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DB Cooper

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9 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

This is precisely it. Just makes the most sense that he would bail closest to where his (probable) original transportation was i.e. near Portland. 

What distinguishes Cooper from other hijackings is his use of psychology and planning. He is a manager type. He even admitted his reason for hijacking was a 'grudge' - which is psychological-political. I think the FBI for whatever reason failed to classify who and what they were dealing with vs other hijackers/hijackings. 

BTW: Cooper does not fit McCoy's psychological life profile/facts at all!

Edited by georger

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5 minutes ago, georger said:

What distinguishes Cooper from other hijackings is his use of psychology and planning. He is a manager type. He even admitted his reason for hijacking was a 'grudge' - which is psychological-political. I think the FBI for whatever reason failed to classify who and what they were dealing with vs other hijackers/hijackings. 

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with you suggesting that they didn't recognize him as different. Their psychological profile on him goes into detail about who they think he was: a manager/executive type, well educated, not a career criminal, perhaps his only crime, likely angry about what was happening in the aerospace industry at the time. 

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4 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Someone on Reddit challenged me on this, so here is a screengrab of one of the comments from a McCoy relative who was claiming RFM was cooper circa Feb 2017.Screenshot_20221213-211507_Gmail.thumb.jpg.78d58995368899c3cbb5fea2a506207d.jpg

run the dna if wasnt already done - duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!   I guess we learn something new everyday - which is actually two words. Every day.  :thumbup:  McCoy is related to the original female in Africa that founded Homo Sapiens - that much is true - every day. ^b^

Did Australopithecus smoke ?  Or drink ?  Or play with the Cooper case?    

20221215T222832_12968146.ts.jpg

Edited by georger

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This might be Spreckel.

Mitchell's name doesn't seem to work unless his middle name is spelled out and I am not sure what it is..

It is the only name with 24 letters/spaces that seems to fit.

Significant if it is because it would corroborate Mitchell's "turkey neck" description.

Is this Mitchell or Speckel...

Can anybody make Mitchell's name fit..

spreckelwitness.jpg.f915a98554943b0112e055fd38fe7c18.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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42 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

This might be Spreckel.

Mitchell's name doesn't seem to work unless his middle name is spelled out and I am not sure what it is..

It is the only name with 24 letters/spaces that seems to fit.

Significant if it is because it would corroborate Mitchell's "turkey neck" description.

It this Mitchell or Speckel...

Can anybody make Mitchell's name fit..

 

I can't make Bill's name work. Spreckel is the only witness I can make fit and it fits perfectly. My only issue  would be that this is coming from the Portland office, but Spreckel lived on Vashon Island. Who knows, maybe he was working out of Portland at the time or something. Regardless, Spreckel is the only name that works. 

 

spreck11.jpg

Edited by olemisscub

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Eric Ulis & Mark Meltzer -"Parachuting From An Airliner" Panel -11/18/22

Still using Cossey's incorrect description of the chute Cooper used.. 

Hayden's chutes were the same except the one Cooper used was 3 years newer..

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Eric Ulis & Mark Meltzer -"Parachuting From An Airliner" Panel -11/18/22

Still using Cossey's incorrect description of the chute Cooper used.. 

Hayden's chutes were the same except the one Cooper used was 3 years newer..

 

Since we got back from CooperCon I've sent Mark the 302's describing the chutes, particularly the one from 11/25/71 where Hayden's name is redacted. My money is on that one being the most accurate description we have since it was given by Hayden mere hours after he handed them over. 

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Robert H. Edwards's Blog: Great 20th century mysteries

December 15, 2022

D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: piano tuners in Chicago

Applying the correct 'Fermi filter' to the Cooper case. Too late now. Starts with the assumption that Cooper belonged to some class of parachute users or had parachute/paratrooper training. 

'If therefore, we could identify six Caucasian men with parachuting experience, who in 1971 were aged 40 to 49 and were 5’10” to 6’0” tall, and who had demonstrably been in Portland, Oregon, on November 24, 1971: five of them would have been the natural products of Fermi’s filter, and the sixth would be the hijacker of Flight 305.'

Another form on the filter might stipulate that by 1975 Cooper was in need of Social Services or Vocational Rehab Services, due to some past injury or occupational illness related to heavy element exposure, and long term illness/unemployment. Due to an injury in Nov of 1971 ?  Cooper is now seeking services, his money gone, and is now on the rolls in some State, and goes through some Voc Rehab facility, perhaps the Oakdale Voc Rehab facility in the Midwest ? His vita is in someone's files .... but missed by the FBI because that was not in the filter. 

As Fermi and Oppenheimer always said, 'the key is in devising the right filter'.  [Argonne Ntl Labs/ Univ of Chicago, summer 1960. Its in Fermi's thick folio of class notes]. 

If Cooper is missed at first, try and intercept him in the future ?  Parachuting may only have been incidental to the real DB Cooper's life. A focus on parachuting may be blinding everyone!

J. Robert Oppenheimer.png

Edited by georger

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Eric Ulis & Mark Meltzer -"Parachuting From An Airliner" Panel -11/18/22

Still using Cossey's incorrect description of the chute Cooper used.. 

Hayden's chutes were the same except the one Cooper used was 3 years newer..

 

 

PHOOEY!  Ulis and 377 could care less!  Its the cult drama and stage show that matters! Get used to it. Its the Lyle Christian/Blevins Effect.

Edited by georger

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On 12/14/2022 at 7:19 AM, FLYJACK said:

So, that got me thinking,, Cooper asked for front and back chutes, this terminology goes back to WW2. But, WW2 used static lines, except aircrews.. 

What would he have expected to get.. or technically.. what was he actually requesting.. and what does that indicate about Cooper.

Two front reserves and two mains?? 

 

That's what it sounds like to me. He asks for two backs and two fronts, that sounds like mains and reserves, two complete rigs. I think the thought is that if he asks for multiple chutes, then they might be less likely to give him sabotaged ones for fear he might make someone else jump with him. (His comment to Tina, 'You'll like where we are going'... ??)

His terminology... He might not know the proper terms? He might know the proper terms, but he's trying to simplify it? He might know the proper terms, but he's trying to hide that fact? You've mentioned about Braeden, that he was a badass and Cooper wasn't. I'm not advocating for Braeden, just speculating, but if Cooper was a CIA badass, he might well make efforts to obscure that fact. If all the witnesses were saying that they thought he was a CIA badass, that would certainly send the FBI in specific directions looking for suspects.

Military gear... Yes, most military gear would have been set up for static line, which he wouldn't want, or bailout rigs, which he also wouldn't want or why would he ask for front reserves? R99 says that there was some military HALO (freefall) jumping in those days, but that would have been a small minority of gear the military would have available.

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On 12/14/2022 at 6:56 AM, FLYJACK said:

In this article this is labeled as the mailbag McNally received the money in.. but it looks like a front harness.. and the image is labelled parachute.

https://www.metrotimes.com/news/the-final-flight-of-martin-mcnally-2483257?storyPage=3

parachute_001.jpg.d6d8b0078e5cd8882a8c8139bdb8ba82.jpg

I liked when those other two jumpers weighed in recently. They were around in Cooper's day, and by their profiles at least one of them was a rigger. I started jumping in '79. I went through my student training on that older type of 'gutter gear', back mains and front reserves, but quickly graduated to more modern piggyback gear, with both main and reserve on the back. And I'm not a rigger, because I've never been interested in that job. So I know generally how that gear was set up and how it works, but I don't know the finer details of specific gear of that era.

That thing pictured certainly appears to be parachute container materials. Obviously there is no canopy there. It kind of looks to be the right size for a front reserve container, but if there's more folded behind what can be seen it might be a back container. Those two metal snaps are exactly the type that hook a front reserve on to the D-rings on a harness, but they could also be leg strap attachments on a back container. That pocket on the lower left looks like it might be holding a packing card. But that pocket should be on the outside of the container, so as to be accessible on a packed rig. But that looks more like the inside of the container, and that those clips seem to be attached to the other side is consistent with that. But if that was the inside, I would expect to see the risers there, and I don't. I also don't see any of the grommets, cones, or loops that would be the pack closures. The configuration of the straps at the bottom, and that the top right seems to show some kind of loop is more consistent with a back. I could be wrong, but I'm not familiar with any typical front mount container that had it's own integrated harness. I think there was a type of aircrew bailout rig where the crewman wore a harness that had no container on it, but it had the D-rings. I think the idea was that they already had the harness on, so they wouldn't have to fumble with that in an emergency bailout situation, but they wouldn't have to be wearing the whole rig, which would be bulky and cumbersome in tight spaces. There would be the front reserve containers stored somewhere, so if they had to bail all they would have to do would be grab the container and snap it on to the front of their harness.

I dunno. That certainly appears to be a container of some sort, but I can't tell exactly what type. I made some edits, because I was trying to look at it as a front, because supposedly that's what McNally had? But the more I look at it it looks more like a back. I'd need to see it held up or the other side.

Edited by dudeman17

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On 12/7/2022 at 8:51 AM, olemisscub said:

Here is Cossey interviewed the next day for the paper:

 

nextdaycos.jpg

 

This is interesting. For all the idea of Cossey being mistaken about this and lying about that, this article would seem to indicate that Cossey knew the very next day that the chutes given to Cooper were not his, but the bailout rigs obtained from the local flight service.

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Dudeman, just a quick follow up to your above thoughts.

With respect to pilot bailout rigs, does this mean that only a pilot or the member of an air crew would have had experience with this type of parachute ?  Is there anything unique or tricky about putting on or using one of these as compared to a different type of chute ?  For example, if your only experience was as a paratrooper/static line jumper, would you be able to look at this and put it on with ease ? If you were preparing for this hijacking at one of these sky diving facilities like Lake Elsinore etc, would you have ever been presented with this type of chute ?

Tina says that he seemed to have put it on without any issue, like he had done it or seen it before.  He also rejected the instructions -- so can we read anything into this ?  Or is a parachute just a parachute, self explanatory and no big deal to put it on D-Rings not withstanding?  

Also, can we deduce that he was expecting a rig with D-Rings, otherwise he wouldn't have asked for "front' reserves. So if he had military experience, what type of rig would he have expected ? (I presume that the static line chutes had D-Rings correct ?)  Thanks !

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7 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

This is interesting. For all the idea of Cossey being mistaken about this and lying about that, this article would seem to indicate that Cossey knew the very next day that the chutes given to Cooper were not his, but the bailout rigs obtained from the local flight service.

I take that as the person writing the article knew about it more so that Cossey since Renton  Aviation isn't really part of his quote.

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1 hour ago, JAGdb said:

Dudeman, just a quick follow up to your above thoughts.

With respect to pilot bailout rigs, does this mean that only a pilot or the member of an air crew would have had experience with this type of parachute ?  Is there anything unique or tricky about putting on or using one of these as compared to a different type of chute ?  For example, if your only experience was as a paratrooper/static line jumper, would you be able to look at this and put it on with ease ? If you were preparing for this hijacking at one of these sky diving facilities like Lake Elsinore etc, would you have ever been presented with this type of chute ?

Tina says that he seemed to have put it on without any issue, like he had done it or seen it before.  He also rejected the instructions -- so can we read anything into this ?  Or is a parachute just a parachute, self explanatory and no big deal to put it on D-Rings not withstanding?  

Also, can we deduce that he was expecting a rig with D-Rings, otherwise he wouldn't have asked for "front' reserves. So if he had military experience, what type of rig would he have expected ? (I presume that the static line chutes had D-Rings correct ?)  Thanks !

I found in my research that aircrew's used either front or back bailout rigs and that terminology was used from WW2 on.. they didn't seem to use both..  this suggests Cooper may have expected 4 independent rigs with harnesses, not just two sets. McNalley got and used a front chute with a harness.

For something like a C-47, they would sit in a rack and get put on quickly for an emergency bailout.. 

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8 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

This is interesting. For all the idea of Cossey being mistaken about this and lying about that, this article would seem to indicate that Cossey knew the very next day that the chutes given to Cooper were not his, but the bailout rigs obtained from the local flight service.

Cossey would have known the next day,, but he provided his faulty description of the chute Cooper used the day before.. 

Hard to tell in that article if Cossey is actually acknowledging the source of the chutes or it is the writer.

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10 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

That's what it sounds like to me. He asks for two backs and two fronts, that sounds like mains and reserves, two complete rigs. I think the thought is that if he asks for multiple chutes, then they might be less likely to give him sabotaged ones for fear he might make someone else jump with him. (His comment to Tina, 'You'll like where we are going'... ??)

His terminology... He might not know the proper terms? He might know the proper terms, but he's trying to simplify it? He might know the proper terms, but he's trying to hide that fact? You've mentioned about Braeden, that he was a badass and Cooper wasn't. I'm not advocating for Braeden, just speculating, but if Cooper was a CIA badass, he might well make efforts to obscure that fact. If all the witnesses were saying that they thought he was a CIA badass, that would certainly send the FBI in specific directions looking for suspects.

Military gear... Yes, most military gear would have been set up for static line, which he wouldn't want, or bailout rigs, which he also wouldn't want or why would he ask for front reserves? R99 says that there was some military HALO (freefall) jumping in those days, but that would have been a small minority of gear the military would have available.

Cooper was expecting military gear from McChord.. McChord was initially contacted but apparently couldn't get authorization.. So they contacted Cossey and Hayden.

McChord would have had static rigs and bailout rigs only?? If so, he expected bailout rigs.

His parachute demand was important, I can't see somebody obfuscating terminology and taking the risk of getting the wrong equipment.

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14 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Cooper was expecting military gear from McChord.. McChord was initially contacted but apparently couldn't get authorization.. So they contacted Cossey and Hayden.

McChord would have had static rigs and bailout rigs only?? If so, he expected bailout rigs.

His parachute demand was important, I can't see somebody obfuscating terminology and taking the risk of getting the wrong equipment.

Couldn't get authorization?  Very hard to believe that they couldn't get authorization, in my humble opinion.

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14 minutes ago, haggarknew said:

Couldn't get authorization?  Very hard to believe that they couldn't get authorization, in my humble opinion.

The reason given was that since it was thanksgiving eve they couldn't get the authorization from the right people in time.. that may have just been an excuse but they also contacted Cossey and Hayden..  Remember, they only had a few hours to secure the chutes..

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