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DB Cooper

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Well, folks, here is my view of what goes on here. Chapter 21 in my current draft.

The Hunt, Chapter 21 The DZ, 1. 25. 13


The Drop Zone, or more simply “the DZ,” is perhaps the best known online site for discussion on the DB Cooper case. More precisely, http://www.dropzone.com/ is an all-inclusive parachuting web site that hosts dozens of chat rooms, and the salon for DB Cooper is only one of many.

Yet, the Cooper “forum,” as it is called in DZ parlance, is the most popular place on the Internet to exchange opinions, theories, and information on Norjak. I’ve learned lots on the DZ, and grew as a journalist by posting much of my early writings on Cooper. As harsh as some of the feedback has been, it has also been critical to my understanding the case.

In addition, I learned how the case has affected people psychologically, and I’ve uncovered a dynamic that I call the Cooper Vortex – the pull of self-righteous attitudes that make some smart people do very foolish things.

This dimension of the DZ renders it like a “Biker Bar” in cyber space. It can be a vicious and cruel place – it’s certainly not for the timid or thin-skinned. The insults can be venomous and constant. At the very least, the disagreements can be pointed as treasured beliefs, suspects or hypotheses are fiercely defended or attacked. As a result, I have learned to be squeaky clean in my presentation of Cooper findings. Further, my note-taking during interviews has improved and my critical thinking has sharpened. Lazy or sloppy investigators get hammered on the DZ, and they don’t stick around too long.

With all the name-calling, put-downs and trash talking that arise, the DZ requires the services of a moderator, a fellow named “Quade.” He issues admonishments to the worst perpetrators of bad behavior; some take the hint and quiet themselves. Others don’t, and get banned from any further postings.

Yet, the DZ can also be as warm as the neighborhood tavern featured in the TV sitcom, “Friends.” At times, I have luxuriated on the DZ, reading someone’s post about a charming Cooper World encounter, or waft off on a tangential musing about women, the wilderness, or some quirky factoid that makes the DZ feel down-right cozy and comfortable.

Relationships have formed at the DZ, and I cherish some of mine. Others are simply endured.

Thousands of people from around the world read the DZ daily, with about a dozen individuals posting frequently. Many more simply come and go after delivering a pet theory or asking a burning question. Since its inception in 2007, there are about 250,000 commentaries that have accumulated on the 1,000-plus pages of text.

Most of what Cooper material I publish on my own site, the Mountain News-WA, I link at the DZ and I see a sizeable spike of readership on my website that I attribute to DZ aficionados drifting over for more Norjak news.

Perhaps the most noted contributor to the DZ has been FBI agent Larry Carr. Using the moniker “Ckret,” Carr posted regularly on the DZ throughout the early part of his tenure as Cooper case agent, (2007-2009), and his commentaries have given a welcomed confirmation to many details of the case. In fact, I have validated more information on Cooper from Carr’s posting on the DZ than I have from talking to Carr directly - or any other FBI agent. As a result, the DropZone has been a vital place of informational exchange for me, and as nasty as some people are, I take a deep breath and persevere so that I don’t miss the goodies.

Since the DZ is so personality-driven, I think it may be useful to illumine the many players of the DZ.


Besides Larry Carr, Jo Weber is arguably the most dynamic figure on the DZ. She is certainly the most prolific poster, championing the Cooper-ship of her deceased husband, Duane Weber. Jo posts thousands of words every day, and has something to say on just about every aspect of Norjak. One of the skills I have learned by reading the DZ is how to skim Jo’s postings while still gleaning enough information to get a general sense of what she is up to.

Some visitors to the DZ easily dismiss Jo as a crank, but she is clearly a solid researcher. She was the first to discover where Tina Mucklow resides, and she continues to have some kind of relationship with Jane Mucklow Dormuth, as evidence by her lengthy phone calls to her.

Jo also has an appreciation of the depth and breath of issues that might be affecting the Cooper investigation, such as the role that MKULTRA may have played, or covert military operations in Southeast Asia. When I first began corresponding with Jo she talked extensively to me about JM WAVE, the largest covert operations base on US soil run by the CIA. Prior, I had never heard of JM WAVE, and still have only a foggy idea of what goes on there.


One of those who has long-suffered the rants of Jo is Georger. Georger is a smart guy who often gets cranky himself. In fact, Georger is a professor at a mid-western university and has unusual ties to Norjak – both familial and professional. Occasionally, Georger makes reference to his FBI connections, which seem to be substantive if not fully revealed in their exact nature.

Georger was Larry Carr’s first choice to head the Citizens’ Sleuth Team, which Georger declined. In turn, Georger recommended that Carr contact a paleontologist named Tom Kaye, who is renown for digging up T-Rex bones in the Inter-Mountain west of the United States. Tom posts occasionally at the DZ, usually in response to a CST flap. Kaye’s work with Carr on the CST has been very productive and original, even if they cooked-up the Propeller Theory together (see Titanium and the CST, and The Money Find chapters).

Galen Cook has a wonderful description of Georger: “He likes to cast himself as a ‘backdoor observer’ of the case, but he knows far more than he leads others to believe. And his knowledge of the case is vast. Yet, he remains a silent player in the investigation and prefers, it seems, to engage others in the boisterous ‘DropZone’ site, where he can be as nasty as he is allowed to be.”


Perhaps the King of Attitude is Snowmman, who has been banned for life starting in 2011. Certainly Snow has been one of the smartest guys at the DZ, and is the undisputed expert on all things cyber. Snow summed-up his knowledge this way: “You have to remember, Bruce, I read the entire Internet every night.”

Somedays it seems as if Snowmman has.

Snowmman has also been an invaluable aid to me in discovering the contact information on many individuals connected to the case. Without Snow, my research on Sheridan Peterson, Ted Braden, Dorwin Schreuder and many others would be greatly reduced or non-existent.


Jerry Thomas is one of those DZ contributors who comes and goes, which isn’t a problem for those of us who appreciate proper grammar and precise spelling. In his defense, JT says he hasn’t figured out how to use his spell checker. (That’s what he says, honestly!?) Regardless, Jerry is one of the leading antagonists in the war of words with Jo Weber. In addition, Jerry is a long-time student of the case and is a beloved side-kick to Ralph Himmelsbach. JT also enjoys an elevated relationship with the FBI and has had access to Curtis Eng and others.

JT also served on the CST, and is featured in Geoffrey Gray’s book, Skyjack- The Hunt for DB Cooper.


Over the past year or two, one of the voices heard most often at the DZ is that of author Robert Blevins. Robert champions Kenny Christiansen as Cooper, which is the sole focus of his book, Into the Blast - The True Story of DB Cooper. Through his pronouncements on the DZ, Robert has also found a way to infuriate just about everyone at the forum and in the larger Norjak investigation. Nevertheless, he regularly attends the Cooper Daze festival in Ariel, asking questions of attendees and making a video record of the Cooper phenomena.


377. The regal voice of sanity at the DZ is an attorney from the Bay Area who sports the moniker, “377,” which is the signage for his favorite Boeing aircraft. 377 is an avid sky diver and a dogged Norjak researcher. His findings on the use of the 727 as a jump platform is singular, as is his analysis of NB 8 parachutes and the optimum method of exiting a 727 at 200 mph.

377 is also a buddy of Snowmman, and together they form a solid team of Cooper sleuths. Thank Gawd at least one of them is a gentleman.


Smokin99 is another voice of reason. She is also a solid researcher and has helped me locate individuals via back-door channels.


Another woman posting on the DZ is Amazon. She is an exceptionally accomplished skydiver and offers fact-based commentaries on Cooper’s jump. Amazon has no patience whatsoever with the forum’s fools, and I think she would smile to know that I call her, privately, One Tough Broad.


Robert99, McShutter, Farflung, Hangdiver, SafecrackingPlF, and Meyer Louie and many others have all been informative and reasonable. Sadly, Meyer lost his cool one night and got kicked-out in 2012. Same, too, for Galen Cook back in 2009.

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Ahem....:ph34r::ph34r:

Quote

The Drop Zone, or more simply “the DZ,” is perhaps the best known online site for discussion on the DB Cooper case. More precisely, http://www.dropzone.com/ is an all-inclusive parachuting web site that hosts dozens of chat rooms, and the salon for DB Cooper is only one of many.




This would be the DB Cooper thread in the Skydiving History & Trivia Forum not a "chat room" . We had one of those here and it was called "The Pub" but now it seems to be perennially broken. It was a fun place till it seemed like the fun went out of it when a Pub regular, "GirlFalldown" died in a base jump accident off the bridge over the Snake River in Idaho. Shannon is missed by many of us who knew her.[:/][:/]

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Jo wrote

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377, Georger and some of you all self important individuals who have forced my hand. Deception at the utmost!

(emphasis added)

Nobody ever forces your hand Jo. You will riddle and tease until those KY cows come home.

377



Moo too! :D Its the radios done us in.
She thinks we control hurricanes and now has the
evidence? Im only guessing. Popcorn ready.

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R99 stated:

Of the "suspects" being put forward by various "investigators" for commerical or egostistical reasons, there is no realistic chance in hell that any of them could be D.B. Cooper. While there are additional reasons as well, the main reason is that they were all still breathing on Thanksgiving Day in 1971.

Jo Replies:

This is just the kind of statement I expected from you. WHY do you "think" Cooper died? There is NO way you could know that unless you was his man on the ground!

Bail - not hardly. Lunch maybe!

I will stand by the fact you deliberately misrepresent postings or your comprehension level is below normal.

I nicely explained I post live and do not compose my posts and if I see an error - I have to go back to correct it. I do this all of the time - most individuals know not to rapid fire as I do NOT compose in word but, live.

Are you aware that I loose the post about 8 times every 10 minutes and when it starts I post and then go back and fix the post.

U are aware I do NOT have anything to CLEAN up. I may tease once in a while but I never ever lie and what I say most people can take to the bank.

Just to inform you and others - that we DO have a new moderator. Perhap our old one is busy writing a movie script or writing his own book about the posters of this thread! YOU THINK!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Georger anything science or Cooper Scoopers come up with is too late. This case is and will be officially closed very soon.

When is the opening of the Cooper display at that museum?
And where is that museum located - LONGVIEW?




Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013 by Jo Weber ? Hilarious!! :D:D:D

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Shocked? He wrote a book.

Yes, Geoffrey probably has a copy of the Farrell work. Geoff showed parts of it, at least photos, in a power point presentation at the Portland Symposium. Geoff has plenty of stuff, such as transcripts on the parachutes - remember that I stole stuff from him that he had stolen from the FBI via a link posted here on the DZ! Geoff also had copies of the hand-written notes taken in the cockpit and gave copies of his copies to others, and now I have copies of copies of ciopies.



Geoff may have a valuable property.

Is he worth it!?

The Smithsonian gets fucked again, by some
"reporter", who with a little training could be giving the
local weather report each night on KPEE-TV !

What has this world come to!

He wrote a 'book'?

Monks write books!

Shadows and dust.

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Besides Larry Carr, Jo Weber is arguably the most dynamic figure on the DZ. She is certainly the most prolific poster, championing the Cooper-ship of her deceased husband, Duane Weber. Jo posts thousands of words every day, and has something to say on just about every aspect of Norjak. One of the skills I have learned by reading the DZ is how to skim Jo’s postings while still gleaning enough information to get a general sense of what she is up to.

Some visitors to the DZ easily dismiss Jo as a crank, but she is clearly a solid researcher. She was the first to discover where Tina Mucklow resides, and she continues to have some kind of relationship with Jane Mucklow Dormuth, as evidence by her lengthy phone calls to her.


Reds and Blues inserted by Jo Weber:
Quote

I called her 2 times to warn her about a predator knocking on her door, an uninvited predator! YOU Bruce Smith! The conversation was brief and to the point!



Quote

I just do NOT like uninvited invasions into the lives of people who have suffered enough harm from the media - I do and will speak out and I try to protect those whose lives have already been harmed - enough is enough!

One can be agressive without being intrusive - an art you are finally learning

Jo also has an appreciation of the depth and breath of issues that might be affecting the Cooper investigation, such as the role that MKULTRA may have played, or covert military operations in Southeast Asia. When I first began corresponding with Jo she talked extensively to me about JM WAVE, the largest covert operations base on US soil run by the CIA. Prior, I had never heard of JM WAVE, and still have only a foggy idea of what goes on there.

One of those who has long-suffered the rants of Jo is Georger. Georger is a smart guy who often gets cranky himself. In fact, Georger is a professor at a mid-western university and has unusual ties to Norjak – both familial and professional. Occasionally, Georger makes reference to his FBI connections, which seem to be substantive if not fully revealed in their exact nature.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Shocked? He wrote a book.

Yes, Geoffrey probably has a copy of the Farrell work. Geoff showed parts of it, at least photos, in a power point presentation at the Portland Symposium. Geoff has plenty of stuff, such as transcripts on the parachutes - remember that I stole stuff from him that he had stolen from the FBI via a link posted here on the DZ! Geoff also had copies of the hand-written notes taken in the cockpit and gave copies of his copies to others, and now I have copies of copies of ciopies.



Geoff may have a valuable property.

Is he worth it!?

The Smithsonian gets fucked again, by some
"reporter", who with a little training could be giving the
local weather report each night on KPEE-TV !

What has this world come to!

He wrote a 'book'?

Monks write books!



My unsolicited advice is to stop picking on authors. Hey, Woodward and Bernstein would have lied/cheated/stolen to get the truth for All The President's Men, as long as the sources could be confirmed. :)
I'm sure you already know that books are in the top three of man's greatest inventions, but like when someone says 'make sure you wear your seat belt,' it's just a friendly reminder.

Some authors I practically worship the ground they walk (or walked) upon. Like these: Joseph Heller, George Orwell, Ursula K. LeGuin, (I have letters from her!) Ray Bradbury, Arthur C. Clarke, Nevil Shute, others many and legend. In LeGuin's case, I spoke to her on the phone once. Told her that if I didn't already have a mother, I'd ask her to adopt me. She laughed.

Jo says in part:

Quote

'Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013 by Jo Weber...'



Only ONE copyright is necessary. Each year at DZ, on January 1, you can change the date to the current year and leave it at that. Copyright lasts 70 years beyond the death of the author. More or less. For older works, a bit longer sometimes. The H.G. Wells Estate guys are getting nervous lately. He died in 1940 and his copyrights go public domain in 2016. They are strict guardians of his works, but the Gravy Train will run out in three years. :)
After this happens, you know I will edit some of his works and post them to Kindle, right? Wells never thought of himself as a sci-fi writer. He considered that a monetary means to an end. He considered himself a teacher and a historian.


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Georger anything science or Cooper Scoopers come up with is too late. This case is and will be officially closed very soon.

When is the opening of the Cooper display at that museum?
And where is that museum located - LONGVIEW?




Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013 by Jo Weber ? Hilarious!! :D:D:D



You are the only ONE who caught that! ;):ph34r::D
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert99, McShutter, Farflung, Hangdiver, SafecrackingPlF, and Meyer Louie and many others have all been informative and reasonable. Sadly, Meyer lost his cool one night and got kicked-out in 2012. Same, too, for Galen Cook back in 2009.



I would by lying if I didn't say your review is
enjoyable. One tries. But you left out Orange-1 who
definitely earned a spot in your review. She kept us all
sane for many years and made many valuable-
perceptive posts, and still may!

You left out Sluggo! His contributions and vast know-
ledge continue to be irreplaceable and we are less for
his taking a rest. Sluggo came back in December to
inform us he is :still alive:! I personally wish he was
still here. Sluggo was always a backbone of reason.
I personally could say the same for Farflung.

And, you left out yourself. You have made vital
contributions here, which have literally held this forum
together at times. We all know your interest in this
case is sincere and deep, if problematic at times.

Keep up the good work, Bruce.

It is more than any other DB Cooper forum has ever
achieved, and that's just a fact.

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Quote

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Georger anything science or Cooper Scoopers come up with is too late. This case is and will be officially closed very soon.

When is the opening of the Cooper display at that museum?
And where is that museum located - LONGVIEW?




Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013 by Jo Weber ? Hilarious!! :D:D:D



You are the only ONE who caught that! ;):ph34r::D



Lady - I have your number. ... sometimes. It never
matters however.
:ph34r:

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Georger anything science or Cooper Scoopers come up with is too late. This case is and will be officially closed very soon.

When is the opening of the Cooper display at that museum?
And where is that museum located - LONGVIEW?




Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013 by Jo Weber ? Hilarious!! :D:D:D



You are the only ONE who caught that! ;):ph34r::D



It's the Washington State History Museum in Tacoma. Trust me, you won't get lost trying to find it. I think the display and the symposium to follow is in August. Geoff Gray, the Oregon Kick-Ass History folks are the main perpetrators of the symposium. Good place to have it. It's so frickin' BORING in Tacoma that the crowd should be good. Nothing else to do in that town except fend off gangsters or drop by Point Defiance. B|

Yes, I do plan to attend this one. No excuses can be offered. It's only a half-hour drive from my office.

BTW: I completely agree with Georger's post back there about the other contributors to DZ Cooper and the fact that both threads contain a wealth of info on the case.

NOTE: I don't think Meyer Louie is permanently banned. I sent a message to Quade a while back saying Meyer should be allowed to return. So he used a few names on me. Big deal. You should see some of the emails I get. :)


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I want whatever Georger is infusing this evening. He is in a wonderful mood. Savor it G!

Bruce: Orange1 definitely needs recognition. She added a lot to the collective intelligence here. I sure wish she would return.

E Vicki is a class act and a smart cookie. She certainly deserves a spot.

Jo, I would eat two crows if Paul Quade thought this forum was worthy of his creative attention as a screenwriter. I think he viewed this assignment as a task not an inspiration. But I might be wrong. I often miss subtle nuanced things.

And don't forget Dorkzone. It is still on YouTube. Publish a link in your book. Safe's chaptered video on the Tena Bar money path is another must see forum inspired video.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Robert99, McShutter, Farflung, Hangdiver, SafecrackingPlF, and Meyer Louie and many others have all been informative and reasonable. Sadly, Meyer lost his cool one night and got kicked-out in 2012. Same, too, for Galen Cook back in 2009.



I would by lying if I didn't say your review is
enjoyable. One tries. But you left out Orange-1 who
definitely earned a spot in your review. She kept us all
sane for many years and made many valuable-
perceptive posts, and still may!

You left out Sluggo! His contributions and vast know-
ledge continue to be irreplaceable and we are less for
his taking a rest. Sluggo came back in December to
inform us he is :still alive:! I personally wish he was
still here. Sluggo was always a backbone of reason.
I personally could say the same for Farflung.

And, you left out yourself. You have made vital
contributions here, which have literally held this forum
together at times. We all know your interest in this
case is sincere and deep, if problematic at times.

Keep up the good work, Bruce.

It is more than any other DB Cooper forum has ever
achieved, and that's just a fact.



Quote



I was tempted to mention Orange1 specifically, but everytime I thought of her I remembered her comments about my encounters with Tina. The image-slash-fantasy that then arose for me is Orange pushing me out of an airplane sans NB 8 (or anything ressembling one) shouting: THAT's FOR TINA! I also have a second flight of fancy, of Orange burning me at a stake, ala the Salem witch trials. Whew...

As for Sluggo, he gets special mention with his web site "n67us." Yup, Sluggo is a biggie.

EVicki also has a special place in my, um, heart...

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I was tempted to mention Orange1 specifically, but everytime I thought of her I remembered her comments about my encounters with Tina. The image-slash-fantasy that then arose for me is Orange pushing me out of an airplane sans NB 8 (or anything ressembling one) shouting: THAT's FOR TINA! I also have a second flight of fancy, of Orange burning me at a stake, ala the Salem witch trials. Whew...
.



well, Orange did represent how many people felt.
Orange did represent a valid point of view. I think you
should include her. I agree with 377.

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Bruce wrote***I was tempted to mention Orange1 specifically, but everytime I thought of her I remembered her comments about my encounters with Tina. The image-slash-fantasy that then arose for me is Orange pushing me out of an airplane sans NB 8 (or anything ressembling one) shouting: THAT's FOR TINA! I also have a second flight of fancy, of Orange burning me at a stake, ala the Salem witch trials. Whew...
Quote



Hah. You'd actually have several jumpmasters for your chuteless jump. Jo would certainly be there with Orange.

Orange and Snow dug really deep on SE Asia topics including the intriguing MACV SOG night jumps into the NVN jungle. http://www.macvsog.cc/

They also explored the CIA's recruitment of smoke jumpers for covert ops in SE Asia.

Sheridan's smoke jumper background and his work as an "advisor" in Nam are noteworthy as is his work in technical documentation at Boeing, night jump experience, business suit jump, and huge grudge against the US Govt. I think Sheridan is a superbly qualified candidate, but I can't square Norjack with his character. He seems to be a principled person who abhors violence and he has no criminal record. He looks a lot like the FBI sketches and according to Sailshaw has an olive complexion. If his Nepal alibi was really solid the FBI wouldn't have insisted on a DNA test. They ruled him out on DNA.

Sailshaws recommends that the FBI see if Sheridans DNA matches any on the letters or stamps and envelopes used for the highly publicized post skyjack letters sent to newspapers allegedly authored by DBC. It's an easy thing to do IF they have good samples.

Bruce, any chance you could ask Norman whether he machined pure titanium in his shop prior to the skyjack date? Maybe you could show him Toms tie findings and ask if any of those metals might have been on the rigs he supplied to the FBI.

377

PS, my HUD goggles ROCK. Tiny tiny color LCD screen, GPS receiver, barometric digital altimeter, three axis accelerometer, lithium ion battery. Real time graphical data readouts including lift over drag ratio. All this for under $300 (i was a beta customer). Sadly no radio. I was hoping for at least Bluetooth. We live in an age of electronic miracles. I was an EE freshman when I turned 18 and made my first jump. I fantasized about all sorts of electronic skydiving gadgets but none as cool as this.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Hah. You'd actually have several jumpmasters for your chuteless jump. Jo would certainly be there with Orange.

Orange and Snow dug really deep on SE Asia topics including the intriguing MACV SOG night jumps into the NVN jungle. http://www.macvsog.cc/

They also explored the CIA's recruitment of smoke jumpers for covert ops in SE Asia.

Sheridan's smoke jumper background and his work as an "advisor" in Nam are noteworthy as is his work in technical documentation at Boeing, night jump experience, business suit jump, and huge grudge against the US Govt. I think Sheridan is a superbly qualified candidate, but I can't square Norjack with his character. He seems to be a principled person who abhors violence and he has no criminal record. He looks a lot like the FBI sketches and according to Sailshaw has an olive complexion. If his Nepal alibi was really solid the FBI wouldn't have insisted on a DNA test. They ruled him out on DNA.

Sailshaws recommends that the FBI see if Sheridans DNA matches any on the letters or stamps and envelopes used for the highly publicized post skyjack letters sent to newspapers allegedly authored by DBC. It's an easy thing to do IF they have good samples.

Bruce, any chance you could ask Norman whether he machined pure titanium in his shop prior to the skyjack date? Maybe you could show him Toms tie findings and ask if any of those metals might have been on the rigs he supplied to the FBI.

377



Sheridan definitely had the skills. He also liked to
challenge authorities, if the info I read is correct. But,
couldn't Sheridan have composed the 'Cooper letters'
without having been DB Cooper? I don't see that the
one requires the other, as some claim.

Would Sheridan have behaved on the plane as
Cooper did?

Can Sheridan be linked to McCoy or Gossett in any
way? Where and why did Cooper conceive the idea of
parachuting from an airplane, as a means of escape?
Did Cooper reveal a political element to his crime
during his time aboard 305 - that is a question which
has not been answered to my satisfaction. (I see
nothing in the record so far that points to Cooper
specifically expressing a political element, as Sheridan
has?)

Farflung has been asking a fundamental question:
how should Cooper's crime be judged as any different
or unique from any of the other hijackers during the
same period. Farflung's is an important question for
several reasons; #1, Farflung is trying to establish a
baseline for comparing Cooper to other parachuting
hijackers, and #2, Farflung is saying that no special
skills were required or even 'evidenced' in Cooper's
crime, until something specific is identified that
separates Cooper from the general population, or
puts Cooper squarely in a special population of
McCoy's, Sheridans, etc. Farflung is saying no such
proof has been given, to his satisfaction, if I read him
correctly. Farflung is saying 'Cooper must pass this
test'.

Likewise, George Nuttall asked: "What set of facts
gave Cooper the idea he could bail from a 727?'

Nuttall went so far as to suggest that JT or perhaps
some of the named candidates with parachuting skills,
may have unknowingly given Cooper the idea to use
parachuting in an extortion attempt.

Farflung's Test is a valid test, imo. Especially if you
are going to compare Cooper with someone like
Sheridan. You must show that Cooper displayed skills
and knowledge on a par with Sheridan. It's pretty clear
Bill Rataczak does not think that was the case; which
takes us back to Farf's basic contention - that Cooper
could have been anybody from the general population.

That is the baseline and test that must be used.

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PS, my HUD goggles ROCK. Tiny tiny color LCD screen, GPS receiver, barometric digital altimeter, three axis accelerometer, lithium ion battery. Real time graphical data readouts including lift over drag ratio. All this for under $300 (i was a beta customer). Sadly no radio. I was hoping for at least Bluetooth. We live in an age of electronic miracles. I was an EE freshman when I turned 18 and made my first jump. I fantasized about all sorts of electronic skydiving gadgets but none as cool as this.



Many USAF pilots learned the hard way that all the electronic gadgets demand far too much attention in the cockpit while "interesting" things were happening out there on the other side of their canopy around them in the far too real world.


I see some newbie skydivers going out and buying all the gadgets and then getting electronic brain lock leading to going in with those things. Too many distractions in freefall can and have in the past led to high speed craters on our planet. Just reference all the new people sticking a damn Go-Pro to their helmets to get "COOL YOUTUBE VIDEO". How many dead friends do you have who were in this sport and trying to get cool video.[:/][:/]

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Farflung's Test is a valid test, imo. Especially if you
are going to compare Cooper with someone like
Sheridan. You must show that Cooper displayed skills
and knowledge on a par with Sheridan. It's pretty clear
Bill Rataczak does not think that was the case; which
takes us back to Farf's basic contention - that Cooper
could have been anybody from the general population.

That is the baseline and test that must be used.



Cooper could indeed have been anybody from the general population with some unique exceptions:

1. Where did Cooper get his information about the 727 flap, landing gear, and speed conditions he specified to the flight crew? It is "unlikely" that this information came from 727 commercial airline documents.

2. Cooper apparently did have experience in routinely putting on and wearing emergency parachutes. And that means he had aircraft experience in one capacity or another.

3. Cooper knew that the 727 could take off with the rear stairs unlocked, but he apparently had not seen that specific rear stair control panel before. This knowledge could not have come from 727 commercial airline operations or handbooks. And that means . . . . ..

If Cooper's body is ever located, check for dog tags.

Robert99

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Amazon warned
Quote

Many USAF pilots learned the hard way that all the electronic gadgets demand far too much attention in the cockpit while "interesting" things were happening out there on the other side of their canopy around them in the far too real world.


I see some newbie skydivers going out and buying all the gadgets and then getting electronic brain lock leading to going in with those things. Too many distractions in freefall can and have in the past led to high speed craters on our planet. Just reference all the new people sticking a damn Go-Pro to their helmets to get "COOL YOUTUBE VIDEO". How many dead friends do you have who were in this sport and trying to get cool video.



All good points Amazon. Distracted skydiving is deadly.

I'd never use the HUD goggles in RW formation jumps. Jumpers need to see the other jumpers eyes in RW and the mirrored lens of the HUD goggles block this critical info. They also don't have great peripheral vision.

I'm using the HUD for my HAHO radio jumps where I am normally the last out, open right out of the plane and share the sky with no other jumpers.

Years of jumping at WFFC (very crowded skies and LZs at times) make me do a lot of scanning and head swivelling. It's a good habit. Many times I have spotted other jumpers that have no idea I am near them and fly their whole approach and landing without spotting me.

I've been jumping for 45 years. Seeing others have mishaps has made me very conservative. I'd rather land far away from the swoopers and walk a few hundred yards than mix my big slow canopy with their zippy postage stamp chutes. I jump a big main and big reserve (190 and 193 sq ft). Always use an AAD. Always wear a helmet, etc. Oh, and I dont text in flight either.

I am not accident proof, but I sure take efforts to manage and mitigate the risks. I want to jump into my eighties if I can do it safely. I jumped with an 81 year old guy at WFFC and he was awesome. Highly skilled RW flyer, sharp, fit and very aware. He inspired me.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Georger wrote
Quote

Farflung is saying that no special
skills were required or even 'evidenced' in Cooper's
crime, until something specific is identified that
separates Cooper from the general population, or
puts Cooper squarely in a special population of
McCoy's, Sheridans, etc. Farflung is saying no such
proof has been given, to his satisfaction



Great summary of Farf's very logical fact based conclusion.

He may be right. DBC could have been a Whuffo.

Still, there are clues that he was aviation savvy. He gave very specific commands about flap angle, altitude, airspeed gear configuration and pressurization. Most Whuffos dont know a flap from an elevator or spoiler. Most Whuffos wouldn't think about exit speeds. Most whuffos wouldnt think about flying depressurized.

I still think DBC KNEW a 727 could be jumped. I cant prove it though. If he didnt know, he was taking a huge chance of entering an aluminum jail cell that would deliver him to the authorities upon landing.

Very few people knew in 1971 that a 727 could be jumped. I didnt know it and at that time I owned a big 727 flight manual. Neither the Capt, FO or FE knew either. Nobody at NWA ops knew. They had to call Boeing.

Guys privy to the Air America SAT 727 jumps over Thailand knew. Guys who worked on or had access to info on Boeings flight tests knew.

Not one of my many jumper friends in 1971 knew. We all wondered how the hell DBC knew he could get out of a 727 in flight.

Jo insisted to me that 727s were used for air drops in SE Asia. I was sure she was mistaken but started researching and found extensive documentation verifying Jo's claim. Snow dug even deeper.

Jo, how did you know? Was it a guess? Did someone tell you? If so who? What exactly did they tell you if you can recall?

I'd love to ask Sheridan if he knew. It doesnt make him DBC but it tells us something about how widely the info spread in SE Asia.

The jumps in SE Asia were not exactly the same as Cooper's (stairs appear to have been removed) but they conveyed a lot of info about the practicality of jumping from a 727. You still needed to know that the door could be opened and the stairs deployed in flight. My guess is that Boeing had this additional info as a result of their flight tests.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Many USAF pilots learned the hard way that all the electronic gadgets demand far too much attention in the cockpit while "interesting" things were happening out there on the other side of their canopy around them in the far too real world.

.[:/][:/]



documented - verified. Understatement of the last
half of the 20th century, for some? Real world won.
Well the pilots won - or some of my best friends and
former classmates would not be around to attend
reunions! What a cluster ruck! There are some great
testimonials out there ...

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