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RobertMBlevins

Asked and answered.

Quote

'This is how we correct all the convoluted crap, the knowns, the unknowns on Christiansen. It's real simple: We wrap the new report on him with the new interviews and additional info, run Lyle's DNA and get the profile, and then send this whole package to the Seattle FBI. Simple. If they believe the chain of evidence was broken on the Lyle DNA profile, they can actually visit Lyle this time and do their own swabs, which I'm sure they would do if they can't eliminate Christiansen like all the others who were compared to the tie profile. I will let them worry about it.

And this will be my final printed submission on the whole Kenny thing. I fully expect that Kenny will be proven NOT to be the hijacker. Does this surprise you? It would surprise me if they (FBI) came to a different result. Considering how many people have been investigated for Cooper, you have to be realistic about the whole thing...'



Not answered.

The story that we have been told about two FBI agents obtaining a DNA sample from Lyle is an outright lie. Plain and simple. It's been told over and over on this forum. It is not an error in research. The fact that it went uncorrected for so long may be an error in research. But, the story itself is a lie. Just like the house purchased with cash was a lie. As I said there is a liar somewhere in this Kenny Christiansen story and you don't seem to eager to reveal who that is. Someone started these lies...who?
"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

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Again, this Cooper thread should be shut down and locked in perpetuity.

Robert99



I disagree. Let it survive. It is pretty useless right now but it might get better someday. Meanwhile just ignore folks who annoy you. Its easy to do.

If Snow were allowed to return and we got Orange, Sluggo, Farflung and others like them back in the forum it could bloom again.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377

Quote

Again, this Cooper thread should be shut down and locked in perpetuity.

Robert99



I disagree. Let it survive. It is pretty useless right now but it might get better someday. Meanwhile just ignore folks who annoy you. Its easy to do.

If Snow were allowed to return and we got Orange, Sluggo, Farflung and others like them back in the forum it could bloom again.

377



Agreed. But the Cooper candidate pushers are using it currently just to spread dis-information. And that is a drag on the whole Cooper investigation.

Robert99

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Robert99

***

Quote

Again, this Cooper thread should be shut down and locked in perpetuity.

Robert99



I disagree. Let it survive. It is pretty useless right now but it might get better someday. Meanwhile just ignore folks who annoy you. Its easy to do.

If Snow were allowed to return and we got Orange, Sluggo, Farflung and others like them back in the forum it could bloom again.

377



Agreed. But the Cooper candidate pushers are using it currently just to spread dis-information. And that is a drag on the whole Cooper investigation.

Robert99

This thread might only be 4 or 5 pages long, when the lies, attacks, disinformation, off topic rants, mindless drivel, and general childishness posts, are deleted.

Sadly, that won't stop, as proven by the posts and PM's right after each call to lock this thread prove.

It would also be too time consuming to edit this thread of all the crap.

Experts in fields get attacked by "never beens" and "know nots" when their theory is scientifically and factually proven wrong.

History gets used and rewritten by those who desperately try to fit themselves into this crime. Why one would want to be a part of this crime is unfathomable to me, but I do not want to be a criminal, I guess I'm different that way.

This thread as it stands now, no longer serves a purpose. The original that Jo started and then this one, had a purpose, long ago left behind. Yet, even the original idea, was agenda driven, not to find the actual hijacker, but to make a suspect, how ever it need to be done.

Any actual evidence (what little real evidence there is) in this thread, wouldn't be lost by locking it.

Having worked along a few FBI Agents recently, if they have eliminated a suspect, and publicly said so, I would be hard pressed to see a reason to go against that. They do have more experience than any here, and far more means as well.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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matthewcline


This thread might only be 4 or 5 pages long, when the lies, attacks, disinformation, off topic rants, mindless drivel, and general childishness posts, are deleted.
Matt



Excellent, Matt, you summed up this nonsense in one sentence.

And... I am still not DB Cooper.
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'In my humble opinion, you and Blevins have successfully delayed any resolution of the Cooper hijacking matter by a number of years. In reality, Duane Weber and KC were not connected to or involved in any way with the Cooper hijacking.

You and Blevins need this thread to advance your own non-Cooper goals. You both know that any other web site would not permit either of you to do the things that you get away with here...'


Several things you say above are either untrue, or don't match the facts.

1) I am not Jo Weber and my goals in this case are both different than hers, and very well defined.

2) Your opinion on this matter is slanted, since you are currently one of the biggest posters and general contributors to another site on the Cooper case.

3) You cannot say for certain that either Duane Weber or Kenny Christiansen were not DB Cooper. That is a blanket statement that could apply to ANY current suspect, since certain key evidence is lacking on any and all current suspects. That statement is merely your opinion. Even the Seattle FBI has said that Christiansen has not been eliminated as a suspect, and in fact, Special Agent Fred Gutt in Seattle has said some agents believe he is a good suspect, while other agents believe there are better suspects. You are putting yourself up here as more informed than the entity responsible for the case.

4) Neither Jo Weber or myself have 'delayed' the solving of the Cooper case. If you had solved it yourself, or others had solved it, you could have posted your results anytime you wished.

5) When you speak of 'the things you get away with here,' i.e. improper postings or whatever, some of the people you interact with NOW at the alternate site (of which you are a heavy supporter) were previously BANNED by Dropzone for personal attacks. This is the pot calling the kettle black.

6) You refer to my having 'other agendas' here besides the discovery of the evidence regarding Kenny Christiansen. And although everyone goes off-topic here occasionally, the majority of my posts regard our work at Adventure Books trying to discover the truth on Christiansen. I have also posted extensively on subjects such as the Amboy Chute find, the Tina Bar money, actions by the hijacker on board the plane, and the murder of Earl Cossey, among others.

7) Point number six above is easily proven by the extensive amount of travel, interviews, (three of them very recent) articles I have posted to my Newsvine column, and the generally open presentation of what we are doing to accomplish a goal of determining whether Christiansen was the hijacker. The only thing I have held back is certain personal contact information on witnesses we are working with, and that is because some Cooper folk have demonstrated they cannot be trusted with such information. These people brought this on themselves by visiting other articles on Christiansen or the Cooper case and making the most filthy comments imaginable about Adventure Books, myself, even Gayla Prociv, the head of AB. In addition, since Shutter decided to make the flow of information non-private (disallowing private communications) and shut down all imput from AB to his site, we feel justified in taking precautions. This is Shutter's perfect right, but we have rights too.

8) You point to others as 'a problem,' and make many posts to the alternate site. But then most of your posts HERE for the last few months concern having the thread closed or responding to poor comments by Jo Weber. And not coincidentally, you have done this since you became one of the most active posters at the alternate site. But the fact remains you visit here a lot and then transfer your views here into posts at the alternate site. That includes comments on our current investigation into Christiansen. If you really believed what you say about Christiansen, (not a chance he was Cooper) you would not speak of him at the alternate site at all, or discuss our current investigation into him. Also, if you have a problem with Jo Weber, you should be going to the moderators about it.

9) You claim I have 'non-Cooper goals,' but don't specify what you believe those goals ARE. Making money? Selling books? A film offer? The evidence is clear on that. I have turned down money from two TV producers, and a modest five-figure offer for the film rights to Kenny's story. On that last one, the reason I did was because the interested production company wanted to be allowed to take extensive liberties with the truth on Kenny, and sort of 'mold' him into the hijacker. So we said no to that offer. These things demonstrate not a propensity to shove square pegs into round holes to make money - but to determine the truth. We even stopped work completely on our own screenplay on Christiansen's life because we can't write the ending, and if that ending was that Christiansen was NOT the hijacker, then there is no sense in completing it at all. In addition, I have a standing offer to anyone who wants to see the book but doesn't want to pay. I have said many times here that all they have to do is contact me via email and I will gladly send them the PDF of the book for nothing. In fact, I offer it up for free (or close to it) at Amazon four times a year under the KOLL program there.

10) Out of ALL the people currently involved in trying to solve the case, I alone am the only person still investing extensive time, travel, and money, out in the real world trying to prove my case. Most, (but not all) of the other work being done these days is being done solely by computer and internet forums.

11) You have also demonstrated a propensity, as have some others you interact with at the other site, to dismiss evidence not based on its merits, but how you personally feel about the person delivering the evidence. Alternate site user Georger was famous for that, and you engage in the same thing to a lesser degree.

12) I have seen a great many negative posts both here, but mainly at the alternate site, about the current evidence package on Christiansen that we are preparing for a January release to the Seattle FBI. This is a complete mystery to me, i.e. I can't figure out why some of you seem so against this whole idea. It's almost as if you believe we can magically convince the FBI that Christiansen was the hijacker. In reality, the exact opposite is true because the chances are far greater that they will determine the DNA eliminates Christiansen and the other evidence presented will turn out to be a string of coincidences. So, in my mind you should be GLAD we are doing this. Your attitude is almost as if you and some of your friends at the alternate site are afraid we could be right and all the work you and others did was for nothing. This is real mystery to the staff and myself at Adventure Books since we believe the chances are extremely high that by presenting everything we have to the FBI that Christiansen will be eliminated. So you should WANT us to do that.

Parrothead Vol says in part:

Quote

'Just like the house purchased with cash was a lie. As I said there is a liar somewhere in this Kenny Christiansen story and you don't seem to eager to reveal who that is. Someone started these lies...who?'



First time I saw that reference was from the 2007 Geoff Gray article, which had been out for nearly a year before I was ever contacted by Skipp Porteous:

Quote

'According to property records, Kenny was able to purchase a house and some land. In October 1972, about a year after Cooper’s jump, Kenny paid $14,000 for a modest ranch in Bonney Lake, a small mountain town, in the Cascades. A year later, a deed shows he paid $1,500 for a parcel of land...'



Gray mentions nothing about the mortgage and promissory note with the Grimes couple that was discovered later, but he hints strongly that KC couldn't afford to purchase a house due to his income. In fact, I think most reasonable people would assume that if Gray says 'he PAID for' it means exactly that. That the property was PAID FOR. I think Porteous and others (at first) assumed the house was bought for cash. I'm not sure where I first heard the story of the FBI visiting Lyle and taking swabs, but early on in the KC investigation I sometimes went with certain items that turned out to be just another Cooper urban legend. However...when this happens I have usually made good faith efforts to find out the truth. This is why I finally called Lyle on the phone about this and announced the results publicly. (FBI did NOT come to his house) We now have Lyle's DNA samples today, though.

On a side note, although I like Skipp Porteous, he made some mistakes along the way, and since he was the main investigator here until much later (when I took over for good) he has made mistakes. One of them was cutting Geoff Gray from the loop on anything I was discovering on Christiansen. It would have been better had they been exchanging information. For example, my interviews with the witnesses (none of them discovered by Gray for his article or his book, or even mentioned in either) would have been better with Gray doing the interviews. I have chided Porteous' actions occasionally on these things, and although he got the ball rolling a bit on KC, I have taken it much further since that time. But I do remember when Gray's book was released. I got my copy on the first day of release and read it immediately from cover to cover. It didn't take me long to realize that Porteous hadn't kept Geoff Gray informed on a single damn thing...and that was a big mistake, in my opinion. I have wondered many times how those interviews would have gone if Gray and I had done them together with Gray asking the majority of the questions. He is a pro reporter. I am not. If Porteous has made bad decisions during the investigation into KC, his keeping Gray out of the loop while Gray was researching his book was the biggest one of all.


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Robert99



Jo, In the last day or two, you have made remarks threatening Georger and myself as well as running down a number of other people who don't buy whatever product you are trying to sell.

In my humble opinion, you and Blevins have successfully delayed any resolution of the Cooper hijacking matter by a number of years. In reality, Duane Weber and KC were not connected to or involved in any way with the Cooper hijacking.

You and Blevins need this thread to advance your own non-Cooper goals. You both know that any other web site would not permit either of you to do the things that you get away with here.

Robert99



[:/]This is the kind of postings by you Robt that are uncalled for.

[:/]I have not threatened anyone and you guys are the ones who make inflammatory remarks and all I have done is defend myself.

Jo Weber has done NOTHING to delay any resolutions of the Cooper case. You are very aware of that & that I am responsible for this site being made available for guys like you.

:oThings I have introduce have been used to further the case and not hinder it. You ARE totally unware of these things - because they are never put in the thread.

:|I have not been permitted to GET AWAY with things - you & other have made some outrageous & inflammatory remarks that would have gotten JO put on vacation. I stay out of the general arguments and the technical aspects.

NO other WEB site would have allowed others in this thread to get away with was some what is claimed.

[:/]The other site was developed for you guys - to discuss things you claimed you could not discuss on this thread - and may I suggest you take your inflamatory remarks there & avoid making them here.

Since you have the capabilities to research information I provide to you...then maybe you are not a true investigator of facts. I believe you are here to create havoc & make statements that demean those who might know a little more about somethings than you are aware of.

IT is time for the PERSONAL attack to STOP & I am making a proposal that - we dicuss the case. NO ONE promotes a subject & you geniuses make postings a normal person can understand - not some one who needs 2 degrees to digest.

As I have said I have something I am working on &right now I have 2 months or pain, surgery and rehab ahead of me....so I won't be around.

I might manage with my left hand to read - but, will not be posting other than a line or two with one finger if I can even do that.

If you have a wife - do you talk to her the way you do me? If so I really feel so very sorry for her. If you have never married - then I thoroihly understand WHY!

You must be a VERY lonely person.
Please Gus don't miss the Bus!
You know what that means, but NO one else in this thread as a clue.

Enjoyed the FAST trip to the airport.
Last location you were covered in books. Do you hide you problems behind those books?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert, paid doesn't always mean cash. If Gray knew this was a cash deal he would of said CASH. (paid in full) (paid cash)

You quote him at $14,000, but you claim $16,500, and $14,500.

what about the two FBI agents. you have several different versions of events of on this thread. sadly it's starting to flip flop like Bob Knoss comments.

You can't have a story surrounding an error Robert!

"Two weeks ago, Porteous sent one of these same agents two copies of the book, and then urged her along on checking KC as a possible suspect in an added letter. (She is a senior investigator now, and Porteous has worked with both she and the other agent several times over the years) "

Did this occur? or is it a lie. it can't be a mistake. this post is from a recent "email" from Skipp. either you are putting words into Skipps mouth, or Skipp is lying. which is it?

Nobody seems to be involved in this but you. you speak for everyone. why is that?

The first PDF was full of mistakes and misleading events. you either added your own versions, or you don't fully understand what others say. if you look on the property records for Dan Marino, you will find a document stating $1. the very same document you have claiming Kenny paid $10 for the lot next to the house. which was incorrect about the amount, and it wasn't the lot in question. Dan Marino's house sold for 7 million dollars not $1. his friend bought the house, or paid for the house, but has a mortgage attached with it!

The FBI already has the first version, and I'm sure if they read it and followed up they found all the problems. it's pointless from this point on. you blew it the first time. you can't keep editing things to the FBI. they don't have time for it.

The FBI has stated several times, including my signature at the bottom. he doesn't fit the description, and is not a viable suspect. nobody has any clue if you have taken things out of context about what has been said about the witnesses. some are already extremely questionable. some have been proven to have false statements, or did Carolyn Powell really say Kenny paid cash for the house? I have a feeling if the FBI did speak with these people we would hear a lot of "I never said that, where did that come from"

Nobody can take anything you say as fact from this point forward Robert. you have way to many problems with this story. this all started when Lyle wanted to make a movie.

You do understand this, right?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Nobody said investigating either the Cooper case or Kenny C was easy. And some of the things you quoted are from a time even BEFORE History Channel became involved. Back then I was still wading through all the KC stuff and knew very little. Much came to me from Skipp Porteous.

The FBI agents you reference were from Boston. Porteous knew one of them personally and sent them a copy of the book. Or...he had ME send it out. I'm not sure which. At that time (four years ago) I was sending out copies to quite a few people.

There is a bottom line here. I'm not asking the public to believe anything at all regarding Kenny Christiansen, because this is how we will answer all those questions:

Quote

'This is how we correct all the convoluted crap, the knowns, the unknowns on Christiansen. It's real simple: We wrap the new report on him with the new interviews and additional info, run Lyle's DNA and get the profile, and then send this whole package to the Seattle FBI. Simple. If they believe the chain of evidence was broken on the Lyle DNA profile, they can actually visit Lyle this time and do their own swabs, which I'm sure they would do if they can't eliminate Christiansen like all the others who were compared to the tie profile. I will let them worry about it...'



This document is well laid out and contains every bit of information we have on Christiansen at the current time. It can be CHECKED, and all contact information on the witnesses is included. So...if it is false it won't take the FBI long to figure that out, correct?

So why worry? If everything you say is true that would become obvious in a very short time. If you believe all the evidence is wrong and Kenny isn't the guy you should be hoping we send out our information to them as soon as possible.

And we will. In January. :)


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RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'In my humble opinion, you and Blevins have successfully delayed any resolution of the Cooper hijacking matter by a number of years. In reality, Duane Weber and KC were not connected to or involved in any way with the Cooper hijacking.

You and Blevins need this thread to advance your own non-Cooper goals. You both know that any other web site would not permit either of you to do the things that you get away with here...'



BLEVINS WRITES:

Several things you say above are either untrue, or don't match the facts.

R99 REPLIES:

Where is your evidence?

BLEVINS WRITES:

1) I am not Jo Weber and my goals in this case are both different than hers, and very well defined.

R99 REPLIES:

Despite your claims elsewhere that you have turned down tons of money, you are here to peddle books, screen plays, and anything else that will generate a buck.

BLEVINS WRITES:

2) Your opinion on this matter is slanted, since you are currently one of the biggest posters and general contributors to another site on the Cooper case.

R99 REPLIES:

You are using faulty logic again. But to apply your logic to your own case, as a "leading Cooper researcher" (your description of yourself) you probably have made more posts on Cooper and KC, both on this thread and elsewhere, than anyone else on the Internet. Using your logic, that means you are slanted in your opinions.

BLEVINS WRITES:

3) You cannot say for certain that either Duane Weber or Kenny Christiansen were not DB Cooper. That is a blanket statement that could apply to ANY current suspect, since certain key evidence is lacking on any and all current suspects. That statement is merely your opinion. Even the Seattle FBI has said that Christiansen has not been eliminated as a suspect, and in fact, Special Agent Fred Gutt in Seattle has said some agents believe he is a good suspect, while other agents believe there are better suspects. You are putting yourself up here as more informed than the entity responsible for the case.

R99 REPLIES:

Where is your proof that KC and Duane Weber were ever "suspects" in the first place? For reasons that you are not aware of and that won't be explained further here, the simple fact that KC and Duane Weber were still breathing at 8:30PM PST on November 24, 1971, effectively eliminates them from being possible Cooper candidates.

It is unlikely that the FBI will formally eliminate any possible Cooper "suspects" until the final Cooper shoe hits the floor.

BLEVINS WRITES:

4) Neither Jo Weber or myself have 'delayed' the solving of the Cooper case. If you had solved it yourself, or others had solved it, you could have posted your results anytime you wished.

R99 REPLIES:

More faulty logic. You start with a denial and then seem to indirectly imply that you and/or Jo have solved the Cooper case. You haven't.

BLEVINS WRITES:

5) When you speak of 'the things you get away with here,' i.e. improper postings or whatever, some of the people you interact with NOW at the alternate site (of which you are a heavy supporter) were previously BANNED by Dropzone for personal attacks. This is the pot calling the kettle black.

R99 REPLIES:

Blevins, your have probably been banned from this DZ thread more times, and for longer periods of time, than anyone on the "alternate site". And some of your attacks here were beyond inappropriate.

BLEVINS WRITES:

6) You refer to my having 'other agendas' here besides the discovery of the evidence regarding Kenny Christiansen. And although everyone goes off-topic here occasionally, the majority of my posts regard our work at Adventure Books trying to discover the truth on Christiansen. I have also posted extensively on subjects such as the Amboy Chute find, the Tina Bar money, actions by the hijacker on board the plane, and the murder of Earl Cossey, among others.

R99 REPLIES:

This has already been discussed above and elsewhere.

BLEVINS WRITES:

7) Point number six above is easily proven by the extensive amount of travel, interviews, (three of them very recent) articles I have posted to my Newsvine column, and the generally open presentation of what we are doing to accomplish a goal of determining whether Christiansen was the hijacker. The only thing I have held back is certain personal contact information on witnesses we are working with, and that is because some Cooper folk have demonstrated they cannot be trusted with such information. These people brought this on themselves by visiting other articles on Christiansen or the Cooper case and making the most filthy comments imaginable about Adventure Books, myself, even Gayla Prociv, the head of AB. In addition, since Shutter decided to make the flow of information non-private (disallowing private communications) and shut down all imput from AB to his site, we feel justified in taking precautions. This is Shutter's perfect right, but we have rights too.

R99 REPLIES:

You have posted personal information of several people on this thread and have been called out for it by the Moderators. Your treatment of Margie is just plain stalking according to the Washington State laws that others posted here for your benefit. The rest of your comments have been discussed at length elsewhere on this thread.

BLEVINS WRITES:

8) You point to others as 'a problem,' and make many posts to the alternate site. But then most of your posts HERE for the last few months concern having the thread closed or responding to poor comments by Jo Weber. And not coincidentally, you have done this since you became one of the most active posters at the alternate site. But the fact remains you visit here a lot and then transfer your views here into posts at the alternate site. That includes comments on our current investigation into Christiansen. If you really believed what you say about Christiansen, (not a chance he was Cooper) you would not speak of him at the alternate site at all, or discuss our current investigation into him. Also, if you have a problem with Jo Weber, you should be going to the moderators about it.

R99 REPLIES:

In all honesty, I doubt if you are doing any serious investigation of KC. You certainly haven't done so in the past. As for me posting at both sites, you have been attacking Shutter for months in an effort to be permitted to post on his site.

BLEVINS WRITES:

9) You claim I have 'non-Cooper goals,' but don't specify what you believe those goals ARE. Making money? Selling books? A film offer? The evidence is clear on that. I have turned down money from two TV producers, and a modest five-figure offer for the film rights to Kenny's story. On that last one, the reason I did was because the interested production company wanted to be allowed to take extensive liberties with the truth on Kenny, and sort of 'mold' him into the hijacker. So we said no to that offer. These things demonstrate not a propensity to shove square pegs into round holes to make money - but to determine the truth. We even stopped work completely on our own screenplay on Christiansen's life because we can't write the ending, and if that ending was that Christiansen was NOT the hijacker, then there is no sense in completing it at all. In addition, I have a standing offer to anyone who wants to see the book but doesn't want to pay. I have said many times here that all they have to do is contact me via email and I will gladly send them the PDF of the book for nothing. In fact, I offer it up for free (or close to it) at Amazon four times a year under the KOLL program there.

R99 REPLIES:

This has already been discussed here and elsewhere.

BLEVINS WRITES:

10) Out of ALL the people currently involved in trying to solve the case, I alone am the only person still investing extensive time, travel, and money, out in the real world trying to prove my case. Most, (but not all) of the other work being done these days is being done solely by computer and internet forums.

R99 REPLIES:

You don't have the slightest idea of what other people are doing in the Cooper matter.

BLEVINS WRITES:

11) You have also demonstrated a propensity, as have some others you interact with at the other site, to dismiss evidence not based on its merits, but how you personally feel about the person delivering the evidence. Alternate site user Georger was famous for that, and you engage in the same thing to a lesser degree.

R99 REPLIES:

We seem to have a different opinion of what constitutes "evidence". Hearsay is not evidence.

BLEVINS WRITES:

12) I have seen a great many negative posts both here, but mainly at the alternate site, about the current evidence package on Christiansen that we are preparing for a January release to the Seattle FBI. This is a complete mystery to me, i.e. I can't figure out why some of you seem so against this whole idea. It's almost as if you believe we can magically convince the FBI that Christiansen was the hijacker. In reality, the exact opposite is true because the chances are far greater that they will determine the DNA eliminates Christiansen and the other evidence presented will turn out to be a string of coincidences. So, in my mind you should be GLAD we are doing this. Your attitude is almost as if you and some of your friends at the alternate site are afraid we could be right and all the work you and others did was for nothing. This is real mystery to the staff and myself at Adventure Books since we believe the chances are extremely high that by presenting everything we have to the FBI that Christiansen will be eliminated. So you should WANT us to do that.

Parrothead Vol says in part:

***'Just like the house purchased with cash was a lie. As I said there is a liar somewhere in this Kenny Christiansen story and you don't seem to eager to reveal who that is. Someone started these lies...who?'



First time I saw that reference was from the 2007 Geoff Gray article, which had been out for nearly a year before I was ever contacted by Skipp Porteous:

Quote

'According to property records, Kenny was able to purchase a house and some land. In October 1972, about a year after Cooper’s jump, Kenny paid $14,000 for a modest ranch in Bonney Lake, a small mountain town, in the Cascades. A year later, a deed shows he paid $1,500 for a parcel of land...'



Gray mentions nothing about the mortgage and promissory note with the Grimes couple that was discovered later, but he hints strongly that KC couldn't afford to purchase a house due to his income. In fact, I think most reasonable people would assume that if Gray says 'he PAID for' it means exactly that. That the property was PAID FOR. I think Porteous and others (at first) assumed the house was bought for cash. I'm not sure where I first heard the story of the FBI visiting Lyle and taking swabs, but early on in the KC investigation I sometimes went with certain items that turned out to be just another Cooper urban legend. However...when this happens I have usually made good faith efforts to find out the truth. This is why I finally called Lyle on the phone about this and announced the results publicly. (FBI did NOT come to his house) We now have Lyle's DNA samples today, though.

On a side note, although I like Skipp Porteous, he made some mistakes along the way, and since he was the main investigator here until much later (when I took over for good) he has made mistakes. One of them was cutting Geoff Gray from the loop on anything I was discovering on Christiansen. It would have been better had they been exchanging information. For example, my interviews with the witnesses (none of them discovered by Gray for his article or his book, or even mentioned in either) would have been better with Gray doing the interviews. I have chided Porteous' actions occasionally on these things, and although he got the ball rolling a bit on KC, I have taken it much further since that time. But I do remember when Gray's book was released. I got my copy on the first day of release and read it immediately from cover to cover. It didn't take me long to realize that Porteous hadn't kept Geoff Gray informed on a single damn thing...and that was a big mistake, in my opinion. I have wondered many times how those interviews would have gone if Gray and I had done them together with Gray asking the majority of the questions. He is a pro reporter. I am not. If Porteous has made bad decisions during the investigation into KC, his keeping Gray out of the loop while Gray was researching his book was the biggest one of all.

R99 REPLIES:

Based on your own previous comments, you are not releasing any information about your present Cooper information package, so how would anyone here or at the other site know what was in it?

My replies to Blevins comments are included in the above.

Robert99

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skyjack71

[THESE REMARKS WERE ADDRESSED TO ROBERT99]

. . . . .

[:/]I have not threatened anyone and you guys are the ones who make inflammatory remarks and all I have done is defend myself.

. . . . .

[:/]The other site was developed for you guys - to discuss things you claimed you could not discuss on this thread - and may I suggest you take your inflamatory remarks there & avoid making them here.

. . . . .

I believe you are here to create havoc & make statements that demean those who might know a little more about somethings than you are aware of.

IT is time for the PERSONAL attack to STOP & I am making a proposal that - we dicuss the case. NO ONE promotes a subject & you geniuses make postings a normal person can understand - not some one who needs 2 degrees to digest.

. . . . .

If you have a wife - do you talk to her the way you do me? If so I really feel so very sorry for her. If you have never married - then I thoroihly understand WHY!

You must be a VERY lonely person.
Please Gus don't miss the Bus!
You know what that means, but NO one else in this thread as a clue.

Enjoyed the FAST trip to the airport.
Last location you were covered in books. Do you hide you problems behind those books?



Jo, did you say something somewhere in there about stopping personal attacks?

Also, you should read your posts nos. 55962, 55964, and 55965.

In any event, your last three paragraphs are undecipherable to me.:o

Robert99

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The discussion at the moment is not whether Kenny was Cooper, it whether you are adding to the story.

You are always the first to scream LIAR to a lot of people. how did it get to the point of two agents showing up at Lyle's house? so, do we have 4 agents involved in this? two from Boston, and two from Minnesota? several times you claim you spoke with the FBI only two times, but you have a trail of contacting them with a response a lot more that than that. two agents from Seattle, two agents from Minnesota, two agents from Boston. they travel in pairs I guess.

Nobody's worried about anything Robert. you should be worried about credibility though. I have absolutely nothing to get worried about, or upset with anything to do with this case. nothing about any of this is worth losing sleep over.

It seems at every turn with the Kenny saga something is either misquoted, or completely false. nothing adds up anymore. no cash deals, no agents snooping around, and no credible witnesses have come forward, or given any type of actual Testimony.

Do you really think you have the right to tell your "public" that it's a mystery why Kenny had so much money just before he died? is it right that websites still carry on about Kenny purchasing his "modest home" in cash? that's a grey area for lies as well, but basically it's poor investigating. you would be screaming LIAR for months if someone else had mistakes like these.

When you open your wallet up, no badge is found. you don't have the skills you think you have. it's very clear to see. Skipp has a badge, but failed to properly investigate Kenny as well. I don't claim to be nothing more than what I am. I research this case as a hobby. if I was in your position, I would of found the proper resources to handle the investigation if I felt something was evident and worth the time.

In the future you might want to back off walking tall with a big stick. that stick might jump out of your hands and land between your eye's looking like that little wood puppet dude. perhaps it's time to turn this thread back over to these fine people and allow Cooper to be discussed, and not what happens elsewhere?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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I have reviewed the above posts but I really don't want to get into some huge discussion about it right now. I don't see the point of it. There is one thing by Robert99 however that is just plain bullshit:

Quote

'Your treatment of Margie is just plain stalking according to the Washington State laws that others posted here for your benefit....'



All interviews with Margie Geestman, with the exception of the first one, (cold call, since she had no phone) were arranged in advance by mail. You are misinformed. No one 'stalked' her. Are you kidding? She lives two hundred and fifty miles each way from my frickin' office. And you have to cross two mountain passes each way to get there. All interviews were done by permission. Since she didn't have a phone, it would be dumb to try driving that far without an appointment. :S

The new report will be released in January to the Seattle FBI, whether anyone 'approves' or not, or likes it or not. If the Seattle FBI have additional questions or a problem with it, my address and phone are included in it.

Some of the stuff you guys are bringing up is years old, when we first started investigating Kenny. A lot of things were not yet straight at that time. We discovered quite a bit about Kenny, his friends, his financials, along the way.

Robert99: Hearsay evidence is when someone quotes what they heard from someone else. The testimony of the witnesses was direct testimony on things THEY personally knew about, and was mostly recorded either on video or voice recorder. And since the contact information on these people is included for the FBI in the report, it goes beyond the realm of hearsay.

I wouldn't worry. The FBI will probably ignore everything anyway.


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Failure in answering the question asked by two posters about the agents has already answered the question. like you are stating to R99, it's bullshit. the corner is getting tight I'm assuming :)
No problem....when people read this they will know.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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You guys made another site that is closed to all but a few to discuss Cooper - yet everyday I open the DZ & you guy are here bashing the DZ.
Doing everything you can to get the site closed.

The DZ I am sure realizes what you are doing. To insure that other site survives - you have to get this one closed.

YOUR only purpose posting here is to create havoc & to get this thread closed.

I ask & I plead with you to stop!
It is very painful for me to post right now. There are things happening NONE of you are aware of & it has ZERO to do with Shutters site....

On the Index site you guys are NOT discussing suspects - supposedly you wanted space to research the aspects of the crime. Instead all you do is bash the DZ because I am allow to discuss Weber and other are able to discuss suspect.

If you GUY succeed in your efforts you WILL close down the ONLY source other who have suspects can go to.

Remember Vickie and others came here to explore their subjects and others eventually will come....SO PLEASE TAKE YOUR CONVERSATION TO THE INDEX and stop trying to shut the DZ.

The Index is not constructed to entice the public media attention. The DZ is more appealing to the Common person with a suspect or just interested in the crime.

The INDEX is geared to the TECHNICAL savy individuals.

the technical aspect but a place for individual like my self to discuss a subject.

I agree Blevins SHOULD not be allow to discuss his book & to repetitively tell lies - but, shutting down the DZ is a NO win. The Index just wants the competitions to shut down so they can get more traffic....but you will be defeated it there is not AN OPEN PUBLIC site for individuals to present subjects.

I agree Blevins promotion of his book is OVER KILL, but that is for the DZ to decide and not for the competition at the INDEX to dictate.

The INDEX is not geared for people like me - the older generation who just might have an uncle or grandfather who died and want to explore it without all of the mumbo jumbo about the flight...That 74 yr old daughter whose Dad just died - is not interested in wading thru the INDEX. The DZ is the obviouse place for individuals like myself and others who had a relative they thought was Cooper to come.

Remember they have come here and then you recruit the younger more computer savy ones to your site - but the most viable will be individuals in my age category or older.

PLEASE STOP PLEASE - PLEASE.
NONE OF YOU HAVE A DAMN CLUE WHAT IS HAPPENING. I AM TYPING THUR PAIN BEYOND BELIEF. I WAS IN THE DR.S OFFICE AND THE ER TODAY.

TOMORROW WILL BE MORE OF THE SAME - PLEASE STOP - PLEASE STOP LEAVE THIS THREAD ALONG PLEASE!

NO one from the INDEX should be alowed to come here to bad mouth the DZ and suggest it be shut down!

The INDEX has a completely different agenda than the DZ....SO PLEASE LEAVE US BE....NO DUAL POSTING.

ou can read the DZ and I can read the Index - SO please leave this thread alone - please.

I am begging you to leave this thread alone.

It has become obvious certain posters from the other site only come to this site to make spiteful and demeaning POSTS...AND with only one purpose.

PLYOU GUYS do NOT know what is going on. There are PICTURES the FBI has never seen & the public has never seen...pictures that were in the possession of Duane Weber.

I found the negatives & there are specialist trying to extract the images from the old negatives. I was talking to WA about this tonight and why I came her to make a short post & now I had to make a long painful post.

I am not supposed to be using my right hand.

PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE - I NEED THIS THREAD FOR THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.

I am LEARNing HOW TO HATE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE - People so self centered they do not care who the harm.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

I have reviewed the above posts but I really don't want to get into some huge discussion about it right now. I don't see the point of it. There is one thing by Robert99 however that is just plain bullshit:

Quote

'Your treatment of Margie is just plain stalking according to the Washington State laws that others posted here for your benefit....'



All interviews with Margie Geestman, with the exception of the first one, (cold call, since she had no phone) were arranged in advance by mail. You are misinformed. No one 'stalked' her. Are you kidding? She lives two hundred and fifty miles each way from my frickin' office. And you have to cross two mountain passes each way to get there. All interviews were done by permission. Since she didn't have a phone, it would be dumb to try driving that far without an appointment. :S

The new report will be released in January to the Seattle FBI, whether anyone 'approves' or not, or likes it or not. If the Seattle FBI have additional questions or a problem with it, my address and phone are included in it.

Some of the stuff you guys are bringing up is years old, when we first started investigating Kenny. A lot of things were not yet straight at that time. We discovered quite a bit about Kenny, his friends, his financials, along the way.

Robert99: Hearsay evidence is when someone quotes what they heard from someone else. The testimony of the witnesses was direct testimony on things THEY personally knew about, and was mostly recorded either on video or voice recorder. And since the contact information on these people is included for the FBI in the report, it goes beyond the realm of hearsay.

I wouldn't worry. The FBI will probably ignore everything anyway.



Blevins, On the Margie matter, I believe you posted at length about how she sold her property to the State of Washington for several hundred thousand dollars and then moved while telling her lawyer and banker not to give her new address to anyone.

And you then spent some time talking to her banker and trying to get him to reveal her new address. When he wouldn't, you complained that you would have to wait for her utility bills to start appearing on various sites before you could find Margie's new address. Personally, I would consider this to be stalking.

On the matter of the meaning of the word "hearsay", my desk dictionary gives two meanings and I will fully give both of them:

1. Hearsay: Information which cannot be adequately substantiated; rumour.

2. Hearsay: The report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

I will defer to 377 on this, but I personally don't think anyone is going to court on hearsay evidence alone in the Cooper matter.

Robert99

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Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Blevins, On the Margie matter, I believe you posted at length about how she sold her property to the State of Washington for several hundred thousand dollars and then moved while telling her lawyer and banker not to give her new address to anyone.

And you then spent some time talking to her banker and trying to get him to reveal her new address. When he wouldn't, you complained that you would have to wait for her utility bills to start appearing on various sites before you could find Margie's new address. Personally, I would consider this to be stalking....'



I have been reasonably patient with you, but now you are just making stuff up. I contacted the bank officer by telephone after Margie moved. He told me she had asked not to have her present location revealed. I did NOT press him on the matter. He volunteered to me that Margie had moved to a condo and he asked me what my connection was to her. I told him about the Geestman/Christiansen/DB Cooper stuff, the interviews, the History Channel show, and the book. He asked to see a copy of the book, so I emailed him the PDF. I haven't made the slightest effort to find or contact her since that time. I could do this easily by dropping forty bucks at US Search, just like you or anyone else, but I didn't bother, not even for the upcoming report on Christiansen. I did run a Google search on her once just out of curiosity, but it came up that she was still at the ranch so I left it at that.

Before you start saying that Margie did all this because of me, let me set you straight. My interview relationship with Margie was both courteous and mutual. We did seven interviews together. On the final one in August 2010, I told her I wouldn't be visiting her any more. And I never contacted her again. She sold the place in mid-2012. Since Twisp, WA is a very small town (Pop. 900) and they have cable tv and read books, my personal belief is that Margie sold her ranch and bailed town to avoid certain questions or possible contact by the FBI. So I imagine after the book and History Channel show emerged she was getting questions at the grocery store checkout line. Most of the locals knew she had been married to Bernie Geestman for years.

A couple of the interviews were done in her living room. The rest were done while we walked around her ranch feeding the horse, checking the other animals. Sometimes I would give snacks to her dog. Pretty non-stalking, harmless stuff. And as I said previously, the last six interviews were arranged in advance by personal letter. This means I would send her an interview request for a certain date (a Saturday or Sunday, since I work during the week) and include a self-addressed stamped envelope for her reply. She would mail me back a confirmation, I would then make the long drive. As I said, she lives a five-hour drive from my office each way and you have to cross both Snoqualmie and Blewett Passes to get there.

And back...

I don't know where she is today and I don't care. If the Seattle FBI decides to look her up based upon her testimony in the report on Christiansen, I'm sure they can find her.

Problem here is you keep putting your foot into your mouth without going to the source first. Just makes you look uninformed, Robert.

I'm going to attach a couple of 'non-stalking' type photos for you from the interviews. :S On a couple of them she offered them up for our files. One I took myself. It's the 'Third Interview' picture, the one taken with her posing near her hat collection. She actually suggested this pose. Look like to you I was 'stalking' or 'abusing' her? I think not. ;)

Unlike how Bruce Smith works in interviews, I find you get better results by treating people with courtesy and respect, rather than browbeating them or thinking they owe you something. This approach is what enabled me to get interviews with Bernie Geestman's own family this summer, something you would think impossible to do since they had seen me on History Channel already. But if you use manners, you can get interviews with even possibly hostile witnesses.

As it turned out, they were pretty cooperative.

EDIT: You also say in part:

Quote

'On the matter of the meaning of the word "hearsay", my desk dictionary gives two meanings and I will fully give both of them:

1. Hearsay: Information which cannot be adequately substantiated; rumour.

2. Hearsay: The report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

I will defer to 377 on this, but I personally don't think anyone is going to court on hearsay evidence alone in the Cooper matter...'



You are absolutely correct on this. But I am not submitting the report as 'evidence'. It's a report and nothing more. It would be up to the FBI to contact the witnesses listed in the report and verify their testimony, or decide on the merits of any information contained within it. The report alone is worthless in a court of law, as far as my notes on their testimony. It is merely informational, a tool provided to the Seattle FBI. I guess you could say some of the pictures and docs could be considered legit evidence to a degree, and maybe Lyle's DNA profile especially, but that's all that could be remotely considered evidence. And even then, it would be up to the Seattle FBI to decide on its merits, how to proceed with it, or even if they should proceed with it.

Chances are pretty small they will actually investigate the merits of the report anyway, so I wouldn't worry. I just figured it was a good way to close out my interest in the Kenny investigation. After five years, it is my last word on the matter, at least with law enforcement and the media.


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Jo, now you are not being honest. I haven't even made a post in several days on that forum. could be please copy/paste the bashing about this thread?

I will repeat this for the 20th time. nobody is blocked from that site except one person. you have changed your tune since Matt made the comment about this thread. my last post was made November 3rd Jo, today is the 6th!

Georger made a long post about no supervision here, and how it's not going to change. he made a comment about 377 wanting Sluggo and the others back. then he discusses wanting to leave here several times over the years he was here. he does take a crack at 377, but it's nothing other than what it is. he is giving his opinion.

As R99 asked, what is the INDEX page? are you trying to say it's a hidden page? I don't have any hidden pages.

You are taking things out of context. I have several topics that are not related to Cooper. I separated them into two different categories. 15 threads are Cooper related, and 3 were moved to a different category.

Totally Off Topic
Website Problems...Big Ones
Understanding This Forum

I'm asking legit questions to Robert just as anyone else can do. he doesn't want to answer the questions. this raises a red flag. when credibility comes into question it causes more questions to be asked. that's what I'm doing. it wasn't me who brought this up either. this has nothing to do with you Jo, unless you were part of it which I seriously doubt.

The jumpers who deserve being here on there own website designed for that sport are tired of all of this behavior from all of us! I'm asking questions, I'm not bashing, attacking, or trying to close this thread by asking simple questions Jo. I can't control what people from other forums say here. it's not a conspiracy by anyone by any means!

I challenge anyone to go to my site and come back here and tell me they couldn't see the site, or noticed hidden topics, or threads on that forum. I'll will say that there is 19 topics, but only 18 can be viewed. the reason is because I have a technical guy by the name of Skhilled who helps me with the site. he made a Staff page where we can discuss problems with the site that others don't have to see! running a forum is a lot of work, more than I thought. problems occur that need attention. I now have help with resolving them.

My challenge excludes Robert B, and you. I don't think you know how to navigate the forum, most do.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Blevins, On the Margie matter, I believe you posted at length about how she sold her property to the State of Washington for several hundred thousand dollars and then moved while telling her lawyer and banker not to give her new address to anyone.

And you then spent some time talking to her banker and trying to get him to reveal her new address. When he wouldn't, you complained that you would have to wait for her utility bills to start appearing on various sites before you could find Margie's new address. Personally, I would consider this to be stalking....'



I have been reasonably patient with you, but now you are just making stuff up. I contacted the bank officer by telephone after Margie moved. He told me she had asked not to have her present location revealed. I did NOT press him on the matter. He volunteered to me that Margie had moved to a condo and he asked me what my connection was to her. I told him about the Geestman/Christiansen/DB Cooper stuff, the interviews, the History Channel show, and the book. He asked to see a copy of the book, so I emailed him the PDF. I haven't made the slightest effort to find or contact her since that time. I could do this easily by dropping forty bucks at US Search, just like you or anyone else, but I didn't bother, not even for the upcoming report on Christiansen. I did run a Google search on her once just out of curiosity, but it came up that she was still at the ranch so I left it at that.

Before you start saying that Margie did all this because of me, let me set you straight. My interview relationship with Margie was both courteous and mutual. We did seven interviews together. On the final one in August 2010, I told her I wouldn't be visiting her any more. And I never contacted her again. She sold the place in mid-2012. Since Twisp, WA is a very small town (Pop. 900) and they have cable tv and read books, my personal belief is that Margie sold her ranch and bailed town to avoid certain questions or possible contact by the FBI. So I imagine after the book and History Channel show emerged she was getting questions at the grocery store checkout line. Most of the locals knew she had been married to Bernie Geestman for years.

A couple of the interviews were done in her living room. The rest were done while we walked around her ranch feeding the horse, checking the other animals. Sometimes I would give snacks to her dog. Pretty non-stalking, harmless stuff. And as I said previously, the last six interviews were arranged in advance by personal letter. This means I would send her an interview request for a certain date (a Saturday or Sunday, since I work during the week) and include a self-addressed stamped envelope for her reply. She would mail me back a confirmation, I would then make the long drive. As I said, she lives a five-hour drive from my office each way and you have to cross both Snoqualmie and Blewett Passes to get there.

And back...

I don't know where she is today and I don't care. If the Seattle FBI decides to look her up based upon her testimony in the report on Christiansen, I'm sure they can find her.

Problem here is you keep putting your foot into your mouth without going to the source first. Just makes you look uninformed, Robert.

I'm going to attach a couple of 'non-stalking' type photos for you from the interviews. :S On a couple of them she offered them up for our files. One I took myself. It's the 'Third Interview' picture, the one taken with her posing near her hat collection. She actually suggested this pose. Look like to you I was 'stalking' or 'abusing' her? I think not. ;)

Unlike how Bruce Smith works in interviews, I find you get better results by treating people with courtesy and respect, rather than browbeating them or thinking they owe you something. This approach is what enabled me to get interviews with Bernie Geestman's own family this summer, something you would think impossible to do since they had seen me on History Channel already. But if you use manners, you can get interviews with even possibly hostile witnesses.

As it turned out, they were pretty cooperative.

EDIT: You also say in part:

***'On the matter of the meaning of the word "hearsay", my desk dictionary gives two meanings and I will fully give both of them:

1. Hearsay: Information which cannot be adequately substantiated; rumour.

2. Hearsay: The report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

I will defer to 377 on this, but I personally don't think anyone is going to court on hearsay evidence alone in the Cooper matter...'



You are absolutely correct on this. But I am not submitting the report as 'evidence'. It's a report and nothing more. It would be up to the FBI to contact the witnesses listed in the report and verify their testimony, or decide on the merits of any information contained within it. The report alone is worthless in a court of law, as far as my notes on their testimony. It is merely informational, a tool provided to the Seattle FBI. I guess you could say some of the pictures and docs could be considered legit evidence to a degree, and maybe Lyle's DNA profile especially, but that's all that could be remotely considered evidence. And even then, it would be up to the Seattle FBI to decide on its merits, how to proceed with it, or even if they should proceed with it.

Chances are pretty small they will actually investigate the merits of the report anyway, so I wouldn't worry. I just figured it was a good way to close out my interest in the Kenny investigation. After five years, it is my last word on the matter, at least with law enforcement and the media.

Blevins, Other than putting your own spin on my earlier post, you have basically verified that post.

As far as your claim about Margie leaving town to "avoid certain questions or possible contact with the FBI", I think that is laughable. The "I" in FBI does stand for "Investigation" you know. And I think their track record for doing investigations is quite a bit better than yours. If the FBI wanted to contact Margie, they probably could do so in less time that it has taken you to read this paragraph.

Based on my personal experiences, I wouldn't rate driving over Snoqualmie Pass, even during a snow storm (and I have), as being a life changing event. After all, it is barely 3000 feet above sea level. If you want to drive over some big time mountain passes, just check the Rocky Mountains among others. I have driven over passes that were more than 11,000 feet above sea level with no problems.

Robert99

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If Margie Geestman wanted to avoid all of the questions and the attention from this, a much simpler alternative would have been to not do the interview at all. Saying she left town because of theses things is 100% pure speculation, which fits, because that's what the whole KC is Cooper argument is anyway.
"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

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Shutter I have NO idea what you are talking about. Seems like lately you guys shuffle words & make things sound like something they aren't - :| Maybe just me and old age.

I find The INDEX (my name for Shutter's site) difficult to read & to follow, but I am an OLD woman & one who is not well.

The NEGATIVE is that individuals from the INDEX come to the DZ only to agitate & to make remarks about CLOSING the DZ. If "your" guys want to visit here - they need to STOP with the INFLAMMATORY remarks & verbal attempts to get the DZ site shut down.

YOU GUYS launched it an ALL & OUT attack to shut down this thread & that needs to STOP.

I don't post on the INDEX & I address most things thru private email - unless it is something that actually needs to be quoted & brought to the attention of the DZ guys....since some of of them do not go to the INDEX.

Conversation about shutting the DZ down is INFLAMMATORY & should NOT be posted by members of The INDEX If this site had not existed the The INDEX would not exist....supposedly to explore the flight path & other things that required categorization for reference purposes.

The DZ is the place to come to present a suspect & for general knowledge...most readers could careless about the details others pursue.

The attacks against the DZ made by the dual posters needs to stop. The format at the INDEX is just not for everyone.

You guys were subject motivated & needed a place to discuss these things. NOW they come to this thread only to BASH others make negativer remarks about the DZ site.

That conduct is counter productive.
Leave the inflammatory and destructive attacks regarding the DZ at THE INDEX - do not bring them to the DZ.

The INDEX monitor does a great job of keeping the trash talk down, but when they (dual posters) come to the DZ - they have NOTHING positive to say & their motives seemingly are to ATTACK posters on the DZ by twisting the words or ignoring what the poster was attempting to say.

DZ posters have worked hard for many yrs to provide information here for the public who might be interested in Cooper. I OBJECT to Blevins with his continued participation which IS only to PROMOTE his BOOK & no other reason.

Well, Blevins got caught up & we got him straight on he errors - BUT he was like the energizer bunny - he just kept multiply-ing. We created a monster who only had a motive & now is STUCK in one place. I think it is called REPEAT CITY.

No one could focus on Cooper - the entire focus was on Blevins.
NO other subject could be discussed & Blevins just went on and on and on.

Note: Georger is being well controlled at THE INDEX - none of the weird postings bashing others is allowed.

Gray doesn't come here to promote his book - that is an excellent example of how to conduct the sale of a book.

:(I am unable to read back (low energy and difficulty seeing the screen) - but I assure you the inflammatory remarks about shutting this site down are DELIBERATE on the part of those who post at both sights...[:/]>:(

R99 asked, "what is the INDEX page? are you trying to say it's a hidden page? I don't have any hidden pages."

Excellent example of taking things out of context just to confuse or distract in this thread.

:|R99 & Bruce & several others post in dual sites...and when they do they only come to the DZ to bash and put things off topic.:|
Very sad!

No one has mentioned hidden topics in the other site & everyone knows it is still underconstruction and remodeling but it should NOT be advertised on the DZ & the poster from there should NOT be allowed to bring NEGATIVE thing to this thread regarding individual who do NOT post on THE INDEX and therefore cannot defend themselves.

The INDEX was supposedly to explore the flight and other things. Specifics that needed categories so as not to get off track.

When these guys feel like BASHING guess where they come? Sometimes it is just to join in on the conversation - but, as of late they only come here to agitate - it is RAW irritation and with a motive - shut the DZ down.

Jo definitely does NOT know how to navigate that other place - why she would NOT post if given the opportunity to do so. WAY over this old lady - shrinking in body and mind and now spirit.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Now that is a subject I love talking about.

I lived there for 3 1/2 yrs and my daughter went back to CO for an additional yrs.

My father took us on a trip to the Rockies when we were kids.

Duane knew ever road in the area. I will have to map out the excursions one day on a CO map that Duane took my daughter and I on and a few with just the 2 of us.

I love CO and I want to go back, but I will never make it back - not now.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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YOU are not a nice man at all. You want to destroy all that has been done & you do NOT want the truth to be known. You are part of the past & the truths. You will figure that riddle out but the others won't grasp its meaning..
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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