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DB Cooper

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Robert99

******But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent.


Said Robert, speculating.
After 42 years are you still optimistic?

I don't assume there is a conspiracy.

When people use a phrase such as, "But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent" it implies several things, but mostly a conspiracy to hide something.

I am not optimistic about the case ever being "solved," nor is that something I particularly care one way or the other about.

There are a number of parties though who are in the DB Cooper cottage industry who say they want it solved, but in reality don't really because it would mean the end to their little business of speculation of conspiracies books and once a year semi-fame of speaking in front of people.

I am pretty much anything but that.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

*********But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent.


Said Robert, speculating.
After 42 years are you still optimistic?

I don't assume there is a conspiracy.

When people use a phrase such as, "But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent" it implies several things, but mostly a conspiracy to hide something.

I am not optimistic about the case ever being "solved," nor is that something I particularly care one way or the other about.

There are a number of parties though who are in the DB Cooper cottage industry who say they want it solved, but in reality don't really because it would mean the end to their little business of speculation of conspiracies books and once a year semi-fame of speaking in front of people.

I am pretty much anything but that.

Would the word "organization", used in the singular sense, eliminate the "conspiracy" suggestions?

You are correct that the Cooper case will probably never be "solved" in the usual sense of the word. It appears to be to late for that.

You speak words of great truth about the Cooper cottage industry.

Robert99

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"I returned because I finished editing Revenge Story, and I'm nearly done with the burlesque queen's life story ms. I was busy for a couple of days there"

Really?

"The fact is, I have had enough. Yes. After three-and-a-half years here, I'm finally deleting the thread shortcut from our office computers. Do not PM me. If you want to reach me, use my regular email. I am also disabling PM's for good."

Now, as usual you missed the point. I believe I said that you are doing the same by calling people Cooper nuts, but you seem to have a problem with someone using the word psycho. I said twice that they were both equally wrong. I don't need to debate this any longer.

you always have to go to extremes with everything. you flip flop more than anyone I know...

Good Day.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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The jump location document says radar was used, Tom Kaye supposedly saw something that made him use the word SAGE, ckret mentioned radar but specifically said that tapes were not given to the FBI.....

So we are pretty sure that radar data was available and was furnished to NW for plotting a landing area. Would this data normally be provided in tape format or would the USAF had plotted/printed the data on paper and given it to NW that way?


Excerpt from probable jump locations document posted on dz:
Quote


[inline Possible_landing_points.JPG]



per Tom Kaye:
Quote

"TK: Q: Where do you think Cooper landed?

A: The flight was monitored by SAGE radar, the most advanced radar system at the time. The plane’s route was in the archives. Because of that and the fact they went and duplicated the jump scenario in the days following the event, we see no reason he did not jump out over Ariel (Wash.)".


http://www.theolympian.com/2013/08/21/2682310/hunting-db-cooper-seattle-scientist.html



per ckret:
Quote

"As for the radar tapes, I cannot find where the tapes were ever given to the Bureau. All of the analysis was done by the Air Force and they most likely had their own procedures for storage of such tapes that did not include giving them to the FBI."

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104383#3104383


but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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mrshutter45

"I returned because I finished editing Revenge Story, and I'm nearly done with the burlesque queen's life story ms. I was busy for a couple of days there"

Really?

"The fact is, I have had enough. Yes. After three-and-a-half years here, I'm finally deleting the thread shortcut from our office computers. Do not PM me. If you want to reach me, use my regular email. I am also disabling PM's for good."

Now, as usual you missed the point. I believe I said that you are doing the same by calling people Cooper nuts, but you seem to have a problem with someone using the word psycho. I said twice that they were both equally wrong. I don't need to debate this any longer.

you always have to go to extremes with everything. you flip flop more than anyone I know...

Good Day.



One of the two reasons I returned to post was because of two (*coughs politely*) inaccuracies, one of which YOU brought up, not I.

First one was when *someone* claimed back there that the Cooper comic was published in 17 different languages. Prior to 1972, this is not true. I have not checked for anytime AFTER that date, since that would be moot anyway. That question, by the way, has been asked several times by possible collectors of the comic. The person who claimed that could have discovered the truth easily with a simple Google search.

Second, YOU claimed that on Bruce's new site that the word psycho wasn't used in a post to describe some of the current posters at Dropzone. Did you not?

Also not true...and I showed you plainly that it was.

The shortcut to Dropzone HAS been deleted from our office computers, though. I go through Google, and don't post here nearly as often.

Good day to you, too...:)
Side Note: From the document Smokin99 has quoted above, I would say the USAF and the FBI had a pretty good idea where Cooper jumped and when he did it. Looks like the annual celebration in Ariel is being held in the right place.

Quade says in part:

Quote

'There are a number of parties though who are in the DB Cooper cottage industry who say they want it solved, but in reality don't really because it would mean the end to their little business of speculation of conspiracies books and once a year semi-fame of speaking in front of people...'



Come on, let's be fair now. I know I must be one of these 'cottage industry' folks to whom you refer. But here's the reality: Out of the six years I have served with the Auburn Days' committee, Cooper has only been a part of that once, and that was back in 2011 I believe. I don't sell books there, and all the other times I only addressed the audience about the films we were showing, or the OTHER authors who were doing presentations. I also couple this with a community Book Swap that's free...pay for the snacks for hundreds of people...also free...as well as free admission to any of the events.

It's not about me or DB Cooper. It's about the community and the festival. The only time I ever did books there was when I ordered $400 worth of AB titles (about 250 copies at print cost) and then I simply gave them all away, mostly to kids, and there were hardly any Cooper books. I mean sometimes I get embarrassed about the Cooper link, because it was so far off my normal work. A quirk. No...we don't make any money on Cooper, and I certainly don't try very hard. Our *main* income comes from wholesale orders from bookstores and libraries on our other titles that are more of a general-nature (not NW) interest, like Pilot Down, or EV the Anthology, etc. Cooper is a distant third there because the majority of Cooper fans either live in the Northwest or are from here.

My main aim on this whole thing is to interest the public not in the book, (I'm always sending people off to the REAL Cooper site, you know, Sluggo's) but to possibly assist in discovering the truth on who Cooper actually was. I would like to know. I have about as much curiosity on that as anyone else in the Northwest I suppose.


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RobertMBlevins

My budget cannot stretch to afford the F-106, but if I were to buy a jet, I would buy this one because it's old and slow, and I actually saw one flying over Olympia, Washington a few years back. I just stood there with my mouth open. Had to be privately owned.

In the film The Bridges at Toko-Ri, they showed P-80's making the attacks. But I believe that James Michener actually specified Banshees in his book.



You are almost correct Robert. What you saw was a Lockheed T33. Close cousin. There never were any civilian P80s. Boeing used a T33 as a chase plane for a while I believe.

They aren't horribly expensive. Here's a very nice one for well under 100K.

http://www.t-33.us

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377

***My budget cannot stretch to afford the F-106, but if I were to buy a jet, I would buy this one because it's old and slow, and I actually saw one flying over Olympia, Washington a few years back. I just stood there with my mouth open. Had to be privately owned.

In the film The Bridges at Toko-Ri, they showed P-80's making the attacks. But I believe that James Michener actually specified Banshees in his book.



You are almost correct Robert. What you saw was a Lockheed T33. Close cousin. There never were any civilian P80s. Boeing used a T33 as a chase plane for a while I believe.

They aren't horribly expensive. Here's a very nice one for well under 100K.

http://www.t-33.us

377

Oh, okay. T-33. First thing I thought when I saw it going over was about the Toki-Ri film. And how the production company screwed that up because Michener said they were a Banshee squadron. Do you remember what Michener described in the book as how Navy pilots got their nerve back if they were a bit shaky? That was a good one.

Michener. Geez. Talk about a guy who could crank out the big ass novels. Then he comes with this teeny little Korean War story paperback. Considering his other works like Space, Hawaii, and all the others where you needed a backpack to carry one around...he probably whipped out Toko-Ri over a weekend or something. :)
I have other interests that may or may not be educational. For example, I drop by the online game World of Tanks three or four times a week. My name there is SciFiGuy. (Figures...)

When I show up and I'm not on YOUR team...be afraid. Be VERY afraid. (See screenshot picture attached) :)


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Robert, sometimes dealing with you can be like dealing with a minor. where did I say the the word "psycho" was not used?

I specifically pointed out that you were accusing someone of using this word while you use the term Cooper nut. I said the two are equally wrong in my description.

the post you made clearly suggested you were leaving. you are trying to reverse things.

Here is my original quote:
"you call people Cooper nuts, Galen said psychos. who is right and who is wrong?"

Now, how much time do you wish to tie up the thread (as usual) trying to prove something you are clearly wrong on?

Have a nice day....
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Poignant stuff. I can't really directly connect Peterson's moral outrage and anguish to the "grudge" that DBC allegedly professed, but Peterson was forever altered by atrocities he witnessed in thge Mekong Delta.

His book The Idiots Frightful Laughter was part of a personal mission to inform the populace and mobilize opposition to US atrocities and war crimes. Why did he suddenly pull the book off the market?

From his writings you can see that he is an intelligent and articulate person. He also was a versatile and gutsy skydiver with a history of edgy jump exploits (e.g. home made bat wings, night water jumps, skydiving in Saigon). Add USFS smoke jumper experience, Boeing tech documents worker, and according to Saishaw, a very early interest in the mechanics of the 727 rear door and stairs.

FBI ruled him out as DBC based on DNA. If they believed his Nepal alibi why why would they have returned and insisted on a DNA sample? Eyes are blue. Character seems inconsistent with threats of violence, extortion and a large theft.

Sure wish someone well versed on NORJACK could interview him. He avoids me like the plague. Initially he was very grateful for the holiday cheer basket I sent him through Bruce, but has since labeled me as FBI/CIA and doesnt respond to any communication attempts

Quote

Sneak Attacks
By Sheridan "Pete" Peterson

December 17, 2005
Saturday

Hey Mike, promise you won't turn me over to the FBI or Homeland Security. I wouldn't want to end up at Guantanamo. I know all about torture. The CIA operatives told me all about it. Much worse than Abu Graib. I'm too old (79) to be dunked head first in a bucket of buffalo dung. My heart couldn't take it.

You're a bit rough on Kerry and Dean. Even your old man would consider your accusations a big extreme. Being of the elite and not serving in a combat unit how would you know if the GI's engaged in genocide? They all had photos in their wallets to prove it. Those 30% that actually engaged the enemy. That was the macho thing to do. Of course, Americans don't want to know about that, do they? Too disturbing? Truth hurts.

You've got this thing against Democrats. I don't like them either but for a very different reason. They're wimps. They complain about occupying a sovereign nation in order to control the oil and then they all vote to stay there, all but three. Hypocrisy. I guess.

You are probably sincere. How would you know what Kerry did in Vietnam? You weren't there. You could have been, but like Cheney, and Bush and all the rest of the Bushites, you chose not to. If you'd seen a napalm drop on a resettlement camp or village, you may feel differently. Nights have horrible nightmares if you have the sensitivity that I have. (emphasis added)
Unfortunately many of our fellow Americans don't seem to have any sensitivity. That's what Winter Soldier is all about. They thought if the American people knew the truth they'd stop the slaughter of all those millions of Vietnamese people. They were wrong. No one wants to know. Well, almost no one.

Then of course there was the Iran/Costa debacle, wasn't there. Hey, what ever happened to your ballet? That seems like a better vocation than propagandist.

Sheridan "Pete" Peterson
E-mail: eagleeye@sonic.net
Windsor, CA - USA



About: Sheridan "Pete" Peterson is a World War II Marine who served in the Pacific Theatre of Operation. He spent seven years in Vietnam throughout most of the War. As a refugee advisor in the Mekong Delta, he stated he witnessed atrocities on a regular basis.



377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377

***My budget cannot stretch to afford the F-106, but if I were to buy a jet, I would buy this one because it's old and slow, and I actually saw one flying over Olympia, Washington a few years back. I just stood there with my mouth open. Had to be privately owned.

In the film The Bridges at Toko-Ri, they showed P-80's making the attacks. But I believe that James Michener actually specified Banshees in his book.



You are almost correct Robert. What you saw was a Lockheed T33. Close cousin. There never were any civilian P80s. Boeing used a T33 as a chase plane for a while I believe.

They aren't horribly expensive. Here's a very nice one for well under 100K.

http://www.t-33.us

377

What appeared to be two T-33s accompanied the Boeing 787 on its first flight.

Robert99

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Robert99

******My budget cannot stretch to afford the F-106, but if I were to buy a jet, I would buy this one because it's old and slow, and I actually saw one flying over Olympia, Washington a few years back. I just stood there with my mouth open. Had to be privately owned.

In the film The Bridges at Toko-Ri, they showed P-80's making the attacks. But I believe that James Michener actually specified Banshees in his book.



You are almost correct Robert. What you saw was a Lockheed T33. Close cousin. There never were any civilian P80s. Boeing used a T33 as a chase plane for a while I believe.

They aren't horribly expensive. Here's a very nice one for well under 100K.

http://www.t-33.us

377

What appeared to be two T-33s accompanied the Boeing 787 on its first flight.

Robert99

After 377's comments saying a Delta Dart wouldn't have any problems staying above stall speed while following a 727 going about 175 knots, I wondered about those alleged reports saying the Darts had to keep making S-turns to avoid overshooting the 727. Something does not make sense there.

Recent quote by Galen Cook, Cooper Investigator:

Quote

'hey Meyer, my bad wasn’t for name calling. It was because I took on Larry Carr’s professional role in front of everyone. Quade didn’t like that. Ironically, Larry Carr and I had some very productive personal discussions after I was booted from DZ. In fact, I got to spend many hours viewing evidence at the Seattle FO, courtesy of LC, CE and the AIC of the FO. So, it wasn’t all that bad. Georger and I both agreed though, that the DZ had already tanked with at least one poster who is about as obnoxious as an adult can get. That individual is full of self-love and agrandizement, but offers no substance whatsoever to the case. It was a matter of him bringing nothing to the table through personal merit or performance. It was a case of stealing everyone else’s labor and posting it as though is was “his” own. No references cited or acknowledgements by this supposed author. The only thing brought forward by him was the endless chain of repetitive publications about a particular suspect, or, extraneous personal matters that no one gave a hoot about. Most readers could see right through that drivel of bullshit. Anyway, as far as Georger and I are concerned the DZ deserves him and can have him. People have moved on. As Georger has so eloquently stated so many times, he’s just a common house cleaner with a lot of time on his hands and no discernable skills, except the one that he continually reminds everyone with in his internet speeches, “how great I am!”
And now, I’m done discussing this...'



Hmm. This comes from the same guy who claimed his suspect was 'obsessed with road flares' and supported the idea that a woman could see a man standing on the airstairs of a jet from 10,000 feet...with heavy cloud cover at 5,000 feet...at night. :S

Half the posts I've seen over there are just knocks on DZ or particular posters here. I did see one by Ron and Pat Forman saying the wife of a former NWA pilot who was familiar with the Sea/Alaska route thinks Kenny was the guy. Whatever that means. It gets confusing. Posters over there kept asking about Dennis the ticket agent even after someone posted up the guy's 2000 obituary.

Now don't get me wrong. I actually think Bruce's blog is a GOOD thing, and it's a decent place for people to discuss the case. I just think they should lay off knocking on people who post HERE. I saw other posts where they believe public traffic will exceed posts on this thread at Dropzone in short order. Obviously, they haven't much experience with WordPress and how that works.

Example: If Smith has to authorize each and every poster before they can post, the public will generally ignore his blog, although it will be a good discussion site for the people he approves. And I think if they stick to the subject instead of whining about Dropzone, they will accomplish much more.


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Farflung

OK, so I found some information on guys who jacked out of planes AND didn’t spend the rest of their lives bragging about it! I know!

Here’s the deal. While going through flight school you are FORCED to endure training which is both bland and banal. No tests, no grades, just forced attendance which is a couple days over a denominator of two years till you arrive at a squadron as a noob. As much as jump training is the center of the universe for some, it was but a passing bit of flotsam, among a storm of flotsam in the USAF.

How does the average skydiver (code for all) jump from a plane? One ‘G’ straight and level, AND with every intent of jumping at that time. This is defined by ‘some’ as heroic and taking all the God given skills they have. In fact, it is claimed many, many times as a mantra to justify some sort of existence.

Here’s some ‘college boy’ in a situation where he’s forced to “jump”! Oh my, I’ve eaten some seat cushion! Hold me!

For this flight, where he had no intention of jumping, has shit the bed, with frothy stool, produced by the gods of improbability and system redundancy, when they have buttseks. Yep, according to all the charts and graphs, this “should NOT be happening”! Quite a different motif from the 1 G, straight and level, standing at the door, sipping latte environment, so many “self proclaimed” heroes have occupied. I wonder (code for no I don’t) who has actually experienced 2 Gs in their non-delusional lifetimes. Hmmm….

Anyway, some serious shit hits the fan and in some uncontrolled attitude of 4 – 6 Gs, a guy jacks out of his plane and……

He can’t remember.

You see he rotated the arming handles, noticed the canopy depart the airframe, then woke up on the ground. My goodness. That can’t be! He must have used all his skill and training to pull off a feat which others can only lie about. Just a few moments before he was a whuffo and now has talents which those can only brag about, in a deluded cloud of self importance.

What can be said about an F-15 jock, whom bails in a 6 G, flat spin, which was unplanned, and managed to reach the ground in a state of unconsciousness, AND uninjured? He didn’t use 21 and a half years of skill or any training. He only got a couple days of familiarity with the parachute and was a novice, crap your pants, doesn’t stand a chance, will surely die, if not for being college educated, pilot. Wow, sorta puts some perspective on all this crap about skills and whatever, since half of the Air Force ejections where done without being conscious. What does it all mean?

That people who use “all their skills” to do the same are in fact stupid? And this stupidity is backed up by the fact that they seem unaware of the number of sub-conscious ejections, in multiple G environments every year? Can a sleeping or dead person truly do what you claim to be a unique and single most monumental skill in your life? That’s embarrassing.

That’s also the experience an F-15 driver passed along from his mishap. His “training” was irrelevant since the instructors managed to miss any of these attributes. I can back that up as well; the training was minimal, forgettable, and forced without any measure. Not tests; just show up and pray to stay awake. Typical worthless military “make work”.

So Cooper must have been quite skilled since there are hundreds of examples similar to the above, if anyone feels like searching the internet instead of reading these ‘experienced’ comments. At least they are humble.

Yep, no instructor, no training, no single G environment, no planning to jump, and they managed to perform and live. Oh well, don’t let that impede the delusions of grandeur.



I believe this was Farflungs last post before he disappeared.

I sure wish someone could confirm that he is OK.

Sure miss his posts, graphics and humor. I DO NOT miss his pesky reminders that whuffo skyjackers have jumped from jets and survived just fine. He really messed with my "DBC had to be a jumper" mantra. Now that Farf is gone I can go back to MAC SOG HALO land.

Wish we could get Snow, Farf, Orange, Sluggo and all of the old gang back on here. Those were good times.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Quote

What appeared to be two T-33s accompanied the Boeing 787 on its first flight.

Robert99



Right you are Robert. Pretty amazing to see 60 year old jets earning a living today:

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/blogs/drewski2112/archive/2009/12/11/the-boeing-chase-planes.aspx

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Yeah...Farflung was kind of hard on me sometimes, but I did like the guy a lot and still do. He just vanished in a heartbeat.

On a separate note, I see there are some problems going over at the Bruce Smith discussion site. Well...that's not his fault really, but the fault of the blog format he's using as opposed to the forum format. The best is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) editing and posting, which in a Wordpress format is extremely difficult.

And Bruce is not the first with this idea. Twenty months ago I did the same thing, but because I was too busy to moderate it, I made it a 'hidden' page.

Just in case any of you who are posting with Bruce and wonder how this should be set up better than it is, just see this.

Bruce was the first to join...:)
I'm not planning to leave it open long. I only temp-enabled it so you could see a good example. My suggestion to Bruce is to sign up for a free account at Webs.com and hit the 'Forums app' button.


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"Example: If Smith has to authorize each and every poster before they can post, the public will generally ignore his blog, although it will be a good discussion site for the people he approves. And I think if they stick to the subject instead of whining about Dropzone, they will accomplish much more."

Robert, you have been told that the site monitors the first post only. lots of sites do this. after the first post you have no holdings when posting. you always think that it's a loss if the general public can't get involved. there is nothing stopping them. Facebook has a block function, You Tube has the option for approval prior to making a comment. forgive me, but I'm having trouble understanding what you are driving at. the bitterness from you seems to be getting in the way for me to see your point. are you now the news reporter for that site?

B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

"Example: If Smith has to authorize each and every poster before they can post, the public will generally ignore his blog, although it will be a good discussion site for the people he approves. And I think if they stick to the subject instead of whining about Dropzone, they will accomplish much more."

Robert, you have been told that the site monitors the first post only. lots of sites do this. after the first post you have no holdings when posting. you always think that it's a loss if the general public can't get involved. there is nothing stopping them. Facebook has a block function, You Tube has the option for approval prior to making a comment. forgive me, but I'm having trouble understanding what you are driving at. the bitterness from you seems to be getting in the way for me to see your point. are you now the news reporter for that site?

B|



Look, I'm just trying to help the guy. I've said several times now that any contribution he makes is okay with me. But I know that Wordpress thing he has going is unwieldy as hell and doesn't allow WYSIWYG editing. Forums have categories and other important options. A blog is a blog and will just run one post after another until you can't find a thing. He should do something over at Webs, which is very easy to set up. As I said, I did it almost two years ago... And Bruce was the first one to post. I made it a hidden page soon afterward because I didn't have time to mod the thing. But I didn't delete it, I just made it dormant for a while.

On that one, you don't need pre-approval. You can sign in with Facebook, probably other media ID's, or just create your account right there. Then you let people post and edit whatever they wish in whatever category they want. If spammers or abuse are a problem from a user, you simply ban their account. On that one, Webs also keeps track so they can't return with a different ID so easily. This will be my tenth year with Webs. They're great. I even won a t-shirt from them once, although I missed out on the I-pods, dammit. ;)

On Bruce Smith: I don't know where anyone gets the mistaken idea I don't like the guy. He lives less than thirty minutes from my office. I've met him in person, he's fine. The only objection I've ever had is on how he occasionally handles interviews a bit heavy-handed, but that's all.

I've offered to get him a paid gig with his book in Kindle format, not at AB, but with his OWN account. So he can keep ALL the money. I offered him a free speaking slot at the theater, not once, but twice. Now I'm showing him how to set something up the public will actually visit. Blogs do NOT work well for that. Forums work, especially if they are easy to use.


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nobody knows how it will work Robert. it's something Bruce thought of. other things are on the table. it is a blog. it's hard to follow if you reply to a post. pictures are a problem unless you use photobucket for an example. it's not designed to be the answer to Cooper headquarters. problems exist here. I could care less who was banned from here that show up elsewhere. the past is the past. the important thing I would like to do is have a discussion about DB Cooper and not constantly play the one up game. I enjoy the people that are on here and admire many of them. there is also good people on the other site as well. if people decide to take a break from here that is there option. it is possible to co-exist. there is several major networks, newspapers, airlines etc.

I do this as a hobby. I don't have to live up to anything or anyone. I like to research things and enjoy the challenge. I don't have anything to prove or protect. several people have met me in person from this thread and will probably tell you that I'm exactly as I present myself on here. most people know my real name. I'm not hiding behind "shutter". currently the other site has discussions going on. that's where I will spend most of my spare time. if a hot topic pops up here. I will reply here as well. just like changing the channels on the TV.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

nobody knows how it will work Robert. it's something Bruce thought of. other things are on the table. it is a blog. it's hard to follow if you reply to a post. pictures are a problem unless you use photobucket for an example. it's not designed to be the answer to Cooper headquarters. problems exist here. I could care less who was banned from here that show up elsewhere. the past is the past. the important thing I would like to do is have a discussion about DB Cooper and not constantly play the one up game. I enjoy the people that are on here and admire many of them. there is also good people on the other site as well. if people decide to take a break from here that is there option. it is possible to co-exist. there is several major networks, newspapers, airlines etc.

I do this as a hobby. I don't have to live up to anything or anyone. I like to research things and enjoy the challenge. I don't have anything to prove or protect. several people have met me in person from this thread and will probably tell you that I'm exactly as I present myself on here. most people know my real name. I'm not hiding behind "shutter". currently the other site has discussions going on. that's where I will spend most of my spare time. if a hot topic pops up here. I will reply here as well. just like changing the channels on the TV.



Well...I have moved the Cooper forum up to the top near our homepage and left it wide open. I doubt I will actually post there very much. Since I own the actual website, this probably wouldn't be real kosher unless it's REALLY necessary. Anytime you guys want to get off that blog thing, you can try there. Flag anything that is spam and I will remove it. I get an email on flags.

Before you slam on that idea or anything, consider a few things. First, I had that forum established almost two years ago, but made it dormant because I didn't have time to moderate it. So it's not some kind of 'response' to Bruce. It's always been there, just invisible. Second...I have to pay for any additional bandwidth, plus the usual fees to keep off the ads. And if you guys post a lot of videos and pictures, there WILL be fees which I will gladly pay within reason.

Third, you don't need my personal approval to post. Like I said, I probably won't post there much. It's mostly a service to others. For example, if I used it as Kenny Christiansen Springboard, this really looks bad. That's why the categories are neutral and there is nothing by me on KC. I prefer Dropzone for that, or Newsvine. On that particular discussion forum, I have to mainly serve as the mod and very little else, or let's face it...it looks bad.

I would appreciate it if people didn't use it to slam on the host. If it gets out of hand, I will send it back to Dormant Land with a click. After some of the things I read over at the Bruce Blog, I can't believe I'm going to try trusting some of you guys again. But I suppose one more time is okay. Just lay off the moderator who is also the guy paying the bill...:)


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That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. personally I don't have a problem with the first post thingy as long as the site is active. You Tube is always a problem if they hit you with the approval thingy. it takes weeks sometimes for replies.

it's obvious you are bitter over this. I didn't make the rules, nor did I cause them. just because you don't monitor your site doesn't mean everyone else should follow. you say Cooper nut, someone else says psycho. if the site had a block option would that be any different? millions accept it on Facebook. some things are in place to stop problems and don't have anything to do with censorship. if comments begin to disappear, then it's possibly a censorship issue. I don't know what else to say about this issue.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. personally I don't have a problem with the first post thingy as long as the site is active. You Tube is always a problem if they hit you with the approval thingy. it takes weeks sometimes for replies.

it's obvious you are bitter over this. I didn't make the rules, nor did I cause them. just because you don't monitor your site doesn't mean everyone else should follow. you say Cooper nut, someone else says psycho. if the site had a block option would that be any different? millions accept it on Facebook. some things are in place to stop problems and don't have anything to do with censorship. if comments begin to disappear, then it's possibly a censorship issue. I don't know what else to say about this issue.



You have it all wrong. Smith's format obviously isn't working, so I simply re-enabled a real forum for you offsite guys to use, in which I basically have little interest in posting to myself. It would just cause problems. That forum was set up almost two years ago, as I said. Whether anyone uses it, I couldn't care less. I only asked that since I have to pay to keep off ads and for the extra bandwidth, that posters not use it to pick on either the host site or the mod. Have at it if you wish, or not...matters not to me. If there is no interest, I will eventually put it on the hidden pages list again. No big deal one way or another. If I can determine a couple of known people who can be trusted, I will set THEM up as mods and leave the job mostly to them. 377 for example, or Amazon come to mind for now. Maybe even you.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'comments disappearing'. Posters disappearing for good, yes...that is always a possibility...but that happens with ANY website. My attitude on that is exactly what I said above. Lay off the host and the mod and I'm sure anything else is fine. I am not in the habit of modding individual comments unless they are flagged repeatedly. Doesn't matter anyway. Anything you guys flag five times or more vanishes from view. Spammers are the main problem when you enable an open website, not the comments...;)

It would be better if we did not discuss this any further at Dropzone or Quade is going to talk to me about self-promo, when it is anything but. However, he would have a point. So this is my last comment on the subject.


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RobertMBlevins

***"I returned because I finished editing Revenge Story, and I'm nearly done with the burlesque queen's life story ms. I was busy for a couple of days there"

Really?

"The fact is, I have had enough. Yes. After three-and-a-half years here, I'm finally deleting the thread shortcut from our office computers. Do not PM me. If you want to reach me, use my regular email. I am also disabling PM's for good."

Now, as usual you missed the point. I believe I said that you are doing the same by calling people Cooper nuts, but you seem to have a problem with someone using the word psycho. I said twice that they were both equally wrong. I don't need to debate this any longer.

you always have to go to extremes with everything. you flip flop more than anyone I know...

Good Day.



One of the two reasons I returned to post was because of two (*coughs politely*) inaccuracies, one of which YOU brought up, not I.

First one was when *someone* claimed back there that the Cooper comic was published in 17 different languages. Prior to 1972, this is not true. I have not checked for anytime AFTER that date, since that would be moot anyway. That question, by the way, has been asked several times by possible collectors of the comic. The person who claimed that could have discovered the truth easily with a simple Google search.

As I told you, Robert, when you pm'd me on this before the ink was dry on your declaration that you were through with the dropzone. You... are.... wrong. Not everything is obtainable through Google or Wikipedia.

HOWEVER -- You didn't say anything at that point about 17 languages. You asked me to give you ONE, JUST ONE example of the Comic in another language besides French or Belgian (whatever that is) prior to 1972. You said, and I quote "I don't think you can"

I then immediately gave you two examples - Dutch (pub in Netherlands) and Italian. Both prior to or from 1971. I even gave you links to the comics and the companies that published the translated versions. I asked if you wanted more - you did not respond to that.

I also gave you -free of charge - a tutorial on languages of Belgium. You'll note that "Belgian" was not listed anywhere.

Everytime you tried to come back with stuff like "well that's a lot less than 17" or "where's the publisher" - and tried to say it was probably anime, I was able to show you were wrong and school you in the finer art of debate. :)B|

I explained to you then and now that the point was that the Dan Cooper comic was not only available in the French language as has been mythologized and the fact that comic Dan Cooper was Canadian and the comic was available in French does not equate to a Franco-Canadian suspect -- as has been put forth by some.
Along with that was the fact that the comic was not distributed in Canada and was not widely available there so...... if you were wanting to equate the comic with Cooper you would likely be wiser to look across the ocean as it was available in Europe AND in languages other than French. You are so busy trying to one-up people that you miss the whole point of most posts.
But I stand by my post. Once again, you are just wrong. Sorry.

Why on earth you think that you can point out Cooper inaccuracies when your own work has so many is beyond comprehension.

Finally....I asked you to post a link to one document that shows Kenny Christiansen spending large sums of cash, or a picture of him in a toupe? Just one. I don't think you can.
You actually took this to mean that I cared. You don't get irony. That's okay. Lots of people don't.

I finally had to ask you not to PM me anymore.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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The evidence and witness testimony against Christiansen won't just 'go away' because you personally believe it's all a pack of lies. The unedited version, containing the true contact information, emails, etc of all the witnesses is available on request to confirmed media reps and anyone from law enforcement who has an interest in investigating the validity of that evidence. A few have requested and received.

And the Cooper comic was NOT printed in '17 different languages,' no matter how you try to dance around it using 'maybe it was anime' or something. On the comic, I think linking it to a specific suspect would be more helpful.

As far as 'Cooper inaccuracies,' name one person who has investigated the case and gotten every single detail correct. They have not, otherwise the case would have been solved long ago. The basic information on Christiansen, i.e. that he has been pointed to by multiple witnesses as being involved, that he was not happy with NWA, that he knew how to use a chute but had done so in a while, went missing the week of the crime along with his friend Bernie Geestman, etc are all facts. If you don't believe they are facts is a matter of opinion, but it still remains that I created a method of checking on that. The only reason I didn't make all the contact info available to the general public was to protect AB from lawsuits and witnesses from unnecessary harassment.

I don't have to tell you that this is quite possible in Cooperland. As far as updates on Christiansen, that will be done on Saturday, August 10th at the Auburn Avenue Theater, and not before.


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quade


I don't assume there is a conspiracy.

When people use a phrase such as, "But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent" it implies several things, but mostly a conspiracy to hide something.

I am not optimistic about the case ever being "solved," nor is that something I particularly care one way or the other about.

There are a number of parties though who are in the DB Cooper cottage industry who say they want it solved, but in reality don't really because it would mean the end to their little business of speculation of conspiracies books and once a year semi-fame of speaking in front of people.

I am pretty much anything but that.



lol....Or it would mean that we finally have to get a life......

I think your assessment is spot on. I'm conflicted. Part of me wants to know, the other part likes the wondering.

As to it ever being solved...I doubt seriously that it will solved - especially to the satisfaction of all - unless they are holding something back that they are not telling us.
And you have to wonder about that, since the only reason this would ever go to court would be an attorney's dream of the entertainment and publicity to be gained from being surrounded by media on the courthouse steps. This isn't Whitey Bulger stuff. No one's going to prison. But that's just my take on it. I could be wrong.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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smokin99

***
I don't assume there is a conspiracy.

When people use a phrase such as, "But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent" it implies several things, but mostly a conspiracy to hide something.

I am not optimistic about the case ever being "solved," nor is that something I particularly care one way or the other about.

There are a number of parties though who are in the DB Cooper cottage industry who say they want it solved, but in reality don't really because it would mean the end to their little business of speculation of conspiracies books and once a year semi-fame of speaking in front of people.

I am pretty much anything but that.



lol....Or it would mean that we finally have to get a life......

I think your assessment is spot on. I'm conflicted. Part of me wants to know, the other part likes the wondering.

As to it ever being solved...I doubt seriously that it will solved - especially to the satisfaction of all - unless they are holding something back that they are not telling us.
And you have to wonder about that, since the only reason this would ever go to court would be an attorney's dream of the entertainment and publicity to be gained from being surrounded by media on the courthouse steps. This isn't Whitey Bulger stuff. No one's going to prison. But that's just my take on it. I could be wrong.

I've actually researched this question with three different prosecutors, including former ADA from the Decoded show Scott Rolle. All of them had the same opinion.

Due to the John Doe warrant restricting itself to the hijacker, it is extremely unlikely anyone except Cooper himself could face prosecution today. That warrant was an end-around the law as it existed at the time of the hijacking: Five year Statute of Limitations on air piracy. That has since been changed, of course. I imagine the Federal judge who issued that warrant was reluctant to side-step the statute, but somehow was convinced to go ahead and do it anyway. It could be used as a defense in any case brought that involved possible accomplice(s) to the hijacking. One exception is when the hijacker forces the flight to leave the country, which is seen as a 'toll' on the statute because you are basically fleeing at the same time to avoid prosecution. It's complicated. :)377 knows more about this stuff than I do.

Quade says in part:

Quote

'There are a number of parties though who are in the DB Cooper cottage industry who say they want it solved, but in reality don't really because it would mean the end to their little business of speculation of conspiracies books and once a year semi-fame of speaking in front of people...'



I have answered this already:

Quote

'Come on, let's be fair now. I know I must be one of these 'cottage industry' folks to whom you refer. But here's the reality: Out of the six years I have served with the Auburn Days' committee, Cooper has only been a part of that once, and that was back in 2011 I believe. I don't sell books there, and all the other times I only addressed the audience about the films we were showing, or the OTHER authors who were doing presentations. I also couple this with a community Book Swap that's free...pay for the snacks for hundreds of people...also free...as well as free admission to any of the events.

It's not about me or DB Cooper. It's about the community and the festival. The only time I ever did books there was when I ordered $400 worth of AB titles (about 250 copies at print cost) and then I simply gave them all away, mostly to kids, and there were hardly any Cooper books. I mean sometimes I get embarrassed about the Cooper link, because it was so far off my normal work. A quirk. No...we don't make any money on Cooper, and I certainly don't try very hard. Our *main* income comes from wholesale orders from bookstores and libraries on our other titles that are more of a general-nature (not NW) interest, like Pilot Down, or EV the Anthology, etc. Cooper is a distant third there because the majority of Cooper fans either live in the Northwest or are from here.

My main aim on this whole thing is to interest the public not in the book, (I'm always sending people off to the REAL Cooper site, you know, Sluggo's) but to possibly assist in discovering the truth on who Cooper actually was. I would like to know. I have about as much curiosity on that as anyone else in the Northwest I suppose...'




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Quote

And you have to wonder about that, since the only reason this would ever go to court would be an attorney's dream of the entertainment and publicity to be gained from being surrounded by media on the courthouse steps. This isn't Whitey Bulger stuff. No one's going to prison. But that's just my take on it. I could be wrong.



Can you imagine if Vince Bugliosi defended an accused Cooper? Besides being a formidable prosecutor and razor sharp defense lawyer he is a very talented author. Read The Sea Will Tell or Helter Skelter. I'd love to read a Bugliosi book on Norjack. It would be a masterpiece.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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