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DB Cooper

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skyjack71

***

But you are still full of baloney when you claim that US Government employees, including Air Traffic Controllers and FBI agents, couldn't purchase additional life insurance through the US Government itself.

This is additional to the life insurance that was included in their basic employment benefits package.

Robert99



A news FLASH for U. The additional insurance was underwritten by such companies as the one I have noted.
The premium was high, but they were NOT declined.



Jo, A news FLASH for U! The US Government self-insures. Its employee life insurance policies are not underwritten by commercial companies.

Robert99

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General Service Announcement



A 42 year-old woman died at the Tacoma Narrows Bridge today. Police have ruled the death a suicide.

The TN Bridge, a tall span crossing high above a narrow spit of Puget Sound, is a frequently mentioned site of intentional death at the DZ and elsewhere.

The Washington State Patrol, the same cops who delivered the front chutes to Sea-Tac, airport, only a few miles away, made the identification of the jumper and notified media.

The WSP say the deceased was from Lakewood, WA, and that she left from the eastbound span - the old structure built a long time ago to replace the infamous Galloping Gertie. The original structure collapsed in a storm due to destructive harmonics triggered by the fierce winds believed to have exceeded 100 mph, or 125 knots.

The status of her life insurance policy, if she had one, is unknown publicly at this time.

Lakewood is also the home of McChord Air Base, now known as Joint Base Lewis McChord, and is known by its acronym, JBLM. McChord is also the home of the F-106s used to trail DB Cooper on his getaway flight 43 years ago.

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Robert99

******

But you are still full of baloney when you claim that US Government employees, including Air Traffic Controllers and FBI agents, couldn't purchase additional life insurance through the US Government itself.

This is additional to the life insurance that was included in their basic employment benefits package.

Robert99



A news FLASH for U. The additional insurance was underwritten by such companies as the one I have noted.
The premium was high, but they were NOT declined.



Jo, A news FLASH for U! The US Government self-insures. Its employee life insurance policies are not underwritten by commercial companies.

Robert99

Note so I screwed up the whatever for Air Traffic control ... you knew what I meant & so did others.

The government provides insurance, but if the person want supplemental insurance they have to purchase it on their own.

I explained that the Air Traffic Controller had insurance based on their income, but when their hours were cut so was their income and the insurance is often based based on income. When they went to regular companies they were denied supplemental insurance based on their employment.

If they wanted more coverage to cover the gaps they had to purchase it from companies that took HIGH RISK occupations, but at an extremely high rate depending on their occupation and recreational risk.

The company I mentioned provided the supplemental policies...but these policies were supplements for what they qualified with the government.

Yes, these companies were misleading making it appear the were sanctioned by the Government - but what it was - was a HIGH RISK supplemental policy.

YOU seemingly ignore that the insurance the goverment provided was based on income. NOT sufficient insurance to cover their needs. Most high risk came back with moderate increases over the normal - but not so with Air Traffic Controllers.

Air traffic controllers are HIGH risk or they were in 1971....the government did not offer enough in most cases to pay off the mortages on their homes in the event of death. These guys did not qualify for additional LIFE insurance outside of what the goverment provide - other than high risk policies...

WHAT do you not GET about that?So I screwed up the initials - but most of the time I type with a tremendous amount of pain...due to an incident with my hand.

Evidently you have never been married and did not have a wife & children who you wanted to protect with enough money to provide their continued life style...if you were no longer in the picture & your income was no longer there.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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BruceSmith

Quote

"...do you REALLY want to know if you're right about Tina Bar and the flight path? Then why don't you just ask the co-pilot? He will talk to you..."




What do you think Rataczak will say to Robert Nine-Nine? What he told me? What he told Jo? What he told Himmelsbach? What he told Skippy?

Or something new?

By the way, Bobby, how come you haven't called Rataczak?



Because Skipp Porteous already interviewed him...because I'm not trying to verify the validity of the flight path map on the FBI's website...and because he never saw the hijacker, so he can't identify Cooper. Frankly, I don't have any relevant questions for him.

Your comment on the suicide victim's insurance policy status was irrelevant. Life insurance policies don't pay off if you take a self-induced header off the Narrows Bridge.


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RobertMBlevins



Because Skipp Porteous already interviewed him...because I'm not trying to verify the validity of the flight path map on the FBI's website...and because he never saw the hijacker, so he can't identify Cooper. Frankly, I don't have any relevant questions for him.



Blevins a few yrs ago you claimed you did talk to the co-pilot. Did U not do post on that supposed interview?

Maybe you had brain fart! Maybe I imagined your posting about your encounter with the co-pilot. My memory is starting to fail me with all of the stress I have been under recently.

I thought you made a post related to the interview and it was done in this thread.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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No...I was considering calling him up. I got his phone and address to do this. Later, I decided not to because I figured out I just didn't have any questions for him.

Quote

Blevins,

You are totally unaware of what has been going on in the DB Cooper matter for about the last two years. But it has nothing to do with KC or Duane Weber.

And we are headed towards the "real source" as you call it.

Robert99



Really? Nothing like being condescending there. It's not 'as I call it'. It's REALITY. You want to know where the flight was at a given time...you go to either the pilot or the co-pilot. Unfortunately, Captain Scott has passed away. You've been pushing this '305 overflew Tina Bar and That's How The Money Got There and That's How Cooper Died' theory for more than a year.

And it only occurred to you now to approach co-pilot Bill Rataczak about it? A guy whose recent talk to Northwest History Museum patrons on his Cooper experiences is available on DVD at their website?

When you refer to 'we' you include some folks who not only are outright hate-mongers, but have been banned from Dropzone for their actions and/or posts.

So save your condescending stuff for someone else. When people engage in trashing others or hateful posts...that's the point where I no longer take them seriously. Or the people who support them.

It goes to CREDIBILITY, Robert. My advice is you stop listening to...and cease supporting anyone investigating the case who engages in hate-mongering or personal attacks. No one will take you seriously because they will realize you have a slanted agenda. The truth, when people do that, is secondary to other things. And people see through that stuff easier than you might believe.


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Hey guys... I dropped onto this zone as I was researching for Dan Cooper for making a comic strip.
Thanks for all inputs, I greatly enjoyed reading it and will keep dropping in every once in a while.

Here's a summarized version of the comic strip if you wanna have a look:


https://thousandthingsinmyhead.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/d-b-cooper-part-2/

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thousandthings

Hey guys... I dropped onto this zone as I was researching for Dan Cooper for making a comic strip.
Thanks for all inputs, I greatly enjoyed reading it and will keep dropping in every once in a while.

Here's a summarized version of the comic strip if you wanna have a look:


https://thousandthingsinmyhead.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/d-b-cooper-part-2/


An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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skyjack71

*********

But you are still full of baloney when you claim that US Government employees, including Air Traffic Controllers and FBI agents, couldn't purchase additional life insurance through the US Government itself.

This is additional to the life insurance that was included in their basic employment benefits package.

Robert99



A news FLASH for U. The additional insurance was underwritten by such companies as the one I have noted.
The premium was high, but they were NOT declined.



Jo, A news FLASH for U! The US Government self-insures. Its employee life insurance policies are not underwritten by commercial companies.

Robert99

Note so I screwed up the whatever for Air Traffic control ... you knew what I meant & so did others.

The government provides insurance, but if the person want supplemental insurance they have to purchase it on their own.

I explained that the Air Traffic Controller had insurance based on their income, but when their hours were cut so was their income and the insurance is often based based on income. When they went to regular companies they were denied supplemental insurance based on their employment.

If they wanted more coverage to cover the gaps they had to purchase it from companies that took HIGH RISK occupations, but at an extremely high rate depending on their occupation and recreational risk.

The company I mentioned provided the supplemental policies...but these policies were supplements for what they qualified with the government.

Yes, these companies were misleading making it appear the were sanctioned by the Government - but what it was - was a HIGH RISK supplemental policy.

YOU seemingly ignore that the insurance the goverment provided was based on income. NOT sufficient insurance to cover their needs. Most high risk came back with moderate increases over the normal - but not so with Air Traffic Controllers.

Air traffic controllers are HIGH risk or they were in 1971....the government did not offer enough in most cases to pay off the mortages on their homes in the event of death. These guys did not qualify for additional LIFE insurance outside of what the goverment provide - other than high risk policies...

WHAT do you not GET about that?So I screwed up the initials - but most of the time I type with a tremendous amount of pain...due to an incident with my hand.

Evidently you have never been married and did not have a wife & children who you wanted to protect with enough money to provide their continued life style...if you were no longer in the picture & your income was no longer there.

Jo,

You have still got it wrong. But I am not going to waste any more time on your insurance nonsense.

Robert99

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matthewcline

***Hey guys... I dropped onto this zone as I was researching for Dan Cooper for making a comic strip.
Thanks for all inputs, I greatly enjoyed reading it and will keep dropping in every once in a while.

Here's a summarized version of the comic strip if you wanna have a look:


https://thousandthingsinmyhead.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/d-b-cooper-part-2/



Thousandthings,

Those cartoons are nice. And your statement about Jeppesen is correct as those charts were preferred by airline and professional pilots over the standard government charts.

However, the aircraft you show in the cartoon is a McDonald-Douglas DC-10 (or maybe a DC-11) which came along about a decade after the Boeing 727.

And despite all the horror stories you have heard, there is nothing in the weather records to indicate that such a storm actually happened. In fact, there is nothing in the records to indicate any clouds above the 5000 foot ASL overcast and the airliner was flying at 10,000 feet ASL.

If my memory is correct, it was an FAA (not FBI) man who wanted to meet Cooper face-to-face to tell him that he was getting into trouble by hijacking that airplane. I suspect that Cooper was already aware of that.

Robert99

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Robert99

******Hey guys... I dropped onto this zone as I was researching for Dan Cooper for making a comic strip.
Thanks for all inputs, I greatly enjoyed reading it and will keep dropping in every once in a while.

Here's a summarized version of the comic strip if you wanna have a look:


https://thousandthingsinmyhead.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/d-b-cooper-part-2/



Thousandthings,

Those cartoons are nice. And your statement about Jeppesen is correct as those charts were preferred by airline and professional pilots over the standard government charts.

However, the aircraft you show in the cartoon is a McDonald-Douglas DC-10 (or maybe a DC-11) which came along about a decade after the Boeing 727.

And despite all the horror stories you have heard, there is nothing in the weather records to indicate that such a storm actually happened. In fact, there is nothing in the records to indicate any clouds above the 5000 foot ASL overcast and the airliner was flying at 10,000 feet ASL.

If my memory is correct, it was an FAA (not FBI) man who wanted to meet Cooper face-to-face to tell him that he was getting into trouble by hijacking that airplane. I suspect that Cooper was already aware of that.

Robert99




Robert, you are right about the weather. I read about it only recently in one of Blevins posts, unfortunately by then the comic was already finished.

I am making a longer and detailed version as well which goes all the way till say here (hoping to include some of the rants at DZ as well, if permitted), will do the correction there. That'll take anywhere between a few weeks to months depending upon how much I get.

About face to face meeting, I am not sure either but if you get confident info somewhere, do let me know. I'll correct it.

Thanks for reading it!

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matthewcline

***Hey guys... I dropped onto this zone as I was researching for Dan Cooper for making a comic strip.
Thanks for all inputs, I greatly enjoyed reading it and will keep dropping in every once in a while.

Here's a summarized version of the comic strip if you wanna have a look:


https://thousandthingsinmyhead.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/d-b-cooper-part-2/





Thanks Matt ...I am not a complete dud..but clearly am half way there :P

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` 727 not a DC-10
` Second panel "Mucklow"
` delivery of the money/chutes through the air stairs.
` passengers let off through the air stairs.
` he wants to go to Mexico City.
` Cooper says "under 10,000 ft"
` Altimiter? WTF?
` why is there a giant porthole in the cockpit?
` no storm
` aircraft in storm needs gear down.
` fbi tried to buy time repeated.
` last panel "no one"
` last panel gear down.

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Reichenbach

` 727 not a DC-10
` Second panel "Mucklow"
` delivery of the money/chutes through the air stairs.
` passengers let off through the air stairs.
` he wants to go to Mexico City.
` Cooper says "under 10,000 ft"
` Altimiter? WTF?
` why is there a giant porthole in the cockpit?
` no storm
` aircraft in storm needs gear down.
` fbi tried to buy time repeated.
` last panel "no one"
` last panel gear down.




And NO SEX!

When do we get to the sex stuff????

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RobertMBlevins

No...I was considering calling him up. I got his phone and address to do this. Later, I decided not to because I figured out I just didn't have any questions for him.

Quote

Blevins,

You are totally unaware of what has been going on in the DB Cooper matter for about the last two years. But it has nothing to do with KC or Duane Weber.

And we are headed towards the "real source" as you call it.

Robert99



Really? Nothing like being condescending there. It's not 'as I call it'. It's REALITY. You want to know where the flight was at a given time...you go to either the pilot or the co-pilot. Unfortunately, Captain Scott has passed away. You've been pushing this '305 overflew Tina Bar and That's How The Money Got There and That's How Cooper Died' theory for more than a year.

And it only occurred to you now to approach co-pilot Bill Rataczak about it? A guy whose recent talk to Northwest History Museum patrons on his Cooper experiences is available on DVD at their website?

When you refer to 'we' you include some folks who not only are outright hate-mongers, but have been banned from Dropzone for their actions and/or posts.

So save your condescending stuff for someone else. When people engage in trashing others or hateful posts...that's the point where I no longer take them seriously. Or the people who support them.

It goes to CREDIBILITY, Robert. My advice is you stop listening to...and cease supporting anyone investigating the case who engages in hate-mongering or personal attacks. No one will take you seriously because they will realize you have a slanted agenda. The truth, when people do that, is secondary to other things. And people see through that stuff easier than you might believe.



Blevins & Jo Weber,

While going through Richard Tosaw's book this evening looking for something else, I came across some information on pages 107 and 108 that I am sure you will find interesting. I had actually read this several years ago but had forgotten about it.

During the flight of the hijacked airliner from Seattle to Reno, NWA's Paul Soderlind, who according to Blevins is enshrined in something somewhere, came to the conclusion that Cooper jumped at 8:13 PST and he then immediately drew up the map that became known as the first landing zone even while the airliner was still airborne.

Tosaw talked to Soderlind extensively about the events surrounding the hijacking. Soderlind reviewed the original data and drew up a second map for the landing zone. Tosaw took a look at the map and was surprised to see that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

In fact Tosaw was so surprised that he asked Soderlind to review his data once again. Soderlind did and came to the same results that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

And Soderlind told Tosaw that he had come to the same conclusion the night of the hijacking. That is, from the very night of the hijacking and even before the airliner had landed in Reno, Soderlind believed that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

Blevins and Jo will deny everything, but that 8:13 PM jump time would put the airliner almost directly over Tina Bar if the airliner took a shortcut from the area of the Mayfield Intersection to the Canby Intersection south of Portland.

There is NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River if the flight path on the so-called "FBI Map" is correct (and it is NOT).

Further, there is no reason to believe that Soderlind had anything to do with that map based on his statements about landing in the Columbia River.

No doubt Blevins and Jo will continue to wish for a flight path that passed east of Portland in order to keep their Cooper candidates viable. But based on Tosaw's reporting of Soderlind's actions, no such flight path is possible.

Robert99

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thousandthings

***

If my memory is correct, it was an FAA (not FBI) man who wanted to meet Cooper face-to-face to tell him that he was getting into trouble by hijacking that airplane. I suspect that Cooper was already aware of that.

Robert99




About face to face meeting, I am not sure either but if you get confident info somewhere, do let me know. I'll correct it.



I have gone through the printed radio transcripts of the whole hijacking up to the point of departure from Seattle to Reno, the ARNIC radio transcripts, Himmelsbach's book, and Tosaw's book without finding a mention of that face-to-face meeting.

Nevertheless, I do remember seeing it somewhere in printed form. If I ever find the source, I'll let you know.

Robert99

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Reichenbach

` 727 not a DC-10
` Second panel "Mucklow"
` delivery of the money/chutes through the air stairs.
` passengers let off through the air stairs.
` he wants to go to Mexico City.
` Cooper says "under 10,000 ft"
` Altimiter? WTF?
` why is there a giant porthole in the cockpit?
` no storm
` aircraft in storm needs gear down.
` fbi tried to buy time repeated.
` last panel "no one"
` last panel gear down.





Thanks Reichenbach, noted...will correct these :$.
Besides, I remember having read somewhere that Cooper mentioned that he had an altimeter...isn't that correct?

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Robert99

******

If my memory is correct, it was an FAA (not FBI) man who wanted to meet Cooper face-to-face to tell him that he was getting into trouble by hijacking that airplane. I suspect that Cooper was already aware of that.

Robert99




About face to face meeting, I am not sure either but if you get confident info somewhere, do let me know. I'll correct it.



I have gone through the printed radio transcripts of the whole hijacking up to the point of departure from Seattle to Reno, the ARNIC radio transcripts, Himmelsbach's book, and Tosaw's book without finding a mention of that face-to-face meeting.

Nevertheless, I do remember seeing it somewhere in printed form. If I ever find the source, I'll let you know.

Robert99


Iam embarrassed to admit however this info seems to be from Wikipedia...so basically baseless. And you are right about FAA and not FBI

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"...There is NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River if the flight path on the so-called "FBI Map" is correct (and it is NOT).

Further, there is no reason to believe that Soderlind had anything to do with that map based on his statements about landing in the Columbia River.
...But based on Tosaw's reporting of Soderlind's actions, no such flight path is possible.

Robert99"



Yikes! Robert Nine-Nine, you got me reading Tosaw, too!!!

Yup, your synopsis of Soderlind is what I understand as well. I had forgotten all that stuff. Whew...

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Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'During the flight of the hijacked airliner from Seattle to Reno, NWA's Paul Soderlind, who according to Blevins is enshrined in something somewhere, came to the conclusion that Cooper jumped at 8:13 PST and he then immediately drew up the map that became known as the first landing zone even while the airliner was still airborne.

Tosaw talked to Soderlind extensively about the events surrounding the hijacking. Soderlind reviewed the original data and drew up a second map for the landing zone. Tosaw took a look at the map and was surprised to see that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

In fact Tosaw was so surprised that he asked Soderlind to review his data once again. Soderlind did and came to the same results that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

And Soderlind told Tosaw that he had come to the same conclusion the night of the hijacking. That is, from the very night of the hijacking and even before the airliner had landed in Reno, Soderlind believed that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

Blevins and Jo will deny everything, but that 8:13 PM jump time would put the airliner almost directly over Tina Bar if the airliner took a shortcut...'

'IF the airliner took a shortcut...' you say. Any proof that they did? The map says they didn't. You spent much time before...and NOW...making fun of my comments regarding how Soderlind and his NWA team had a hand in making the map, and then you admit he did. I don't know where you get this 'claims' stuff, either. I simply agree with the current flight path map as presented by the Seattle FBI on their website today. (See attached picture for the critical portion) And by the way...these things have NOTHING to do with the identity of the hijacker as you claim. Where Cooper jumped and where the plane was at that time have ZIP to do with whether Christiansen, Weber, or someone else was the hijacker. ZIP.

Your comments about 'Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River' are pointless, Robert. This is because at some point during the flight, it would have crossed the Columbia anyway. Well...unless you divert east over to Idaho or out over the Pacific Ocean. :S

The problem is...map shows the flight overflew the Columbia in the Portland area, not over Tina Bar, not miles within Tina Bar, not even within any kind of parachute drifting distance from Tina Bar. Only YOU say that. Map doesn't. The search for Cooper didn't. Just YOU. And you still have offered no proof that it did. You agree Soderlind probably had a hand in the map, which makes sense because he was NWA's go-to guy in these things.

'...if the flight diverted.' Big if. Unproven. No use trying to twist around Soderlind's work to fit your theory. If Soderlind, the FBI, etc. actually thought Cooper jumped anywhere NEAR Tina Bar...they would have sent the Army THERE. Instead of miles NE of that spot. And the map created with the help of Paul Soderlind and his team would read differently.

And you can stop associating my name with Jo Weber. She lives in Florida. I live in the Seattle area. We've never met. I've never even spoken to her on the phone and I don't have the slightest idea whether Duane Weber was the hijacker. All I know is you like to come after people for no good reason. I think you're pissed off (again) when you found out I was right about Soderlind's participation in the creation of the flight map.

You know, Robert...if the types of radar that were used to track Flight 305 were so far off...so WRONG...airliners would have been crashing in mid-air all over the place for years before Cooper pulled his little stunt.

I've already suggested the most obvious solution for you. Call up Bill Rataczak. I don't care whether you do or not, but to forward such a radical theory (flight diverted purposely, Cooper jumped at that point, this is reason why money was found at Tina Bar later) you need to go to the source. I think Rataczak could tell you easily enough if 305 was ever west of the Interstate 5 freeway at any point previous to reaching Vancouver. You should have asked him long ago.

Soderlind was one of the smartest guys to ever work for NWA. Some of his work is still used, and referred to, in commercial aviation today. That's why he's in the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. If he had a hand in the creation of the map, and I truly believe he did...I trust the map.

Again. Rataczak. Phone call or letter. Your answers will be forthcoming. I notice you talk about a 'second map'. Where is this map? Also...you are quoting both Soderlind and Tosaw in your original post on this subject. Source, please?


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From the Citizen Sleuths, who were the only civilian team ever allowed to examine and study the Cooper evidence: (Important portions underlined)

Quote

'The FBI transcripts identify the towns of Toledo, Pigeon Springs, Ariel, Highland, Battle Ground and Vancouver as being either on or near the radar recorded flight path. This information coincides with the FBI map and does not support an overflight of Tena Bar or the Washougal River.

The placard was recovered at the location shown in Figure 2 which is near Toutle, and 20 miles north of the Ariel Washington jump zone. This location is almost directly under the FBI flight path. Giving the placard a free fall time of nine minutes and a south west cross wind of 18 knots, then the plane would have to been 2.68 miles from where the placard was recovered and 2.6 miles west of V23. This distance is well within the official 8 mile width for the Victor airway and is 4 miles east of the theoretical Tena Bar flight path. This data places a constraint on the planes position approximately six minutes before the jump and suggests flight #305 was on the original FBI flight path.

Anecdotally, the original air traffic controller that handled the Northwest Airlines flight north of Portland was interviewed directly over the phone. He volunteered that he was sure that Flight #305 never left the V23 airway the entire time he had them on radar...'



Note to folks interested in the DB Cooper case: Suspect anyone who disregards the truth in favor of personalities, or who goes after anyone on a personal level who is also investigating the case. This indicates they have a personal agenda which supersedes and taints any real truth they may be trying to present.


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RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'During the flight of the hijacked airliner from Seattle to Reno, NWA's Paul Soderlind, who according to Blevins is enshrined in something somewhere, came to the conclusion that Cooper jumped at 8:13 PST and he then immediately drew up the map that became known as the first landing zone even while the airliner was still airborne.

Tosaw talked to Soderlind extensively about the events surrounding the hijacking. Soderlind reviewed the original data and drew up a second map for the landing zone. Tosaw took a look at the map and was surprised to see that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

In fact Tosaw was so surprised that he asked Soderlind to review his data once again. Soderlind did and came to the same results that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

And Soderlind told Tosaw that he had come to the same conclusion the night of the hijacking. That is, from the very night of the hijacking and even before the airliner had landed in Reno, Soderlind believed that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River.

Blevins and Jo will deny everything, but that 8:13 PM jump time would put the airliner almost directly over Tina Bar if the airliner took a shortcut...'

'IF the airliner took a shortcut...' you say. Any proof that they did? The map says they didn't. You spent much time before...and NOW...making fun of my comments regarding how Soderlind and his NWA team had a hand in making the map, and then you admit he did. I don't know where you get this 'claims' stuff, either. I simply agree with the current flight path map as presented by the Seattle FBI on their website today. (See attached picture for the critical portion) And by the way...these things have NOTHING to do with the identity of the hijacker as you claim. Where Cooper jumped and where the plane was at that time have ZIP to do with whether Christiansen, Weber, or someone else was the hijacker. ZIP.

Your comments about 'Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River' are pointless, Robert. This is because at some point during the flight, it would have crossed the Columbia anyway. Well...unless you divert east over to Idaho or out over the Pacific Ocean. :S

The problem is...map shows the flight overflew the Columbia in the Portland area, not over Tina Bar, not miles within Tina Bar, not even within any kind of parachute drifting distance from Tina Bar. Only YOU say that. Map doesn't. The search for Cooper didn't. Just YOU. And you still have offered no proof that it did. You agree Soderlind probably had a hand in the map, which makes sense because he was NWA's go-to guy in these things.

'...if the flight diverted.' Big if. Unproven. No use trying to twist around Soderlind's work to fit your theory. If Soderlind, the FBI, etc. actually thought Cooper jumped anywhere NEAR Tina Bar...they would have sent the Army THERE. Instead of miles NE of that spot. And the map created with the help of Paul Soderlind and his team would read differently.

And you can stop associating my name with Jo Weber. She lives in Florida. I live in the Seattle area. We've never met. I've never even spoken to her on the phone and I don't have the slightest idea whether Duane Weber was the hijacker. All I know is you like to come after people for no good reason. I think you're pissed off (again) when you found out I was right about Soderlind's participation in the creation of the flight map.

You know, Robert...if the types of radar that were used to track Flight 305 were so far off...so WRONG...airliners would have been crashing in mid-air all over the place for years before Cooper pulled his little stunt.

I've already suggested the most obvious solution for you. Call up Bill Rataczak. I don't care whether you do or not, but to forward such a radical theory (flight diverted purposely, Cooper jumped at that point, this is reason why money was found at Tina Bar later) you need to go to the source. I think Rataczak could tell you easily enough if 305 was ever west of the Interstate 5 freeway at any point previous to reaching Vancouver. You should have asked him long ago.

Soderlind was one of the smartest guys to ever work for NWA. Some of his work is still used, and referred to, in commercial aviation today. That's why he's in the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. If he had a hand in the creation of the map, and I truly believe he did...I trust the map.

Again. Rataczak. Phone call or letter. Your answers will be forthcoming. I notice you talk about a 'second map'. Where is this map? Also...you are quoting both Soderlind and Tosaw in your original post on this subject. Source, please?



Blevins,

Your post quoted above is just more of your nonsense and ducking and weaving.

So you want a source? The source is given in the VERY FIRST SENTENCE OF MY POST #57367 which you deleted while quoting selective parts of that post. How did you manage to miss the source?

Bruce Smith, who has professional journalistic experience and qualifications, saw that source and verified that it was a true representation of what appears on pages 107 and 108 of Tosaw's book. Perhaps Bruce will agree to give you some instructions on how to do research if you ask him politely.

The flight path on the so-called "FBI Map" (even the FBI apparently doesn't know where it came from) has been so thoroughly discredited on this thread that there is no point in discussing it further.

Blevins, for your information, here are some comments from Tosaw's book, page vii:

"PAUL SODERLIND, Former Director, Flight Operations-Technical, Northwest Airlines, says: 'Richard, you have handled the story very well, and I am glad I was able to contribute.' "

"TOM MANNING, Former FBI Agent who led the search for Cooper, says: 'Compliments to my friend, Richard Tosaw, for his painstaking research and interesting analysis of this fascinating case.' "

"WILLIAM RATACZAK, Copilot, Flight 305, says: 'Mr. Tosaw has cut through the very technical details of a complex nightmare to successfully capture the very real-life drama of one of the 20th century's most bizarre, and yet unsolved, crimes.' "

There are other such comments on that page.

Blevins, if the airliner had crossed the Columbia River on V-23 near the Portland International Airport, it would have been over the Columbia River less that 4 SECONDS.

If the airliner bypassed Portland on the west side as I have described previously, it would have been over the Columbia River for several MINUTES.

And what is the source of your claim that the airliner was SEVERAL MILES WEST OF THE COLUMBIA RIVER (which runs north and south at Tina Bar)?

Robert99

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'And what is the source of your claim that the airliner was SEVERAL MILES WEST OF THE COLUMBIA RIVER (which runs north and south at Tina Bar)?'



It is not MY claim. It is the flight path shown on the map held by the FBI. The one that just about everyone agrees is reasonably correct. I know which way the river runs in that area, yes. I also know every flight I've taken to Portland when you get south of the Chehalis area...you can see the Interstate 5 freeway out the right window until you get close to Vancouver. And it's miles away, and even further west to the Columbia at that point.

What you are saying is that the flight took a sudden diversion to the west instead of continuing south from the point where the placard was found, and there is absolutely NO proof this actually happened. You want to ignore the Sleuths' evaluation? Fine. The guy handling the radar who the Sleuths' interviewed? Okay. The search for the hijacker, which was nowhere even ClOSE to Tina Bar? Go for it.

Quote

'IF the flight diverted...'



Pretty big 'IF'. Unproven.

I have not personally seen the Tosaw book, but I will soon. I have a copy on the way via Powells Books in Portland. I also know that Tosaw developed a theory that Cooper may have pancaked into the Columbia because I know he did some searching in the river after the money was discovered. But he found nothing. And he also wrote his book a few years after the discovery of the money. However, when this book arrives I am going to search it thoroughly for any references where Soderlind tosses out the route and says no...the plane went over Tina Bar. I don't think I will find anything like that, but we will see.

Your quotes from the book are not proof of anything so far. They are mutual back-slapping statements by a couple of the principles and say nothing. I don't understand why you keep putting this 'claim' thing regarding the route the plane took to Portland on ME. It is not my idea, my invention, or my claim. It is what exists via the FBI, the Citizen Sleuths' research, the radar data, etc. It is pointless to argue with ME about it. It is THOSE entities you dispute to support your theory, not me.

You could ask the co-pilot, as I suggested. In fact, this should have been your first stop once you decided that Cooper must have jumped over Tina Bar. What you are proposing is pretty radical if you think about it. If the FBI or NWA knew that the flight could have overflown Tina Bar...and that's why the money ended up on the beach there...don't you think there would have been some mention of this after the money was discovered? This has never been mentioned by anyone at the time it was found. Why? Because everyone knew that spot was miles off the established flight path. Radar says so. Map says so. Sleuths say so. The friggin' ground search for the hijacker says so. Even 'Janet' disagrees with you...although I wouldn't take her word that day is light and night is dark. ;)

You say no. Okay.

Quote

'IF the flight diverted...'



But there is no proof of that so far, Robert99.


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