5 5
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Yes, perhaps for that. I thought you were implying maintenance records. that far back. not sure. 

They must have airframe records, anybody have any connections at Boeing??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EJU-I don't see Sheridan Peterson as a strong suspect.  I have some free time this weekend and will do some looking into more details on him.  How does he feel about being named as DB Cooper at aged 93 years?  When will you do more videos on suspects?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JJG78 said:

EJU-I don't see Sheridan Peterson as a strong suspect.  I have some free time this weekend and will do some looking into more details on him.  How does he feel about being named as DB Cooper at aged 93 years?  When will you do more videos on suspects?

JJG78--

Keep in mind that the Daily DB Cooper Bite doesn't afford me the opportunity to make much of a case for Sheridan. That said, I have a 137-page report called DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson that goes into much more detail. If you send me an email to eric@thecoopercase.com I'll send you a PDF copy, for free of course.

My plan is to feature a suspect every week or so.

I should be clear that I think Sheridan is "likely" DB Cooper. Thus far, I have been unable to prove it. In essence, the FBI and I are in the same boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote

 

'My plan is to feature a suspect every week or so.

I should be clear that I think Sheridan is "likely" DB Cooper. Thus far, I have been unable to prove it. In essence, the FBI and I are in the same boat...'

 

 

That's pretty much the both of us regarding 'proving' on a suspect. I did get this from FBI agent Frederick Gutt (Seattle office) regarding Christiansen as a suspect, followed by a phone call: 

Quote

"Some in this office believe he's a good suspect. Others believe there are better suspects..."

Right down the middle of the road, if you ask me. That was back in 2013, I believe. Well, at least I had the consolation of knowing that not EVERYONE at the Seattle office had blown off KC as a suspect. ¬¬

If you're going to do a bite eventually on Christiansen, and if you are in doubt about some detail or that, you should ask me privately. Some stuff has not been released to the public. However, if you had a specific question or two, I would probably answer you non-publicly. Not that you couldn't use the information, sure you can. But I won't answer some questions on a public forum. 

The placard? I have given up on that subject. Now people are saying the one found by Hicks probably didn't even COME from Flight 305. Who knows? It's beginning to turn into Tina Bar Money - The Sequel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The video brings up some important points about the money, although I don't agree with ALL the assumptions. Transporting the money to Switzerland to open a numbered account seems unlikely. That's a long trip and there is always the possibility that some customs agent is going to find it before you get it halfway around the world to your friendly Swiss bank. 

In 2008, FBI agent Larry Carr addressed the initial lookout notice, and its results, with the ransom bills. He did a radio interview, which you can find at the bottom of the Wikipedia page on Cooper. Carr said that after the 34-page list was issued, it went out to the following entities:  All or most banks located in the Pacific Northwest. All Federal Reserve banks. MOST of the larger casinos in Reno and Las Vegas. 

Carr admits that almost all banks gave up the search within three months, and virtually ALL of them within six months. 

I interviewed a senior official from the Bureau of Engraving in DC, the guys who actually receive bills and destroy them. He said this:  Even if the FBI had ordered them to keep an eye out for a list of bills, this order would have been IGNORED. He actually told me this, and he had been with them for over 25 years at the time of the phone interview. He said they receive 'truckloads' of bills each month and it would have been impossible for them to comply with this order. This goes against what Ralph Himmelsbach has claimed, which is that the search and lookout for the bills went on for years. But the FBI doesn't do any search for bills. It's not their job and they don't have the capacity to do it anyway. And the people whose responsibility it was found that task impossible. Worn out bills went to a place where they unload them in bunches and don't bother to check the numbers, especially on a denomination as common as a twenty-dollar bill. 

But what this DOES mean is that within three to six months after the hijacking, it would be relatively safe to spend the money as long as you weren't walking onto a car lot or a bank with a boatload of them in a bag. 'Laundering' the money may have been as simple as waiting until the heat died down, the banks stopped looking, and just exchanging them here and there over the next few years. The tricky part is that you would have to complete this task within a few years, in case they change the currency, which they do occasionally. For example, if you waited until 1990 to try it....THEN the bills will become much more noticeable again because they are so fresh, and yet so old. It could cause red flags to pop at any bank, and someone might actually go back and check...especially if it was a NW bank. It's hard to say. 

What would REALLY help your effort in exchanging these bills after the heat had died down, and no one looking anymore...would be if you had an account with a local NW bank and were known to the tellers who worked there. Back in those days, tellers actually got to know their local customers pretty well, too. Then if you came in with a deposit of two or three hundred dollars at a time, no one is going to give it a second thought. 

Quote

"Hi, Mr Jones. What can I do for you today?"

It is also possible that the money was spent, or deposited, not all in one way. Maybe a bit at the store each week. Maybe some to the gas station. Some to a guy selling a modestly-priced car. Or passing off a twenty at a pizza parlor and getting the change. After a few years, you would finally rid yourself of the evidence. Spreading it around reasonably would be a very safe way, once the search for the bills was dropped. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EJU said:

Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss where the rest of the ransom may be.

You really think this was a "one off" crime for Cooper?  He got the title of "master criminal" with his first caper?  Chances are he was a convicted felon and could not have traveled to Asia or Switzerland to launder the money.  As far as time constraints, he probably already had a plan in place to off the evidence ASAP.  If I was compiling a list of possibilities, I would at least consider what was written in Ha Ha Ha, that he diversified it including silver coin since Nixon just ended the Bretton Woods gold standard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 4lcy0ne said:

You really think this was a "one off" crime for Cooper?  He got the title of "master criminal" with his first caper?  Chances are he was a convicted felon and could not have traveled to Asia or Switzerland to launder the money.  As far as time constraints, he probably already had a plan in place to off the evidence ASAP.  If I was compiling a list of possibilities, I would at least consider what was written in Ha Ha Ha, that he diversified it including silver coin since Nixon just ended the Bretton Woods gold standard.

I actually agree with Eric on this one, regarding whether or not Cooper had a previous record. I don't think he did, and yes...it was probably a one-off sort of thing. If he had been a felon, chances are he would have offended again, or he would have been identified by now. 

Ha Ha Ha is fiction all the way. I already researched that one. The artist who did the pictures for the interior and the cover is from Portland and still active today. The author is known to a few people, including the Ariel Store's Dona Eliott, who had a steady supply of copies for years. She said she had met him, and he was nothing like the sketch. A guy much younger than Cooper was at the time of the hijacking. I interviewed her extensively prior to the Cooper Days event in 2012. See my Quora article about all that HERE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is pic of a 727 with the optional "emergency air stair release" you can see the access door with the two finger holes, it removes completely.. and there are two placards on the main door, they don't appear to match the Hick's placard.

 

This plane was from a 727C "combi" 1969..

S/N 20278 768 B727-077C JT8D-7A(HK3) 10/31/69 TRANS AUSTRALIAN AIR EXPRESS

I blurred out the person's face.

 

727controldoor11.jpg.7ac2640b009b4101b581bc1618981417.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
Quote

"Here is pic of a 727 with the optional "emergency air stair release" you can see the access door with the two finger holes, it removes completely.. and there are two placards on the main door, they don't appear to match the Hick's placard..."

There has been quite a bit of doubt discussed regarding the placard. Enough to convince me it was a waste of time to do an expensive search in the Castle Rock area, I can tell you that. 

UPDATE: Five people have already signed up for the Cooper campout. There are some ideas and suggestions about a location, but we haven't agreed on an exact spot just yet. We've narrowed it down to SE of Dorena Lake near Cottage Grove, Oregon or possibly closer to Salem in the Willamette National Forest, off FS Road 159. I'm favoring 159 because it is more centrally located to everyone. General area is HERE.

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the photo I posted might still have something. take a look at the ceiling above the controls for the stairs. you will see a metal strip going all the way up to the point where the panel would be that would come off. the metal would make it harder to get the panel out. if this is the case. the panel was never taken off..

touched up stairs.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer here...but is there a POINT to all this?

There are only three possibilities. 

A) The placard discovered by Hicks is valid, and offers a slight bit of support to the FBI's version of the flight path. 

B) The placard discovered by Hicks came from another 727 and is therefore moot to the Cooper case, or any discussion of its validity supporting the flight path. 

C) Any other pieces of evidence from, at, or around the airstairs door that may have gone out the back have not been found anyway, (and probably will NEVER be found) rendering any discussion of them just as moot. You may as well talk about where that old stop sign on the corner went after the street crew guys replaced it with a new one. B|

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A & B would be a huge break in the case if it was found not being evidence? the odds are extremely low but trying to validate things is part of investigating. 

several newspapers stated the placard came from a 727 but failed to mention 305. the test crew stated seeing the placard before but not after the testing. this justifies trying to validate whether or not 305 had the emergency panel on the plane. 

If the panel is exactly like the one Flyjack has shown recently. the panel can be seen in the photo I provided. that would mean Cooper failed to use the system correctly. the panel has to come off to access the handle. 

The next problem would be NWO failing to train crew members correctly. Tina explained how to use the stairs. Cooper had problems with them. this could be from failing to use the emergency access. the final problem could be that Tina was correct and showed Cooper the only way to release the stairs from the inside being one option. 

These are things you look over dealing with a cold case. finding problems overlooked. this is not just a question whether or not the placard came from 305. if it did. other factors are involved. 

If not mistaken. the question of Cooper hiding inside the stairwell came up in the 302's several days after the search. that means the panels /walls were looked over and that's when they could of noticed the placard missing. this would suggest once again that Tina nor Cooper were aware the panel was there. in frustration Cooper tore the placard off. when you open the normal release panel door. it swings to the right covering the panel. if they were not properly trained they would believe the first access door was the emergency release. this exact same problem occurred with Continental airlines Flyjack posted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Another 727 with what may be a placard where the "emergency release" access door is. This is the best image I can grab.

The other image seems to indicate that it is closer to 6" tall x 8" wide, the right size to fit on the emergency access door and still expose the finger holes.

727airstairdoorplac.jpeg

plac12.jpg

 

727 Ventral airstair panel placard "STAIR CONTROL" without the optional "Emergency release"

727ventralcontrola.jpg.1be8e9ebea1a46f6baff010526b6104f.jpgpam_am11.jpg.0c51d7297e527bf22b0604f5e1e7c805.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

The statement suggests they took the plane over the flightpath for the testing. When they said the placard "matches" the plane they must have meant "same type" not "same one".

 

"The FBI had earlier said the Lake Mcrwin area appeared to be the prime area for the landing. The placard finding site, however, would put it possibly six minutes earlier in the flight when he jumped. FBI spokesman Kay Mathis in Seattle put a word of caution on the finding of the placard by admitting that it was possible the plastic piece, 8 by 11 inches in size, may have been knocked off after the Cooper flight rather than during it. He said also it was possible it was knocked off after Cooper opened the door over about Olympia and several minutes before he actually jumped. "We took the Cooper plane up after the hijacking and simulated a drop by a parachutist." he said. "We noticed the decal was missing after that but not before." However, Mathis said they were not certain if the placard, or decal, was on the plane before they made the simulated runs."

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/215258951/

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You really need to go by the 302's in some cases. why would they drop 300 lb test sleds over land? they had no chutes on them that's why they went over the ocean. this testimony is years after the fact. all they know is a test was done. no real reason to use the flight path checking for pressure bumps and oscillations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
7 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

You really need to go by the 302's in some cases. why would they drop 300 lb test sleds over land? they had no chutes on them that's why they went over the ocean. this testimony is years after the fact. all they know is a test was done. no real reason to use the flight path checking for pressure bumps and oscillations. 

Of course, the sled was dropped over the Ocean.. that doesn't mean they didn't also fly over the flightpath. The FBI had the Placard for months when they made that (media) statement, don't you think they would have figured out where the plane was when it performed any tests.

That statement implies that the plane ALSO flew over the flightpath otherwise they would have easily ruled it out.

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been saying for years the steps were partially down soon after takeoff. that would be pulling the normal lever dropping the stairs in a free-fall. the wind would prevent the stairs from lowering until weight was applied. Olympia is about where he would of pulled the lever. that's a long distance from where it was found. the transcripts can not move the oscillation to the 8:05 position. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

they don't need the 727 to retrace the path...you read in the 302's where they were retracing the path looking for a chute. 

They had no reason to doubt the data in 1971 vs today. 

 

we would of surely seen 302's concerning the plane retracing the path. nothing of the sort is found. we have jump maps, and data on the testing over the ocean. nothing, except news reports from agents who were not there or fully involved in the case making statements. 

Edited by mrshutter45

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

I have been saying for years the steps were partially down soon after takeoff. that would be pulling the normal lever dropping the stairs in a free-fall. the wind would prevent the stairs from lowering until weight was applied. Olympia is about where he would of pulled the lever. that's a long distance from where it was found. the transcripts can not move the oscillation to the 8:05 position. 

If the Placard was from Cooper scenario,,

 

Airstairs lowered by Cooper, having trouble pulls emergency access door off wall drops it on stairs above actual ventral stair.

8:04/8:05 he returns to interphone to talk

he immediately goes back down airstairs kicking the "emergency access door" down and out as he descends to the bottom.  Placard drifts back along Flightpath.

jumps 8:09/11

 

But now that is in question if that Placard came off later or another 727...

I always thought it looked to good to be in the woods for 7 years.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when you look at the photo I posted. you can see above the normal access door. a hole should be present of Cooper removed the panel..

The placard wouldn't be exposed to much sunlight but I agree it's odd that it remained visible for years. if those are pine tree's they should have pine needles all over the ground. we have lots of pine down here and it does just that..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

they don't need the 727 to retrace the path...you read in the 302's where they were retracing the path looking for a chute. 

They had no reason to doubt the data in 1971 vs today. 

I don't even know what that means..

They knew the plane testing location when they made the statements, they would have ruled it out if the plane wasn't over the flightpath. They didn't.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, mrshutter45 said:

when you look at the photo I posted. you can see above the normal access door. a hole should be present of Cooper removed the panel..

The placard wouldn't be exposed to much sunlight but I agree it's odd that it remained visible for years. if those are pine tree's they should have pine needles all over the ground. we have lots of pine down here and it does just that..

There is another remote possibility, somebody stole it from the plane after NORJAK as a souvenir,, and Hicks made up the find.

 

It is just another unanswered aspect of the VORTEX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
5 5