DB Cooper

[Math of Insects 95]

A couple of thoughts about the typewriter and letter. First, whoever typed the letter knows about the type-writer's half-space function, since he or she uses it to insert the letter "s" in the word "di[s]apearing" [sic] in the third line of that middle paragraph. If that tail after the "x" is from a letter, it appears the typist intentionally half-spaced there--maybe trying to correct a mistake and then bailing and X'ing it out and trying again? Either way, I don't expect just anyone to know about half-spacing. 

Second, there are some idiosyncracies with that typewriter--some dirt on some letters, some worn-down parts of others, and it wouldn't surprise me too much if all that was just dirt on the X for the first strike, and then he went back to darken the X with a second strike, and as a result it just ended up looking like there was a letter (yes, an "o" if anything) underneath it.

Third: this letter is a weird mix of relatively sophisticated grammar and punctuation, and some comically bad spelling. It's hard to imagine someone knowing about parenthetical comma clauses, how to correctly punctuate titles within quotes, how and where to hyphenate words that break onto another line, and the like, who also wouldn't know how about the double letters in "apear" or "mariage" or "principaly," particularly when he gets those double letters correct in harder words ("sufficient," "successfully"). The spelling of the word "extrordinary" seems especially far-fetched for someone who (for example) knows that punctuation goes inside quotes, not outside. So I think whoever wrote it is messing with the reader a bit, and that cross-out at the end--a letter, a half-space with another letter, X'd out for maximum intrigue--could just be a troll.

Fourth, while plenty of men typed for various necessary purposes--filling out forms on the job, for example--it was not that common for men to type narrative letters like this. It was mostly "women's" work at the time. The exception would be certain professions like journalism. I'm not saying Gunther typed it, just it might give some clue into the person who sent it. I can't help but notice, though, how much of the letter is spent elevating Gunther and getting his articles and book titles correctly spelled and described. And a NY postmark.

Anyway..

Finally: Assuming Cooper typed and sent this, and was familiar enough with typewriters to know about half-spacing, and accustomed enough to typing to type a long narrative letter like this...and assuming the tie was Cooper's and the elemental profile can be trusted...it would be interesting to test and see what fragments might get sprayed off when the metal keys strike the inked ribbon of a typewriter. It would be an easy and unexpected way to explain the particles on the tie, and maybe even lock Cooper down to a particular industry or profession we hadn't considered before.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Math of Insects

[JAGdb 68]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Or perhaps he typed an "x" and an "o" to correct/hide the "D"

 

Sure, that's also a possibility.

[olemisscub 461]

Found two Himmelsbach doozies.... good grief that guy...

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 654]

It appears he typed an "x" half space then an "o" then double over the "x"

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Found two Himmelsbach doozies.... good grief that guy...

 

At some point there was a shift and the FBI really tried to sell, the Cooper died narrative..

[olemisscub 461]

I've seen Ralph say quite a bit, but freezing to death in midair and instant death under a deployed canopy were new to me...

[FLYJACK 654]

11 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I've seen Ralph say quite a bit, but freezing to death in midair and instant death under a deployed canopy were new to me...

Do you have the date on that?

As the years passed passed they became more aggressive claiming Cooper died.

[olemisscub 461]

10 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Do you have the date on that?

As the years passed passed they became more aggressive claiming Cooper died.

the one about the canopy was from 76 and the freezing to death in mid-air was from 91. Interestingly, despite being Mr. Doom, Ralph would often make statements about how he thought Cooper was a "50/50 shot" of surviving. I've found him saying that back in the early 70's and also still saying that in the 2010's before he died. 

[Math of Insects 95]

Wait a minute. Why would Cooper have read a woman's magazine, or know the first thing about an article, let alone the author of it, that appeared in one? Pre-internet age that would seem unheard of. 

Also, it seems odd that the charity he chose was publishing-related. That's pretty inside-baseball for most people. March of Dimes or the Jerry Lewis one or the Fresh Air Fund would seem far, far better known even to the best informed folks. 

Reading that letter again, with its paragraph-long fluffing of Gunther, sophisticated punctuation, and various other oddities--including the NY postmark--I don't even have confidence now that that first one was real. It feels more likely that Gunther, someone he knew, or someone in the same industry, wrote it. I understand there are some good arguments against this. But I can't make that letter seem plausibly from "Cooper"--even an outside hoaxer pretending to be him--anymore. 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Math of Insects

[FLYJACK 654]

45 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

Wait a minute. Why would Cooper have read a woman's magazine, or know the first thing about an article, let alone the author of it, that appeared in one? Pre-internet age that would seem unheard of. 

Also, it seems odd that the charity he chose was publishing-related. That's pretty inside-baseball for most people. March of Dimes or the Jerry Lewis one or the Fresh Air Fund would seem far, far better known even to the best informed folks. 

Reading that letter again, with its paragraph-long fluffing of Gunther, sophisticated punctuation, and various other oddities--including the NY postmark--I don't even have confidence now that that first one was real. It feels more likely that Gunther, someone he knew, or someone in the same industry, wrote it. I understand there are some good arguments against this. But I can't make that letter seem plausibly from "Cooper"--even an outside hoaxer pretending to be him--anymore. 

 

The charity was a ruse to get attention, he admitted that he really wanted the money..

and the "Cooper" was local to New York..

as for the article in a Women's mag, maybe he saw it at a Dr or Dentist office..

I don't think there is anything there to discount it..

[Jay Ritchie 3]

1 hour ago, Math of Insects said:

Wait a minute. Why would Cooper have read a woman's magazine, or know the first thing about an article, let alone the author of it, that appeared in one? Pre-internet age that would seem unheard of. 

 

I couldn't spot the reference to a womens magazine - would you be able to point me to where you noticed this?

[Math of Insects 95]

11 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The charity was a ruse to get attention, he admitted that he really wanted the money..

and the "Cooper" was local to New York..

as for the article in a Women's mag, maybe he saw it at a Dr or Dentist office..

I don't think there is anything there to discount it..

I agree that's possible. However, viewed solely through the lens of finding the simplest possible explanation, that one involves some contrivances (1971 working man decides to read "Ladies Home Journal" of all things while at the dentist, article about women who run away changes the course of his life forever and turns him into an acolyte of the author, he decides to hijack an airplane to make his plight heard, later writes to the author to let the author know how influential and inspirational he is). 

There are workable explanations that allow all the facts to be as they are purported; you make some of these arguments very compellingly. (I greatly appreciate your informed, no-BS take on this case.)

But for each of these explanations, there remain anomalies that need to be explained.

There is one explanation that does not involve multiple contrivances, though. That's the one I'm now coming to think has to be true.

The "lying to the FBI" angle holds some weight, but I don't find it inconsistent at all with someone committing a hoax. Someone is lying to someone, and knows it, and knows there could be consequences. At every stage it's a calculated risk.

There are little things that stick out in that letter. I'm happy to have them explained in a way that lets the letter be real, because I, personally, want it to be Cooper who contacted Gunther, so there are bread crumbs to follow. But as I follow those crumbs, they lead me somewhere else. 

Because of certain elements in that letter, I can't imagine a non-writer or non-editor producing it. Certainly not a trainyard manager...

[Math of Insects 95]

3 minutes ago, Jay Ritchie said:

I couldn't spot the reference to a womens magazine - would you be able to point me to where you noticed this?

In that very long middle paragraph--the one that gushes over Gunther and speaks informedly about his work, including correctly identifying the date and exact title and punctuation of a 9-year-old magazine article, down to correctly placing the comma within in the quotation marks. But he can't spell "extraordinary" correctly?

Can anyone on this board correctly relay the title, year, and author of a magazine article they read a decade ago, without Googling?

I am finding this far-fetched.

[FLYJACK 654]

15 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

I agree that's possible. However, viewed solely through the lens of finding the simplest possible explanation, that one involves some contrivances (1971 working man decides to read "Ladies Home Journal" of all things while at the dentist, article about women who run away changes the course of his life forever and turns him into an acolyte of the author, he decides to hijack an airplane to make his plight heard, later writes to the author to let the author know how influential and inspirational he is). 

There are workable explanations that allow all the facts to be as they are purported; you make some of these arguments very compellingly. (I greatly appreciate your informed, no-BS take on this case.)

But for each of these explanations, there remain anomalies that need to be explained.

There is one explanation that does not involve multiple contrivances, though. That's the one I'm now coming to think has to be true.

The "lying to the FBI" angle holds some weight, but I don't find it inconsistent at all with someone committing a hoax. Someone is lying to someone, and knows it, and knows there could be consequences. At every stage it's a calculated risk.

There are little things that stick out in that letter. I'm happy to have them explained in a way that lets the letter be real, because I, personally, want it to be Cooper who contacted Gunther, so there are bread crumbs to follow. But as I follow those crumbs, they lead me somewhere else. 

Because of certain elements in that letter, I can't imagine a non-writer or non-editor producing it. Certainly not a trainyard manager...

Maybe the letter writer is just trying to sell his story to Gunther by emphasizing elements that he believed would appeal to Gunther's ego, it may not be true at all..

That would work for the real Cooper or a hoaxer..

Edited October 11, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

2 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

In that very long middle paragraph--the one that gushes over Gunther and speaks informedly about his work, including correctly identifying the date and exact title and punctuation of a 9-year-old magazine article, down to correctly placing the comma within in the quotation marks. But he can't spell "extraordinary" correctly?

Can anyone on this board correctly relay the title, year, and author of a magazine article they read a decade ago, without Googling?

I am finding this far-fetched.

They are legit,,

Ladies Home Journal Jan 1971, Gunther article based on the 1962 one but reversed for women to disappear.
 

and

True mag Jan 1962, Gunther article referred to in the letter “Do-It-Yourself Divorce for Fed-Up Males”

I have them packed away somewhere...

Gunther also wrote for Playboy..

[Math of Insects 95]

Just now, FLYJACK said:

They are legit,,

Ladies Home Journal Jan 1971, Gunther article based on the 1962 one but reversed for women to disappear.
 

and

True mag Jan 1962, Gunther article referred to in the letter “Do-It-Yourself Divorce for Fed-Up Males”

I have them packed away somewhere...

Gunther also wrote for Playboy..

I believe and know they are legit.

I don't believe some guy remembered the exact date and idiosyncratic spelling of that article 10 years later, and that same guy happened to pick up Ladies Home Journal at the dentist 10 years later and stumble across another article by the same author. Or rather, I can believe it, but don't find it to be the least contrived among all possible explanations.

[Math of Insects 95]

9 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Maybe the letter writer is just trying to sell his story to Gunther by emphasizing elements that he believed would appeal to Gunther's ego, it may not true at all..

That would work for the real Cooper or a hoaxer..

I agree, that's a possibility. Though if you were the real Cooper, all you'd need to be is the real Cooper, to be a catch for any writer. 

There are workable possibilities, for sure. They just occupy more and more distant concentric circles away from the simplest one.

[FLYJACK 654]

15 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

I believe and know they are legit.

I don't believe some guy remembered the exact date and idiosyncratic spelling of that article 10 years later, and that same guy happened to pick up Ladies Home Journal at the dentist 10 years later and stumble across another article by the same author. Or rather, I can believe it, but don't find it to be the least contrived among all possible explanations.

It does make sense if Cooper for some time wanted to leave his family and disappear.. another clue is that the letter was sent to Gunther's old address, suggesting perhaps the writer had written to Gunther in the past.. an avid reader of True Magazine.

but I still believe if it was a hoax it wasn't Gunther but Cooper/Clara...

It is really hard to figure this out since you can't take anything too literally.. all participants have a motive to deceive or embellish.

Edited October 11, 2022 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 146]

Math of Insects continues to use the "simplest method" approach.  I bet "Occam's Razor" is next.  Maybe "confirmation bias." All of these are clichés.  This case is complex, you can't just pick the simplest answer, and if you could, we would have solved this already.  Analysts don't find the simplest answer, they review all possibilities, within reason.  Maybe not aliens, maybe not the CIA, but still we need to look at many possibilities.  

I have the Ladies Home Journal magazine and the True magazine.  That's part of researching, which is getting to know the author and what he's written.  My theory on the Ladies Home Journal is that Clara, the woman read it.  This seems to me that Clara knew all along that her man was involved in this.  Clara or no Clara, I suspect if Cooper had a wife then she knew something was amiss.  It could have been he was gone over that time, or he was hurt at that time, or he looked like the sketch.

I have theorized that Gunther may have talked to Cooper first and coached him on the letter, but I can't seem to get that to work.  Gunther would have had to lie to the FBI, make up a quote from Himmelsbach, lie about the other journalists.  Regardless, the information points to Clara/LeClair being real, whether they are Cooper remains to be seen.

The real Dan Clair had heart disease, died of it.

[Math of Insects 95]

56 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It does make sense if Cooper for some time wanted to leave his family and disappear.. another clue is that the letter was sent to Gunther's old address, suggesting perhaps the writer had written to Gunther in the past.. an avid reader of True Magazine.

but I still believe if it was a hoax it wasn't Gunther but Cooper/Clara...

It is really hard to figure this out since you can't take anything too literally.. all participants have a motive to deceive or embellish.

The other odd element is that NYT Neediest Cases Fund request. I understand that in the end it was just bluster, but even today, if you stopped 50 NYers in the street and asked each one to name five charities, I'd put money on none of the 250 options being the NYT NCF. (I am from NY.) Maybe it's just Hans Gruber in Die Hard tossing out some official-sounding request to send people off on a goose chase, but that's still a very insidery option to have chosen. Putting that together with the well-edited letter with skilled typing and punctuation, plus the NY postmark, it feels far more "publishing company" than "machine-shop."

[FLYJACK 654]

19 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

The other odd element is that NYT Neediest Cases Fund request. I understand that in the end it was just bluster, but even today, if you stopped 50 NYers in the street and asked each one to name five charities, I'd put money on none of the 250 options being the NYT NCF. (I am from NY.) Maybe it's just Hans Gruber in Die Hard tossing out some official-sounding request to send people off on a goose chase, but that's still a very insidery option to have chosen. Putting that together with the well-edited letter with skilled typing and punctuation, plus the NY postmark, it feels far more "publishing company" than "machine-shop."

Not sure, what was the NCFund awareness in 1971-72 for NYTimes readers?? I don't really know anything about New York life circa 1972,,,

It supports other evidence for "Cooper" being in New York..

Did the NYTimes have a personal message section? or were there any other New York publications with a personal message section other than Village Voice??

[Math of Insects 95]

Would anyone like to hazard a guess at what Max Gunther's wife's name was?

Dorothy.

Do_____.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[CooperNWO305 146]

18 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Not sure, what was the NCFund awareness in 1971-72 for NYTimes readers?? I don't really know anything about New York life circa 1972,,,

It supports other evidence for "Cooper" being in New York..

Did the NYTimes have a personal message section? or were there any other New York publications with a personal message section other than Village Voice??

1972. 13,000 donors. Over $1M. If you read the NYT you probably knew about the     fund. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/1972/03/01/archives/neediest-cases-winds-up-appeal-1020763-in-times-fund-is-below.html

[FLYJACK 654]

16 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

Would anyone like to hazard a guess at what Max Gunther's wife's name was?

Dorothy.

Do_____.

Curiouser and curiouser.

I don't think it is Do..  the o is half way over over the D not a regular spacing.

It looks like a D then an x over it and a half space o with the x double struck.

That suggests the x and o was typed to cover the D..

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by FLYJACK

[georger 194]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I don't think it is Do..  the o is half way over over the D not a regular spacing.

It looks like a D then an x over it and a half space o with the x double struck.

That suggests the x and o was typed to cover the D..

 

The typist had no eraser, and the machine was defective. ....