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quade

DB Cooper

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On 2/4/2008 at 12:59 AM, quade said:

Keep it civil or it's all going to be trashed.

If you'd like to discuss this topic without my moderation, Yahoo.com makes "groups" all day long. Feel free to use them.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Geez, I can't believe people are still talking about this after all these years.  At the dropzone I started jumping at (which will remain unnamed to protect the innocent), word had it the owner was the infamous DB Cooper.  He was the county sheriff, had flown bush in Alaska for years, and was ex-military.  I met him a couple of times.  Very cool, calm and collected.  He is absolutely the last person you would have ever f'ed with.  Having said all that, he was a pretty nice fellow.

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On 4/22/2023 at 11:45 AM, olemisscub said:

I cleaned up the ARINC transcript so they aren't all crooked and gross looking.

Your modified version of ARINC transcript does look nice and neat. Although, I think two entries at 8:01 and 8:02 pm on the original disappeared between your 7:57 and 8:03 entries.

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(edited)

I happen to be one of the few people who think the Cooper hijacking was 'political' vs monetary, and Cooper escaping into oblivion (being untraceable) was a fundamental part of his plan. By his own words, he waited looking for the right plane in the right place at the right time. I think his money demand may be been a token vs some financial need on his part - and he may have even tossed the money into the Columbia so there could be no connection between the money and himself. His hijacking may have been a singular event in his life.  [the mass of men live lives of quiet desperation...Thoreau ]

There is precedent for this kind of crime or 'social expression'. For example, had the Una Bomber not issued his public manifesto which got published, he might not have been found during his lifetime. He said after the fact that his manifesto was a 'mistake'. Core to his grudge against 'technology' were the railroads and the airlines.  

Edited by georger

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2 hours ago, Slim King said:

Cooper was a trained professional who worked for the seedy underbelly of our government. He was never meant to be caught. The 302's are red herrings.

You realize there are somewhere around 75,000 pages of INTERNAL documents on the case  i.e. documents never intended to be seen by the public. That's quite a lot of red herrings. 

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3 hours ago, georger said:

I happen to be one of the few people who think the Cooper hijacking was 'political' vs monetary, and Cooper escaping into oblivion (being untraceable) was a fundamental part of his plan. By his own words, he waited looking for the right plane in the right place at the right time. I think his money demand may be been a token vs some financial need on his part - and he may have even tossed the money into the Columbia so there could be no connection between the money and himself. His hijacking may have been a singular event in his life.  [the mass of men live lives of quiet desperation...Thoreau ]

There is precedent for this kind of crime or 'social expression'. For example, had the Una Bomber not issued his public manifesto which got published, he might not have been found during his lifetime. He said after the fact that his manifesto was a 'mistake'. Core to his grudge against 'technology' were the railroads and the airlines.  

Consider me in this camp as well. I agree with this 100% G. 

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I don't think it's impossible that Cooper could've had a secondary motive, or something that he found even more important than the money... I really can't buy him not caring about the money at all, though. He clearly cared about it when it came on board, what with flaunting it to Florence and being frustrated with how it was being stored. He took care in securing it before jumping. The observational evidence of his behavior indicates that the crime must have at least been partially about the money to me.

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(edited)
3 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Consider me in this camp as well. I agree with this 100% G. 

I had no idea you thought this!  Good grief!!  Now there are two of us in the MINORITY... Thank you sir.^_^

Edited by georger

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1 hour ago, Coopericane said:

I don't think it's impossible that Cooper could've had a secondary motive, or something that he found even more important than the money... I really can't buy him not caring about the money at all, though. He clearly cared about it when it came on board, what with flaunting it to Florence and being frustrated with how it was being stored. He took care in securing it before jumping. The observational evidence of his behavior indicates that the crime must have at least been partially about the money to me.

The money could have lead to his capture.  Is that risk however small, worth it ?  Would you trade your life/freedom for $200k?    500k?   one million?   . . . . 

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1 hour ago, Slim King said:

Yes it is. And you seem to be adding to the red herring school......just keep swimming... The flight path is bogus.

If only Reca had told a more cohesive lie you wouldn’t have to be bending over backwards claiming that military radar was wrong, civilian radar was wrong, the chase plane pilots were wrong, the air traffic controllers were wrong, and the pilots of Flight 305 were wrong. The flight path surely couldn’t have been where ALL of these different witnesses agree on, it was actually 140 MILES away. 
 

Everyone is agreeing an event took place in New York City and you’re claiming that it actually took place in Baltimore. Cle Elum to the the Cooper DZ is almost that far in distance. 
 

That’s how utterly ridiculous supporting Reca makes someone. 

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9 hours ago, Slim King said:

Has the FBI ever been caught lying before?

military radar techs, civilian radar techs, Air Force pilots, air traffic controllers, and the flight crew don't work for the FBI. 

People who apply conspiracy theories to the Cooper case don't realize that Cooper wasn't special. There were 150 skyjackings in the previous four years over American skies. He was the first successful parajacker, sure, but much of his success was due to being first. The FBI quickly adapted and every parajacker who came afterward were apprehended. 

The Cooper skyjacking was nothing more than a clever bank robbery. Even today with modern crime fighting techniques and forensics, the FBI only solve 60% of bank robberies. There didn't need to be a conspiracy or cover up for Cooper to have successfully eluded the FBI for all those years. 

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19 hours ago, georger said:

I happen to be one of the few people who think the Cooper hijacking was 'political' vs monetary, and Cooper escaping into oblivion (being untraceable) was a fundamental part of his plan. By his own words, he waited looking for the right plane in the right place at the right time. I think his money demand may be been a token vs some financial need on his part - and he may have even tossed the money into the Columbia so there could be no connection between the money and himself. His hijacking may have been a singular event in his life.  [the mass of men live lives of quiet desperation...Thoreau ]

There is precedent for this kind of crime or 'social expression'. For example, had the Una Bomber not issued his public manifesto which got published, he might not have been found during his lifetime. He said after the fact that his manifesto was a 'mistake'. Core to his grudge against 'technology' were the railroads and the airlines.  

I am skeptical on this being a political crime.   In most politically motivated crimes, the perpetrator wants people to know specifically what their cause or motivation are, that's kind of the whole point, and they usually offer it up on their own volition.  

In my opinion, the hijacker made nothing clearly or unmistakingly known of any political cause.  He shared only a few pieces of unprompted information:

- My name is Dan Cooper (could the name imply a political motive?)

- I want $200k (could the number mean something? )

- I want to go to Mexico  (interesting, could be part of an underlying motive)

Some of the above could have some hidden meaning I suppose...but it isn't definitive in any way.

Outside of this, every other piece of information he shared was prompted by a questions from Tina or within the context of instructions to carry out the crime:

- right place...right time ( it met HIS needs).

- i don't have grudge against your airline(s)...just have "a grudge"

The "grudge" statement is the closest he comes to acknowledging some motive but we are ultimately left to wonder what his grudge was.  To me it sounds more personal in scope rather than a bigger cause.  

I do agree that there is a fine line between expressing motive and getting caught and there is a trade off there.  But I feel like most political criminals aren't as concerned about getting caught, their goal is "the cause" more than their freedom.

Just my thoughts, I could be wrong and am open to the contrary.

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(edited)
2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

military radar techs, civilian radar techs, Air Force pilots, air traffic controllers, and the flight crew don't work for the FBI. 

People who apply conspiracy theories to the Cooper case don't realize that Cooper wasn't special. There were 150 skyjackings in the previous four years over American skies. He was the first successful parajacker, sure, but much of his success was due to being first. The FBI quickly adapted and every parajacker who came afterward were apprehended. 

The Cooper skyjacking was nothing more than a clever bank robbery. Even today with modern crime fighting techniques and forensics, the FBI only solve 60% of bank robberies. There didn't need to be a conspiracy or cover up for Cooper to have successfully eluded the FBI for all those years. 

What are the options you see for Cooper escaping capture?

Edited by georger

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13 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Everyone is agreeing an event took place in New York City and you’re claiming that it actually took place in Baltimore. Cle Elum to the the Cooper DZ is almost that far in distance. 

I have to wonder why they chose Cle Elum for their witness location. Upon reviewing their story and the witness interview, it seems like they had many of the commonly accepted hijacking details down. Why would they miss this “major” one?

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2 hours ago, JAGdb said:

I am skeptical on this being a political crime.   In most politically motivated crimes, the perpetrator wants people to know specifically what their cause or motivation are, that's kind of the whole point, and they usually offer it up on their own volition.  

In my opinion, the hijacker made nothing clearly or unmistakingly known of any political cause.  He shared only a few pieces of unprompted information:

- My name is Dan Cooper (could the name imply a political motive?)

- I want $200k (could the number mean something? )

- I want to go to Mexico  (interesting, could be part of an underlying motive)

Some of the above could have some hidden meaning I suppose...but it isn't definitive in any way.

Outside of this, every other piece of information he shared was prompted by a questions from Tina or within the context of instructions to carry out the crime:

- right place...right time ( it met HIS needs).

- i don't have grudge against your airline(s)...just have "a grudge"

The "grudge" statement is the closest he comes to acknowledging some motive but we are ultimately left to wonder what his grudge was.  To me it sounds more personal in scope rather than a bigger cause.  

I do agree that there is a fine line between expressing motive and getting caught and there is a trade off there.  But I feel like most political criminals aren't as concerned about getting caught, their goal is "the cause" more than their freedom.

Just my thoughts, I could be wrong and am open to the contrary.

The hijacking got massive news coverage. At the time most hijackings were political. (everything is political ?)

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(edited)
42 minutes ago, c99acer said:

I have to wonder why they chose Cle Elum for their witness location. Upon reviewing their story and the witness interview, it seems like they had many of the commonly accepted hijacking details down. Why would they miss this “major” one?

People commonly hatch such stories in a vacuum - facts are left out for a variety of reasons - the motivation is not fact-based!

For some reason these stories never backfire on their tellers - people are never held to account for these stories.

Edited by georger
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13 hours ago, Slim King said:

Time to smell the coffee..... Cubans were not allowed to fly to Cuba  at this time. The only way to fly to Cuba was to Hijack a plane. The easy solution is what we do now. We let Cubans fly to Cuba. My Uncle flys back and forth several times a year. The whole this was a scam to start with.

During the flight from Portland to Seattle Mucklow had light conversation with the hijacker. She asked him where he was from but he became upset  and said he didn’t want to answer that. She steered the conversation into remarking ‘that if they were going to Cuba airline personnel were advised to warn passengers against buying Cuban rum or cigars because US Customs would confiscate them when they returned to the United States.  (Mucklow says) the hijacker laughed and said ‘they weren’t going to Cuba, but she would like where they were going’.  

He asked her where she was from and she told him she was from Pennsylvania but was living in Minneapolis. He replied that ‘Minneapolis, Minnesota is very nice country’.

No Cuban accent.

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21 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

I also noticed this guy, a suspect called Robert Harry Boles, who in my opinion, possessed a strong resemblance to the "B" sketch...
Capture.PNG.07f38c5b2729ee475cf2b205acb9c985.PNG

Yeah, I noticed first thing how much he looks like Hoodlum. The Bing sketch really did a number on the FBI's resources in these early days. Notice how many of these dudes are in their 30's. 

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A letter found at a redacted address in Seattle in March 1972. No further info to give. They haven't yet started scanning the numbered suspect files (this is No. 260). So I assume we'll know more about this letter and it's provenance at some point in the future. Also, the numbered suspect files aren't all relating to actual named suspects. Often times leads such as this one were given a "suspect file". We might not ever know the outcome of this letter. It's almost certainly not to do with Cooper, but you never know I guess.

It's hard to make out some of it, but I've got:

"Points to remember when skyjacking....

A plane for money [redacted]

Ask for

- the money (important

- 2 person worth of parachute

Remember

- let passenger off but keep crew

- keep cool

- bring bomb fake or real

- jump only at night

- Don't ask for too ??? ???

- ???

- put crew in cab before jumping

Optional

- ??? Helmet

- Name [redacted]

skyjacknotes.png

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