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DB Cooper

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Robert, we are trying to determine if the picture on the left from the episode of In Search Of is the same placard. the sheriff was thanked in the credits. I'm assuming the cards are the same..

 

Fly, the picture is blurry not allowing to tell but appears to be the same IMO.

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"Your map is actually done very well. I have printed this up and included it in a folder of map images that I will be taking along to Castle Rock."

The best option I see for you in that area is looking for the small door Flyjack believes went out the back. it's light enough to possibly be in the area. it's plastic though so metal detectors will not find it. 

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7 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

"Your map is actually done very well. I have printed this up and included it in a folder of map images that I will be taking along to Castle Rock."

The best option I see for you in that area is looking for the small door Flyjack believes went out the back. it's light enough to possibly be in the area. it's plastic though so metal detectors will not find it. 

Ah...okay. Good idea. 

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13 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Robert, we are trying to determine if the picture on the left from the episode of In Search Of is the same placard. the sheriff was thanked in the credits. I'm assuming the cards are the same..

 

Fly, the picture is blurry not allowing to tell but appears to be the same IMO.

The lettering doesn't line up at all. It is clear.

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20 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

It's from a different angle and blurry....

Look at the video in slo mo and compare to this pic.. the lettering position doesn't match.

The "R" is clearly before the "D" above... in the "In Search Of" one.

placard1.jpg.5a7c0ff43ce1e39cf8bc8dcc92545380.jpg

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7 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The tear and bend could be manipulating the angle. I enlarged the area as much as I could given the fact of the bad resolution..The R looks like it's center with the D..

closeup.png

Doesn't look centred under the "D" to me, the video shows different angles when he picks it up and none of it shows it centred... watch the vid in slo mo

It isn't centred.

placcent.jpeg.631fa5a5ec9e72f29c54eae894422b26.jpeg

 

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This is great analysis for leaflet drops... (CIA) which can be a proxy for the Placard separated from plastic door..

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP78-03639A000500080001-1.pdf

 

2-3 ft/sec descent.. not factoring wind

plane 10000 ft

Placard find = 1320 ft

 

3 ft/sec = 180ft/min falling 8680 ft = 48 minutes

2 ft/sec = 120 ft/min falling 8680 ft = 72 minutes

 

Take away, if the Placard separated from the plastic door immediately on plane exit and fell close to 8680 ft it could have taken 48 minutes or more depending on the wind speed to reach the ground. It could have travelled up to 50 miles or more..

Since it was found right under the FBI flightpath, right after last comm with Cooper, that suggests the placard may not have come down on its own. It was either carried in something or remained attached to the plastic door.

Is there any reason to take it with him or put it (with small plastic door) in the briefcase or dummy chute and toss?

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Quote

Is there any reason to take it with him or put it (with small plastic door) in the briefcase or dummy chute and toss ?

Possibly to throw off any ground search for the hijacker, should they be found later. I doubt Cooper would take the time to open the briefcase just to insert the placard, though. Maybe he just snatched it from where it was attached and threw all three items overboard at the same time. 

Looking at maps, it is approximately 25-27 miles as the crow flies between the placard location and Amboy/Ariel. That would be around 8-9 minutes flying time. Or so. If the above scenario was true, it sounds like the placard drifted mostly NORTH after its release from the airliner. It's possible the briefcase and dummy chute are actually located a few miles SOUTH of the placard find. Unfortunately. 

But we will still concentrate our search at the placard find because any other location wouldn't just be guesswork, it would be MORE than useless. Like I said, we don't expect to find anything. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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22 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Possibly to throw off any ground search for the hijacker, should they be found later. I doubt Cooper would take the time to open the briefcase just to insert the placard, though. Maybe he just snatched it from where it was attached and threw all three items overboard at the same time. 

I am questioning the notion that the Placard fell on its own, the dispersion area would be massive. Yet, it was found right under the flightpath.. right after (w drift) last comms with Cooper. 

That suggests the Placard did not drift down on its own.

That plastic door should have two finger holes in it, could that have been used for something? Securing the money with the cords through the holes? worried about fingerprints? or?

Don't know, just trying to brainstorm this..

 

Didn't they fly a test run over the flightpath afterwards to check drift? Apparently they didn't notice it was missing right away..  maybe it came off during the test..

Edited by FLYJACK

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Good stuff Fly. we need more information on NWO's 727's. not Continental or anyone else. the emergency handles were different in the 727's. we need to find a picture of the area. if the door was torn off. it's possible the jet wash destroyed the door and placard leaving what we see in the photo's. 

stairs.png

Edited by mrshutter45

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14 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Good stuff Fly. we need more information on NWO's 727's. not Continental or anyone else. the emergency handles were different in the 727's. we need to find a picture of the area. if the door was torn off. it's possible the jet wash destroyed the door and placard leaving what we see in the photo's. 

stairs.png

I have searched for NWO specific info without success, the emergency release door the placard would have been behind (to the right of) the main control door pictured above and slightly larger than the placard. It was a relatively uncommon option for 727's. All emergency airstair releases were in the same place as pictured below.

The placard in the image above isn't the right one. I was a separate door form the main and came from inside the airstair cavity, not the external control. It had to come from Cooper or the the flight test afterward.

I always thought that somebody wearing a parachute turning around in the airstair cavity could have caught it and ripped it off. 

727airstairemergency.jpeg.767a57937d2d7932fb35102dd84d64d9.jpeg727safetyarda.jpg.9cd193bfe6cb81463e5aba2fa2fd9430.jpg

1705400769_(KGrHqFHJEwFIpUwwZ02BSR(Kejcg60_57.JPG.df1bf1b80e072b228d92fd621a474c37.JPG

Edited by FLYJACK

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"Relevant Fact— The placard was found about 13 miles east of Castle Rock. This is  commensurate with the strong winds from the west. Its rate of fall would usually be around 2.5 feet per second. Put all the calculations together and it would drop about 9000 feet in an hour. Add the heavier weather, barometric pressure, and the intermittent downpour, and the rate of decent is doubled. Thus the placard could have been found as much as 22 miles or more east of where it dropped from the Boeing 727."

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8 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Every 727 I've seen with photo's of the stairs show the plastic box the with the handle inside. you can see it in this photo.

FDR stair release.png

The "airstair emergency release" was an uncommon option, I have searched and not found any real pics of it but it is depicted in those two safety cards I just posted and described in the doc..

It would have been against the wall just to the right of the main released door. When the main door was swung open it would have covered it.

It is completely separate from the main release..

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11 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Boeing did a lot of testing in the area, right? 

I thought they flew the plane along the v23 flight path to test the winds and parachuting.. not sure if that was part of the sled test or earlier??  that placard may have come off during that test flight.. there is no way to know.

I couldn't even determine if the NORJAK 727 had an "emergency airstair" option installed.

 

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2 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

If not mistaken they flew over the ocean. the drop sleds didn't open. they were only used to reproduce the action of the stairs..not the jump. 

 

not sure about retracing the flight with the plane...don't know. 

The sled test was in January, I think..

They claimed they knew the placard was missing days later..

That suggests two different "test" events. Have to look for confirmation.

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