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BruceSmith

***55500 posts…

have you guys come up with anything useful yet?



I've posted my interviews on the three dozen FBI agents I've talked with and principals of the case.

What might you be looking for?

What would you deem as useful?

Further, what drives all the back-biting here, do you think? What does it tell us about the case, if anything?

Does Jo Weber serve a purpose here? Blevins?

What say you?

I'll admit that (currently) at Dropzone I don't offer much of a purpose. I don't have an agenda. Discussing points on the case in general is okay. In the past I've discussed the money, the chute at Amboy, other things. But...then I saw people begin to attack each other. Some were banned. I got a rather jaded attitude about the whole thing.

Then...someone else establishes a NEW site on Cooper, but they are so paranoid they don't want some of the main people who discuss the case to even SEE what is being posted there. This same site wants to be a major player, but their hits according to Google are downright pathetic and their paranoia so extensive it's ridiculous. And...sometimes they talk badly about people here at Dropzone and think no one sees it.

I responded to all that by withdrawing from providing these people more fodder for their foolish behavior. You can't have it both ways. Either you want to be a major player in the Cooper case with a website or you don't. The public generally doesn't support restrictive websites because they sense an agenda. Especially when the facts about that come out HERE...on the website recognized worldwide as the major player on Cooper.

That would be DROPZONE. ;)


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"...Gayla Prociv (head of Adventure Books) ordered that all outgoing comments, or the release of any new information on anything KC would be FROZEN until such time as a public version of the new report is ready.

"That's why I won't answer your questions about Mucklow's alleged trips to Japan...."





Hiding behind Gayla's skirt is just another dodge, Prince Robert.

Tina in Japan with Kenny rules out the hijacking link in my book.

Yours?

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BruceSmith

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"...Gayla Prociv (head of Adventure Books) ordered that all outgoing comments, or the release of any new information on anything KC would be FROZEN until such time as a public version of the new report is ready.

"That's why I won't answer your questions about Mucklow's alleged trips to Japan...."





Hiding behind Gayla's skirt is just another dodge, Prince Robert.

Tina in Japan with Kenny rules out the hijacking link in my book.

Yours?



She gives the orders, although it was a mutual decision between she, Greg, and myself. Do your own research and stop coming to me about this please. If you want to believe this rules out KC as the hijacker, that is your right to do so. You really should do additional research on this question. We did. :)
I'm not answering your questions right now on Christiansen. You'll have to wait for the final version of the report on him like everyone else. You can rule him out if you like, no problem.

EDIT: Not to make it a personal issue so much, but your continued references to me as 'Bobby' and 'Prince Robert' negates any consideration or respect from me you might believe you deserve. Besides...we've seen your posts (and the others from your friends) at the alternate site. :S

No one at AB is even willing to give you the time of day on anything KC-related. You are pretty much on the No-Fly List around here. I'm sorry about that, but you brought it on yourself.


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Blevins writes:

Robert99: I've flown from Seattle to Reno several times. Never once did any flight I was ever on (this goes back to the 70's) ever cross to the west side of the Interstate 5 freeway to get to Reno. And they didn't do it on the way down from Seattle, either. They always approach Portland from the east and don't turn west until they reach the Vancouver area. (See attached map from the FBI's website)

R99 replies:

Routine airline flights would follow either V-23 or V-23E between Seattle and Portland. Surely you would agree that the hijacked airliner flight between those two cities was not a routine flight. And if you read the radio transcripts while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle, you would have noted that the crew was interested in not flying over populated areas with a bomb on board.

You would also have noted that the flight crew was informed that the Chief FAA Psychologist had predicted that the hijacker would blow the plane up when he parachuted from it. That is why the crew wanted to avoid populated areas.

Further, you would have noted that the Seattle ATC controllers gave the hijacked flight crew carte blanche to make any changes to their flight path that they wanted to do.

Blevins writes:

I also saw your post about perhaps the money ended up in the Columbia. This assumes Cooper went into the Columbia, and that would have to be done in the Portland area. Even if this were true, explain to me how at least three bundles of the cash managed to end up on the banks of the Columbia miles away from that point...all in the same spot.

R99 replies:

Your claims are false. I have NEVER said that Cooper landed in the Columbia River! Since 2009, I have repeatedly written that in all probability Cooper landed on solid ground but very near the river water and in the Tina Bar area. This statement of yours is pure nonsense.

Blevins writes:

As I've explained before, unless these bundles had little strings attached to each other holding them together, this scenario is highly unlikely. One thing that Tom Kaye's research on the money shows us, it is that this money did not lay out there for nine years in the cold, wet weather of the Pacific NW before it was found. Bills not 'fanned' either, as Kaye's team discovered happened when those packets are exposed to water. Rubber bands crumbly, but still in place. This money did not float down the Columbia on 11/24/71 and end up together miles away somehow. It would have turned to complete mush in eight plus years.

R99 replies:

I believe everyone who has seriously looked at this matter from Ckret to the present, concluded that the Tina Bar money was not exposed to water for the entire time that it was missing. Instead, it was protected by the bank bag and/or other things. This supports the idea that Cooper landed on dry land. And that three packets were found close together supports the idea of repeatability, meaning that the money arrived at Tina Bar from a nearby location.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support the theory that the money was planted at Tina Bar. All indications are that it arrived there by natural means.

Blevins writes:

I believe the flight path map offered at the FBI's website is accurate. Some of the added notations showing the time the flight reached a particular point may be inaccurate. But the path itself is probably accurate. You admitted yourself that they were tracking that plane and that the radar info is good. Just because they misjudged a few time entries doesn't mean the path itself is wrong...which means Flight 305 missed Tina Bar by miles on the way down from Seattle.

R99 replies:

Of course the Seattle ATC was tracking the hijacked airliner! That was their job. And as I have said any number of times before, the only valid flight path is the one the FBI redacted from the Seattle ATC transcripts.

Your comments on the so-called FBI map are meaningless. Do you have any information that the flight path on that map even represents the hijacked airliner? How about showing some proof for once.

Robert99

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Blevins writes:

I don't have an agenda. Discussing points on the case in general is okay. In the past I've discussed the money, the chute at Amboy, other things. But...then I saw people begin to attack each other. Some were banned. I got a rather jaded attitude about the whole thing.

R99 replies:

Blevins, You have a clearly defined agenda and that is to make a buck off KC who, unfortunately, is dead and cannot defend himself.

Do you remember being banned from DZ? I can remember at least two instances, there may have been more, when you were banned from DZ. Don't you remember them?

Blevins writes:

Then...someone else establishes a NEW site on Cooper . . . This same site wants to be a major player, but their hits according to Google are downright pathetic and their paranoia so extensive it's ridiculous.

R99 replies:

Blevins, you apparently view the Cooper threads as Facebook type operations where the one with the most posts and "likes" wins. That is one of the reasons you and Jo Weber account for about half of the posts on this thread. At the same time, neither of you has done anything meaningful in the Cooper matter.

Blevins writes:

The public generally doesn't support restrictive websites because they sense an agenda. Especially when the facts about that come out HERE...on the website recognized worldwide as the major player on Cooper.

R99 replies:

If what you claim is true (and it is not), then you wouldn't be so concerned about "the other Cooper site".

Dream on.

Robert99

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hcsvader

55500 posts…

have you guys come up with anything useful yet?



Depends on what you mean by useful:ph34r:

This marvelous thread has generated more traffic than the rest of dizzy. combined.

It has something to do with Google search and potential future owners.:ph34r:

OK OK I'LL give it another shot.

Would you consider it useful if you couldn't stop laughing with tears running down your face.Read the stickie on page one. :D:D:D

Warning we're treading on dangerous ground here.B| Peeps have been banned for less with the negative vibes related to this thread.
You can't have unrealistic expectations about how challenging it is solve a major crime like this. :|

If the premier law enforcement in the Greatest country gave up. You have to admire the DB groupies reluctance to ignore any clue and investigate it and debate it over over and over again.

It's called defecation, devotion ocd among other things.

BTW it's guys and gals. I think the female that is still posting claims to be db, wife. Sister, aunt, niece, daughter.

Please pay attention there will be a written test.
One Jump Wonder

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BruceSmith

***55500 posts…

have you guys come up with anything useful yet?



I've posted my interviews on the three dozen FBI agents I've talked with and principals of the case.

What might you be looking for?

What would you deem as useful?

Further, what drives all the back-biting here, do you think? What does it tell us about the case, if anything?

Does Jo Weber serve a purpose here? Blevins?

What say you?

You are a frigging smut writer so what are you doing here.

3 Dozen FBI Agents - come on - NO WAY!


YES, Brucie - I do serve a purpose here, I am the Mama who started the first thread and the one who reines you guy in when you state postings with absolutely no sense.

I think everything needed is right hear to solve the case but everyone has to work with everyone else. No one person is going to be the winner......but, maybe.

A trip without media there and we all get together . We meet in the Dalles with a trip to Goldedale and the on down to the Washougal and look for grave and signals on mountains. We run an ad asking the locals to meet the loco with old picture of how thing used to look in 1971.

We make a trip up to Coure Delane and go thru the records there and weather permiting on up to a smokejumper museum and then bact to Twisp for some lodging. Then we go to Spokane and go thru some old records asking for help for the old folk and see what tails they have to tell.

The we pop down to Vancouver ande ask a few question. We hit some of the old skydiving strips - bet I can get Ralph to help with this....then we figure out what old grave and gravel pits have to do with Cooper....who built those strip - the name of the companies..Then to Yakima - a lot of secrets there. Surely there are pictures of the construction. Vancouver and get into some old files and then on up to Puyallup and go see the Stuckee House and check out old records there and then to Seattle and some areas above that. Everyone needs a porfolio on their subject - we all work together.

We make a littl trip to BC (got a passport). Then we see if one of Duane's kids lives there - we use a bus....and we advertise why we are there....Offer a reward for the best leads. We have to may a jump down to Bend Or and check out all the smoragborgs and jump bar..

We check out all the camp. My be a good idea to do this with campers and motor home.

We are going to hit a lot of unknown grave sites - then end up at Ariel for the last day - no guns and no knives - just encase tempers fare....might need a officer to keep the peace.

Anyone gets Drunk - They are OFF the bus and on foot. NO Children.

Now I have to be crazy to propose some thing like this - but perhap this is the way it needs to end....

OH the FBI needs to have reprsentative there.

It will never happen.

There are 2 jump bars you guys can chill out at - me I want to see all of the old jumper files.

Let people talk to us as a group especially from the senior center.
All kind of stories - then I bet I can get some surprise keys to join us for the finally. LIke Mr H is he is well enought, J.T, The local who have help me.

Everyone will get drunk and get thrown in jail along with the FBI agents....except me - I can't drink.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo wrote
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A trip without media there and we all get together . We meet in the Dalles with a trip to Goldedale and the on down to the Washougal and look for grave and signals on mountains. We run an ad asking the locals to meet the loco with old picture of how thing used to look in 1971.



"signals on mountains"??

What exactly do you mean Jo? Don't waste time searching for your imagined radio tower triangulation system. It's a fantasy not a fact. Cooper used eyeball nav and guesstimate dead reckoning, not radio nav.

377

T
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Mark 74

you say" "The reason I kick around these dates is to come up with a motive. Cooper did a lot of planning but what was his grudge?
Nov 24th 63 was when Oswald was killed - was that the motive? JFK could have prevented the assassination of Ngo, was Cooper upset about that? Was he happy Oswald shot JFK? I happen to think he planted the $5800 for a reason if he didn't then this is pointless."

I say, "my suspect Sheridan Peterson had a Grudge when he lived at my house ten years before Norjak"

His Grudge when he lived with me was about the System that included his childhood, Marines, work situatioins and all. He felt he was not compensated enough for his education and abilities. That is why his mantra was about "devising the system to beat the System". That was shown in letter three salutation to the newspapers.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com

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RobertMBlevins

Sorry if I hit a nerve there.

Quote

'The lady doth protest too much, methinks...'

Hamlet



I call them as I see them. It's as simple as that.



Blevins, You did not hit a nerve. You are the one who has been whining about "the other site". And you and Jo Weber are the reasons why "the other site" was created.

Robert99

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I'm sorry I have a habit of getting ahead of my self let me try and be concise;
Nov 24th 63 Oswald was killed
add 2900 days and you get Nov 2, '71 the anniversary of the Ngo assassination.
Nov 24th '71 the skyjack by Cooper, add 2900 days and you get Nov 2cnd '79 Ngo's anniversary.
2900+2900=5800 So if he did plant the money then he seems to be saying the connection between Oswald and Cooper is the Ngo death

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"...You are pretty much on the No-Fly List around here..."





But are Tina and Kenny on the Yes-Fly list to Japan???

Funny how this question just won't go away, isn't it Bobby, or whomever you would like to be called.

I'll make you a deal, Mr. Blevins, you answer the Japan question and I'll address you as Robert for a week. It's called earning respect, and so far you haven't warranted it.

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Bruce has an assignment directed to him by Galen Cook from the other site. GO to the DZ and CRASH it - "Make postings that you know will encite. Do whatever you have to do to get the DZ site closed down."

The inflammatory postings about Jo and others - had been curtailed. Suddenly JO is not allowed to view the thread. I never wanted to post there.

Bruce was responsible for Shutter establishing the "other place" buy continues to post here with rude & diversive postings... his posting are seldom informative - standard MO - attacking or off the wall.

Bruce is here for ONLY one reason right now - and that is to divert, agitate and cause the thread to be shut down....yet, it was his idea to create another site!

Do not any of you see the motive and/or reason for his off the wall postings other than to incite?

He encited me last night & I had taken my medication - but, instead of signing off & going to bed - I blew off at him with a long non comprehensive post.



:)
NOTE: What the co-pilot stated per my notes

1. Could see the haze of Vancouver to the right.

2. Stayed East of Portland to keep away from populated areas.

The map as publicized to the West shows the plane over a MAJOR developement of low income workers in the Portland area.

They were told to stay out of populated areas - in 1971 the East route was farms and open spaces - not wet lands and condensed low income housing as existed on the West side. (Regardless of the arguement you guys have stated in the past - the EAST side was less populated and with more open spaces to divert in the event of a disastor.)

The plane took an eastward turn using the logic they were asked to use...staying out of populated areas - just encase. The co-pilot made the judgement call he was trained to make.

An emergency landing west of Portland would have been impossible in 1971...if it occurred just as they crossed the Columbia.

An emergency landing or crash or explosion East of Portland was without the insurmountable destruction of homes and lives....

The West route was too CLOSE to Portland to be feasible - the crew did the right thing and did what they were told to do - used their own judgement.

Maybe there was some other protocol like COMMON SENSE. In 1971 there were NO tall buildings along the East side and the population was sparse - some developement, but still lots of open space if the pilot was able to have any control over the plane at all.

Remember there was supposedly a bomb on that plane....they didn't know how much destruction might occur if Cooper used his BOMB!

The crew knew if the bomb blew they would not survive - but they had to think about what was BELOW them....this was discussed.

Someone earlier disclaimed all of this - but ALL you need is a map from 1968 of Portland & surrounding area - with streets as compared to how it looks today and how it looked in 1979....MAJOR developement occurred during those yrs...major!

I was personally there in 1979 - remember....NONE of those shopping centers were there in mass as they are now. There was subdivisions in the contructional phase - but plenty open land. Most of what I could see was off the highway until we got further West...then we turned and went East and did a cut back, because Duane wanted to take another route rather than continue South down the highway.

At the point of that turn - that was the most condensed area we had been in along that highway.

NOTE: Duane did NOT need a map and when he made that turn we had to make another turn to reach the area he wanted to get to...but he needed NO map...that area was established....he commented about their CHANGING the light - DAMN I just REMEMBERED that!
Goose Bumps!
Now a tear - How in God's name did I remember that & do not believe have not told it before.

From the time we entered the interstate highway from the road going East out of Portland the population and construction was sparse - until we approached the area I have describes above...I lost some maps in WA in 2010 - they may have been left in Bruce's truck or in one of the rooms or the vehicle rental.

Now back to the co-pilot and the route:

Back to WA and the flight!

The little hesitation the plane made when the aft stairs sprang back was just as he made his turn and may be why he noted the haze....but they could NOT be sure if Cooper was gone.

They were concerned about flying with the door open even when they felt sure Cooper was gone...and what if he left the bomb on board? There were many things going thru their minds - but the most important thing was to stay a course that would cause less harm to others if the plane blew.

Permission to do what was necessary! I am sure at this point in time they were more occupied with safety than their exact position.

What the "experts" ignore is something came up missing... what came up missing had to do with the transcription between PDF and the plane. NO ONE knows what happened to them - NO ONE!

I was many yrs ago able to talk to one gentleman there who talked to me off the record - because they were under ORDERS not to discuss this. He told me about the missing transcripts out of the Portland tower - IT was a manual transcript - and for some reason the file was removed from there.

Now why there was a manual transcript? I did NOT understand - but remember I really had little knowledge of the crime & less about airports & planes - but the man knew who I was & felt I needed to know. For some reason. He had felt it was something they should keep - but, it went POOF!

Not what he said - POOF is my wording.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert99

***Sorry if I hit a nerve there.

Quote

'The lady doth protest too much, methinks...'

Hamlet



I call them as I see them. It's as simple as that.



Blevins, You did not hit a nerve. You are the one who has been whining about "the other site". And you and Jo Weber are the reasons why "the other site" was created.

Robert99

Yeah...that and to provide the attackers a place to hang out after they were banned at Dropzone for their internet behavior. And then I see from posts there that some of you will believe anything said...no matter how ridiculous...as long as it concerns someone you personally do not like.

I don't care about the site, per se. Neither does the public much, apparently. I wouldn't post over there even if I could. I keep tabs on what's being posted just to see who the two-faced folks are when they visit HERE. That's about it.

Bruce Smith says in part:

Quote

'But are Tina and Kenny on the Yes-Fly list to Japan???

Funny how this question just won't go away, isn't it Bobby, or whomever you would like to be called.

I'll make you a deal, Mr. Blevins, you answer the Japan question and I'll address you as Robert for a week. It's called earning respect, and so far you haven't warranted it...'


Whatever. You have me all wrong. I don't CARE what you think about Kenny, or whether you believe he was Cooper etc. or your opinions on that. Your offer is patently ridiculous on its face anyway.

Here's my answer: NO. Do your own research on Kenny Christiansen. Took me less than a day to figure out the answer to your question. You've spent two weeks asking me to provide it to you for free. Don't worry, it will be covered when the new report on him is released. We saw the same news article, you know.

Here's something that's actually funny: When I spent a lot of time here discussing Kenny Christiansen, all I heard from some people was constant complaining and whining about it. People said I was here to sell books, or had an agenda to sell a screenplay, etc. Then when I STOP talking about him...well, you can figure out the rest.

Only in Cooperland. ;)

Sorry, Bruce. You'll have to wait for the report like everyone else. Maybe you should bring up a different suspect or a different question or point about the Cooper case. As far as your question, you'll figure it out on your own sooner or later.


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Robert99[guote]

Blevins, You did not hit a nerve. You are the one who has been whining about "the other site". And you and Jo Weber are the reasons why "the other site" was created.

Robert99

Duhh! It was created by a guy who didn't want to follow the RULES and kept getting banned! That was Bruce, but he did not have the mean to create a real site - so Shutter took on the task.

Shutter even had to put the clamps on Bruce over there - many times. So Bruce comes over here to ACTS OUT! He can't behave like that at Shutter's place.

Note the silly little boy questions he keeps throwing at Blevins and calling him BOBBY. A stupit question that is not worth a post to repeat.

He does this to keep us from having uniform discussions and to distract and it is a ploy to cause Blevins and other like myself to repy...creating chaos and taking away for what the thread was created for.

To discuss the suspects, the crime and attempt to uncover somethings the FBI missed & hope someone offers up new information.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Bruce Smith says in part:

Quote

'I'll make you a deal, Mr. Blevins, you answer the Japan question and I'll address you as Robert for a week. It's called earning respect, and so far you haven't warranted it...'



A whole WEEK? Wow. I'm impressed. That's like 168 hours of actual Bruce Smith respect and stuff. How do I rate such an offer? :S

How about this: No thanks.

Do your own research on Kenny.

There are two good reasons why you should research this question on your own. First, I'm not going to tell you my results. Second, if I see yours first I can compare them to mine to discover if you came up with the same things I did. This is the most fair, since I researched this question first, after I saw the article, and you did NOT.

So...please stop your whining to me...and get to work. ;)

The staff at AB would like to share this song with you. One of our favorites. :)


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Robert99

Blevins writes:

Robert99: I've flown from Seattle to Reno several times. Never once did any flight I was ever on (this goes back to the 70's) ever cross to the west side of the Interstate 5 freeway to get to Reno. And they didn't do it on the way down from Seattle, either. They always approach Portland from the east and don't turn west until they reach the Vancouver area. (See attached map from the FBI's website)

R99 replies:

Routine airline flights would follow either V-23 or V-23E between Seattle and Portland. Surely you would agree that the hijacked airliner flight between those two cities was not a routine flight. And if you read the radio transcripts while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle, you would have noted that the crew was interested in not flying over populated areas with a bomb on board.

You would also have noted that the flight crew was informed that the Chief FAA Psychologist had predicted

Quote

Quote

that the hijacker would blow the plane up when he parachuted from it. That is why the crew wanted to avoid populated areas.

Further, you would have noted that the Seattle ATC controllers gave the hijacked flight crew carte blanche to make any changes to their flight path that they wanted to do.

Blevins writes:

I also saw your post about perhaps the money ended up in the Columbia. This assumes Cooper went into the Columbia, and that would have to be done in the Portland area. Even if this were true, explain to me how at least three bundles of the cash managed to end up on the banks of the Columbia miles away from that point...all in the same spot.

R99 replies:

Your claims are false. I have NEVER said that Cooper landed in the Columbia River! Since 2009, I have repeatedly written that in all probability Cooper landed on solid ground but very near the river water and in the Tina Bar area. This statement of yours is pure nonsense.

Blevins writes:

As I've explained before, unless these bundles had little strings attached to each other holding them together, this scenario is highly unlikely. One thing that Tom Kaye's research on the money shows us, it is that this money did not lay out there for nine years in the cold, wet weather of the Pacific NW before it was found. Bills not 'fanned' either, as Kaye's team discovered happened when those packets are exposed to water. Rubber bands crumbly, but still in place. This money did not float down the Columbia on 11/24/71 and end up together miles away somehow. It would have turned to complete mush in eight plus years.

R99 replies:

I believe everyone who has seriously looked at this matter from Ckret to the present, concluded that the Tina Bar money was not exposed to water for the entire time that it was missing. Instead, it was protected by the bank bag and/or other things. This supports the idea that Cooper landed on dry land. And that three packets were found close together supports the idea of repeatability, meaning that the money arrived at Tina Bar from a nearby location.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support the theory that the money was planted at Tina Bar. All indications are that it arrived there by natural means.

Blevins writes:

I believe the flight path map offered at the FBI's website is accurate. Some of the added notations showing the time the flight reached a particular point may be inaccurate. But the path itself is probably accurate. You admitted yourself that they were tracking that plane and that the radar info is good. Just because they misjudged a few time entries doesn't mean the path itself is wrong...which means Flight 305 missed Tina Bar by miles on the way down from Seattle.

R99 replies:

Of course the Seattle ATC was tracking the hijacked airliner! That was their job. And as I have said any number of times before, the only valid flight path is the one the FBI redacted from the Seattle ATC transcripts.

Your comments on the so-called FBI map are meaningless. Do you have any information that the flight path on that map even represents the hijacked airliner? How about showing some proof for once.

Robert99

The pilot who said he wanted to fly over the ocean could have purposely flown over the river (?)

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mark74

***Blevins writes:

Robert99: I've flown from Seattle to Reno several times. Never once did any flight I was ever on (this goes back to the 70's) ever cross to the west side of the Interstate 5 freeway to get to Reno. And they didn't do it on the way down from Seattle, either. They always approach Portland from the east and don't turn west until they reach the Vancouver area. (See attached map from the FBI's website)

R99 replies:

Routine airline flights would follow either V-23 or V-23E between Seattle and Portland. Surely you would agree that the hijacked airliner flight between those two cities was not a routine flight. And if you read the radio transcripts while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle, you would have noted that the crew was interested in not flying over populated areas with a bomb on board.

You would also have noted that the flight crew was informed that the Chief FAA Psychologist had predicted

Quote

Quote

that the hijacker would blow the plane up when he parachuted from it. That is why the crew wanted to avoid populated areas.

Further, you would have noted that the Seattle ATC controllers gave the hijacked flight crew carte blanche to make any changes to their flight path that they wanted to do.

Blevins writes:

I also saw your post about perhaps the money ended up in the Columbia. This assumes Cooper went into the Columbia, and that would have to be done in the Portland area. Even if this were true, explain to me how at least three bundles of the cash managed to end up on the banks of the Columbia miles away from that point...all in the same spot.

R99 replies:

Your claims are false. I have NEVER said that Cooper landed in the Columbia River! Since 2009, I have repeatedly written that in all probability Cooper landed on solid ground but very near the river water and in the Tina Bar area. This statement of yours is pure nonsense.

Blevins writes:

As I've explained before, unless these bundles had little strings attached to each other holding them together, this scenario is highly unlikely. One thing that Tom Kaye's research on the money shows us, it is that this money did not lay out there for nine years in the cold, wet weather of the Pacific NW before it was found. Bills not 'fanned' either, as Kaye's team discovered happened when those packets are exposed to water. Rubber bands crumbly, but still in place. This money did not float down the Columbia on 11/24/71 and end up together miles away somehow. It would have turned to complete mush in eight plus years.

R99 replies:

I believe everyone who has seriously looked at this matter from Ckret to the present, concluded that the Tina Bar money was not exposed to water for the entire time that it was missing. Instead, it was protected by the bank bag and/or other things. This supports the idea that Cooper landed on dry land. And that three packets were found close together supports the idea of repeatability, meaning that the money arrived at Tina Bar from a nearby location.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support the theory that the money was planted at Tina Bar. All indications are that it arrived there by natural means.

Blevins writes:

I believe the flight path map offered at the FBI's website is accurate. Some of the added notations showing the time the flight reached a particular point may be inaccurate. But the path itself is probably accurate. You admitted yourself that they were tracking that plane and that the radar info is good. Just because they misjudged a few time entries doesn't mean the path itself is wrong...which means Flight 305 missed Tina Bar by miles on the way down from Seattle.

R99 replies:

Of course the Seattle ATC was tracking the hijacked airliner! That was their job. And as I have said any number of times before, the only valid flight path is the one the FBI redacted from the Seattle ATC transcripts.

Your comments on the so-called FBI map are meaningless. Do you have any information that the flight path on that map even represents the hijacked airliner? How about showing some proof for once.

Robert99

The pilot who said he wanted to fly over the ocean could have purposely flown over the river (?)

The short answer is "yes", but the airliner was above several cloud layers and an overcast so that the river could not have been seen visually. In addition, the airliner was only over the river proper for a few miles (at more than three miles per minute groundspeed) so the probability of Cooper landing in water deliberately is quite low. The crew didn't know when he planned to jump or when he actually did jump.

In all probability, the airliner was just taking a short cut around the west side of Portland, to avoid flying over the city, when Cooper jumped. Somewhere around Toledo (or the Mayfield/Malay Intersection) the airliner left V-23 and flew direct to the area of the Canby Intersection which is on V-23 and 27 DME miles south of the present day Battleground VORTAC.

The above shortcut would mean that the airliner either overflew or passed very close to Tina Bar. Note that the Columbia River runs north, or a couple of degrees east of north, at Tina Bar. In any event, all of the chase aircraft and the helicopter that tried to sight the airliner were vectored to the west and southwest sides of Portland.

There is nothing to support a flight path on the east side of Portland or even east of Tina Bar. The people who claim the flight stayed on V-23 or east of it while in the Portland area are simply making that claim since they need Cooper to survive the hijacking to support their claims about their Cooper candidates.

Further, the topography of the Tina Bar area is so unique that additional statements can be made once the flight path has been pinned down. And we need the un-redacted Seattle ATC transcripts to do that.

Robert99

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Robert99



Of course the Seattle ATC was tracking the hijacked airliner! That was their job. And as I have said any number of times before, the only valid flight path is the one the FBI redacted from the Seattle ATC transcripts.

Robert99



Robert99 - you are the one being ridiculous at this point. YOU seem driven to convince everyone the plane was West of Seattle.

Why? As the plane approached Portland - communications with the PDF come into play and NO ONE know why those transcripts were REMOVED from the PDX office....

Where you aware the transcripts from the PDX went POOF After Jo started to question the FBI in 2000. When Jo had volunteers out there trying to obtain information...I believe I might be able to verify this with a phone bill.

I need the phone number of the Portland PDX in 2000 - can someone get that and tonight I will pull the old phone records...then we will know exactly when I spoke to the man who is now retired and probably deceased.
At the time - I had to keep the conversation confidential, but later on learned he had retired, but had no way of contacting him.

The phone number will track me back to my planner logs - and hopefully the name of the man I spoke to will be written on that page on that date in the log.

I have gotten rid of many things and I did reduce my log by tearing out pages with nothing on them or pages I didn't think related to Cooper.

If the contact I made with the man was AFTER 2001 then it will be sheer luck to find anything on a log as I was not working full time - for some reason I want to think it was AFTER Sluggo came to see me....and that was much much later. After 2008.

After 2001 -- - I went on a flat long distance charge...so no itemized billings. If I didn't log the conversation in my planner or on a calender then I will have no record.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

***

Of course the Seattle ATC was tracking the hijacked airliner! That was their job. And as I have said any number of times before, the only valid flight path is the one the FBI redacted from the Seattle ATC transcripts.

Robert99



Robert99 - you are the one being ridiculous at this point. YOU seem driven to convince everyone the plane was West of Seattle.

Why? As the plane approached Portland - communications with the PDF come into play and NO ONE know why those transcripts were REMOVED from the PDX office....

Where you aware the transcripts from the PDX went POOF After Jo started to question the FBI in 2000. When Jo had volunteers out there trying to obtain information...I believe I might be able to verify this with a phone bill.

Jo, You don't understand how the Air Traffic Control system operates. On the flight to Reno, the Portland Airport would not be contacted by the airliner which was under direct control of the Seattle ATC Center. Portland was NOT involved.

It makes no difference what happened to any radio transcripts in Portland. The transcripts in question involved the Seattle ATC communications and not anything from Portland.

The FBI had transcripts of ALL relevant communications from both the Seattle ATC and Oakland ATC Centers within about a week of the hijacking. The Seattle transcripts were redacted by the FBI but they did not redact the Oakland transcripts.

Nothing has gone POOF that is relevant to the Cooper hijacking communications.

Robert99

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***. And if you read the radio transcripts while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle, you would have noted that the crew was interested in not flying over populated areas with a bomb on board.[/quote "Robert99]

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:o:ph34r::)

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Jo has a story to tell!

:)
The final decision was made in the AIR and under pressure. They did what the had to do - and you do KNOW they tried to stay a direct path for the PDX - hoping by then it would be obvious Cooper was gone....none of them knew what to expect...this skyjacking was not like any the FAA had experienced before.

The decision to by pass Portland was Made in the AIR and by the CREW...because they were NOT sure if Cooper was gone and if he was gone was the BOMB still on the plane? East of Portland - there were NO high rises or condensed populated area - EAST of Portland.

Search and Rescue - was taken into consideration....as was the lost of life and property on land in in the crash zone

Seattle ATC controllers gave the hijacked flight crew carte blanche to make any changes to their flight path that they wanted to do.

The co-pilot and the crew thought Cooper has left the plane - but, had to take caution and it was the choice of the crew . In fact they may have made an abrupt change trying to get Cooper off the aft stairs if he was not already gone.

Also note that right before they turned slightly East into the wind...to facilitate getting Cooper off the plane as quickly as possible. The plane slowed slightly at this point and then the Whoopmmmpf - pressure.

Money in the river - well, I know how that money got there because I was with Dan Cooper when he placed what was left at more than one locations along the river...in 1979.

Part of the bounty had been buried in WA - as Cooper was not taking any chances....and I believe there were others involved.

Duane Weber went to the river ALONE on 3 occassions that day in Oct of 1979. There were 4 stops but I got out with him when he stopped at the Green Tank (therefore NO opportunity to put anything in the water or on the ground).

The Green tank was use to refuel the Tug Boats and Duane knew "someone who used to work for them".

When it was revealed by this thread that Duane had been arrested at Treasure Isle and I had NO knowledge of this until it was put in this thread.... This is when I knew he had told me about himself in 3rd person....

"I used to know a guy" - he was talking about himself.

Misjudging a few time entries - perhaps this was deliberate! It is what helped Cooper make a clean sweep.


Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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