47 47
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Math of Insects said:

Would anyone like to hazard a guess at what Max Gunther's wife's name was?

Dorothy.

Do_____.

Curiouser and curiouser.

You are saying the letter was typed by Gunther himself.

I wondered that also - plus to me there is something curious about the typewriter. It types like somebody's old favorite machine, over used and defective ......... like many writers still use today. I know authors today who still use their old favorite IBMs  even though they cant get parts for them. You would be surprised how stubborn some people are  to update their old habits and favorite old tools ... 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, georger said:

You are saying the letter was typed by Gunther himself.

I wondered that also - plus to me there is something curious about the typewriter. It types like somebody's old favorite machine, over used and defective ......... like many writers still use today. I know authors today who still use their old favorite IBMs  even though they cant get parts for them. You would be surprised how stubborn some people are  to update their old habits and favorite old tools ... 

Remember, Gunther submitted his notes and the letters to the FBI for evaluation,, no way he would use a unique typewriter that ties a letter to himself.

He was a successful writer, no reason to risk a criminal charge and his career for a mediocre book. Even Gunther admitted there is no proof it was Cooper and may be a hoax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found that the IRS in WA DC uses the numbers 317-684(x), I found many of them between 0-9..

The code 171717684* was in the Cooper letter,, = 3(17's)-684*

BUT, and a big BUT... I can't tell if those numbers were used back in 1971,,

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I found that the IRS in WA DC uses the numbers 317-684(x), I found many of them between 0-9..

The code 171717684* was in the Cooper letter,, = 3(17's)-684*

BUT, and a big BUT... I can't tell if those numbers were used back in 1971,,

 

These are the letters that Colbert claimed were from Rackstraw?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

These are the letters that Colbert claimed were from Rackstraw?

yes. But I got it mixed up,, it is 371's not 317's... so it doesn't apply

3(71's)-684(*)

I have been trying everything to figure our that code.. whether it was Cooper or a hoaxer..

One idea.. super long shot but cool.

One of the Cooper bills is  L 71717573 B

The code on the Cooper letter is 717171684*

shift cypher..  71717 (shift -1) 684 = 71717573

 

another idea was that it was a MGRS code.. 

the code points to a spot near Eugene Oregon..

 

But it could be anything...

 

fbi4609letter.jpeg.6920017c03022ba1b0f4cde28318fa3e.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, georger said:

You are saying the letter was typed by Gunther himself.

I wondered that also - plus to me there is something curious about the typewriter. It types like somebody's old favorite machine, over used and defective ......... like many writers still use today. I know authors today who still use their old favorite IBMs  even though they cant get parts for them. You would be surprised how stubborn some people are  to update their old habits and favorite old tools ... 

Well, I'm saying that if it's anyone's Freudian slip (which of course it might not be), it's more likely to Gunther's than someone referring to the first wife of the friend of the guy who worked in the same place as the guy who looks like the picture, or whatever the leap is. Any argument in favor of Dolores would be an even stronger argument in favor of Dorothy ("Dottie") Gunther.

Another element for the mix, which you hint at: Where did Cooper type his letters? The industrial sales person had a typewriter at home--an old one so used as to have damaged letters and other idiosyncracies? He carted a typewriter around with him over the years? That seems like a long-shot. 

There is a sort-of answer to this, which is that Clara was a secretary, so maybe, just maybe she had a second typewriter at home. (Not as common as we think, given the ubiquity of computers today.) But you know who else typed things for a living, and DEFINITELY had a typewriter at home....?

Also, it's notable to me that Gunther mentions, at least twice, the difference in typewriter from 10 years earlier to the Clara letter. Sure, it could just be an observation, but the odd part to me is that no one was suggesting she typed the first ones, so why wouldn't it be different? It should be, right? It's only worth noting the difference if you, the observer, know it was the same person typing both...

A couple of other items to throw out there: while another letter was sent out, guess who it went to? Gunther's editor-in-chief at True. All the newspapers and magazines in NYC, including the very one Cooper wanted an ad placed in, and the only two letters Cooper sent were to Gunther and-coincidentally--someone Gunther knew and had access to? And the letter to Gunther's editor went to the magazine, where Gunther's could have, but Gunther's went to a home address?

The only additional press contact was with someone else Gunther knew, and facilitated contact with (editor of Playboy Press).

When it came time for Clara to call someone, even though Cooper had also talked to Ed Kuhn (Playboy) and even though Mark Penzer (editor) had also placed an ad, just like Gunther, she only called Gunther.

Who is the common denominator in all this?

 

Edited by Math of Insects

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

Well, I'm saying that if it's anyone's Freudian slip (which of course it might not be), it's more likely to Gunther's than someone referring to the first wife of the friend of the guy who worked in the same place as the guy who looks like the picture, or whatever the leap is. Any argument in favor of Dolores would be an even stronger argument in favor of Dorothy ("Dottie") Gunther.

A couple of other items to throw out there: while another letter was sent out, guess who it went to? Gunther's editor-in-chief at True. All the newspapers and magazines in NYC, including the very one Cooper wanted an ad placed in, and the only two letters Cooper sent were to Gunther and-coincidentally--someone Gunther knew and had access to? And the letter to Gunther's editor went to the magazine, where Gunther's could have, but Gunther's went to a home address?

The only additional press contact was with someone else Gunther knew (editor of Playboy Press).

When it came time for Clara to call someone, even though Cooper had also talked to Ed Kuhn (Playboy) and even though Mark Penzer (editor) had also placed an ad, just like Gunther, she only called Gunther.

Who is the common denominator in all this?

Another element for the mix. Where did Cooper type his letters? The industrial sales person had a typewriter at home--an old one so used as to have damaged letters and other idiosyncracies? He carted a typewriter around with him over the years? That seems like a long-shot. 

There is a sort-of answer to this, which is that Clara was a secretary, so maybe, just maybe she had a second typewriter at home. (Not as common as we think, given the ubiquity of computers today.) But you know who else typed things for a living, and DEFINITELY had a typewriter at home....?

Finally, it's notable to me that Gunther mentions, at least twice, the difference in typewriter from 10 years earlier to the Clara letter. Sure, it could just be an observation, but the odd part to me is that no one was suggesting she typed the first ones, so why wouldn't it be different? It should be, right? It's only worth noting the difference if you, the observer, know it was the same person typing both...

 

If Gunther typed the letter as an elaborate hoax and made an incriminating typo, why not just type another letter. That is not Do, it is a double strike x and o over the D, it is possible the typist began D B Cooper in error. Whoever made the error did not see at as incriminating in any way. 

The contacts Gunther noted are the ones he knew of.. there could have been others he didn't know. 

The tab set/indentation is different between the "Cooper" letter and "Clara" letter.. I think that is user set,, lots of places to access typewriters,, Hotels, Schools and Libraries..

Of course, Max examined the letters to determine if they were done on the same typewriter.

When I was a little kid we had an old typewriter in the house.. rarely used. Keys always got stuck..

That Clara letter has a faded capital M... I need to check the letters in the FBI files..

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

If Gunther typed the letter as an elaborate hoax and made an incriminating typo, why not just type another letter. That is not Do, it is a double strike x and o over the D, it is possible the typist began D B Cooper in error. Whoever made the error did not see at as incriminating in any way. 

The contacts Gunther noted are the ones he knew of.. there could have been others he didn't know. 

The tab set/indentation is different between the "Cooper" letter and "Clara" letter.. I think that is user set,, lots of places to access typewriters,, Hotels, Schools and Libraries..

Of course, Max examined the letters to determine if they were done on the same typewriter.

When I was a little kid we had an old typewriter in the house.. rarely used. Keys always got stuck..

That Clara letter has a faded capital M... I need to check the letters in the FBI files..

 

 

 

 

Yes, I'm not at all convinced it was a Freudian slip. Why send it if it was? I was just addressing the "Dolores" suggestion. If it's anything typed by mistake, "Dorothy" is a lot closer to home.

I agree, these could be just the people he knew about. But the others would have known about themselves, yes? DB Cooper? Hot off his escapade? The premiere headline mystery of the day? That would be the "get" of the decade. They'd be clamoring for the story. But there's no clamor. That's notable.

There are other elements in the letters worth just bringing up: Cooper knew the standard 5-space indent at the beginning of paragraphs. (In those days, particularly for a typewriter of that apparent age, you just pressed "space" five times; later you could set tabs.) Interesting to me. Boys didn't take typing in school, which is where you learned this. So how did he come to know that little bit of inside knowledge? (That's a bigger anomaly than it feels like in an age where everyone types all day.)

However, for narrow sheets of paper, as Clara's letter to Himmelsbach was on, you used three. They got that right both times. I'd expect her to know it, but again, I have no idea why an industrial salesman would. Or rather, he flat-out would not. These are little things, but also not really. 

My comment about the typewriter is not so much that of course he examined them, but that twice he characterizes the difference as "newer." Really, it's just different. You'd expect it to be, right? It's two different people, 10 years apart. It's just another little thing that feels odd to mention.

All of it may be nothing, but for better or worse, spotting plagiarism has become a bit of a professional hazard at this point. There's always some phrase or bit of information that jumps out, and then the rest starts to wobble. You don't WANT to find it; it's soul-sapping when you do. But you also have to follow it when you do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Math of Insects said:

Yes, I'm not at all convinced it was a Freudian slip. Why send it if it was? I was just addressing the "Dolores" suggestion. If it's anything typed by mistake, "Dorothy" is a lot closer to home.

I agree, these could be just the people he knew about. But the others would have known about themselves, yes? DB Cooper? Hot off his escapade? The premiere headline mystery of the day? That would be the "get" of the decade. They'd be clamoring for the story. But there's no clamor. That's notable.

There are other elements in the letters worth just bringing up: Cooper knew the standard 5-space indent at the beginning of paragraphs. (In those days, particularly for a typewriter of that apparent age, you just pressed "space" five times; later you could set tabs.) Interesting to me. Boys didn't take typing in school, which is where you learned this. So how did he come to know that little bit of inside knowledge? (That's a bigger anomaly than it feels like in an age where everyone types all day.)

However, for narrow sheets of paper, as Clara's letter to Himmelsbach was on, you used three. They got that right both times. I'd expect her to know it, but again, I have no idea why an industrial salesman would. Or rather, he flat-out would not. These are little things, but also not really. 

My comment about the typewriter is not so much that of course he examined them, but that twice he characterizes the difference as "newer." Really, it's just different. You'd expect it to be, right? It's two different people, 10 years apart. It's just another little thing that feels odd to mention.

All of it may be nothing, but for better or worse, spotting plagiarism has become a bit of a professional hazard at this point. There's always some phrase or bit of information that jumps out, and then the rest starts to wobble. You don't WANT to find it; it's soul-sapping when you do. But you also have to follow it when you do. 

 

Gunther and the others he talked to thought the "Cooper" contact was a hoax..   

it wasn't until "Clara" that he thought it might be legit. So, they really didn't have anything to go on at that point. That "Cooper" suddenly disappeared would support the hoax idea.

For males, typing was taught in college and used in the military,, not for combat but "bureaucratic" personnel... lots of those. The FBI Cooper profile was some college and military..

Remember, Cooper was described as 45-50, intelligent and possibly some management.. lots of opportunity to learn to type.

But, yes, the "Cooper" letter writer seemed to be a trained typist though poor spelling.

Typewriter: I read it as newer condition not necessarily age.. newer age is obvious being 10 years later. The Cooper letter was done on a very worn out typewriter that needed repairs.. a piece of junk somebody had kicking around.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

If Gunther typed the letter as an elaborate hoax and made an incriminating typo, why not just type another letter. That is not Do, it is a double strike x and o over the D, it is possible the typist began D B Cooper in error. Whoever made the error did not see at as incriminating in any way. 

The contacts Gunther noted are the ones he knew of.. there could have been others he didn't know. 

The tab set/indentation is different between the "Cooper" letter and "Clara" letter.. I think that is user set,, lots of places to access typewriters,, Hotels, Schools and Libraries..

Of course, Max examined the letters to determine if they were done on the same typewriter.

When I was a little kid we had an old typewriter in the house.. rarely used. Keys always got stuck..

That Clara letter has a faded capital M... I need to check the letters in the FBI files..

 

 

 

 

Math of Insects joined specifically to refute the Gunther book. This could be just a focus on Gunther, or it could be to refute Weber, Smith, Hahneman, or anyone else associated with the book.  So anything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.  If he posted about other topics, I might think differently, but from my seat he is out to put down Gunther or suspects associated with the Gunther book, to include the Elsinore Ghost.

Bottom line is this.  Either Gunther made the whole thing up or he didn't.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been a pretty good back and forth, a good exploration so to speak on the different possibilities with different perspectives and inputs on this anomaly in the letter.  

I wasn't married to the Dolores option, was just positing the idea since the "Gunther" part of the Copper story has been linked to the WJS suspect and it was part of the discussion.  

But, as Math and Fly pointed out, certainly could be other options.  After this discussion, I tend to lean to maybe just a simple typo, after all the D is in close enough proximity to the C on the keyboard and nobody is perfect, may have just been a misguided finger strike.  

Now, as Fly mentioned, that he was going to check some of the other typed "Cooper" letters, that would be something if any could be linked to the Gunther letter.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

Dottie Gunther worked as an executive paralegal. It would be interesting to find any of the documents she might have typed at the time as well.

But the o is over the D not after.. Do wasn't typed.

This will never get solved.. IMO, it was far too risky for Gunther to perpetuate a hoax and take it to the FBI... if there was a hoax it was Cooper/Carla but why didn't Carla also ask for money... the agenda was to say Cooper was really a nice guy and he was dead.. 

Who gains from that..  the real Cooper or the FBI or ????

The "Cooper" motivation for a hoax is possible,,, money

But what hoax motivation is there for "Clara"??

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Gunther and the others he talked to thought the "Cooper" contact was a hoax..   

it wasn't until "Clara" that he thought it might be legit. So, they really didn't have anything to go on at that point. That "Cooper" suddenly disappeared would support the hoax idea.

For males, typing was taught in college and used in the military,, not for combat but "bureaucratic" personnel... lots of those. The FBI Cooper profile was some college and military..

Remember, Cooper was described as 45-50, intelligent and possibly some management.. lots of opportunity to learn to type.

But, yes, the "Cooper" letter writer seemed to be a trained typist though poor spelling.

Typewriter: I read it as newer condition not necessarily age.. newer age is obvious being 10 years later. The Cooper letter was done on a very worn out typewriter that needed repairs.. a piece of junk somebody had kicking around.

 

A modern FBI Lab might be able to determine the brand of typewriter, based on type style. They might also be able to compare this typed letter with others in their inventory. Once again the need for New evidence surfaces .... alas.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, georger said:

A modern FBI Lab might be able to determine the brand of typewriter, based on type style. They might also be able to compare this typed letter with others in their inventory. Once again the need for New evidence surfaces .... alas.  

The Cooper letter and Clara letter were typed on different models,, the numbers are different, specifically the 5.

So, the Cooper typewriter wasn't repaired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The Cooper letter and Clara letter were typed on different models,, the numbers are different, specifically the 5.

So, the Cooper typewriter wasn't repaired.

If any FOIAs come back on Gunther, we may be able to see what he actually sent to the FBI and cross reference that with his book entries.  Putting something in a novel and sending that info to the FBI are two very different things.

Getting Gunther's notes from his family seems to be an elusive task.

Plenty of families had typewriters, plenty of men knew how to type.  Flyjack's comment about someone in the military knowing how to type is accurate. 

We don't know if a woman typed that letter or if a man did.  We also don't know how long it took said person to type the letter, they very well could have written it out and then typed it by pecking at keys.  It's a long stretch to get deep analytical info out of it.  I'm guessing that the writer definitely used carbon paper so that he had a copy (hence the x out and not the use of whiteout).  That might be something to chew on.  Is there a copy of this letter sitting somewhere? The other letter "All of you" makes sense to have carbon paper used.  Back in 1972 access to copying type machines was low, I'm thinking those mimeograph machines may have been an option.

Broken or used up typewriter may not have indicated that it was owned by someone who used it a lot, it could just mean it was old, or cheap, or inexpensive and therefore a blue collar guy might own it.

If this happened today, the FBI would probably be able to trace the typewriter, as Georger alluded to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

But the o is over the D not after.. Do wasn't typed.

This will never get solved.. IMO, it was far too risky for Gunther to perpetuate a hoax and take it to the FBI... if there was a hoax it was Cooper/Carla but why didn't Carla also ask for money... the agenda was to say Cooper was really a nice guy and he was dead.. 

Who gains from that..  the real Cooper or the FBI or ????

The "Cooper" motivation for a hoax is possible,,, money

But what hoax motivation is there for "Clara"??

It's possible that you and I differ on what we perceive the benefit might be for the reporter that landed DB Cooper. BUT...in fact I'm not even sure I'm completely behind that being an "o." An argument in favor is that there is another partial "o" that is half-spaced just above, so that could explain this one being partial too. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it were just junk on the X, and it looks more defined than it otherwise would because of the reproduction. I'm agnostic on this.

If you ask me gut-feeling, I'd say the initial letters were an outside hoax and the book was a sly novel written by an author with a fascination for the topic. I do know that means being involved in sending a letter to the FBI in Clara's name later on, but I think 10 years later Gunther would not have had the same fear of recrimination, as compared to the benefit of getting the book published. 

Because I have assumed the letters were real, I wanted to see if there could be a case made for the opposite position. I did not expect to find one. But there are some anomalies I am now having trouble getting past. They don't have to mean Gunther wrote them--not in the least. But I do think they actually might give a clue into the origin, in one way or another.

In the interest of full disclosure, my first career before my current one was as an editor and writer in the publishing industry in New York. I did not overlap with the publication of this book, but missed it only by a couple of years. As a result, I have a fairly intimate knowledge of the kinds of things that were so "inside baseball" as to only be expected to be seen among others in the field--customs we had to be taught as editors, that you might not even expect the best of writers to get right, since in fact they're a bit arbitrary. 

One is how few people know how to punctuate titles in quotes. The instinct is to put the sentence punctuation on the outside, since it's not part of the title. This makes more sense than the actual (American) custom, and the only reason that even seasoned writers end up getting this right is as a result of having it corrected over and over. If you don't write for a living, you'd never have that error corrected, and (IMO) it's very unlikely that the same person who can't spell "marriage" could get this nuance correct by mistake. That stands out. Some guy filling out supply requisitions would never have had this arise, since no one along the way would ever have corrected it, or cared.

I've already mentioned some of the typewriter and usage factors. 

Do I really think Dottie wrote them, or that it's *more* likely that Gunther did, than an outside hoaxer? I don't. I think it was more likely a con from the outside. But I now consider it an open door that I'd need to see closed, in order to rule it out. (For example, just for myself, I tracked down Dottie's birthday...which is not March 2.) I think it's in the realm.

Flip side, as hard as I try, I just can't find a way to make the book seem legit, on balance. Because of my current career, I can't help but stumble on certain elements that raise insurmountable questions. I land out thinking it's a novel, very well constructed and pretty cool, but ultimately a well-informed product of the author's mind. 

I don't think this delegitimizes Gunther in the least. I have admiration for the endeavor. More power to him. But I can't find non-contrived-enough explanations for the certain elements there, that would allow them to be real. I think he researched the Cooper case, possibly spurred by that previous contact, and then decided to tell "Clara's" story.

FWIW, a fair number of elements of that story overlap with Gunther's own, including where he ended up living with Dottie. If you read the novel portion through the lens of Gunther's life, it reads differently. It's also worth mentioning that Gunther and Dottie both grew up within a couple of miles of WJSmith's neighborhood, and were the same age (by a year), so any coincidence of the names (which Gunther purports to have made up for the book) could be as strongly connected to Gunther's own background or memory, as the friend-of-a-friend-of-the-letter-writer's. 
 

I’ll lay off this dead horse now, and update if I find anything worth sharing. I don’t want to end up as Slim King lite! Thanks for engaging on it.
 

Edited by Math of Insects

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohhh....It's possible that rather than those letters being a hoax or a con, it was a prank. Someone who knew Gunther, from within the industry or magazine, punking him.

That answers every question, including that weird paragraph that fluffs him and correctly reproduces the title of his 10-year-old article, among other things.

Hmmmm.

Ok, NOW I will leave the horse alone.

Edited by Math of Insects
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Math of Insects said:

It's possible that you and I differ on what we perceive the benefit might be for the reporter that landed DB Cooper. BUT...in fact I'm not even sure I'm completely behind that being an "o." An argument in favor is that there is another partial "o" that is half-spaced just above, so that could explain this one being partial too. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it were just junk on the X, and it looks more defined than it otherwise would because of the reproduction. I'm agnostic on this.

If you ask me gut-feeling, I'd say the initial letters were an outside hoax and the book was a sly novel written by an author with a fascination for the topic. I do know that means being involved in sending a letter to the FBI in Clara's name later on, but I think 10 years later Gunther would not have had the same fear of recrimination, as compared to the benefit of getting the book published. 

Because I have assumed the letters were real, I wanted to see if there could be a case made for the opposite position. I did not expect to find one. But there are some anomalies I am now having trouble getting past. They don't have to mean Gunther wrote them--not in the least. But I do think they actually might give a clue into the origin, in one way or another.

In the interest of full disclosure, my first career before my current one was as an editor and writer in the publishing industry in New York. I did not overlap with the publication of this book, but missed it only by a couple of years. As a result, I have a fairly intimate knowledge of the kinds of things that were so "inside baseball" as to only be expected to be seen among others in the field--customs we had to be taught as editors, that you might not even expect the best of writers to get right, since in fact they're a bit arbitrary. 

One is how few people know how to punctuate titles in quotes. The instinct is to put the sentence punctuation on the outside, since it's not part of the title. This makes more sense than the actual (American) custom, and the only reason that even seasoned writers end up getting this right is as a result of having it corrected over and over. If you don't write for a living, you'd never have that error corrected, and (IMO) it's very unlikely that the same person who can't spell "marriage" could get this nuance correct by mistake. That stands out. Some guy filling out supply requisitions would never have had this arise, since no one along the way would ever have corrected it, or cared.

I've already mentioned some of the typewriter and usage factors. 

Do I really think Dottie wrote them, or that it's *more* likely that Gunther did, than an outside hoaxer? I don't. I think it was more likely a con from the outside. But I now consider it an open door that I'd need to see closed, in order to rule it out. (For example, just for myself, I tracked down Dottie's birthday...which is not March 2.) I think it's in the realm.

Flip side, as hard as I try, I just can't find a way to make the book seem legit, on balance. Because of my current career, I can't help but stumble on certain elements that raise insurmountable questions. I land out thinking it's a novel, very well constructed and pretty cool, but ultimately a well-informed product of the author's mind. 

I don't think this delegitimizes Gunther in the least. I have admiration for the endeavor. More power to him. But I can't find non-contrived-enough explanations for the certain elements there, that would allow them to be real. I think he researched the Cooper case, possibly spurred by that previous contact, and then decided to tell "Clara's" story.

FWIW, a fair number of elements of that story overlap with Gunther's own, including where he ended up living with Dottie. If you read the novel portion through the lens of Gunther's life, it reads differently. It's also worth mentioning that Gunther and Dottie both grew up within a couple of miles of WJSmith's neighborhood, and were the same age (by a year), so any coincidence of the names (which Gunther purports to have made up for the book) could be as strongly connected to Gunther's own background or memory, as the friend-of-a-friend-of-the-letter-writer's. 
 

I’ll lay off this dead horse now, and update if I find anything worth sharing. I don’t want to end up as Slim King lite! Thanks for engaging on it.
 

NO way Gunther would take the risk.. He wasn't your average struggling writer. He had a legit career for decades including Business Week and Time magazine, he wrote many books. The Cooper book didn't solve anything so what was he really accomplishing.. most readers thought it was a hoax or fiction. He didn't even claim it to be Cooper, though he believed it was. The book did nothing for his career and was outside his lane.

But, when you think about it, Gunther replied to the letter in the Village Voice in 1972, spoke to and named others that were contacted and gave info to the FBI when contacted by Clara..  that is some foresight and time lag to create a hoax book in 1985.. not to mention the risk to his reputation if caught/charged.

I just don't see Gunther committing a hoax here. IMO, he was contacted by Cooper/Clara.

Now, were they hoaxing him,, possibly.. that is what we are trying to determine.

IMO, the question is,, was he contacted by the real Cooper or hoaxers. 

Who would do a hoax like this,,, originally asking for money, disappearing for 10 years then not asking for money. It is bizarre even for hoaxers.

IMO, initially somebody wanted money then 10 years later somebody wanted Cooper to be dead..  

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The focus on the Cooper letter in Gunther's book goes back to earlier chunks of this thread, but let me suggest another theory that explains the "perfect recall" of the title of Gunther's original True Magazine article.

Gunther could have lost the original letter and tried to recreate it based on his own recollection. 

I doubt this is the case because it violates the Gunther's own ethics, but it's possible the publisher forced this on him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

The focus on the Cooper letter in Gunther's book goes back to earlier chunks of this thread, but let me suggest another theory that explains the "perfect recall" of the title of Gunther's original True Magazine article.

Gunther could have lost the original letter and tried to recreate it based on his own recollection. 

I doubt this is the case because it violates the Gunther's own ethics, but it's possible the publisher forced this on him.

Why would Gunther even publish suspicious UNPROVEN material on DB Cooper, of all things?  Why take the risk? What precisely is he contributing and to whom?  Nothing Gunther did or said lead to Cooper's apprehension or one new fact in the Cooper case. So what is his contribution - what is his motive?  It's newsy and adds to his resume, I guess. I guess he's entitled. He could have chosen a book on any number of topics .......... like the Dead Sea Scrolls or Elvis Presley ... Dolphins You Would Like ?  Surely he understood his book would be controversial, or did he care?    

Publishers cannot force unwilling authors to commit professional suicide - where is the payoff ?  Or, maybe Gunther was publishing for the Metaverse, years ahead of his time. ? Like Herschel Walker Candidate for US Senator is ?;P

 
Edited by georger
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

The focus on the Cooper letter in Gunther's book goes back to earlier chunks of this thread, but let me suggest another theory that explains the "perfect recall" of the title of Gunther's original True Magazine article.

Gunther could have lost the original letter and tried to recreate it based on his own recollection. 

I doubt this is the case because it violates the Gunther's own ethics, but it's possible the publisher forced this on him.

It could be as simple as LeClair keeping issues of True magazine in his garage. I acknowledge that citing a magazine from 9 years before is unusual, but I’ve seen many a garage with stacks and stacks of old magazines. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

47 47