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quade

DB Cooper

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(edited)

Something is missing ?

Why hasn't Darren interviewed Dorwin Schreuder?  He has had plenty of time. He said he wanted to? And of course the reason to interview DS is because DS was present/involved in the 1980 excavation at Tena Bar, after the Ingram money was found.

There is that sticky matter of a fragment field! Promoter-Media Guy EU made a hullabaloo about the exact 'position' of the Ingram find, EU discounted the whole fragment field subject as nonsense (frags tracked into holes by careless agents digging - as if EU was there personally!) . . . now Darren evidently has put off talking to Dorwin Schreuder about the Ingram Find and Excavation, when he previously said he wanted to, very much? 

Maybe Darren could talk to EU about Media Promotions and Brian Ingram about Fabric Softener and the Ingram Arkansas Family History , instead ! ? :D 

Edited by georger

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(edited)

My father's work tie with ALPA pin. Note the damage caused by the pin to the tie, caused by the second little spike on the back that prevents rotation. The pin was also stuck to the tie, possibly from oxidation. My opinion is the hole in Cooper's tie was caused by such a pin (not necessarily an ALPA pin).

[Now that I look, there's actually some adhesive that stuck to the tie. The adhesive that attaches the needle to the tie pin]

 

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Edited by Andrade1812
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25 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

My father's work tie with ALPA pin. Note the damage caused by the pin to the tie, caused by the second little spike on the back that prevents rotation. The pin was also stuck to the tie, possibly from oxidation. My opinion is the hole in Cooper's tie was caused by such a pin (not necessarily an ALPA pin).

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Yes, see the extruded bezel around the pin that creates the large indent...  most pins are flat.

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(edited)

Pat may have been on to something! Sharp lady! 

Benefits of fabric softener on old deteriorating paper money:
 
The obvious reasons for using fabric softener on old money is it's an effective way to keep old deteriorating bills  soft and wrinkle-free. It also helps reduce friction between fibers, which creates less static cling and helps protect your old money from wear and tear, making it last longer than if you were to go without.
 
Maybe it was the washing that broke some of Tom's diatoms?  Did Tom detect Downy on the 'toms' slip sliding away off the bills ? Or to answer Edward's question, the money have have been too slippery to take on diatoms pouring out from the Ingram tap water. Why didn;t Tom use Downy in his money experiments !? Why did Brian fail to tell Tom about his mother's use of Downy ?  Will Ulis and Carr now look for twenties that have never been touched by - Downy ?   :$  Is there Downy on Cooper's tie ?  Could Downy find DB Cooper ! ?
 
This case never ceases to amaze me. Why was Nestle Chocolate, America's favorite candy, not found on Cooper's tie? Hmmmmmmmm.  We may be on to something!
Edited by georger

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(edited)

Is Brian 100% sure it was fabric softener or has his memory drifted over time?

but they only separated few bills on top/bottom of the packets.. 

The bill Tom examined looks like it was from the middle,, based on condition.

 

Somebody should ask Brian about the rubber bands in detail..

Where exactly were they attached, were they attached to all packets and all sides, when did they fall off.

Edited by FLYJACK
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(edited)
3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Is Brian 100% sure it was fabric softener or has his memory drifted over time?

but they only separated few bills on top/bottom of the packets.. 

The bill Tom examined looks like it was from the middle,, based on condition.

 

Somebody should ask Brian about the rubber bands in detail..

Where exactly were they attached, were they attached to all packets and all sides, when did they fall off.

Until Brian surfaces and is willing to talk to the world, nothing is possible. Evidently Brian is talking with people at the Facebook forum, and none others. Who knows what Brian knows or does not know.

When I was negotiating with Brian back in 2010 he put me in touch with his mother which lead to Pat and I have two conversations by phone, and possibly a third call between us. I found Pat a personable intelligent lady willing to talk and share what she knew/remembered. Pat and I discussed the cleaning of the money at some length. She was detailed in her recollection. She never mentioned 'fabric softener'. But, the Ingram's primary effort at the time was cleaning the money for presentation at a bank to get the money exchanged and they knew they had several thousand dollars in found money, so it was worth their time to clean the money for presentation. After a series of conversations following their discovery, initiated mainly by Harold/Dwayne/Spike? (the painter) they suddenly were made aware that their discovery was related to the DB Cooper case, and they now thought they were due a reward.

Pat may still be alive somewhere. Harold passed in 2019 and his obits dont even mention his wife or ex-wife 'Patricia'. Pat told me that when the kids turned up the money Harold was off at some distance but the kids called Harold to their side ... while she and Crystal were further down the beach discussing personal matters ... and Harold called to them to come back and see what had been found. She said when she got back, Harold had extracted the money and she provided a plastic bread wrapper to put the money in. She said everyone saw remnants of old rubber bands around the bundles of money but no paper straps.

I have explained all of this many times, but my posts are always ignored. Pat explained me their cleaning process on the kitchen table and in their sink. Dish soap and a small amount of Clorox were mentioned. Pat said one of the reasons she used Clorox was to kill bacteria to help preserve further deterioration of the money. [Smart lady!] Pat never mentioned fabric softener to me. I have no idea where that is coming from now. !

And of course it was Brian himself who provided me with Pat's phone number. She was living in Missouri at the time, as I recall. 

I asked Pat where they were when the kids found the money and she said: "mid way up from the water in the sand", which I wrote down. I didn't ask her about Crystal's version of the find because I didn't want to complicate the interview. To this day I still consider Pat a gracious intelligent lady, and I told Brian that when I reported back to him following my calls with his mother. I thanked Brian and told him I thought he was lucky to have Pat as his mother.      

I doubt Brian can contribute anything about the rubber bands. He may have noted them when the adults noticed them and talked to each other, but Brian was eight years old at the time. Forget Brian giving a forensic description of anything!

Edited by georger
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On 12/3/2022 at 6:03 PM, FLYJACK said:

Yes, Tom had the filter and they tested it for the show expecting tie DNA but the only DNA was Tom's..  announced after the show aired... clearly Tom was Cooper.

and the test was destructive..

 

New here. First post. Has anyone ever worn a new tie for 5 hours and tested it for DNA? Seems like a useful experiment.

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(edited)

Just got off the phone with McNally after 2 and a half hours. Guy is a hoot.

I asked him a bunch of "Coopery" things. Some notable comments. 

- His alias, Robert Wilson, was completely made up out of the blue. He has no idea why he chose it. Meant nothing.

- Despite having 1500 hours in an P-2 Neptune with the Navy, he was never shown how to put on a chute.

- He had a briefcase with him that contained gloves, a pistol (that wasn't used during the hijacking), his wig, sunglasses, and rope.

- He was so scared that he scooted down the stairs on his butt.

- He attached the money bag to his left leg with a leather belt that went through loops on the leather money bag. He later found out that the belt wasn't stitched, which is why it snapped.

- He doesn't know why he was described by passengers as swarthy or Hispanic (one article I came across said "Mexican or Spanish" He wasn't wearing makeup.

- Said the money bag was totally intact when it was found despite falling several thousand feet, which surprised him.

- Said he wearing a set of clothes under the clothes he wore during the hijacking. Tossed those out the plane. They were found.

- I asked if his briefcase was ever found and he said it wasn't.

- And my favorite: he took a shit in his chute, folded it together and then stepped on it to rub it all in so the FBI or law enforcement would be pissed when they found it. Says he has never seen it mentioned anywhere.

Edited by olemisscub
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(edited)
On 1/2/2023 at 6:26 PM, Johnnie Aladdin said:

New here. First post. Has anyone ever worn a new tie for 5 hours and tested it for DNA? Seems like a useful experiment.

Why 5 hrs? Is 5 the magic number?  What makes this a useful experiment?

Edited by georger

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(edited)

I asked him to draw a sketch of how he had it attached. He put his leather waist belt through the upper handle of the bag (that the guy is holding) and his belt apparently had two snaps on the buckle, it wasn't stitched, so of course it just snapped off. He says he had an identical belt in the closet at home and when he got home he inspected it and yanked really hard on it and it broke. He said I'm the first person to ask exactly how he secured it to himself. 

 

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Edited by olemisscub
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3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I asked him to draw a sketch of how he had it attached. He put his leather waist belt through the upper handle of the bag (that the guy is holding) and his belt apparently had two snaps on the buckle, it wasn't stitched, so of course it just snapped off. He says he had an identical belt in the closet at home and when he got home he inspected it and yanked really hard on it and it broke. He said I'm the first person to ask exactly how he secured it to himself. 

 

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Interesting..

Can you ask McNally about his experience with the stairs..  (not sure if the plane was a 727-100 or 200, the airstair controls differ slightly)

Opening them.. did they drop, how much.. there are two processes. Push the lever and they gravity drop, push the lever and the button they get hydraulic assist.

Were the stairs stable or did they fluctuate move with his weight.. 

(Of course the plane speed was much higher than for Cooper)

and about giving money to the stewardesses?

 

 

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27 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Interesting..

Can you ask McNally about his experience with the stairs..  (not sure if the plane was a 727-100 or 200, the airstair controls differ slightly)

Opening them.. did they drop, how much.. there are two processes. Push the lever and they gravity drop, push the lever and the button they get hydraulic assist.

Were the stairs stable or did they fluctuate move with his weight.. 

(Of course the plane speed was much higher than for Cooper)

and about giving money to the stewardesses?

 

 

Me: Did the stairs go down all the way like with hydraulic assist or did it just go down a little bit as you went onto them and your weight lowered the stairs?

Mac: My weight lowered them just 1 foot. Airflow was strong at 300mph. 

Me: So they were not all the way down when you were hanging there?

Mac: NO!!! Coulda gone down 2-3 feet. Maybe more, not sure. I was very close to the third engine directly above me. Very LOUD. 

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18 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Me: Did the stairs go down all the way like with hydraulic assist or did it just go down a little bit as you went onto them and your weight lowered the stairs?

Mac: My weight lowered them just 1 foot. Airflow was strong at 300mph. 

Me: So they were not all the way down when you were hanging there?

Mac: NO!!! Coulda gone down 2-3 feet. Maybe more, not sure. I was very close to the third engine directly above me. Very LOUD. 

Interesting..  were they stable or fluctuating?

 

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

and about giving money to the stewardesses?

“I got $500 in 1s. $2,000 in 10s. That was in a paper bag and when I saw it I told 4 stewardesses standing near me that this is worthless and not what I ordered. I gave the girls $1,500 tip after they said they'd not turn it in. They lied!! When I hit the ground I had $300 in my pocket.”

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8 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

"Moving like hell"

Also came across this from an article on McNally a while back

St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_1972_06_27_Page_6 (1).jpg

Similar..

For the McCoy hijacking the crew also noticed a pressure change when he jumped...

But the key is whether there were any oscillations before the jump as he was on the stairs. 

For Cooper there were oscillation seen on the gauge culminating in a physical pressure bump aka large oscillation.

This bump/oscillation sequence sequence has been interpreted differently, to move the LZ, IMO, the FBI got it right.

 

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12 hours ago, olemisscub said:

"Moving like hell"

Also came across this from an article on McNally a while back

St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_1972_06_27_Page_6 (1).jpg

Ok, here the FBI 302 from McCoy's hijacking... "change in pressure was felt".. they immediately went back to check and McCoy was gone..

The "hijacker" jumping causes a pressure fluctuation seen as rapid increase in oscillations on the needle of the pressure gauge,, an extreme fluctuation is also felt as a "bump"... Simultaneously, the bump is felt and an oscillation is seen on the gauge. 

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59 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

What to make of this.... This is the first instance I've found where Cossey says something contrary to the facts. Is this the beginning of Cossey's inconsistencies or is this perhaps the person writing the report getting this detail backwards?

 

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I saw that, probably an error by the writer,, Cossey has been consistent..

In another version of that doc that line appears to be crossed out with an initial.

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Dr. Roberts is off the reservation again.. the entire premise of this blog post is false.

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/23277907-d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-the-soderlind-track

The SAGE map was available prior to Dec 2, 1971. It was in the possession of the FBI and forwarded.

So, the FBI and Soderlind had the SAGE map prior to his Dec 4th jump zone analysis.

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This is amazing, for years I have been pointing out that Ulis had the tie manufacture date wrong..

He finally claims he figured it all out as 1964...  no you didn't, we already knew it.

and I have always said the only way this thing gets solved 100% is using new DNA tech..

 

 

Vince Petersen's hair is parted on the wrong side in all three images, the right.. Cooper was the left.

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