DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

19 minutes ago, georger said:

Obviously, R99 is hinting at positional information, or any communication that would reveal flight path positions 305 was on, but 'somebody' redacted when the "PI Transcript' was made public. Who posted the comms transcript first?  Sluggo via Carr, or the SeattlePost Intelligencer? The Transcript appeared almost simultaneously from both sources.  Later, WSHM made it a centerpiece in their exposition.

So far as I can tell neither R99 or the WSHM has ever stated explicitly what the socalled redactions are or how anyone determined there were redactions. This never got straightened out in the Old DZ because both R99 and WSHM demurred from any explicit statement. 

And for the record, "60 Minutes" has never stated it either!  

It is a conspiracy theory R99 has pushed for years even before the WSHM exposition. .

Georger, have you heard of Logic 101?  If the WSHM or I knew what the redactions were we would not be having this exchange.

Do you understand now?

[Robert99 37]

23 minutes ago, georger said:

Obviously, R99 is hinting at positional information, or any communication that would reveal flight path positions 305 was on, but 'somebody' redacted when the "PI Transcript' was made public. Who posted the comms transcript first?  Sluggo via Carr, or the SeattlePost Intelligencer? The Transcript appeared almost simultaneously from both sources.  Later, WSHM made it a centerpiece in their exposition.

So far as I can tell neither R99 or the WSHM has ever stated explicitly what the socalled redactions are or how anyone determined there were redactions. This never got straightened out in the Old DZ because both R99 and WSHM demurred from any explicit statement. 

And for the record, "60 Minutes" has never stated it either!  

It is a conspiracy theory R99 has pushed for years even before the WSHM exposition. .

Georger, don't conspiracies require two or more people?

[FLYJACK 654]

7 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

It would undoubtedly be something that would assist in determining Cooper's jump point among other things.  It might also be something to help determine Cooper's identity.  Whatever it is, it is something that the powers that be don't want made public.

When I joined DropZone in 2009, at Sluggo's suggestion, I made an early post that Cooper was probably going to be a former employee of Boeing or a former US government employee or contractor.  I have not seen anything in the last 13 years to change that possibility.

Are you suggesting an FBI coverup to hide Cooper's identity?

[Robert99 37]

16 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Are you suggesting an FBI coverup to hide Cooper's identity?

That or a coverup by some other organization is a definite possibility.

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, Robert99 said:

That or a coverup by some other organization is a definite possibility.

Which other organization?

[georger 197]

4 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, don't conspiracies require two or more people?

Cute. You are the expert. You tell us!

Edited October 31, 2022 by georger

[georger 197]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Which other organization?

Here is what R99 said years ago, quote:

R99    4 22 2020

The above nonsense by the Poster-who-must-not-be-named only further evidences his lack of aeronautical qualifications and his interest in spreading disinformation.

Here are some facts.  Even in 1971, all radio communications between aircraft and air traffic control were recorded.  These recordings were used during investigations of accidents and incidents.  The Cooper hijacking was an "incident".

The Seattle Air Traffic Control Center recorded all radio communications it had with the hijacked airliner during the time it was in their airspace.  That includes the time frame starting with its departure from Portland a few minutes after 3:00 PM PST until it was handed off to the Oakland Air Traffic Control Center in Northern California at 9:45 PM PST.

Gerald H. Osterkamp, Chief, Seattle Center, had a transcript of those communications prepared and certified that "I hereby certify that the following is a true transcription of the recorded conversation pertaining to the subject incident".  Osterkamp had a Xerox copy of his original true transcription prepared and certified on that copy that "I certify that this is a true copy of the original which is on file at this office".  It is a partial copy of that copy that made its way into what we have today which has 19 redactions.  There is absolutely no way that we have a copy of the original transcription that Osterkamp prepared.  It is plainly evident that Osterkamp's original certifications page was prepared on a different typewriter than the redacted transcript that found its way to Sluggo or wherever.

The Oakland Air Traffic Control Center and the Reno Tower recorded all radio communications with the hijacked airliner from 9:45 PM PST until the aircraft shut down on the Reno airport ramp at 11:22 PM PST.  Donald E. Erink, Chief, Oakland Center, had a transcript prepared of those communications and certified that "I hereby certify that the following is a true transcription of the recorded conversation pertaining to the subject hijacking".  It is a safe assumption that Erink kept a copy of that transcript in his office files.

As I have stated any number of times before, the Oakland Center transcripts do not contain any redactions and are classic air traffic control communications for 1971.  The Oakland Center controllers communications were straight out of the controller's textbook.

The Seattle and Oakland original transcripts still exist today unless someone purged them in a CYA attempt.  Both the FBI and FAA would have copies of the originals since this is an ongoing criminal case.  And those transcripts are of communications that were made over air traffic control radio frequencies and could, and probably were, heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest.  Lastly, such communications are in the public domain.       

 

R99 has brought us no closer than we were years ago.

Edited October 31, 2022 by georger

[georger 197]

One more time! Here is the actual WSHM statement on "missing or redacted" lines verbatim: 

MAIN POINTS - WSHM HARRISON PAPERS ANALYSIS –

ATC vs ARINC transcripts

 the files of George E. Harrison, DMTS, District Manager of Technical Services for Northwest Airlines stationed at Seattle, relating to the events of November 24, 1971 involving the hijacking of NW flight 305 by Dan “DB” Cooper.

 

1. Handwritten notes by George Harrison, describing the hijacking minute by minute, d. 11/24/71, (23 pages) – digitized in PDF format, hereafter referred to as WSHS no. 2013.5.23.1;

2. Correspondence, receipts, and other documents regarding hijacking of Northwest Airlines flight 305, both handwritten and typed; varying dates, from 11/24/71 to 5/19/72, (14 pages total) - digitized in PDF format, hereafter referred to as WSHS no. 2013.5.23.2;

3. Two rolls of teletype (TTY) printout, produced by ARINC for Northwest Airlines, both rolls d.11/24/71. For discussion purposes, the teletype printout rolls are here identified as “roll A” and “roll B.”  The last entry examined on this roll bore a matching entry on 2013.5.15.5 [page 106 of transcript; page 18 of PDF file] with a timestamp of 8:20 PM (PST).

 

This report covers the findings of the visual analysis of the ARINC teletype rolls, by WSHS curators Fred Poyner IV and Gwen Whiting.

No timestamps were visible on the printout, in correlation with the entries made. However, comparative matches of individual entries were possible, by a comparison of roll A with the public released printout Roll B  obtained from the FBI (2013.5.15.5) later released by a newspaper called the PI Transcript, of flight 305 communications.

 

For discussion of the analysis of missing sections, roll A was the primary source of information. Roll B was identical to roll A in terms of material and appearance, except in three areas:

 

Report findings:

Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

 

       Between 4:45 PM and 4:51 PM -- one entry of teletype text

       Between 5:16 PM to 5:22 PM – 3 entries of teletype text

       Between 5:37 PM and 5:47 PM – 3 entries of teletype text

       Between 5:47 PM and 6:21 PM – 12 separate entries of teletype text

       Between 6:25 PM and 6:38 PM – 4 entries of teletype text

       Between 6:44 PM and 6:59 PM – 2 entries of teletype text

       Between 7:48 PM and 7:54 PM – 1 entry of teletype text

       Between 7:54 PM and 8:05 PM – 4 entries of teletype text

 

Finding No.1 - These entries appear to reflect aircraft information about Northwest flight 305 and its outbound flight from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport on 11/24/1971

Finding no. 2 – The examination of the teletype printouts in both roll A and roll B, reveal that there are no missing sections of type reflected between the timestamps for 8:10 PM (PST) to 8:12 PM (PST); 8:12 PM to 8:20 PM (PST); or 8:20 PM to 8:24 PM (PST), when compared to the public released transcript entries found for these same time periods [ref. 2013.5.15.5].

 

Finding no. 3 – While not conclusive, the ARINC teletype rolls A and B that were part of George Harrison’s files may be the same “radio logs” referenced in the letter sent by Harrison to J.A. Rigby, d. 11/26/1971, in paragraph 4, page 1. The letter indicates that these logs were provided to the FBI c/o J. Earl Milnes, the SAC for the Cooper investigation at the time, so that the FBI could make their own copy then return the originals to NW Airlines.

 

Finding no. 4 – In the examination of the rolls A and B, and accompanying documents made available on loan to WSHS from the Harrison estate, no conclusive information was discovered as to who or why the ARINC teletype entries were omitted from the FBI’s publicly released version of the radio log [ref.2013.5.15.5].

 

Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

 

Poster's Note*   The WSHM statements above are different from R99's claims. 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by georger

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, georger said:

One more time! Here is the actual WSHM statement on "missing or redacted" lines verbatim: 

MAIN POINTS - WSHM HARRISON PAPERS ANALYSIS –

ATC vs ARINC transcripts

 the files of George E. Harrison, DMTS, District Manager of Technical Services for Northwest Airlines stationed at Seattle, relating to the events of November 24, 1971 involving the hijacking of NW flight 305 by Dan “DB” Cooper.

 

1. Handwritten notes by George Harrison, describing the hijacking minute by minute, d. 11/24/71, (23 pages) – digitized in PDF format, hereafter referred to as WSHS no. 2013.5.23.1;

2. Correspondence, receipts, and other documents regarding hijacking of Northwest Airlines flight 305, both handwritten and typed; varying dates, from 11/24/71 to 5/19/72, (14 pages total) - digitized in PDF format, hereafter referred to as WSHS no. 2013.5.23.2;

3. Two rolls of teletype (TTY) printout, produced by ARINC for Northwest Airlines, both rolls d.11/24/71. For discussion purposes, the teletype printout rolls are here identified as “roll A” and “roll B.”  The last entry examined on this roll bore a matching entry on 2013.5.15.5 [page 106 of transcript; page 18 of PDF file] with a timestamp of 8:20 PM (PST).

 

This report covers the findings of the visual analysis of the ARINC teletype rolls, by WSHS curators Fred Poyner IV and Gwen Whiting.

No timestamps were visible on the printout, in correlation with the entries made. However, comparative matches of individual entries were possible, by a comparison of roll A with the public released printout Roll B  obtained from the FBI (2013.5.15.5) later released by a newspaper called the PI Transcript, of flight 305 communications.

 

For discussion of the analysis of missing sections, roll A was the primary source of information. Roll B was identical to roll A in terms of material and appearance, except in three areas:

 

Report findings:

Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

 

       Between 4:45 PM and 4:51 PM -- one entry of teletype text

       Between 5:16 PM to 5:22 PM – 3 entries of teletype text

       Between 5:37 PM and 5:47 PM – 3 entries of teletype text

       Between 5:47 PM and 6:21 PM – 12 separate entries of teletype text

       Between 6:25 PM and 6:38 PM – 4 entries of teletype text

       Between 6:44 PM and 6:59 PM – 2 entries of teletype text

       Between 7:48 PM and 7:54 PM – 1 entry of teletype text

       Between 7:54 PM and 8:05 PM – 4 entries of teletype text

 

Finding No.1 - These entries appear to reflect aircraft information about Northwest flight 305 and its outbound flight from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport on 11/24/1971

Finding no. 2 – The examination of the teletype printouts in both roll A and roll B, reveal that there are no missing sections of type reflected between the timestamps for 8:10 PM (PST) to 8:12 PM (PST); 8:12 PM to 8:20 PM (PST); or 8:20 PM to 8:24 PM (PST), when compared to the public released transcript entries found for these same time periods [ref. 2013.5.15.5].

 

Finding no. 3 – While not conclusive, the ARINC teletype rolls A and B that were part of George Harrison’s files may be the same “radio logs” referenced in the letter sent by Harrison to J.A. Rigby, d. 11/26/1971, in paragraph 4, page 1. The letter indicates that these logs were provided to the FBI c/o J. Earl Milnes, the SAC for the Cooper investigation at the time, so that the FBI could make their own copy then return the originals to NW Airlines.

 

Finding no. 4 – In the examination of the rolls A and B, and accompanying documents made available on loan to WSHS from the Harrison estate, no conclusive information was discovered as to who or why the ARINC teletype entries were omitted from the FBI’s publicly released version of the radio log [ref.2013.5.15.5].

 

Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

 

Poster's Note*   The WSHM statements above are different from R99's claims. 

 

Georger, you have made another wild ass and irresponsible claim.  Just exactly what are you talking about?  What is different in the WSHM statements and my "claims"?

[Robert99 37]

2 hours ago, georger said:

Here is what R99 said years ago, quote:

R99    4 22 2020

The above nonsense by the Poster-who-must-not-be-named only further evidences his lack of aeronautical qualifications and his interest in spreading disinformation.

Here are some facts.  Even in 1971, all radio communications between aircraft and air traffic control were recorded.  These recordings were used during investigations of accidents and incidents.  The Cooper hijacking was an "incident".

The Seattle Air Traffic Control Center recorded all radio communications it had with the hijacked airliner during the time it was in their airspace.  That includes the time frame starting with its departure from Portland a few minutes after 3:00 PM PST until it was handed off to the Oakland Air Traffic Control Center in Northern California at 9:45 PM PST.

Gerald H. Osterkamp, Chief, Seattle Center, had a transcript of those communications prepared and certified that "I hereby certify that the following is a true transcription of the recorded conversation pertaining to the subject incident".  Osterkamp had a Xerox copy of his original true transcription prepared and certified on that copy that "I certify that this is a true copy of the original which is on file at this office".  It is a partial copy of that copy that made its way into what we have today which has 19 redactions.  There is absolutely no way that we have a copy of the original transcription that Osterkamp prepared.  It is plainly evident that Osterkamp's original certifications page was prepared on a different typewriter than the redacted transcript that found its way to Sluggo or wherever.

The Oakland Air Traffic Control Center and the Reno Tower recorded all radio communications with the hijacked airliner from 9:45 PM PST until the aircraft shut down on the Reno airport ramp at 11:22 PM PST.  Donald E. Erink, Chief, Oakland Center, had a transcript prepared of those communications and certified that "I hereby certify that the following is a true transcription of the recorded conversation pertaining to the subject hijacking".  It is a safe assumption that Erink kept a copy of that transcript in his office files.

As I have stated any number of times before, the Oakland Center transcripts do not contain any redactions and are classic air traffic control communications for 1971.  The Oakland Center controllers communications were straight out of the controller's textbook.

The Seattle and Oakland original transcripts still exist today unless someone purged them in a CYA attempt.  Both the FBI and FAA would have copies of the originals since this is an ongoing criminal case.  And those transcripts are of communications that were made over air traffic control radio frequencies and could, and probably were, heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest.  Lastly, such communications are in the public domain.       

 

R99 has brought us no closer than we were years ago.

Georger, the "Poster-who-must-not-be-named" is you as you well know.  And I believe this was actually posted on DropZone about 10 years ago.  Since you have refused to reveal any aeronautical qualifications that you may have, it is safe to assume that you don't have any.  

[Robert99 37]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Which other organization?

How many three letter organizations can you name that have been mentioned in the discussion of the hijacking?

[georger 197]

4 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, you have made another wild ass and irresponsible claim.  Just exactly what are you talking about?  What is different in the WSHM statements and my "claims"?

WSHM claims are explicit I posted them - you wont even post your claims!  

Just answer the guy who originally asked you ............................  FOR A CHANGE!  Stop spinning and blaming and diverting - just answer the guy's question. This has nothing to do with me!

Take all the time you need.    Hopefully not years.

Edited October 31, 2022 by georger

[CooperNWO305 146]

There seems to be disagreement as to if these redactions even exist.  If they do exist, I'm curious as to what they might be hiding.  I enjoy R99's posts. He's done great research.  Although, I am not a big believer in the 3 letter agencies being involved, or the Western Flight Path, or that he burned in.  It would be cool to find out that there is some small nugget of info that we as citizen sleuths don't have yet.

[Robert99 37]

7 hours ago, georger said:

WSHM claims are explicit I posted them - you wont even post your claims!  

Just answer the guy who originally asked you ............................  FOR A CHANGE!  Stop spinning and blaming and diverting - just answer the guy's question. This has nothing to do with me!

Take all the time you need.    Hopefully not years.

Georger, you need a crash course in Logic 101.00000001.  If I didn't post my "claims" (or whatever you are referring to) how would you know that I had made any?

And what question did I fail to answer and who was the guy that asked it?

[FLYJACK 654]

Ulis, NickyB, olemisscub and likely others are chasing the sketchy REMCRU lead..

No, those particles are NOT limited to REMCRU.

They are tracking associated titanium alloy inventors... maybe the same person or multiple people... I don't do facebook..

One is Milton B Vordahl... 

This is like finding KFC chicken on a tie and claiming it was worn by Colonel Sanders... possible but extremely unlikely.

[georger 197]

R99 is playing games - but at the DBCForum he posts:

Robert99

• Hero Member

« Reply #8112 on: Today at 01:11:32 AM »

 

Chaucer, if Air Traffic Controller (not radar controller) R16 never heard from NWA 305 then they could not be communicating.  If after trying to contact someone on 133.9 several times and getting no response, the airliner would revert to the previous controller and explain the situation.  And I am sure the previous controller would get the matter cleared up in less than 60 seconds and provide the correct frequency for the next controller.  These communications should be in the Seattle ATC transcripts. 

Gerald H. Osterkamp, the Chief of the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center, certified that his original communication transcripts were between NWA 305 and controllers R2, R5, R6, and R10 and included everything that was recorded relevant to the hijacking.  Since all of the air traffic communications are recorded, it is obvious that some have been redacted.  And the number of redactions in the Seattle transcripts totals 19.

You are now saying that Larry Carr was only referring to the communications over the ARINC frequency, which is not an air traffic control frequency.  The redactions that Carr was apparently referring to would be the missing transcripts in the ARINC teletype transcripts that the WSHM detected in their examination of the roll of ARINC teletype transcripts from the George Harrison family that they were able to examine.

The Larry Carr comments have been cited in your own previous posts as I noted in earlier posts.

For your information, the FBI listed the FAA as one of the organizations that did not want to release any further information on the Seattle ATC transcripts as a result of my FOIAs.  And a FOIA direct to the FAA was also unproductive.

The end result remains that there are 19 unexplained redactions in the Seattle ATC transcripts.

.................................................

WSHM had said: Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

8 missing or redacted.

Why has Carr not responded directly to any of this confusion ?

This isnt going away until it is resolved.  The flight path is fundamental to the DB Cooper story...

 

 

 

[olemisscub 466]

now this is epic

[georger 197]

Cooper was a scumbag and poor, who needed money, and died in the jump. That may all be wrong. A search was done after the hijacking to try a connect Cooper to motels etc - that came up blank. But what if Cooper was a person of means and had some place in the Portland area to hold up and wait, a place that was warm and dry - as the rubber band facts require ?  But, Cooper was gleeful at the sight of $200k brought in in a bag and placed at his feet! Cooper needed money or his defiant confrontation of the government, was working, in the context of massive social turmoil in America 1971 ? 

I sometimes wonder if the whole focus in the Cooper Vortex has been wrong, as a function of the personalities involved.   There are places that FBI 302s will never go or reveal.

Edited October 31, 2022 by georger

[olemisscub 466]

22 minutes ago, georger said:

But, Cooper was gleeful at the sight of $200k brought in in a bag and placed at his feet! 

Personally I think this whole bit is overstated. Tina says that when she brought him the money he merely stated that “it looked okay.” Florence of course has the line about him acting childish but that appears to be in response to him “dad joking” her by asking her to pick the bag up. She said he was acting very childish, but I just read that as her saying that his joking behavior seemed inappropriate at the moment.

[georger 197]

27 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Personally I think this whole bit is overstated. Tina says that when she brought him the money he merely stated that “it looked okay.” Florence of course has the line about him acting childish but that appears to be in response to him “dad joking” her by asking her to pick the bag up. She said he was acting very childish, but I just read that as her saying that his joking behavior seemed inappropriate at the moment.

I think you are right! Valuable distinction. You have a knack for the crucial details ....  

Edited October 31, 2022 by georger

[Robert99 37]

2 hours ago, georger said:

R99 is playing games - but at the DBCForum he posts:

Robert99

• Hero Member

« Reply #8112 on: Today at 01:11:32 AM »

 

Chaucer, if Air Traffic Controller (not radar controller) R16 never heard from NWA 305 then they could not be communicating.  If after trying to contact someone on 133.9 several times and getting no response, the airliner would revert to the previous controller and explain the situation.  And I am sure the previous controller would get the matter cleared up in less than 60 seconds and provide the correct frequency for the next controller.  These communications should be in the Seattle ATC transcripts. 

Gerald H. Osterkamp, the Chief of the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center, certified that his original communication transcripts were between NWA 305 and controllers R2, R5, R6, and R10 and included everything that was recorded relevant to the hijacking.  Since all of the air traffic communications are recorded, it is obvious that some have been redacted.  And the number of redactions in the Seattle transcripts totals 19.

You are now saying that Larry Carr was only referring to the communications over the ARINC frequency, which is not an air traffic control frequency.  The redactions that Carr was apparently referring to would be the missing transcripts in the ARINC teletype transcripts that the WSHM detected in their examination of the roll of ARINC teletype transcripts from the George Harrison family that they were able to examine.

The Larry Carr comments have been cited in your own previous posts as I noted in earlier posts.

For your information, the FBI listed the FAA as one of the organizations that did not want to release any further information on the Seattle ATC transcripts as a result of my FOIAs.  And a FOIA direct to the FAA was also unproductive.

The end result remains that there are 19 unexplained redactions in the Seattle ATC transcripts.

.................................................

WSHM had said: Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

8 missing or redacted.

Why has Carr not responded directly to any of this confusion ?

This isnt going away until it is resolved.  The flight path is fundamental to the DB Cooper story...

 

 

 

Georger, you apparently still don't understand that the ARINC teletype transcripts and the Seattle ATC radio transcripts are different items as I have pointing out here for about the last 13+ years.

In your quote above, the WSHM states that there are eight areas of missing or redacted teletype print copies between 4:45 PM PST and 8:24 PM PST.  These "areas" could include more than one teletype print message.  Several of these messages were apparently sent before the airliner even landed at SEATAC at about 5:30 PM PST.

According to Chaucer, Larry Carr has said that he has seen the missing teletype print copies that the WSHM refers to in their analysis.  So Carr has apparently responded directly to this matter.

Shifting now to the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, there are 10 redacted areas prior to 8:24 PM PST and nine redacted areas after that time.  You must understand that the air traffic controllers were not involved in the ARINC radio and teletype communications or vice versa.

There is nothing to be confused about here.  This has been plainly discussed for more than a decade on this thread and is as simple as can be.  If you don't understand it then you need to do some research into aircraft communications, and I have previously listed a number of FAA publications (which are free and downloadable on their site) that explains this further.

[The Cooper Vortex 73]

Happy Halloween! Enjoy a new episode of The Cooper Vortex! DB Cooper was a Criminal with James Calhoun.

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-a-criminal-james-calhoun/ 

[georger 197]

7 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, you apparently still don't understand that the ARINC teletype transcripts and the Seattle ATC radio transcripts are different items as I have pointing out here for about the last 13+ years.

In your quote above, the WSHM states that there are eight areas of missing or redacted teletype print copies between 4:45 PM PST and 8:24 PM PST.  These "areas" could include more than one teletype print message.  Several of these messages were apparently sent before the airliner even landed at SEATAC at about 5:30 PM PST.

According to Chaucer, Larry Carr has said that he has seen the missing teletype print copies that the WSHM refers to in their analysis.  So Carr has apparently responded directly to this matter.

Shifting now to the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, there are 10 redacted areas prior to 8:24 PM PST and nine redacted areas after that time.  You must understand that the air traffic controllers were not involved in the ARINC radio and teletype communications or vice versa.

There is nothing to be confused about here.  This has been plainly discussed for more than a decade on this thread and is as simple as can be.  If you don't understand it then you need to do some research into aircraft communications, and I have previously listed a number of FAA publications (which are free and downloadable on their site) that explains this further.

R99 posts at the other forum:

Chaucer, the above quote is from your post #8106 above.

As I have previously explained, Larry Carr is talking about the ARINC teletype transcripts and NOT the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.

The "unreleased comms" Carr mentioned have to include the "missing" teletype transcripts that the WSHM people identified during their study of the George Harrison papers which included a roll of ARINC teletype transcripts related to the hijacking. 

 

..................................

 

Its Seattle ATC radio transcripts vs ARINC teletype transcripts  .... and redactions redactions redactions everywhere. R99  has his count. WSHM has another count. Thanks for the clarafacations of clarifications R99 and 9 and 9 and 9,   everywhere. 

 

Good night Irene.  

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by georger

[Robert99 37]

11 hours ago, georger said:

R99 posts at the other forum:

Chaucer, the above quote is from your post #8106 above.

As I have previously explained, Larry Carr is talking about the ARINC teletype transcripts and NOT the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.

The "unreleased comms" Carr mentioned have to include the "missing" teletype transcripts that the WSHM people identified during their study of the George Harrison papers which included a roll of ARINC teletype transcripts related to the hijacking. 

 

..................................

 

Its Seattle ATC radio transcripts vs ARINC teletype transcripts  .... and redactions redactions redactions everywhere. R99  has his count. WSHM has another count. Thanks for the clarafacations of clarifications R99 and 9 and 9 and 9,   everywhere. 

 

Good night Irene.  

 

This is just more mis-information from Georger.

[georger 197]

2 hours ago, Robert99 said:

This is just more mis-information from Georger.

Well then straighten us out Mr. Nicholson.

1. WSHM says 'missing or redacted'. You say 'redacted in order to keep information from the public'.

2. You say the missing info would change the flight path. WSHM doesnt make that claim.

Clear it up for everyone, please!

Edited November 1, 2022 by georger