DB Cooper

[CCharger 0]

Here are other things I'd like to know:

1. Were the bundles found in exactly the same location or just very near each other?

2. Were they neatly stacked or haphazardly?

3. Would the money being contained in the knapsack/reserve chute have kept the money together more in a trip downstream than free?

4. What connection, if any, do the Fazios have to any of the suspects?

[skyjack71 0]

RobertMBlevins

I will admit that it is difficult for me to believe that Jo Weber had not heard of DB Cooper prior to the time she went public, or when Duane was in the hospital.

I had seen news article in 1971 and perhaps in papers after that. I did NOT know Cooper used the name DAN COOPER. I knew about D.B. Cooper, but only due to reading news articles (what little may have appeared in the Ga papers). I did not know D.B. Cooper used the name DAN until I was reading the book by Max Gunther on May 24th 1996. I will swear that in a court of law.

Sports and Crime - was not my interest in those day.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[CCharger 0]

skyjack71

***I will admit that it is difficult for me to believe that Jo Weber had not heard of DB Cooper prior to the time she went public, or when Duane was in the hospital.

I had seen news article in 1971 and perhaps in papers after that. I did NOT know Cooper used the name DAN COOPER. I knew about D.B. Cooper, but only due to reading news articles (what little may have appeared in the Ga papers). I did not know D.B. Cooper used the name DAN until I was reading the book by Max Gunther on May 24th 1996. I will swear that in a court of law.

Sports and Crime - was not my interest in those day.

In fairness to Ms. Weber, I have recently spoken with two well-educated people, one in their 80s and another near 40, and neither one had ever heard the name DB Cooper or knew anything about the story.

[skyjack71 0]

RobertMBlevins

I will admit that it is difficult for me to believe that Jo Weber had not heard of DB Cooper prior to the time she went public, or when Duane was in the hospital.

I KNEW ABOUT COOPER, BUT I DID NOT KNOW HE HAD USED THE NAME DAN COOPER ON THE TICKET! UNTIL MAY 25 1996 when I read a mostly fictional book by Max Gunther called D.B. Cooper - What Really Happened


I did NOT know about Dan Cooper until May of 1996. I knew the name D.B. Cooper and that is ALL! If it was reported in some article - I probably didn't read it. I remember the first article and I am sure there were follow-up article, but which ones the Atlanta News carried - I don't remember. If it was not in the Sunday paper - then I definitely not see it.

I never watched the news on TV. in those yrs. I had kids doing other thing and it DID not revolve around a TV or a daily newspaper. The South did NOT follow the highjacking the way it must have been followed in the N.W.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[testxyz 0]

Quote

Rubber band time keeping technology may still be quite primitive, but it clearly indicates that the money arrived at Tena Bar at a time much closer to the date of the hijacking than the date it was found.

Robert99

The question is.... Would the rubber bands still be recognizable after 9 years in the harsh enviroment of the Tena Bar area?

The coldest month in nearby Vancouver Washinton is January with
avg high of 45 and low of 32, with Dec and Feb not far behind
(almost the same temps)

The hotest month is July having with an average high of 75 and low of 53.

About 6 inches of rain falls in each the coldest months of Dec. Jan. Feb.
adding up to about 18 inches in three months. With probable
frequent sub freezing tempatures.

The money seem to found in sandy soil where the rain could
easily seep to the money and rubber bands. There didn't seem
to be much ground insulation since it is sandy. (I could be wrong)

So repeated freezing and unfreezing appears to happen during at
least three months of the year Dec. Jan. Feb. for 9 years with
constant exposure to water in the rainy northwest for most all
the year.

I can the see the bundles being "entombed" as Kaye suggest
thus being the only thing holding the rubberbands together.

But Ingram was able to pull the bundles from the sand and
notice the bands still on the money. (Still recognizable)
Crumbling to the touch.

Somebody (Blevins?) needs to go down near Tena Bar and bury some
money with the same type of rubberbands. Check to see how it looks
in a year. (if this hasn't been done)

I guess Blevins would know the temps in that area as good as anyone.

Attached is a picture of little Ingram recreating his dig in the snow.

[georger 194]

CCharger

******I will admit that it is difficult for me to believe that Jo Weber had not heard of DB Cooper prior to the time she went public, or when Duane was in the hospital.

I had seen news article in 1971 and perhaps in papers after that. I did NOT know Cooper used the name DAN COOPER. I knew about D.B. Cooper, but only due to reading news articles (what little may have appeared in the Ga papers). I did not know D.B. Cooper used the name DAN until I was reading the book by Max Gunther on May 24th 1996. I will swear that in a court of law.

Sports and Crime - was not my interest in those day.

In fairness to Ms. Weber, I have recently spoken with two well-educated people, one in their 80s and another near 40, and neither one had ever heard the name DB Cooper or knew anything about the story.

Quote

Were they driven by McCoys house at Virgina Beach on the
premise McCoy was DB Cooper?

Do either of them claim their husbands were D.B. Cooper?

• Quote

[mrshutter45 21]

CCharger

******I will admit that it is difficult for me to believe that Jo Weber had not heard of DB Cooper prior to the time she went public, or when Duane was in the hospital.

I had seen news article in 1971 and perhaps in papers after that. I did NOT know Cooper used the name DAN COOPER. I knew about D.B. Cooper, but only due to reading news articles (what little may have appeared in the Ga papers). I did not know D.B. Cooper used the name DAN until I was reading the book by Max Gunther on May 24th 1996. I will swear that in a court of law.

Sports and Crime - was not my interest in those day.

In fairness to Ms. Weber, I have recently spoken with two well-educated people, one in their 80s and another near 40, and neither one had ever heard the name DB Cooper or knew anything about the story.


I 'm sure nobody told them in 1979 that they could be looking at the "the man on the ground" that was involved in the DB Cooper case.....I think it's fair to say that a large majority of people knew something about the crime from 71-1980....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 194]

RobertMBlevins

******Tom Kaye's presentation on the rubber bands is a bit confusing. I think the current entries at the CS website have been slightly edited from the original statements, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Tom's basically saying that since the original rubber bands which were found with the money crumbled when they were touched...and that this condition takes a year or less to occur in nature...that this means the money was buried within a year after the hijacking.

Bands crumbled when touched - Ingram's say.

This condition takes a year or less to occur - WRONG!

That this means the money was buried within a year after the hijacking.


Corallary to the above:

Milk found was in a cake and crumbled when touched.

Milk sours in 2 hours at room temp.

Conclusion: Milk found was 8 hours old -

(Reality: we buried the milk in 1954! )

Point is: there is relationship between "bands crumbled" and
"bands break after one year" !

Maybe you should go to the source, i.e. Kaye with your concerns or questions on the rubber bands and the money. I didn't publish the website, nor did I do the research. He and his team did, although I understand he got a bit miffed at you once.

He does answer his email. You should ask if he minds if you publish his answers, which he usually allows.

Quote

Maybe you should call Jo Weber or Jerry Thomas with your
concerns?

Better yet call Galen Cook with your concerns?

Or Lindsay Lohan ?

I am discussing the Cooper case, not trying to start a media social war.

Hey! Call Geoff Gray. He will listen to ya - why dont you call
Tom Kaye and complain since you're the one with a social issue

[georger 194]

The very fact that one of the bundles of bills had been "torqued" verifies that the rubber band on that bundle was still pliable when it was buried by sand or it would not have been able to keep the bundle together.

Quote

You keep coming back to that.

Torquing and presence of absence of rubber bands may have
nothing to do with the other, or with the bundles staying together. There are many variables that were in play.

It obviously appears to you (right now) the bands were
playing a crucial role keeping the bundles together, providing
a kind of pivot point for torquing?

Fanning out from a pivot point?

I guess what you are saying is: had the money arrived later
after the bands were no longer viable, the money could
not have torqued, or fanned out, in the manner Tom found
on three (or one?) bill?

I understand your position.

My point is there are far better ways to judge time of arrival
and burial vs nonburial... than guessing about rubber bands and
'torquing of the money vs rubber bands or no rubber bands'.

Why would I measure my gas by lifting my car? Versus looking at the gas guage or using a stick?

[skyjack71 0]

[georger state]

Quote

In a word, you aren't missing anthing... because there is nothing there to miss ... it is what it is ... no logical connective tissue or facts between Tom's rubber band tests and 'time of burial'. The two don't automatically connect at all, especially the way Tom
lays this out.

So, don't strain yourself looking for what is not there. Or,
whatever it is Tom has failed to state or deliver.

It literally is what it is: which is a failure to show a causal
connection between rubber band deterioration (as a clock)
and arrival/burial of the money at Tina Bar.

The problem is NOT you. The problem is Tom's science and lack
of explanation.

Now, if Tom had said: 'we analysed fragments of the bands
found on the Ingram money and found 40 neutrinos per mg3
loss compared to new rubber bands, and as we know neutrino
loss in rubber bands has a documented loss rate of .0003 N-loss
per year when rubber bands are left exposed to Uv and O2 at
the surface of the Earth (in Salem WA) ... we thus conclude that
the money and its bands were probably buried in somewhere
near the surface of the Earth exposed to some level of UV and
O2, in about the year -133,333.333 (BC). Those are our
calculations. Our calculations have been peer reviewed. This
places the burial of the Cooper money somewhere in the
Eemian (also Sangamonian, Ipswichian, Mikulin, Valdivia,
Riss-Würm) interglacial period which began about 130,000 years
ago and ended about 3:00pm last Tuesday, by our calendar...'

If Tom had said something like that, we would have something
to work with. Unfortunately all we have is: rubber bands glaze
over and die (break) within one year and that means the Cooper
money was buried early, sometime in ... 133,333.333 (BC)!

You aren't mising anything - there is nothing there to miss.

Pending a further explanation by Tom, there is nothing there
being missed because the causal connectives Tom might or have shown are what is missing.

Tom may have facts he isn't presenting for some reason.
However it is not the reader's job to supply missing facts that
make a well-connected arguement. Maybe whoever wrote Tom's results up for his website is just a poor communicator? I don't
know. But it is not the reader's job to have to guess in matters
like this -

My personal feeling is I don't like having to say these things.
I can only try and describe and relate what I see or fail to see.
Science is not supposed to be a mind reading exercise!

Bravo! Well, done in a simple way -NOW, if someone could get Kaye to reply and a similar manner and state the reason for the confusion, I think it would calm the frenzy down. I tend to believe that Palmer has a better grasp on this than Kaye, because Palmer had the lastest river data. He also had personal accountings as to the weather. Things that do NOT exist now. I do no think Palmer ever thought this would be hashed over and over. If there is an after life I wonder if he is not up there just shaking his head!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

CCharger

Here are other things I'd like to know:

1. Were the bundles found in exactly the same location or just very near each other?

2. Were they neatly stacked or haphazardly?

3. Would the money being contained in the knapsack/reserve chute have kept the money together more in a trip downstream than free?

4. What connection, if any, do the Fazios have to any of the suspects?

All of those discussion are very easy to find - we do NOT need to repeat them. They were made in the last 3 yrs. WE do NOT need to do A LONG LONG rehash of this - that is what the search function is for. Why are U trying to waste our time and make all of the efforts put into the thread unproductive. U know that when things get repeated they get changed.
The references are here in the thread. We need to move on to new thing not have to repeat repeat and then for you to put your own interpretation on what is said. GO LOOK IT UP!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 194]

skyjack71

***Here are other things I'd like to know:

1. Were the bundles found in exactly the same location or just very near each other?

2. Were they neatly stacked or haphazardly?

3. Would the money being contained in the knapsack/reserve chute have kept the money together more in a trip downstream than free?

4. What connection, if any, do the Fazios have to any of the suspects?

All of those discussion are very easy to find - we do NOT need to repeat them. They were made in the last 3 yrs. WE do NOT need to do A LONG LONG rehash of this - that is what the search function is for. Why are U trying to waste our time and make all of the efforts put into the thread unproductive. U know that when things get repeated they get changed.
The references are here in the thread. We need to move on to new thing not have to repeat repeat and then for you to put your own interpretation on what is said. GO LOOK IT UP!

Quote

Jo is saying she wants more time and attention here -

Her case is all that matters and the reason this thread was
founded.

Her final threat always is: the thread will be closed and locked
down, otherwise.

Nice work if you can get it. The ideal place in Life! Center stage.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Tom Kaye's presentation on the rubber bands is a bit confusing. I think the current entries at the CS website have been slightly edited from the original statements, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Tom's basically saying that since the original rubber bands which were found with the money crumbled when they were touched...and that this condition takes a year or less to occur in nature...that this means the money was buried within a year after the hijacking.

Now this statement can sound contradictory, but it really isn't. I think what he's trying to tell people is that if the money fell from the sky and was exposed to water, washdown, etc for a period of nine years before being found, that there is NO way the bills would have stayed together until 1980. They would not have remained in bundle form. The bands would have been completely gone.

Kaye has also stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't believe the bills arrived by natural means anyway, i.e. he leans toward the theory that human hands were involved somehow. I believe this as well, but I have a different reason. My reason is the very fact that more than one bundle was found at the same location without anything else being found. If you believe Kaye that the bills showed no evidence of previously being soaked in a river, this narrows the possibilities. Dropped from sky, or purposely buried.

But dropped from sky presents problems. First, Tina Bar is miles off the *recognized* north-south route of the jet and no one yet has been able to prove that Flight 305 was WEST of the Interstate as it passed by Tina Bar. Now if in the future, it is proven that 305 DID go over Tina Bar, then you could consider that as a clue. But no matter what Robert99 says, he still hasn't proven that it did. Admittedly, he's still working on that possibility.

If it is later proven that Flight 305 definitely did NOT pass over or near Tina Bar, and if you believe Kaye's research where he says the bills were not in the river...then this leaves human intervention. It's been suggested that the hijacker may have buried the bills himself later, as a red herring to make the FBI think he went into the Columbia and was killed. Why would he pick Tina Bar? Maybe the access there was private enough. Maybe he didn't know exactly where to do it because he didn't know the exact position of the aircraft when he jumped.

In the lack of any evidence after 40 plus years showing that Cooper was killed, it is hard not to lean toward the idea that he did. This would be enhanced if it's proven later that the flight WAS miles from Tina Bar.

Remember: If Cooper pancaked into the Columbia farther upriver...what are the chances that at least three bundles ended up in the same exact spot somewhere else downriver? Not good. Even more, Kaye's research seems to show the bills were never in the river in the first place.

Blevins, Your ability to misquote and make half-assed conclusions from those misquotes is without equal.

Tom Kaye said that his tests indicated that the rubber bands, whether in water or buried in sand, would deteriorate and break within one year. That is the exact condition in which the bills were found.

You must have missed the information that the bills were buried in sand. For starters, that might explain how the bills were still found together in 1980 even if the bands broke prior to the end of 1972.

Just exactly where does Tom Kaye say the bills were never in the river or soaked by the river water? He doesn't. Kaye does completely rule out the Washougal washdown theory. And I don't recall seeing any statement from Kaye that could be used to support a "Cooper planted the money theory", though he did state that the idea of Cooper dying in the jump should be re-examined.

In the matter of the flight path, it appears that the FBI agents in Seattle that Tom and his team talked to are not certain who prepared that map or the source of the information used in preparing the map. Consequently, your support for that map being accurate is not based on fact, but your own need for Cooper to survive the jump and land a long way from Tena Bar in order to not undercut your KC theory.

Robert99

[CCharger 0]

skyjack71

***Here are other things I'd like to know:

1. Were the bundles found in exactly the same location or just very near each other?

2. Were they neatly stacked or haphazardly?

3. Would the money being contained in the knapsack/reserve chute have kept the money together more in a trip downstream than free?

4. What connection, if any, do the Fazios have to any of the suspects?

All of those discussion are very easy to find - we do NOT need to repeat them. They were made in the last 3 yrs. WE do NOT need to do A LONG LONG rehash of this - that is what the search function is for. Why are U trying to waste our time and make all of the efforts put into the thread unproductive. U know that when things get repeated they get changed.
The references are here in the thread. We need to move on to new thing not have to repeat repeat and then for you to put your own interpretation on what is said. GO LOOK IT UP!

It seems you misunderstood me. I was not requesting or demanding that someone come to me with the answers. I was stating rhetorically that I want to know the answers.

[skyjack71 0]

georger

Jo is saying she wants more time and attention here -

Her case is all that matters and the reason this thread was
founded.

Her final threat always is: the thread will be closed and locked
down, otherwise.

Nice work if you can get it. The ideal place in Life! Center stage.

My My Georger, No reason for you to make the above statement. I do not threaten - I do caution you guys when I see behaviours going on that will shut us down. All of this petty arguing & attacking lately will not be tolerated much long.

New posters need to at least review the thread by subject matter so they do NOT sound like someone doing a high school - paper or a law student on assignment....or a cheap ass journalist. Time usually weeds them out.

I was unable to figure out MrShutters interest and then he evolve or got caught up - realizing he could not contribute without knowledge of the things that had been presented. Those who expect to only TAKE and not Contribute cannot hold their own in the thread. They create chaos and those who have been reading get bored with the repetitive nature of those on a fishing expedition.

Questions repeated over and over will NOT keep this thread above water and the childish banters need to go! We are here only by the Grace of Quade after the other thread got shot down - with exactly what is starting to happen here.

We are in HISTORY & TRIVIA - not in speakers corner! We are in this category because I asked Quade for it to be here. IF you want them to move it to Speakers corner - then Georger YOU will NEVER get a word in EDGEWISE nor will any advancement ever be made on any possible subject or new lead or new evidence.

1.This is the only VOICE Cooper HAS!
2.This is the only media Source that can COLLECT & PRESENT subjects and research objectivily.
3.This is the only place any advancements in the case will be made. The FBI is not going to spend time and resources on this unless someone can put their suspect ON THE PLANE!

The FBI told me:
1. You can put him in a Chute!
2. You can put him in the area!

BUT, you have to put him on the plane and that is what any of you will have to do - put your subject on the plane. After 42 yrs there is nothing. What was left - I discarded because I didn't know what it was or what it meant. I told Curtis I was sending some pictures - which I did. When I told him about the Mouse he actually seemed amused. I have often wondered what he thought about the mouse he later received. It was never acknowledged.

If anyone of you actually talk to ENG as is claimed often - ask him about Jo's mouse! If he does not chuckle then you are NOT talking to Curtis Eng.
I thought maybe the Mouse could put Weber on the plane. Mouse belonged to a gambling man who jumped out of planes.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[CCharger 0]

skyjack71

***
Jo is saying she wants more time and attention here -

Her case is all that matters and the reason this thread was
founded.

Her final threat always is: the thread will be closed and locked
down, otherwise.

Nice work if you can get it. The ideal place in Life! Center stage.

2.This is the only media Source that can COLLECT & PRESENT subjects and research objectivily..

How can this possibly be reality when no one is allowed to present differing opinions from your own? Or when your own research is FAR from objective?

How can you possibly expect to solve this case on this site when any new people or new ideas are immediately attacked and devoured by you? Unless perhaps you don't really want it solved at all...

[CCharger 0]

What about the possibility of the bundles being tightly packed together in the reserve chute as they traveled up stream?

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Blevins, Your ability to misquote and make half-assed conclusions from those misquotes is without equal.

Tom Kaye said that his tests indicated that the rubber bands, whether in water or buried in sand, would deteriorate and break within one year. That is the exact condition in which the bills were found.

You must have missed the information that the bills were buried in sand. For starters, that might explain how the bills were still found together in 1980 even if the bands broke prior to the end of 1972.

Just exactly where does Tom Kaye say the bills were never in the river or soaked by the river water? He doesn't. Kaye does completely rule out the Washougal washdown theory. And I don't recall seeing any statement from Kaye that could be used to support a "Cooper planted the money theory", though he did state that the idea of Cooper dying in the jump should be re-examined.

In the matter of the flight path, it appears that the FBI agents in Seattle that Tom and his team talked to are not certain who prepared that map or the source of the information used in preparing the map. Consequently, your support for that map being accurate is not based on fact, but your own need for Cooper to survive the jump and land a long way from Tena Bar in order to not undercut your KC theory...'

Hmm. Lot of points there to address. Of course I know the bills were buried in sand. Kaye's point was he doesn't think they washed up there naturally, or were dredged to the spot. We're not discussing KC, by the way. ANYONE who turns out to be the hijacker could have planted those bills. Your theory explains the presence of the money by saying Cooper crash-landed at or near Tina Bar. But you have no body, no briefcase, no chutes, no money bag or any of the remainder of the ransom...and the north-south route of the jet was miles east of Tina Bar...unless you can prove otherwise.

Not knowing the source of the map doesn't necessarily make it useless or wrong. The FBI used it to conduct a pretty big search. Some info is known. Paul Soderlind and his NWA team undoubtably had a hand in it. You should contact members of his family and ask them. Some are at Facebook. The only problem I've ever seen with the map are possible gaps and lags in the transcript it is associated with, meaning maybe Cooper jumped further south than it was first suspected. But I don't see any evidence that Flight 305 took a starboard turn over Tina Bar on its way to Portland.

Where does Kaye say he doesn't think the bills were water-soaked? Well, here's couple of quotes for you:

From Skyjack, Page 255:

***Analyzing the evidence, he (Kaye) was able to make one conclusion. Cooper did survive the jump, he thinks. Under the microscope, Tom noticed the money had been bound for so long, the ink of serial numbers on th e bills had bled into each other. When he looked at them further, he found that they lined up precisely behind each other in the stack.

Tom did not expect this. When he used his fishing rod to cast a packet of bills into the Columbia River, what happened was clear: The bills fanned out in the water, like the fins of an exotic fish. So if the Cooper bills had floated loosely in the water, when they dried and stuck together, the serial numbers would not be in perfect alignment. They would be slightly off.

Which means what exactly?
"The money did not float down the river," Tom says.
"So how did it get to Tina Bar?"
"Nonnatural means," he says.
Which means?
"People...If there's one story the money tells us, it's that."

Just on a different note, I got to speak with retired FBI agent Furhman, the guy who interviewed the witnesses in Seattle. I asked him: When they found the money, did anyone ever think the idea of finding several bundles of the ransom in the same exact spot...miles from the flight path...was significant. (rather than some loose bills, or one random packet, which might be easier to explain) He said no one thought of that angle.

We've been down this road before, you know. These money bundles did not have legs, nor did they have little strings holding them together. And you have to get them somehow to the place where they were found TOGETHER..and explain further how they managed to do that if they weren't attached. If they weren't water-soaked, and they didn't float it from the river, then how do you explain that? Tom Kaye dances around this point, but it's obvious he favors some kind of human intervention. I think you should ask him to expand on his comments.

Now Kaye says the condition of the bands relegates the placement or arrival somehow of the money to within one year or so AFTER the hijacking. But what if the money did not see the light of day for several years before it actually arrived? Kaye's test also show that rubber bands kept for an extended period of time in a drawer do NOT degrade. If the ransom money was kept in a box, a container, even a good bag, those bands might have lasted for years.

This is one point where I think Kaye might be off. I think if it was a plant, that it was not done that soon after the hijacking. If I were to guess, I would say it was done sometime after the FBI managed to get around the Statute of Limitations in 1976. You have to believe the hijacker was definitely watching the calendar. Five years, and you are home free if they don't identify you for a warrant. That was the law then.

You see, for Kaye's conclusion to work, you have to prove that the bills got to their present condition not in a period of one year...but roughly between 1972 and 1980. Eight years of exposure. And even though US currency is made of good paper, it rains a lot in Washington State and things buried in the ground here rot much more quickly than say...Arizona. This is totally unscientific, but I have doubts the actual paper money could have lasted so long under a few inches of sand for so many years. Eight years of rain in the Evergreen State. Eight winters, eight springs, and the occasional flood. My belief is that they would have become a mushy mess by that time, or completely biodegraded. And if you believe they arrived there via a flood, then you still come back to How Did At Least Three Bundles Stay Together for The Long Trip? The amount found was roughly $5,800 - about three bundles originally.

If this turned out to be true, then the possibility that Cooper survived the jump and planted the money later becomes exponentially more likely. That's an opinion, of course.

Blevins, If you want to know what Tom Kaye thinks and has posted on his web page, then that web page would be a good place to visit. You obviously have not done a serious reading of what Tom Kaye has written.

Apparently, you feel free to dismiss an actual researcher's work because a writer has put out a book that is more sympathetic to your own theories. Would you know an genuine fact if it bit you in the butt?

Until you actually read Tom Kaye's research and his conclusions that are discussed on his web page, you don't know what he has said.

Despite your denials, this thread is all about KC and your book as far as you are concerned.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

Jo Stated:

2.This is the only media Source that can COLLECT & PRESENT subjects and research objectivily..

===================
Charger Replied:

How can this possibly be reality when no one is allowed to present differing opinions from your own? Or when your own research is FAR from objective?

How can you possibly expect to solve this case on this site when any new people or new ideas are immediately attacked and devoured by you? Unless perhaps you don't really want it solved at all...
======================

Jo States:

There are bottom feeders and when you do NOT do your own research and do not do anything except feed off the bottom - that is NOT productive.

You have so far NOT made one productive post. You ask questions you should already know if you have studied ALL of the suspects and explored the case of Cooper provided by this thread and other conduits....such as the FBI and old newspaper reports and other sites.

You are only fishing and you have not made ONE solid statement regarding the crime...not one.

I will not engage this conversation again. I just want the other posters to be aware of what you are setting them up for. Probably another Ha Ha Ha by D.B. Cooper.

That is actually a book!

So how interested have you REALLY been in this subject? How much research have you done on the subject? How long have you been researching the subject? Why did you state you spoke with Curtis Eng and made it sound as though he told you what drug was used.

Per your posts you have researched nothing - you consider researching the subject a waste of your time....

We have those genuinely interest in the subject - come to the forum for information and they look at where we have been and where we are now. Those are individuals genuinely interest in trying to solve the case. You ask questions in a subjective manner - one that leads with false information....and I made a point to bring this to your attention and to the posters.

Now it is up to them if they wish to continue to engage and you need to stop starting your posts by saying things like....We KNOW Cooper used a specific drug - when there has been NO indications of that. You then create more myths.

That is MY gripe with you - your creating false statements and making them sound like facts in the case when you do not present the source...such as the drug of choice. YOU made the decision about the drug - and YOU do NOT know what the Drug was.

I do NOT for one moment believe Curtis Eng told you that as indicated in your post!

Other posters have not been that brazen or that assertive in stating an unknown as fact. That is HOW writers approach thing - they start by leading the information source.

Surely everyone on this thread is not naive enough to go along with those kind of assertions.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[testxyz 0]

I got this FBI Picture off Tom Kaye's website. It shows the aft section of Cooper's plane including where Cooper sat, the lavatory, the aft stairs lowered and what appears to be......... the Interphone.

Can someone verify that is the Interphone hanging on the wall in the red circle?

Photo attached....

[CCharger 0]

skyjack71

Jo Stated:

2.This is the only media Source that can COLLECT & PRESENT subjects and research objectivily..

===================
Charger Replied:

How can this possibly be reality when no one is allowed to present differing opinions from your own? Or when your own research is FAR from objective?

How can you possibly expect to solve this case on this site when any new people or new ideas are immediately attacked and devoured by you? Unless perhaps you don't really want it solved at all...
======================

Jo States:

There are bottom feeders and when you do NOT do your own research and do not do anything except feed off the bottom - that is NOT productive.

You have so far NOT made one productive post. You ask questions you should already know if you have studied ALL of the suspects and explored the case of Cooper provided by this thread and other conduits....such as the FBI and old newspaper reports and other sites.

You are only fishing and you have not made ONE solid statement regarding the crime...not one.

I will not engage this conversation again. I just want the other posters to be aware of what you are setting them up for. Probably another Ha Ha Ha by D.B. Cooper.

That is actually a book!

So how interested have you REALLY been in this subject? How much research have you done on the subject? How long have you been researching the subject? Why did you state you spoke with Curtis Eng and made it sound as though he told you what drug was used.

Per your posts you have researched nothing - you consider researching the subject a waste of your time....

We have those genuinely interest in the subject - come to the forum for information and they look at where we have been and where we are now. Those are individuals genuinely interest in trying to solve the case. You ask questions in a subjective manner - one that leads with false information....and I made a point to bring this to your attention and to the posters.

Now it is up to them if they wish to continue to engage and you need to stop starting your posts by saying things like....We KNOW Cooper used a specific drug - when there has been NO indications of that. You then create more myths.

That is MY gripe with you - your creating false statements and making them sound like facts in the case when you do not present the source...such as the drug of choice. YOU made the decision about the drug - and YOU do NOT know what the Drug was.

I do NOT for one moment believe Curtis Eng told you that as indicated in your post!

Other posters have not been that brazen or that assertive in stating an unknown as fact. That is HOW writers approach thing - they start by leading the information source.

Surely everyone on this thread is not naive enough to go along with those kind of assertions.

First, you don't actually think that the only people doing serious research on this case post on this board do you? There are dozens and dozens of serious, intelligent Coop researchers. You aren't the only one. Just because I am new to this board doesn't mean I am new to the subject.

Second, you don't know one thing about me. You don't know how much I know about Coop, who I associate with, or even where I am from. How do you know I have talked to Eng? Can you quote where I said that? For that matter, are you sure Eng is the only agent assigned to the case? How do you know the FBI is the only agency investigating his? You assume a great deal about me and my motives. We all know what happens when you assue.

Third, you are consistently inconsistent. First, you attack me about me suggesting Coop used bennies, then complain I have offered no new ideas or anything "productive". Clearly, anything that supports your view that Duane was Coop is "productive", right? Anything else is a threat to you, it appears. With you, I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. That's fine. I don't need validation from you, the self crowned Grand Poobah of All Things Coop.

I am really fatigued arguing with you. I am here to be part of the Coop conversation, not be in pissing contests. Let it go.

[mrshutter45 21]

can you supply a picture of the countetop with hinge holes in it???

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

testxyz

I got this FBI Picture off Tom Kaye's website. It shows the aft section of Cooper's plane including where Cooper sat, the lavatory, the aft stairs lowered and what appears to be......... the Interphone.

Can someone verify that is the Interphone hanging on the wall in the red circle?

Photo attached....

I do not think that is a picture of the actual plane - because there should be a 1/2 wheel on the door and I don't seen the bump seat or the Galley. I would guess that is because the Aft door is opened in that picture as you stated.

I never saw one with the Aft stair door already opened...other than the assimilation with the entire thing open. (I do NOT have a clue what I am looking at). I do know I have seen pics with the aft door closed and it had a wheel on it. Duane showed one to me in 1988 on our trip to the Islands...he even told me how it worked. I also saw one on a fight I made Ohio.

Since no one thinks he was Cooper - maybe he had a job cleaning the darn things. The wife and Duane told me they both worked for a service in CA. for a short period of time.

This caused another memory: When Duane and I went to Denver for the Holidays in 1979 - he went to a place we could see the airport and the told me about every plane out there. This is when he told me they worked for a service involved with the planes. The wife of the day verified this...yrs and yrs later.
Duane identified ever plane he could see.

So in 1979 Duane was setting me up and it culminated with a confession in 1995. That is pretty hard to swallow!

This was when we met up with old friends of his for a couple of day. Harry or Harrison - the man with only one leg. His right leg had been amputated....he told me from cancer.

He drove a yellow toro - a car without the hump in the middle because of his leg. They knew each other for the past and talked about Vegas. This man had been chauffer for Howard Huge at one time.

I know this is off subject, but when a post triggers a memory I need to spit it out right then or I will forget it. I have told this story before.

The man lived in South Colorado near Castle Rock (hope I pulled the name out of my head correctly). I know that on one outing we drove down to that area and there was field of a white flowers which turns out I am VERY allergic to...the allergy spoiled that trip.

At one time I knew the name of the flower - it is in the cactus family. They grow in FL and I have to be careful not to go near them when they are blooming.

At that time he mentioned knowing someone who lived in the area and I believe it was the indivdual we ended up meeting in Denver on that holiday.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

testxyz

I got this FBI Picture off Tom Kaye's website. It shows the aft section of Cooper's plane including where Cooper sat, the lavatory, the aft stairs lowered and what appears to be......... the Interphone.

Can someone verify that is the Interphone hanging on the wall in the red circle?

Photo attached....

If that is an Interphone, it would probably have a coiled cord hanging down from it. And I don't see one.

Basically, the space between the wall that is just forward (toward the camera) of the "object" and the last row of seats on the right side of the picture (which are directly opposite the last row of seats on the left side of the picture) is a food preparation area (galley) used by the flight attendants.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

"I do not think that is a picture of the actual plane - because there should be a 1/2 wheel on the door and I don't seen the bump seat or the Galley. I would guess that is because the Aft door is opened in that picture as you stated."

Jo, that is the plane. you can see the numbers on the back. those are the stairs in the back. the part that is connected to the plane. this is also the part where you see the guys sliding down and out of the plane in the video. metal was put over the first couple steps leading out of the plane. the actual stairs were removed for that exercise.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI