DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

13 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

The designation of " 26' " or " 24' " refers to the size of the canopy inside the container. People casually use the term 'parachute' to refer to either the canopy, the container, or the whole rig. In the "P2-B-24" designation for the container, the '24' might refer to the size of canopy it's intended for, it might not. Usually a few sizes of canopy will fit into a particular container. It's rigger's discretion of what canopy can be put into a container as long as it fits, unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer.

 

When you have said this before, weren't you referring to the NB-6/8 containers, not the 26' canopy?

 

Not necessarily. It does not appear to be a complete 'Frankenstein rig'. It's simply an older container that has had a newer harness put on at some point, not an unusual repair. Whatever canopy is in it is whatever it is.

 

Some time ago Shutter was going to look into this. I suggested he contact Skydive Kapowsin, the major DZ in that area, to find a suitable rigger. He ended up in contact with Jeff Farrington, the DZ owner, whose whole family are jumpers. It was Jeff and his son Andy who did the re-creation jump in that last History Channel(?) program that Bruce was in. The pandemic hit and the museum was closed for a while. Shutter got otherwise occupied. Bruce was going to take that over, but he's since retired from the case. If someone wanted to follow that up, I'd suggest contact the museum and Jeff at Kapowsin, and see if they're still willing to make that happen. Jeff has been around a long time, and has the credentials, ratings, and experience that the museum would want for someone to handle that rig.

Last thing first.  If anyone lives in the Seattle area and is willing to contact Jeff Farrington and the WSHM to try to arrange for a detailed inspection of the Hayden parachute, including opening the container and inspecting and photographing the canopy and risers plus the overall rig, I will happily reimburse their expenses (as long as they stay in the lower three digits before the decimal point).

It should be noted that once the Cossey packing seal has been broken, it is highly unlikely that any rigger is going to put his own seal on a 50+ year old parachute even if he does repack it.  Meaning that the Hayden parachute is a museum piece and is going to stay that way.

My definition of an NB-6 parachute rig is as shown in the pictures of one that is in Sluggo's work which can now be accessed through Shutter's site.  The NB-6, with a 26-foot conical canopy, that I owned in 1971 appears identical to Sluggo's NB-6.  And I inspected every stitch on the NB-6 rig that I owned.

My only reserve ride was on a 24-foot twill canopy.  But that is another long story.

Anyone willing to work together to get the Hayden parachute inspected should feel free to send me a PM.

[FLYJACK 654]

56 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Last thing first.  If anyone lives in the Seattle area and is willing to contact Jeff Farrington and the WSHM to try to arrange for a detailed inspection of the Hayden parachute, including opening the container and inspecting and photographing the canopy and risers plus the overall rig, I will happily reimburse their expenses (as long as they stay in the lower three digits before the decimal point).

It should be noted that once the Cossey packing seal has been broken, it is highly unlikely that any rigger is going to put his own seal on a 50+ year old parachute even if he does repack it.  Meaning that the Hayden parachute is a museum piece and is going to stay that way.

My definition of an NB-6 parachute rig is as shown in the pictures of one that is in Sluggo's work which can now be accessed through Shutter's site.  The NB-6, with a 26-foot conical canopy, that I owned in 1971 appears identical to Sluggo's NB-6.  And I inspected every stitch on the NB-6 rig that I owned.

My only reserve ride was on a 24-foot twill canopy.  But that is another long story.

Anyone willing to work together to get the Hayden parachute inspected should feel free to send me a PM.

The Hayden Pioneer chute, the one left on the plane returned to him was repacked twice after it was returned to Hayden..  There is no Cossey seal on it..

Cossey originally packed and filled out the card 26' Ripstop Conical SN 226 Sept. 1957.. the subsequent rigger never changed anything on the card.

It is not an NB6/8, it is a P2-B-24 from the early 40's

Edited March 16, 2023 by FLYJACK

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

The Hayden Pioneer chute, the one left on the plane returned to him was repacked twice after it was returned to Hayden..  There is no Cossey seal on it..

Cossey originally packed and filled out the card 26' Ripstop Conical SN 226 Sept. 1957.. the subsequent rigger never changed anything on the card.

It is not an NB6/8, it is a P2-B-24 from the early 40's

My point is that whatever seal is on the Hayden parachute is not going to be replaced by another rigger's seal regardless of what packing card goes with the parachute.

I doubt very much that the Hayden parachute is from the early 1940s.  If so, it would have been about 30 years old in 1971.  There was plenty of unused surplus military parachute equipment available post WW2 so that an essentially new (or at least unused) rig could be assembled by a rigger for a dirt-cheap price.  Would you believe $40 or so?  And I suspect that is what Cossey did with the Hayden rigs.   

[FLYJACK 654]

30 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

My point is that whatever seal is on the Hayden parachute is not going to be replaced by another rigger's seal regardless of what packing card goes with the parachute.

I doubt very much that the Hayden parachute is from the early 1940s.  If so, it would have been about 30 years old in 1971.  There was plenty of unused surplus military parachute equipment available post WW2 so that an essentially new (or at least unused) rig could be assembled by a rigger for a dirt-cheap price.  Would you believe $40 or so?  And I suspect that is what Cossey did with the Hayden rigs.   

That container is a Pioneer P2-B-24 from the early 40's.. the parachute was Sept 1957. The harness was April 1957.

Remember, it was an emergency bailout rig required to meet regulations...  Hayden never intended to use them.

But that rig at the museum is largely irrelevant.. the key take away is that the FBI had both of Hayden's back chute packing cards and didn't realize it.. the back chute Cooper used didn't match Cossey's description and they were looking for the wrong chute,, it may have actually been found but rejected.

Edited March 16, 2023 by FLYJACK

[SeventyWonderful 18]

On 3/12/2023 at 1:53 PM, olemisscub said:

Indeed. There's a 302 where Bill requests that they make one. Would be nice to see what Cooper's nose profile might have been and what type of turkey gobble he was remembering. 

Somebody on Reddit uploaded AI animations for Composite A and Composite B where you can kind of see what his profile looked like, at least as far as the drawings go.

[olemisscub 461]

On 3/4/2023 at 11:22 AM, CooperNWO305 said:

Which stewardess was living in Missouri in 1989? I’m assuming Alice. One from Eugene, OR is mentioned later on. This is from 1989, so they were still showing photos then. 

Confirmed that this was Flo living in Missouri. Her last name was Wheeler by that point. The mention of Arkansas is a clue but the clincher is the mention of Coffelt because Flo is the one who the Coffelt camp claimed ID'd him as Cooper. 

 

[dudeman17 267]

8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

it is highly unlikely that any rigger is going to put his own seal on a 50+ year old parachute even if he does repack it.  Meaning that the Hayden parachute is a museum piece and is going to stay that way.

Exactly. No one is going to put a seal on it as airworthy and usable. But he could unpack it, photograph it, and confirm that it is what it is suspected to be. And he could repack it so that returns to a displayable condition.

 

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

But that rig at the museum is largely irrelevant..

True, but it's still a tangible curiosity.

 

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Remember, it was an emergency bailout rig required to meet regulations...  Hayden never intended to use them.

As I once said to Blevins, if his plane was on fire and losing a wing, I bet he'd be willing to change his mind. Ha!

[georger 194]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:57 PM, Robert99 said:

Last thing first.  If anyone lives in the Seattle area and is willing to contact Jeff Farrington and the WSHM to try to arrange for a detailed inspection of the Hayden parachute, including opening the container and inspecting and photographing the canopy and risers plus the overall rig, I will happily reimburse their expenses (as long as they stay in the lower three digits before the decimal point).

It should be noted that once the Cossey packing seal has been broken, it is highly unlikely that any rigger is going to put his own seal on a 50+ year old parachute even if he does repack it.  Meaning that the Hayden parachute is a museum piece and is going to stay that way.

My definition of an NB-6 parachute rig is as shown in the pictures of one that is in Sluggo's work which can now be accessed through Shutter's site.  The NB-6, with a 26-foot conical canopy, that I owned in 1971 appears identical to Sluggo's NB-6.  And I inspected every stitch on the NB-6 rig that I owned.

My only reserve ride was on a 24-foot twill canopy.  But that is another long story.

Anyone willing to work together to get the Hayden parachute inspected should feel free to send me a PM.

WSHM could have done this years ago but demurred for some reason, just as they demurred from taking a position in the West path debate. Likewise they demurred from certifying your claim of redactions. WSHM has always followed a non-controversial middle road when it comes to their Cooper expertise. They apparently favor claiming experetise but do not wish to test anything, which at a blush is kind of 'cheesy' ! Their interests stop at the river's edge lest they get their feet wet... which is funny. Better to let someone else take the heat!   And you certainly have done that for them even though you are not a spokesman for WSHM, you have spoken for them and made claims for them "many many many" times!

Maybe you and WSHM need to counsel and decide who is what and which and speaking for ........ whom and for whatever ? It has become an open issue and very humerous between you and WSHM !

Are you on WSHM's Board of Directors? Yes or No ? Do you speak for WSHM? Someone make up their minds!

Edited March 17, 2023 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

17 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

True, but it's still a tangible curiosity.

I meant the parachute size or type is irrelevant to advancing the case.

Now, having it checked by a rigger is a big mistake. DO NOT DO IT.

Cooper pulled the card from the pocket and replaced the other card.. His DNA may be on the card or the edges of the pocket..

What should be done is the back chute card and pocket area is sampled for DNA... of course there are other people who have touched those areas. Cossey, Hayden, Reno chute inspector, rigger who repacked it and maybe FBI agents..  Still, probably fewer than the tie and you don't need approval of the FBI.. just the museum.

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by FLYJACK

[Robert99 37]

50 minutes ago, georger said:

WSHM could have done this years ago but demurred for some reason, just as they demurred from taking a position in the West path debate. Likewise they demurred from certifying your claim of redactions. WSHM has always followed a non-controversial middle road when it comes to their Cooper expertise. They apparently favor claiming experetise but do not wish to test anything, which at a blush is kind of 'cheesy' ! Their interests stop at the river's edge lest they get their feet wet... which is funny. Better to let someone else take the heat!   And you certainly have done that for them even though you are not a spokesman for WSHM, you have spoken for them and made claims for them "many many many" times!

Maybe you and WSHM need to counsel and decide who is what and which and speaking for ........ whom and for whatever ? It has become an open issue and very humerous between you and WSHM !

Are you on WSHM's Board of Directors? Yes or No ? Do you speak for WSHM? Someone make up their minds!

Georger, this is just more of your silliness.  I have never made a claim about WSHM that didn't originate with them.  I am me and they are them.  Or something like that.

On the Western Flight Path "debate", the WFP was developed in 2009 and I really don't remember when I heard of the WSHM but it was probably several years after that.

And I probably have several decades more experience in determining flight paths and redactions than anyone at WSHM.  If I had the unredacted radio transcripts, I would not need any further inputs from the USAF, FBI, or anyone else.

Last week was the 14th anniversary of my logging on to DropZone.  And the late Sluggo was the one who told me where to find it.

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

I meant the parachute size or type is irrelevant to advancing the case.

Now, having it checked by a rigger is a big mistake. DO NOT DO IT.

Cooper pulled the card from the pocket and replaced the other card.. His DNA may be on the card or the edges of the pocket..

What should be done is the back chute card and pocket area is sampled for DNA... of course there are other people who have touched those areas. Cossey, Hayden, Reno chute inspector, rigger who repacked it and maybe FBI agents..  Still, probably fewer than the tie and you don't need approval of the FBI.. just the museum.

 

Flyjack, calm down!  There is no need to panic.  How could determining what is actually in that parachute container be a mistake?

[FLYJACK 654]

6 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, calm down!  There is no need to panic.  How could determining what is actually in that parachute container be a mistake?

because you may further contaminate potential DNA....  not hard to understand

[georger 194]

5 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, this is just more of your silliness.  I have never made a claim about WSHM that didn't originate with them.  I am me and they are them.  Or something like that.

On the Western Flight Path "debate", the WFP was developed in 2009 and I really don't remember when I heard of the WSHM but it was probably several years after that.

And I probably have several decades more experience in determining flight paths and redactions than anyone at WSHM.  If I had the unredacted radio transcripts, I would not need any further inputs from the USAF, FBI, or anyone else.

Last week was the 14th anniversary of my logging on to DropZone.  And the late Sluggo was the one who told me where to find it.

I knew Sluggo. He told me he had no idea what you were claiming and the basis of your claims! I asked him about your redactions claim... "It's a mystery to me what he's basing that on. There could be lot of reasons."  Later I asked him what he thought about WSHM's redactions claims vs yours. Wayne replied: "They are different claims, as I read them. WSHM says there could be something else going on ...." 

So play it again Sam. We know your tap-dance by heart.   When you get some real evidence let the world know.  

For the umpteenth time with you, let me QUOTE WSHM on the topic if socalled redactions. WSHM actually says, quote:

Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released ATC transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

Flight data recorded in the ARINC teletype printouts may possibly be useful in reference to the outbound flight path of NW flight 305, with the focus on timestamp entries from 4:45 PM (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST) deliberately examined for this purpose.

Amen.

You claimed number of 'redactions' far exceeds WSHM's. 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by georger

[Robert99 37]

19 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

because you may further contaminate potential DNA....  not hard to understand

Flyjack, you don't need to touch the packing card to open and inspect the parachute.  So there is no reason for you to panic.  In any event, the packing cards have probably been touched by dozens if not hundreds of unknown people by this time and are worthless as far as DNA goes.

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, you don't need to touch the packing card to open and inspect the parachute.  So there is no reason for you to panic.  In any event, the packing cards have probably been touched by dozens if not hundreds of unknown people by this time and are worthless as far as DNA goes.

Nope,, you are wrong.

The packing card and the pocket may still have Cooper's DNA...  they were not touched a hundred times. Maybe half a dozen. The card/pocket are similar to the tie except we don't need to go through the FBI.

Opening the chute and checking it is completely irrelevant for this case.

The only relevancy for that chute is the potential DNA..

You have your priorities screwed up.

 

[Robert99 37]

13 hours ago, georger said:

I knew Sluggo. He told me he had no idea what you were claiming and the basis of your claims! I asked him about your redactions claim... "It's a mystery to me what he's basing that on. There could be lot of reasons."  Later I asked him what he thought about WSHM's redactions claims vs yours. Wayne replied: "They are different claims, as I read them. WSHM says there could be something else going on ...." 

So play it again Sam. We know your tap-dance by heart.   When you get some real evidence let the world know.  

For the umpteenth time with you, let me QUOTE WSHM on the topic if socalled redactions. WSHM actually says, quote:

Finding no. 1 – In a comparison of entries from both ARINC roll A and roll B, and the public released ATC transcript [2013.5.15.5] between the timestamp entries from 4:45 pm (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST), inclusive, there were found to be eight (8) areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, with each area made up of one or more individual “blocks” or entries of text, discovered in roll A:

Flight data recorded in the ARINC teletype printouts may possibly be useful in reference to the outbound flight path of NW flight 305, with the focus on timestamp entries from 4:45 PM (PST) to 8:24 PM (PST) deliberately examined for this purpose.

Amen.

You claimed number of 'redactions' far exceeds WSHM's. 

 

Georger, read the following carefully.

I also knew Sluggo and, in fact, I am the one who provided Sluggo's contact information to you.

Sluggo never made any statements to me similar to the ones you claim he made to you regarding redactions.  I suggest you take a look at Sluggo's site which can be accessed thru Shutter's site.

WSHM personnel did a study of the ARINC (repeat ARINC) transcripts a few years ago when they had access to the George Harrison papers.  They determined that some relevant transcripts were missing.

WSHM personnel provided me with a copy of their study and I have referred to it from time to time.  So the basis for statements about missing or redacted ARINC teletype transcripts is based on the WSHM work product and not on something I did.

The Aeronautical Radio Incorporated (ARINC) company provides subscription services to the airlines.  It is not a US Government organization.

The Air Traffic Control system in the USA is operated by the Federal Government.  The air traffic control radio transcripts of communications with the hijacked airliner have been released in a redacted version.

After examining the ATC transcripts, I noted 19 areas of redactions.  I have explained these redactions repeatedly over the last 14 years and there is no need to repeat the explanations here.

To summarize:

     WSHM personnel determined the missing or redacted portions of the ARINC teletype transcripts.  I did not have anything to do with this.

     I am the one who claims that there are 19 areas of redactions in the ATC radio transcripts.  WSHM did not have anything to do with this.

     Georger attempts to confuse the matter in pursuit of his own agenda.

  

[Robert99 37]

34 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Nope,, you are wrong.

The packing card and the pocket may still have Cooper's DNA...  they were not touched a hundred times. Maybe half a dozen. The card/pocket are similar to the tie except we don't need to go through the FBI.

Opening the chute and checking it is completely irrelevant for this case.

The only relevancy for that chute is the potential DNA..

You have your priorities screwed up.

 

Flyjack, what is your real reason for not wanting anyone to examine the Hayden parachute?  Probably "half a dozen" people had examined the packing cards by the time the FBI got their hands on them the night of the hijacking.

Your own priorities, whatever they are, are screwed up.

[FLYJACK 654]

10 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, what is your real reason for not wanting anyone to examine the Hayden parachute?  Probably "half a dozen" people had examined the packing cards by the time the FBI got their hands on them the night of the hijacking.

Your own priorities, whatever they are, are screwed up.

 

There is no good reason to examine that chute.. 99.9% probability it matches its packing card. It doesn't advance the case in any way.

There is a reason to try for Cooper's DNA on the card and pocket and there wouldn't be many people sticking their hands in the pocket. I bet Cooper's DNA is on the inside edge of the pocket.

Examining the chute is entirely irrelevant for this case and may jeopardize potential DNA, the only value that rig has is the potential DNA..

My priority is to solve the case, what is yours..

 

[georger 194]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, read the following carefully.

I also knew Sluggo and, in fact, I am the one who provided Sluggo's contact information to you.

Sluggo never made any statements to me similar to the ones you claim he made to you regarding redactions.  I suggest you take a look at Sluggo's site which can be accessed thru Shutter's site.

WSHM personnel did a study of the ARINC (repeat ARINC) transcripts a few years ago when they had access to the George Harrison papers.  They determined that some relevant transcripts were missing.

WSHM personnel provided me with a copy of their study and I have referred to it from time to time.  So the basis for statements about missing or redacted ARINC teletype transcripts is based on the WSHM work product and not on something I did.

The Aeronautical Radio Incorporated (ARINC) company provides subscription services to the airlines.  It is not a US Government organization.

The Air Traffic Control system in the USA is operated by the Federal Government.  The air traffic control radio transcripts of communications with the hijacked airliner have been released in a redacted version.

After examining the ATC transcripts, I noted 19 areas of redactions.  I have explained these redactions repeatedly over the last 14 years and there is no need to repeat the explanations here.

To summarize:

     WSHM personnel determined the missing or redacted portions of the ARINC teletype transcripts.  I did not have anything to do with this.

     I am the one who claims that there are 19 areas of redactions in the ATC radio transcripts.  WSHM did not have anything to do with this.

     Georger attempts to confuse the matter in pursuit of his own agenda.

  

REally! ??  Amazing ball  of tripe. But makes good fictional reading. Ive wandered into the wrong bar!

How are Tin Man & Dorothy ?

 WSHM personnel determined the missing or redacted portions of the ARINC teletype transcripts.  I did not have anything to do with this.

I guess that's true. WSHM said as much, but what does that mean? What were their socalled analysts qualifications/backgrounds - we never knew ? So many experts - so little tyme.  

For example, WSHM never clarified how or (whom) was responsible for the Flt Comms Transcript getting into the hands of the Seattle PI to be published?  Is that when the socalled redactions occurred - for the public? We presume the document was passed to the PI by some FBI Agent ? What FBI Agent did the redactions? Who in Seattle was qualified to do that? There is a large missing history according to you. WSHM only says there are 'missing or redacted' passages. You say only 'redactions' ...

We know Carr chose Sluggo as his outlet to the public. Carr didnt redact anything in the documents he conveyed to Wayne.

R99 yours is a full blown conspiracy theory. REDACTIONS INTENTIONAL!  Who did the redactions? Neither you or WSHM has ever addressed that openly!  Edwards says your theory is a misunderstanding, tinged with paranoia! .

xxx: why dint Sluggo endorse your west path theory ?  Explain that or your claim of redactions ?

Edited March 18, 2023 by georger

[WalterRaleigh 8]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Nope,, you are wrong.

The packing card and the pocket may still have Cooper's DNA...  they were not touched a hundred times. Maybe half a dozen. The card/pocket are similar to the tie except we don't need to go through the FBI.

Opening the chute and checking it is completely irrelevant for this case.

The only relevancy for that chute is the potential DNA..

You have your priorities screwed up.

 

This is a heck of a good idea! So who is going to contact the museum and advance the ball on this? @olemisscub, are you following this?

[Robert99 37]

4 hours ago, georger said:

REally! ??  Amazing ball  of tripe. But makes good fictional reading. Ive wandered into the wrong bar!

How are Tin Man & Dorothy ?

 WSHM personnel determined the missing or redacted portions of the ARINC teletype transcripts.  I did not have anything to do with this.

I guess that's true. WSHM said as much, but what does that mean? What were their socalled analysts qualifications/backgrounds - we never knew ? So many experts - so little tyme.  

For example, WSHM never clarified how or (whom) was responsible for the Flt Comms Transcript getting into the hands of the Seattle PI to be published?  Is that when the socalled redactions occurred - for the public? We presume the document was passed to the PI by some FBI Agent ? What FBI Agent did the redactions? Who in Seattle was qualified to do that? There is a large missing history according to you. WSHM only says there are 'missing or redacted' passages. You say only 'redactions' ...

We know Carr chose Sluggo as his outlet to the public. Carr didnt redact anything in the documents he conveyed to Wayne.

R99 yours is a full blown conspiracy theory. REDACTIONS INTENTIONAL!  Who did the redactions? Neither you or WSHM has ever addressed that openly!  Edwards says your theory is a misunderstanding, tinged with paranoia! .

xxx: why dint Sluggo endorse your west path theory ?  Explain that or your claim of redactions ?

Basically, the above is just more baloney from Georger.

I have never done a conspiracy theory.  And Dr. Edwards has never said any such thing to me.

Also, I don't remember discussing what is now known as the Western Flight Path with Sluggo and there was no need to do so.  One look at the so-called FBI flight path was all I needed to dismiss it.

The Western Flight Path has been fully explained here on DropZone and Shutter's site over the last 14 years.

Georger, you do not seem able to handle simple facts.  In my opinion, you need professional help.

[FLYJACK 654]

52 minutes ago, WalterRaleigh said:

This is a heck of a good idea! So who is going to contact the museum and advance the ball on this? @olemisscub, are you following this?

Since I am in Canada not much I can do,,, 

It would be easier to test the card/pocket on that chute than getting the tie from the FBI..

I would expect anyone who removed the card to leave DNA on the inside lip of the pocket..

[dudeman17 267]

8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

There is a reason to try for Cooper's DNA on the card and pocket...  ...the only value that rig has is the potential DNA..

I'll leave it up to you guys to determine what ought or ought not to be done with that rig. But if it were to be tested for DNA, a couple other places to test would be the underside of the shoulder part of the harness, as that is the most apparent and common way of picking it up, and also the pin protector flap on the back of the backpack. Along the edges of that, especially where those five snaps are that hold it closed. If Cooper knew enough to do a full pin check on it, he would have opened and reclosed that.

All of these areas would also have been touched by the rigger that did the two repacks after Hayden got it back.

[georger 194]

3 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Basically, the above is just more baloney from Georger.

I have never done a conspiracy theory.  And Dr. Edwards has never said any such thing to me.

Also, I don't remember discussing what is now known as the Western Flight Path with Sluggo and there was no need to do so.  One look at the so-called FBI flight path was all I needed to dismiss it.

The Western Flight Path has been fully explained here on DropZone and Shutter's site over the last 14 years.

Georger, you do not seem able to handle simple facts.  In my opinion, you need professional help.

Play it again Sam - 14 years and running.  

[georger 194]

6 hours ago, georger said:

Play it again Sam - 14 years and running.    

Wasnt your first version of a west path published by Sluggo on his website?  (Also, I don't remember discussing what is now known as the Western Flight Path with Sluggo and there was no need to do so.)  Strange he would publish it for you but never discuss it with you? Oh well . . ..

In fact, didnt you publish your theory in several versions several times on Wayne's site ?

I should be careful here or you will turn me into a chicken or a pig with your 'psychic' powers .    (I took one look at the FBI flight map and I knew it was wrong.)

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by georger