DB Cooper

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

20 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

So, you are claiming Vordahl doesn't look latin?? and Latin guys don't look Latin.. it is a bad pic.

This makes my case.. Cooper looked Latin.

No your opinion is that he doesn’t, I can see given his facial features and complexion how he could of easily been confused for a Latin/Mexican, Italian, Native American, or  Mediterranean. All which were used in the files. If you asked me to guess Vordahls ethnicity  I would of guessed one of the above. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Nicholas Broughton

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

33 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

You are the ones cherry picking.. it isn't one..

One said Mexican/Indian but more said Latin.. they are very similar and are consistent. Descent and blood means mixed race.. the FBI suggested investigating Mexican connections.. not Italian or Norwegian.

But, you guys make a grave error,, Gregory said White and 1/4 Mexican/Native because they aren't mutually exclusive. Back then there was no "Latino".. Latin American's were white/caucasian..

You guys are using a false premise to conclude that white meant NOT Latino, it didn't back then..

Even Hahneman was described as white, dark swarthy complexion, Latin...

I am following the evidence.. what the hell are you guys doing.

Gregory didn't even get Tina's hair color right. His 302 says a dark haired stew sat with Coop the whole time. The fbi did more then suggest looking into Mexican connections they actually did and came up with nothing. There weren’t that many Mexicans affiliated with skydiving, paratrooping, piloting, Air America/ SAT, Boeing, Ect and I have yet to run into any In the specialty metals industry. I think if cooper was Mexican he would of got on somebodies radar because like you said it’s one of the things that they were looking for. How do we know Gregory didn’t watch a movie with Kieth Larson in the days before who was a Norwegian actor that played Native Americans and that was his reference for how Native Americans look?

[olemisscub 464]

44 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

You argument is contradicting.

You claimed Cooper didn't have Latino/Mexican/Indian characteristics but now you claim Vordahl does..

I never said Cooper didn’t have those characteristics. I said you’re putting too much emphasis on that aspect of Cooper and demanding that a suspect must look like what YOU want “Latino/Mexican/Indian” to look like. 
 

Anyone I’ve talked to about Vordahl with for the past few months like Andrade or Bruce will attest that one of the things I liked about Vordahl was that I can potentially see in him what Gregory was seeing in Cooper when he was describing NA characteristics i.e. high cheekbones and wide forehead. 

[Coopericane 44]

 

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

It’s rough. Just a lot of cut and paste. I have a spreadsheet I was putting together. It may or may not ever get done. 
 

If someone has more 302s that I did not put in, let me know and I’ll cut and paste those.  

Does anyone know where the “piercing brown eyes” came from? It is definitely not in the 302s. 

Very neat... there's also this 302 on page 261 of part 11 where a passenger (Robert Gregory?) mentions briefly seeing Cooper without his glasses.

[FLYJACK 654]

33 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I never said Cooper didn’t have those characteristics. I said you’re putting too much emphasis on that aspect of Cooper and demanding that a suspect must look like what YOU want “Latino/Mexican/Indian” to look like. 
 

Anyone I’ve talked to about Vordahl with for the past few months like Andrade or Bruce will attest that one of the things I liked about Vordahl was that I can potentially see in him what Gregory was seeing in Cooper when he was describing NA characteristics i.e. high cheekbones and wide forehead. 

What do you mean too much emphasis, you make no sense. More than one witness saw those characteristics therefore we should see them in an image of "Cooper". Vordahl doesn't have those characteristics..

In the vid he looks like he might be Italian, sort of, but nobody looks at that image and says Latin/Mex/Indian.. that was my argument.

There was no "Latino" term used then, they used "Latin Appearance", not freakin Norwegian..

and Latin Americans were called white/caucasian.. that is a red herring.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

No your opinion is that he doesn’t, I can see given his facial features and complexion how he could of easily been confused for a latino, Italian, Native American, or  Mediterranean. All which were used in the files. If you asked me to guess Vordahls ethnicity  I would of guessed one of the above. 

You see what you want to see.

Vordahl does not look Latin/Mexican/Indian in those images.

You either go by the witnesses or you don't.. even the FBI said

"olive complexion, latin appearance"

There is a big difference between Native American and Italian..

[FLYJACK 654]

39 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Gregory didn't even get Tina's hair color right. His 302 says a dark haired stew sat with Coop the whole time. The fbi did more then suggest looking into Mexican connections they actually did and came up with nothing. There weren’t that many Mexicans affiliated with skydiving, paratrooping, piloting, Air America/ SAT, Boeing, Ect and I have yet to run into any In the specialty metals industry. I think if cooper was Mexican he would of got on somebodies radar because like you said it’s one of the things that they were looking for. How do we know Gregory didn’t watch a movie with Kieth Larson in the days before who was a Norwegian actor that played Native Americans and that was his reference for how Native Americans look?

In the files Gregory got two things wrong, Tina's hair colour and his seat row number, though he got the seat position right. The error may have been in the interview process or note taking.. there are lots of those in the files. Gregory's errors are insignificant and do not negate his testimony.. Why, because all of the rest of Gregory's testimony is corroborated by the other witnesses. Mitchell moved up and left Gregory the closest to Cooper and Gregory knew something was up. When he went to leave the plane he took a good look at Cooper from in front within 6-8 feet.. Mitchell never looked at Cooper with suspicion or knowing something was up and he was positioned for a profile view, probably why he got the turkey neck thing.

Gregory said 1/4 Mexican/American Indian blood..  that is virtually the same as Latin or what later became.. Latino. They are effectively the same.

If we saw Cooper we would readily see part Latin(o)/Mexican/Native American in his facial features/characteristics..

The FBI says olive complexion, latin appearance.. because that is what the witnesses said.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 464]

Pic I came across recently in Himmelsbach’s grandsons things 

Edited November 26, 2022 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, olemisscub said:

This applies to everyone except yourself apparently.

What everyone else sees is irrelevant because what you see is the only way to see things. In fact, you’ve apparently got such god-like omniscience that you know precisely what random people 51 years ago had in their heads when they started throwing out adjectives.

I go by the witnesses and what I see in that Vordahl image..

You guys are all over the map trying to discredit the evidence to make Vordahl fit..

Do you honestly see Latin(o)/Mexican/Native American in that Vordahl image.. No, you don't so you then attack the witnesses.. or me. 

Now,, if you want to claim the witnesses were mistaken or just the ones that don't fit your narrative then anybody can be Cooper, right.

Cooper was described by witnesses as Latin/Mexican/Native Am..  TRUE

Norwegian Vordahl does not present with those characteristics. TRUE

Conclusion.... Vordahl is not Cooper..

 

Checkmate boys.

 

[olemisscub 464]

Just now, FLYJACK said:

I go by the witnesses and what I see in that Vordahl image..

You guys are all over the map trying to discredit the evidence to make Vordahl fit..

Do you honestly see Latin(o)/Mexican/Native American in that Vordahl image.. No, you don't so you then attack the witnesses.. or me. 

Now,, if you want to claim the witnesses were mistaken or just the ones that don't fit your narrative then anybody can be Cooper, right.

Cooper was described by witnesses as Latin/Mexican/Native Am..  TRUE

Norwegian Vordahl does not present with those characteristics. TRUE

Conclusion.... Vordahl is not Cooper..

 

Checkmate boys.

 

 

[CooperNWO305 146]

46 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

 

Very neat... there's also this 302 on page 261 of part 11 where a passenger (Robert Gregory?) mentions briefly seeing Cooper without his glasses.

Good find. Sounds like it would be Gregory or Labissionere. 

[FLYJACK 654]

37 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

 

Remember, ridicule isn't actually an argument.. it is a sign of weakness.

I do enjoy jokes when they based in truth, when they are not it is a personal attack..

If you keep up this BS personal crap you will be reported every time from now on, that is about 4x now. I will send them all to the mods.

I won't put up with this childish crap. The mods here are not as generous as other forums. If you want to act immature there are lots of other places for children.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[georger 194]

4 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Pic I came across recently in Himmelsbach’s grandsons things 

Is that Rataczack beside him?

[CooperNWO305 146]

8 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Good find. Sounds like it would be Gregory or Labissionere. 

Flyjack/OleMiss. You think this is Gregory? I can’t find smooth tied to a male. I have a 302 from this forum a while back showing Alice saw him too. She was in Denver at some point right?

[FLYJACK 654]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:58 AM, olemisscub said:

Yeah, this dude is the poster child for having a light complexion. No dark features or olive skin whatsover.  

 

 

Black and white photos are poor for showing complexion, but those home films from the 50's/60's are terrible.. My aunt had one of those cameras and filmed everything. I recently converted some to DVD.. I even had the working projector, watching with the projector all the tones were dark, everybody had a darker complexion, it was not accurate at all. These things were very light sensitive. When I got the film converted to digital on DVD the tones were even darker..

These films were just not tonally accurate.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

14 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Flyjack/OleMiss. You think this is Gregory? I can’t find smooth tied to a male. I have a 302 from this forum a while back showing Alice saw him too. She was in Denver at some point right?

12 letters matches Labissionere.. He also mentioned no moustache in his testimony, that matches this doc..

[FLYJACK 654]

8 hours ago, Slim King said:

Better L@@K OUT!!!!!!! He's gonna report you for having a different opinion than his!!!! In the meantime... 

Why do you find it necessary to lie..

Is this what passes for normal behaviour now?

The guy has personally attacked me with malice 4 or 5 times already..

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 146]

8 hours ago, Slim King said:

Nice!! My brother worked with him. I've been disecting the disinformation in his book this week. I should be done by next week to show you the results as to where and why he was mistaken.

Slim King: Do you have Reca’s military records? Official records?

[olemisscub 464]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Why do you find it necessary to lie..

Is this what passes for normal behaviour now?

The guy has personally attacked me with malice 4 or 5 times already..

Malice? I think you may be taking this all too seriously. This isn't life or death, Fly. You appear to take internet banter more seriously than the rest of us. Everyone in this thread is essentially talking out of our asses anyways. None of us know who Cooper was and probably never will. But if you're legitimately offended by my words or my animated gif usage, then I apologize. You'll be on ignore from now on so I won't be attempted to contradict you and cause you offense. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 464]

5 hours ago, georger said:

Is that Rataczack beside him?

Indeed it is. 

[FLYJACK 654]

Just now, olemisscub said:

Malice? I think you may be taking this all too seriously. This isn't life or death, Fly. But if you're legitimately offended by my words or my animated gif usage, then I apologize. I guess you take internet banter more seriously than the rest of us. You'll be on ignore from now on so I won't be attempted to contradict you and cause you offense. 

I doubt you will actually put me on ignore, your ego won't do it.

I appreciate good humour or the odd jab when it is based in truth..

You repeatedly default to a personal attack,, you haven't done this with anyone else.

It isn't about contradicting or disagreements, you are disrespectful and immature, probably because you perceive my criticisms as a threat.

 

 

[olemisscub 464]

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Flyjack/OleMiss. You think this is Gregory? I can’t find smooth tied to a male. I have a 302 from this forum a while back showing Alice saw him too. She was in Denver at some point right?

That was a mistake by whomever said that was Alice. It was Flo who went to work for Frontier Airlines in summer 72. So anytime you see something out of Denver concerning a stew it's Flo. 

[Math of Insects 95]

"Can't we all get along?"

I think Fly's point that it's hard to tell complexion from old photos or movies is valid. Though that passport picture would also seem to be darker complected, so it may be moot. 

The part I'm hung up on is: While I am very familiar with the descriptions that lead to the "olive"/"Latin"/"Native" description, if I saw the person in the Cooper sketches, I would not think "Latin" or "Native American." If his skin tone were notably darker than what feels in the realm for European-American, I might guess one of those things were in the mix. But it wouldn't be the first thing I'd say based on features.

So it seems completely in the realm to propose someone whose looks match the sketch and whose skin-tone could be described as "olive," etc. Yes? A credible suspect would be "A darker complected 'caucasian' whose features match the drawings," correct?

Otherwise, if we're dismissing the sketch as a match for features, we might as well be discussing Petersen, a nice-looking old man whose name is now permanently attached to a terrorist act he did not come within 3,000 miles of committing thanks to the crackerjack investigation of someone who coincidentally needed to sell tickets to a conference he personally profits from.

[Math of Insects 95]

9 hours ago, Slim King said:

Better L@@K OUT!!!!!!! He's gonna report you for having a different opinion than his!!!! In the meantime... another pic of Cooper. Smoking his favorite cigarette ... Sure looks rather dark to me.

So I think what you're saying, and correct me if I'm way off-base here, but I think you might be hinting that you think Walter Reca was DB Cooper. Am I right or is that crazy talk?

[FLYJACK 654]

25 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

"Can't we all get along?"

I think Fly's point that it's hard to tell complexion from old photos or movies is valid. Though that passport picture would also seem to be darker complected, so it may be moot. 

The part I'm hung up on is: While I am very familiar with the descriptions that lead to the "olive"/"Latin"/"Native" description, if I saw the person in the Cooper sketches, I would not think "Latin" or "Native American." If his skin tone were notably darker than what feels in the realm for European-American, I might guess one of those things were in the mix. But it wouldn't be the first thing I'd say based on features.

So it seems completely in the realm to propose someone whose looks match the sketch and whose skin-tone could be described as "olive," etc. Yes? A credible suspect would be "A darker complected 'caucasian' whose features match the drawings," correct?

Otherwise, if we're dismissing the sketch as a match for features, we might as well be discussing Petersen, a nice-looking old man whose name is now permanently attached to a terrorist act he did not come within 3,000 miles of committing thanks to the crackerjack investigation of someone who coincidentally needed to sell tickets to a conference he personally profits from.

My view is that when we see Cooper for real, we will clearly see what the witnesses saw..  not a guy with a tan, not a Norwegian or an Italian... 

We will see a guy that resembles the sketch AND has obvious Latin/Mexican/Native Am features and characteristics. He is probably mixed race or just has that look.

The sketch B is the best composite they could come up with, anybody close should pass the sketch test. The flaw is that it is limiting being front only and just a sketch that many people resemble... Cooper was nondescript and unmemorable.. Many of the suspects that resemble the sketch have some unique characteristic that Cooper did not have. 

The next test is the witness testimony.. 

Pass that and we move to other evidence.

Vordahl resembles the sketch but he does not exhibit the characteristics in the witness testimony, does that eliminate him, no, but it is knock against.

The profile image (if accurate) does eliminate him, IMO.. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK