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DB Cooper

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Duanes - supposed Army Record:
March 31, 1943 to July 14, 1943 - did he get kicked out of the army or did they put him in a SPECIAL program..

Was he in prison - nope not until 1945.
April of 1943 a specialized Training program was made available for those who did NOT fit....seemingly else where.

This was Army Mountain Training Center and the 10th Mountain Division....don't get hung up here. There was prisoners there also! I finally figure this out - but, quiet by accident. I knew Duane had talked about this place and pointed out things about it - like he had been there, but I was unaware that prisoners were also housed there and co-mingled.

A man Duane highly admired was stationed there - a man he spoke of. I knew little of Weber's background.

I now believe Duane knew this man thru his Great Aunt in Canada who was Swedish. I have some place a picture of her and of her grave...evidently Duane went to Canada - Montreal or where-ever.
I will have to find that picture and of her and the grave stone... since it was something Duane had - I think it is the key to the past & to his connections.

This part is very confusing....was Duane military, questionable or a renegade from March 31, 1943 to July 14, 1943...problem is they only mentioned 2 month at Camp Siebert - did he get sent to Colorado in May & was he in Colorado in a form of encarceration until his official release in July....or did he remain encarcerated they until the next date he show up on.

Some how in all of this is the Columbia encarceration at a boys school, from which he seemingly escaped - even the governent could never prove where he was util he ended up in CA and got sent to Mc Neil...but he was on the run - they couldn't seem to tie him down..

Records seemly a shambles as he escaped - but where the hell was he.
Hiding in Plain site or sitting in jail someplace else...he was young & they needed the labor - & from what I do know about Duane's past - I believe this is were he was.

Can anyone find out the name of the man in the picture I will attach...I know it was made in CO and that one of the individuals was a young man who went to Operation Market Garden and was wounded - I knew this man's histor without even reading about him.

Duane had told me about this man, but i would not realize that until I saw this photo...I do not know if the man on the left is Weber - but he sure looks like Weber did in photo close to that time...but he has on a uniform.

I was thinking maybe it was during that time for the 2 months plus after he was sent out of Camp Siebert...if this man is him - he has on a uniform. I expect the wayward men there did more than labor...perhaps enticed to change their lives. I also believe that they man Duane went to see in Seattle may have been related to the man who became a hero and an accomplished person.

Like Duane he was a swimmer - some how Duane and this man knew each other on a personal basis. Remember that the man Duane went to see in WA in 1979 was Swedish also...like Aluana or Aluna or Alana - he worked in an office not far from the hotel we stayed in - it was supposedly in the same building that housed a News Paper or the guy worked for the New Paper in Seattle.

Duane's past is convoluted & like a jigsaw puzzle.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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"... I believe the hijacker...selected the military chute, and seemed to know what he was doing with it...."



What military chute, Bobby?

You have yet to establish that a military chute, whether it be an NB-6 or an NB-8, was ever on Flight 305.

What's your proof, and how did you draw you conclusion?

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"... I believe the hijacker...selected the military chute, and seemed to know what he was doing with it...."




So, you believe Earl Cossey? You think he told the truth about providing a military chute?

How come?

So, do you think that Cooper used Coss' NB-6, or was it the NB-8? How do you chose between the two, since Coss said he provided both at different times to different people.

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The McNeil File is a puzzle - there were NO longer any picture available...I am the one who found them - the FBI claimed they did NOT exist & the agent changes his mind & they do exist.

January of 23rd 1945 conviced & sentenced to McNeil (normally a federal prison at that time).

He had been arrested in Chicago in November of 25th of 1944 & transported back to CA.

I guess he went back to see the woman he married in July of 1943 - maybe she was pregnant & gave birth to a child in 1944 which would be about right for the child I have looked for all of these yrs. She would have been named Zona. Rumor had it Duane also had a son - but not something he told me. The McNeil records also an have an erroneous birth date of 6-18-20 as it was 6-18-24.

Since I am way off base I will even take a stab at why he chose Nov. 24th...he was born in the yr 1924 it was Nov. 25 1944 when he was sentenced and sent to McNeil.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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BruceSmith

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"... I believe the hijacker...selected the military chute, and seemed to know what he was doing with it...."




So, you believe Earl Cossey? You think he told the truth about providing a military chute?

How come?

So, do you think that Cooper used Coss' NB-6, or was it the NB-8? How do you chose between the two, since Coss said he provided both at different times to different people.



I don't base my opinion on what COSSEY says, Bruce. I based it on the FBI document, which describes the chutes that were given to Cooper.

Oh...I put up a more complete article on the Boyce incident on my column at Newsvine. What the heck. He's out of jail, off parole, has the new book out. Figured it was time to come clean about what happened that day so long ago. :)


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I know details and accuracy aren't important to some folks that have a habit of just throwing any ole thing out there, but just to set the record straight.....

Robert, You said that Bruce did not "steal" the parachute document from Gray and that the document has been on the vault for years. Then you gave the impression that you presented it here to uncover some truth.
If you can prove otherwise from the below please do.

The parachute document was originally posted here at the dropzone as a jpg attachment of a screenshot, by 377 who received it from snowmman.

I posted a link to the actual pdf shortly thereafter. The pdf originated from Geoff Grays Hunt for DB Cooper web site project files which apparently he inadvertently? or not? left unprotected. After it was posted here, and set off a LOT of discussion, Gray closed access and, if memory serves, proceeded to post an article about it on his website.

So.... since it was not found anywhere else I'm assuming Geoff copied it from the FBI files (those same files that you said he didn't copy and was only able to look at), and Bruce likely got it from either Geoff's site or here.

Apparently, since Geoff is walking around free and hasn't been charged with purloining/distributing classified government property and/or "active case file data", I will also assume that he didn't steal it and/or had permission to copy it.

Either way -- the only FBI vault that I am aware of related to Mr. Cooper "primarily" has a bunch of useless stuff like newspaper articles many of which are basically unreadable excerpts that you can read a lot easier elsewhere. Even the money list is easier viewed in Tosaw's book if you are inclined to go looking for old twenties. Pretty sure that vault has never contained the parachute document. Those same 7 pdfs have been there forever.

And....just a reminder...what everyone thought was "found" news that had never been uncovered before (just like the Dan Cooper comic connection) was actually reported on in newspaper articles before the internet was a twinkle in Al Gore's eye.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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I know details and accuracy aren't important to some folks that have a habit of just throwing any ole thing out there, but just to set the record straight.....

Robert, You said that Bruce did not "steal" the parachute document from Gray and that the document has been on the vault for years. Then you gave the impression that you presented it here to uncover some truth.
If you can prove otherwise from the below please do.



Checking all seven of the Vault files, I don't see it in there. Guess it did not come from the Vault after all. I thought that was the source, since I have drawn an item or two from it previously, such as the John Doe warrant, etc.

Hard to say where I got the original then. Admittedly, people do send me a lot of Cooper-related stuff. Maybe from one of those sources, I don't know. I do remember when I first saw it, I thought it was kind of hard to read. Crooked photocopy stuff. So I retyped it.

Really, I don't care about 'who found it first,' but only the material contained within it. At least I made it a bit easier to read. If Bruce 'stole' it from Gray and Gray was the original holder of the file...works for me. This is small potatoes stuff and I'm not looking for some personal credit on the original source here.

I'm just glad the file existed. :)
I don't know about 'uncovering' anything. The article is pretty plain on who actually owned and delivered the chutes. And obviously it wasn't Earl Cossey. One minor delivery point might be wrong, otherwise I think it is correct.


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If the pics are too big I will delete..

The main point that I see in all of this at the end of the day is that there is decent documentation that Cossey at least packed the parachutes.
In that sense they were "his" chutes and he was the "go to" guy because he packed them and he was the "master rigger" with knowledge of parachutes. As I've said before I think the fish got bigger and bigger and why let a few details spoil a good story. LOL -- why some folks on here would have a problem with that is beyond me. :D

It also looks like his name is on the chest container. Someone with better eyes than I will have to come up with the date though for some reason I think I see Oct 1953.


[inline Parachute_Bag.jpg]

[inline PBcloseup.jpg]
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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Switlik model 48c7155:

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Drawing 48C7155, Canopy and Pack Assembly – Parachute, Chest Type



Drawing by Dave Gold, one of literally thousands of parachute-related items now at Wright.edu in their Dave Gold Parachute Collection. You can find the PDF by searching on Dave Gold, etc. Date of the drawing by Gold is 1948. So your guess at 1953 could be correct.

First thing I thought when I saw the massive, literally unending list of Gold's parachute-related collection was this: I'll bet every jumper at DZ already knows this guy. He might even have reached godlike status by now. I think Wright actually has a museum for his stuff. I saw something about the boxes they keep it all in stretched out over a hundred feet in length.


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RobertMBlevins

Switlik model 48c7155:

Quote

Drawing 48C7155, Canopy and Pack Assembly – Parachute, Chest Type



Drawing by Dave Gold, one of literally thousands of parachute-related items now at Wright.edu in their Dave Gold Parachute Collection. You can find the PDF by searching on Dave Gold, etc. Date of the drawing by Gold is 1948. So your guess at 1953 could be correct.

First thing I thought when I saw the massive, literally unending list of Gold's parachute-related collection was this: I'll bet every jumper at DZ already knows this guy. He might even have reached godlike status by now. I think Wright actually has a museum for his stuff. I saw something about the boxes they keep it all in stretched out over a hundred feet in length.



Yes, I think it is a fairly well-known collection if you've ever searched for the words parachute and history in the same string. The mother lode, but I think the problem is finding much on line (other than the index of what's in the collection at Wright).
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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Maybe I might be able to come back tomorrow...just feel very very tired.
I have some important things to post I have tried to compose off line - just wanted it to be complete.-
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Oh, sure. On Cossey? I agree he packed the chutes and all. No problem there. I just keep wondering why he wrote off the Amboy chute with that silk claim? Accepting that explanation is like trying to swallow a damn golf ball. Neither he or the FBI could come up with any other reason at ALL? Cossey picks the most unlikely reason, to boot. Wrong size, cargo chute, whatever. Silk? 'And the one I gave to Cooper was made of ripstop nylon...'

I don't know. The whole thing sucks. And then someone killed the poor guy anyway. And I hope they catch the asshole who did it. We've gone around a lot on this thread about Cossey, but no one wished him a fate like that.

(*Robert thinks to himself: I'd better stop right there or I'll start ranting on how poor a job the KCSO does on major cases, and how they blew off my map showing all recent burglaries within a two/three block radius of Cossey's house...)

No one liked my Falcon Confession? I just figured you'd want to hear something non-Cooper (or especially NON-KENNY) for a change. Even I get tired of talking about THAT guy.

You guys are a tough crowd. B|


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"... I believe the hijacker...selected the military chute, and seemed to know what he was doing with it...I don't base my opinion on what COSSEY says, Bruce. I based it on the FBI document, which describes the chutes that were given to Cooper...."



And you believe the FBI and this document because, why? Because they are the FBI and the FBI never lies, always gets things right and never makes mistakes?

That FBI, or the real one?

You know, the FBI that welcomed Cossey into their ranks, structured their investigation around his pronouncements, anointed him the official go-to-guy for all media parachute questions - like your fave Amboy chute - and then walked away from him when he got whacked?

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"...The article is pretty plain on who actually owned and delivered the chutes. And obviously it wasn't Earl Cossey. One minor delivery point might be wrong, otherwise I think it is correct..."



Okay, Bobby, so now you're saying that Cooper's chutes were Hayden's, and not Cossey's.

Yet, Hayden says he sent two identical civilian 26' Pioneers to Sea-Tac.

So where did the "military" NB-8 come from?

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BruceSmith

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"...The article is pretty plain on who actually owned and delivered the chutes. And obviously it wasn't Earl Cossey. One minor delivery point might be wrong, otherwise I think it is correct..."



Okay, Bobby, so now you're saying that Cooper's chutes were Hayden's, and not Cossey's.

Yet, Hayden says he sent two identical civilian 26' Pioneers to Sea-Tac.

So where did the "military" NB-8 come from?



Okay...now you are quoting someone without a source. This is how digital voice recorders or vid cams come in handy. I have Hayden...who has seen the FBI document and has a copy in a frame at his office...tell me it is basically accurate. And there is the FBI document as well, which describes the chutes reasonably well. You will have to provide proof that Hayden actually claims this, you know. There are also other references out there showing there were two different chutes, some naming the chutes listed in the document. You're the only one I've seen claiming they were the same, and putting someone else's mouth behind it. (Norman Hayden) Proof will be required to overturn a very basic part of the hijacking, I would think.

And why are you asking me this stuff anyway? It's not like I made all this up on my own, you know. Why don't you try going to the source once in a while? Seattle FBI...second interview with Hayden where you record him or something. :S


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RobertMBlevins

***

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"...The article is pretty plain on who actually owned and delivered the chutes. And obviously it wasn't Earl Cossey. One minor delivery point might be wrong, otherwise I think it is correct..."



Okay, Bobby, so now you're saying that Cooper's chutes were Hayden's, and not Cossey's.

Yet, Hayden says he sent two identical civilian 26' Pioneers to Sea-Tac.

So where did the "military" NB-8 come from?



Okay...now you are quoting someone without a source. This is how digital voice recorders or vid cams come in handy. I have Hayden...who has seen the FBI document and has a copy in a frame at his office...tell me it is basically accurate. And there is the FBI document as well, which describes the chutes reasonably well. You will have to provide proof that Hayden actually claims this, you know.

So now you're saying that Hayden has reversed himself, and now accepts that he sent a "military" NB-8 to Sea-Tac, and never knew he did so for 40 years until he talked with you?

Can you prove that?

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"...now you are quoting someone without a source. This is how digital voice recorders or vid cams come in handy. I have Hayden...



I have Hayden as my source, too!

Funny how life works, eh?

So, do you think Norm lied to me, or I just mucked-up my notes and Bruce Thun was busy talking with Norm and didn't see my confusion?

Or, do you think I'm making this stuff up?

Oh, and what's your source for your opinion? Or is it just a fact-less opinion.

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Okay. I'm out for now. My name isn't Norman Hayden, and I certainly am not the Seattle FBI. You should be asking THEM these questions.

Let me put it another way. Until you can prove that the backpack chutes given to Cooper were not the ones stated in the FBI document by John Detlor, then I will believe Detlor. Come on, Bruce. That's a pretty big claim. You'll have to come up with some proof the chutes were the same besides 'Cause Hayden told me'. Maybe you should interview him a second time.

UPDATE: I thought Christopher Boyce would be angry with me for that Newsvine article. His wife has already seen it, and made this comment at Newsvine to the article:

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'What a great article! I absolutely enjoyed this AND the walk down memory lane. Chris's memory is fuzzy about those "on the run" days so many years ago and it's nice to hear them from someone else who lived them. Thanks Mr. Blevins!

-Cait Boyce'



I replied that I thought they would be angry at me. I'm glad they weren't. I was seriously worried. :$

(If you're wondering if the comment is real, all users at Newsvine must sign up to post, create articles, link outside news articles, or even comment on anything. Users' profiles, their actual column at Newsvine, and their posting history are easily viewed by other members. I discovered Cait actually created her own account at Newsvine, just to make the comment.) How nice is that? I would say very nice. Well...I did send the link to the article to their email and that may have had something to do with it. ;)

If you really want to know me, you should be viewing my Facebook page, not Dropzone. That is where I really hang out, but it is Friends Only for sure. I am one of the few users at Facebook who actually KNOWS the people I accept as friends. Every single one.


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I miss one day and come back to two pages of factual discussion on Cooper. Nice!

King BS, you posted the file. Good on you mate. Now up your meds and tell us whom you think, sorry hypothesize, whacked Cossey. FBI contract killer? You're always dissin' the bungling FBI and now you hypothesize they're smart enough to use and whack Cossey? Make up your mind BS.

Isn't the NB6/NB8 chutes you keep talking about actually just the description of the containers?

I might actually buy your book and read chapter 8 before you go all chapter 11. See what I did right there BS? ;) I'm learning!

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Reichenbach

I miss one day and come back to two pages of factual discussion on Cooper. Nice!

King BS, you posted the file. Good on you mate. Now up your meds and tell us whom you think, sorry hypothesize, whacked Cossey. FBI contract killer? You're always dissin' the bungling FBI and now you hypothesize they're smart enough to use and whack Cossey? Make up your mind BS.

Isn't the NB6/NB8 chutes you keep talking about actually just the description of the containers?

I might actually buy your book and read chapter 8 before you go all chapter 11. See what I did right there BS? ;) I'm learning!



I don't want to be too hard on Bruce. There's no doubt he has tried to question a lot of people in the Cooper case and has raised a few issues. But there is no BASELINE going here. In order to discover the truth on more important issues, you have to accept some reasonably established things as fact...without trying to toss conspiracy theories into everything.

Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, believe it or not. Just seems like it occasionally. Sometimes people just act human and make mistakes. The idea is to discover the difference between that, or whether people did something untoward deliberately. That will lead you to the truth.

Just blasting away blindly with a 12-gauge packed with 'Everyone's lying and it's all a conspiracy' buckshot is the recipe of someone who not only isn't objective...but doesn't do solid sources.


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Reichenbach

I miss one day and come back to two pages of factual discussion on Cooper. Nice!

King BS, you posted the file. Good on you mate. Now up your meds and tell us whom you think, sorry hypothesize, whacked Cossey. FBI contract killer? You're always dissin' the bungling FBI and now you hypothesize they're smart enough to use and whack Cossey? Make up your mind BS.

Isn't the NB6/NB8 chutes you keep talking about actually just the description of the containers?

I might actually buy your book and read chapter 8 before you go all chapter 11. See what I did right there BS? ;) I'm learning!



Y'all put a smile on my face, Rikes. Way to go!

Yes, NB-6, etc is just a designation for the container. Inside could be LOTS of different stuff, like a C-9 Military canopy that is suggested by Mr. Three-Seven-Seven, or even a civilian chute, such as a Steinthal.

As for speculatin' on who whacked Coss, I'd go with a freelance pro on a one-time contract basis. If I had to put money on it, I'd say Serbian or Russian. Somebody white, male, tall and inconspicuous for a upper-middle class neighborhood in the suburbs.

Scenario #2. Local punk who is violent and vicious, and lives with his mother. As Jo and I discussed, we believe that Momma found Coss' wallet in Sonny-Boy pants and mailed the cards back to the family, as she was trying to do the right thing. She did it on the Q-T so that her Sonny would not find out and whack his mommy.

I, like Bobby, joked with the KCSO about the case, and PIO Sgt West didn't laugh when, in the face of weeks-worth of delays from the KCSO, I suggested that NCIS would have picked up the fingerprints and DNA from the cards, envelopes and stamps in 42 minutes.

She didn't even chuckle.

By the way, Rikesie, I think we need to consider a terminology change. I get confused when you post something as BS. Perhaps it would be better if you would use BAS, such as King BAS, when you want to address me directly, and BS when you merely want to offer your opinion on what I say.

Such as: That's a Bunch of BS, King BAS.

Just a thought.

Lastly, Scenario #2 kind of let's the FBI off the hook for whackin' Coss, but I could work in the MKULTRA angle - you know a young kid hypnotized to smack Cossey in the head with a pipe wrench.

I mean, that was the purpose of spending all that taxpayer money for decades - get guys to do the dirty work and not get PTSD because they can't remember anything.

Anyways, greetings from Diaper Mt. Glad to have you back. Where were you? Was sex involved? Just askin'...

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"...I don't want to be too hard on Bruce. There's no doubt he has tried to question a lot of people in the Cooper case and has raised a few issues.... But...Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, believe it or not. Just seems like it occasionally. Sometimes people just act human and make mistakes. The idea is to discover the difference between that, or whether people did something untoward deliberately...."



Exactly Bobby! Thank you!!!

The FBI made plenty of mistakes. Now, we're trying to ascertain why, and if the act of goofing-up compels anyone to cover it up.

Then, there is the more systematic and deliberate conspiracy that is configured and planned, and in Norjak that has yet to confirmed with any concrete evidence.

As a result, we are in the process of sifting the tea leaves of evidence.

SO, were the cigarette butts lost on purpose, or did some jerk just throw them away?

Or, was Cossey just a guy hungry for fame and had a Big Mouth, or was he an opportunist that smart guys at the Bureau put to work to Serve A Higher Good?

Were 18 guys actually sitting in Row 18, or did someone make a clerical error?

Did Larry Carr really believe everything that Cossey said, or was Larry just a pretty face and had trouble trying his shoes?

Did the feds find thousands of shards at T-Bar, or did they miscount? Remember, most special agents weren't math major, but rather attorneys.

By the way, Bobby, maybe you could ask your friend at the Bureau, Freddie-the-Teddie-Gutt, if he can find the thousands of shards that Himms say are in Seattle, but the CS and GG couldn't find?

Just askin'.

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