better depict this..  Cooper had these characteristics.. basic qualifications for any suspect. BTW, "olive" is a subset of swarthy and not a tan.. Anybody that discounts this characteristic for Cooper should pack it up and go to the Zodiac case. It is almost universally corroborated by witnesses. 

Gregory's description was almost entirely corroborated by other witnesses.. it wasn't an outlier.. Russet is brown, Tina also said brown suit. Latin(o) is virtually synonymous to one quarter MEX/NATIVE.. Gregory is very credible. People discounted him early on because he said he was last on the plane and closest to Cooper, 4 seats away.. he actually was the last to leave and closest to Cooper after Mitchell moved forward. He knew Cooper was suspicious and took a good look at him when he left.. Mitchell only noticed him because the stew was paying attention to him.

Braden was not Cooper, there is no evidence for him to be Cooper. He was a badass, he looked like a badass, he had dimples thin hair and a very unique look.. He didn't match Cooper's description or profile,, Cooper was not a badass. Braden is a very unique character but that doesn't make him Cooper, it eliminates him.

The current DNA sample from the tie is useless.. we need a new analysis with new tech if that is even possible now with the caveat that it is not even certain Cooper was the one wearing the tie for the 7 years prior to the hijacking.

As time goes by you'd expect the case to become more fine tuned but it seems the opposite is happening.. the public narrative isn't advancing it is becoming polluted with misinformation and weak or ridiculous suspects with assumptions and conjecture presented as fact.. this discredits the Cooper case as people are inundated with more and more bad information.. 

The case is going backwards,, I would never do Darren's show with such softball questions, it doesn't help anyone.. it gives oxygen to bad thinking.

The Cooper case public discourse is becoming a waste of time. Two steps forward five steps back, the Vortex boogie..

Advice,, these softball interviews are counter productive,, there are ways to ask the tough questions everybody wants asked without being offensive.

 

[The Cooper Vortex 73]

5 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

TBH,, I am finding these podcast's increasingly frustrating.. .

The case is going backwards,, I would never do Darren's show with such softball questions, it doesn't help anyone.. it gives oxygen to bad thinking.

Advice,, these softball interviews are counter productive,, there are ways to ask the tough questions everybody wants asked without being offensive.

 

I’d like to defend myself here. 
 

The point of my show isn’t to solve the case or to prove anyone right or wrong. The point is to present every theory and suspect possible, and let the listener decide who is right, who is wrong, who is onto something, and who is crazy. 
 

With that in mind, of course it’s going to a much different interview with the Reca crew than it would be for Marty or Dave. Some people want to be challenged in the interview, and others do not. I try to navigate that as best as I can. 
 

You’re well aware I’d love to have you on the show Flyjack, and I hope that you will come on soon. Everyone would love it, and I promise to play hardball with you. 
 

PS - Thanks for the 1.5x speed tip on the recent Grimerica podcast. Totally necessary. 

[olemisscub 461]

35 minutes ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

 

You’re well aware I’d love to have you on the show Flyjack, and I hope that you will come on soon. Everyone would love it, and I promise to play hardball with you. 

Seconded. It would give some of us the opportunity to make a lengthy post calling out everything you said wrong or that we disagree with when you are recorded speaking about Cooper for 3 hours straight. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 461]

58 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Lyle walked back his claims about the guy at Elsinore.. There is no connection to Cooper. Lyle embellished it for publicity then walked it back.. it is in the FBI files. He later claimed that the guy probably read about the case in the media.. classic CYA. Elsinore is a red herring.

 

I'm very, very confused why some people in the Braden camp push Elsinore so much. Why in the absolute holy hell would Ted B. Braden need to ask skydiving advice from ANYONE on the planet in 1971?

[olemisscub 461]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Gregory's description was almost entirely corroborated by other witnesses.. it wasn't an outlier.. Russet is brown, Tina also said brown suit. Latin(o) is virtually synonymous to one quarter MEX/NATIVE.. Gregory is very credible. People discounted him early on because he said he was last on the plane and closest to Cooper, 4 seats away.. he actually was the last to leave and closest to Cooper after Mitchell moved forward. He knew Cooper was suspicious and took a good look at him when he left.. Mitchell only noticed him because the stew was paying attention to him.

Braden was not Cooper, there is no evidence for him to be Cooper. He was a badass, he looked like a badass, he had dimples thin hair and a very unique look.. He didn't match Cooper's description or profile,, Cooper was not a badass. Braden is a very unique character but that doesn't make him Cooper, it eliminates him.

 

fwiw I've been trying to verify some of the details in Tosaw's narrative of the actual skyjacking since a good bit of it hasn't yet appeared in 302 releases. The two packing cards found in the single chute at Reno certainly seem to validate the packing cards bit in Tosaw. So I'm trying to figure out ways to validate some of the other stuff he says. Without leading the witness, I asked Mitchell at breakfast one morning about when he was moved up toward the front and he said it was shortly before they descended. He said Tina asked him to move up but because he had his books spread out he didn't want to be bothered, so he refused. He continued, saying that much later a dark haired stewardess came back and basically begged him to move up, so he did. This stew was likely Flo and her testimony corroborates this: "she remained in the cockpit until shortly before the plane landed. She said that the pilot instructed her to go to the tourist section and make sure that no one walked back in the area where the hijacker was sitting." So she probably walks back there to do as she was told and sees Bill still in the very back. So she asks him very nicely to move up, and he begrudgingly complies. Precisely what Bill told me is what is in the Tosaw narrative. So I think that is credible. 

How long was Mitchell closer to Cooper than Gregory? I don't think we can know that. 

And yes, I'm in agreement about Braden. It's a small detail, but something that really makes me second guess Braden is how concerned Cooper was about the Air Marshals. We get him being express an almost timid concern about the Air Marshals from both Tina and Alice. I just don't see Braden vocally expressing those concerns, if he even would have had them to begin with.

[JAGdb 68]

33 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I'm very, very confused why some people in the Braden camp push Elsinore so much. Why in the absolute holy hell would Ted B. Braden need to ask skydiving advice from ANYONE on the planet in 1971?

Braden is a better suspect than many of the others.  There was a time when I thought Cooper may have been special forces, particularly because of his calm/confident demeanor and execution.  But I have kind changed my mind over time.  While Cooper did a solid overall job in terms of  pulling this off, he made some mistakes that he got away with that would make me thing Braden/SFs might not have.

One of the bigger mistakes, I believe while on the ground at SeaTac, after getting the money/chutes, there was some point where he allowed himself to be abandoned on the plan with no "collateral" or hedge against authorities.  I think Tina could have left the plane with the pilots, the other two stewardesses were already off.   That seems like a major blunder.  SFs can make mistakes too, but this one just sort of pushes me to a non Braden type guy.

Edited December 8, 2022 by JAGdb

[FLYJACK 654]

46 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Seconded. It would give some of us the opportunity to make a lengthy post calling out everything you said wrong or that we disagree with when you are recorded speaking about Cooper for 3 hours straight. 

Nonsense, you think a passive aggressive personal jab is meaningful. 

Did you actually read what I said,, I said I would WANT tough questions.

I am not out publicly pushing anything for very good reasons, some know the reasons. If and when I am able to I expect tough questions, that is my point. You have tried to criticize what I do post and largely failed..

My point is, IMO, the case is not advancing, it is going backwards with terrible suspects and misinformation getting oxygen.. you know I am right.

Darren is a big boy he can handle some criticism.. he can do what he wants but IMO these shows need tougher analysis.. 

Maybe I will have to do my own show, this thing is losing its integrity.

 

[DWeber 2]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

TBH,, I am finding these podcast's increasingly frustrating.. the Reca/Peca Vern jones one was such a softball session...  The Reca/Peca narrative is a disaster. It doesn't fit the evidence and relies on unreliable and unrealistic claims manufactured by Carl and Reca.. IMO it is a hoax.. and a distraction for the case. 

Vern rolled over on his back and Darren patted his belly.. these guys are rarely asked the tough questions..

 

For this episode, 

Lyle walked back his claims about the guy at Elsinore.. There is no connection to Cooper. Lyle embellished it for publicity then walked it back.. it is in the FBI files. He later claimed that the guy probably read about the case in the media.. classic CYA. Elsinore is a red herring.

Corcoran jump boots,, where did that come from.. you guys talk about it as if it was a fact. It isn't.

Tina said laceless and ankle high, not loafers,, loafers came from Himmelsbach's speculation in his book and the media. There were no loafers. Somehow laceless got morphed into loafers.

Cooper was described as swarthy/olive/latin/dark/one quarter MEX/NATIVE, back then Latino/Hispanic terminology wasn't used yet, they even redid the sketch with primary witnesses to better depict this..  Cooper had these characteristics.. basic qualifications for any suspect. BTW, "olive" is a subset of swarthy and not a tan.. Anybody that discounts this characteristic for Cooper should pack it up and go to the Zodiac case. It is almost universally corroborated by witnesses. 

Gregory's description was almost entirely corroborated by other witnesses.. it wasn't an outlier.. Russet is brown, Tina also said brown suit. Latin(o) is virtually synonymous to one quarter MEX/NATIVE.. Gregory is very credible. People discounted him early on because he said he was last on the plane and closest to Cooper, 4 seats away.. he actually was the last to leave and closest to Cooper after Mitchell moved forward. He knew Cooper was suspicious and took a good look at him when he left.. Mitchell only noticed him because the stew was paying attention to him.

Braden was not Cooper, there is no evidence for him to be Cooper. He was a badass, he looked like a badass, he had dimples thin hair and a very unique look.. He didn't match Cooper's description or profile,, Cooper was not a badass. Braden is a very unique character but that doesn't make him Cooper, it eliminates him.

The current DNA sample from the tie is useless.. we need a new analysis with new tech if that is even possible now with the caveat that it is not even certain Cooper was the one wearing the tie for the 7 years prior to the hijacking.

As time goes by you'd expect the case to become more fine tuned but it seems the opposite is happening.. the public narrative isn't advancing it is becoming polluted with misinformation and weak or ridiculous suspects with assumptions and conjecture presented as fact.. this discredits the Cooper case as people are inundated with more and more bad information.. 

The case is going backwards,, I would never do Darren's show with such softball questions, it doesn't help anyone.. it gives oxygen to bad thinking.

The Cooper case public discourse is becoming a waste of time. Two steps forward five steps back, the Vortex boogie..

Advice,, these softball interviews are counter productive,, there are ways to ask the tough questions everybody wants asked without being offensive.

 

There is a 302 where Gregory is shown a picture of the highjacker from Honduras and he states it does not resemble Cooper in any way 

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

I’d like to defend myself here. 
 

The point of my show isn’t to solve the case or to prove anyone right or wrong. The point is to present every theory and suspect possible, and let the listener decide who is right, who is wrong, who is onto something, and who is crazy. 
 

With that in mind, of course it’s going to a much different interview with the Reca crew than it would be for Marty or Dave. Some people want to be challenged in the interview, and others do not. I try to navigate that as best as I can. 
 

You’re well aware I’d love to have you on the show Flyjack, and I hope that you will come on soon. Everyone would love it, and I promise to play hardball with you. 
 

PS - Thanks for the 1.5x speed tip on the recent Grimerica podcast. Totally necessary. 

I get that but the medium is the message,, just having people on your podcast gives them a degree credibility with the public... Listeners are being inundated with misinformation, weak and ridiculous suspects.. most claims just go unchallenged. The truth only emerges from a critical analysis, I don't hear that.. agreeing with everything, throwing softballs and not challenging doesn't allow the listener access or uncover the information necessary to think critically..

I can't do the show, if you want to know why contact me privately.

[FLYJACK 654]

36 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

Braden is a better suspect than many of the others.  There was a time when I thought Cooper may have been special forces, particularly because of his calm/confident demeanor and execution.  But I have kind changed my mind over time.  While Cooper did a solid overall job in terms of  pulling this off, he made some mistakes that he got away with that would make me thing Braden/SFs might not have.

One of the bigger mistakes, I believe while on the ground at SeaTac, after getting the money/chutes, there was some point where he allowed himself to be abandoned on the plan with no "collateral" or hedge against authorities.  I think Tina could have left the plane with the pilots, the other two stewardesses were already off.   That seems like a major blunder.  SFs can make mistakes too, but this one just sort of pushes me to a non Braden type guy.

Braden is better than many but he isn't Cooper.

[olemisscub 461]

20 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

You have tried to criticize what I do post and largely failed..

 

Coming from you I'll take that as a win! :-)

[FLYJACK 654]

39 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

fwiw I've been trying to verify some of the details in Tosaw's narrative of the actual skyjacking since a good bit of it hasn't yet appeared in 302 releases. The two packing cards found in the single chute at Reno certainly seem to validate the packing cards bit in Tosaw. So I'm trying to figure out ways to validate some of the other stuff he says. Without leading the witness, I asked Mitchell at breakfast one morning about when he was moved up toward the front and he said it was shortly before they descended. He said Tina asked him to move up but because he had his books spread out he didn't want to be bothered, so he refused. He continued, saying that much later a dark haired stewardess came back and basically begged him to move up, so he did. This stew was likely Flo and her testimony corroborates this: "she remained in the cockpit until shortly before the plane landed. She said that the pilot instructed her to go to the tourist section and make sure that no one walked back in the area where the hijacker was sitting." So she probably walks back there to do as she was told and sees Bill still in the very back. So she asks him very nicely to move up, and he begrudgingly complies. Precisely what Bill told me is what is in the Tosaw narrative. So I think that is credible. 

How long was Mitchell closer to Cooper than Gregory? I don't think we can know that. 

And yes, I'm in agreement about Braden. It's a small detail, but something that really makes me second guess Braden is how concerned Cooper was about the Air Marshals. We get him being express an almost timid concern about the Air Marshals from both Tina and Alice. I just don't see Braden vocally expressing those concerns, if he even would have had them to begin with.

 

Sounds accurate,, my point about Gregory goes back years, he was completely dismissed because he said he was the closest to Cooper and last on the plane.. people didn't understand that he was actually correct. He was the closest to Cooper after Mitchell moved up front and the last on the plane not the the last getting on the plane but the last ON the plane. Tina also corroborated a brown suit, others did say wavy hair.. he said marceled.. Latin and 1/4 MEX/NATIVE are close... Gregory also said Caucasian... his terminology may have differed slightly but the meanings are close.

Individual witnesses never get everything right, but when all the witness testimony including and beyond the sketches is taken into account we have a good profile for Cooper.

[olemisscub 461]

23 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

My point is, IMO, the case is not advancing, it is going backwards with terrible suspects and misinformation getting oxygen.. you know I am right.

 

Yes I know you're right, but I guess I have to ask how many people on the planet can ramble about the Cooper case for 3 hours and stick mostly to the known facts? A dozen? Less?

I think keeping the case alive in the public eye is critical. Getting into the case via misinformation is often times better than not getting into it at all. Smart people will adapt and recognize that the misinformation that originally got them into the case was incorrect and they'll start learning and getting into the correct minutiae of the case. Hell, it was misinformation-laden media that got most of us into the case with the Unsolved Mysteries or In Search Of episodes, etc. 

There are some really sharp people who have joined the case due to both of the dumb Rackstraw productions, the one in 2016 and the most recent Netflix show. Also, people can dislike Ulis all they want but the Facebook Group has been a great thing and has brought a lot of neat evidence to light. I'm also grateful to Ulis for doing the CooperCon thing. It's great to have event so we can "gather the tribe", as Bruce called it. 

I think Darren's podcast has the same effect. He gets between 10k to up to 20k listeners an episode. That's pretty awesome. 

Point is, keeping the case in the public eye is key to bringing new minds into the case and keeping the topic fresh in the public consciousness. 

It's too bad you aren't able to do Darren's show. You should start your own show as you've suggested. I can be your first guest, haha. 

[FLYJACK 654]

3 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Yes I know you're right, but I guess I have to ask how many people on the planet can ramble about the Cooper case for 3 hours and stick mostly to the known facts? A dozen? Less?

I think keeping the case alive in the public eye is critical. Getting into the case via misinformation is often times better than not getting into it at all. Smart people will adapt and recognize that the misinformation that originally got them into the case was incorrect and they'll start learning and getting into the correct minutiae of the case. Hell, it was misinformation-laden media that got most of us into the case with the Unsolved Mysteries or In Search Of episodes, etc. 

There are some really sharp people who have joined the case due to both of the dumb Rackstraw productions, the one in 2016 and the most recent Netflix show. Also, people can dislike Ulis all they want but the Facebook Group has been a great thing and has brought a lot of neat evidence to light. I'm also grateful to Ulis for doing the CooperCon thing. It's great to have event so we can "gather the tribe", as Bruce called it. 

I think Darren's podcast has the same effect. He gets between 10k to up to 20k listeners an episode. That's pretty awesome. 

Point is, keeping the case in the public eye is key to bringing new minds into the case and keeping the topic fresh in the public consciousness. 

It's too bad you aren't able to do Darren's show. You should start your own show as you've suggested. I can be your first guest, haha. 

I just think the softball shows have run their course and become detrimental to the case..

That Reca show did it for me.. Darren's format isn't progressing..

We need a deeper more critical analysis..  that is extremely tough to do on any forum...

[olemisscub 461]

Just now, FLYJACK said:

 

That Reca show did it for me.. 

.

I'm with you on the Reca business. It's openly and notoriously fraudulent IMO. I'm not a fan of the smugness and condescension that Jones has toward actual Cooper researchers either.